Ryan Carlson

I believe event atmosphere is important because it increases the meaningfulness of the race. My favorite race is the Nevada City Cycling Classic. There, riders race for glory alone, which is bolstered by an incredible event atmosphere, among other things. Its not the size of this event, but that fact that everything about it makes racers feel like they walk on water. Spectators are somehow made to believe the racers are superstars! The race is located hours outside population centers. It has scheduling conflicts with other races. The course is so selective half the field is pulled. Its always super hot and on a holiday. My point is that travel, schedule, course type, category break-downs and prize money are all secondary concerns. The biggest factor is how highly the event is regarded by our peers and the public. Spectators are critical. Field size helps. Unique, fun, fast or difficult courses help. Podiums help. Photos help. Race reports help. Announcers help. Music helps. Call-ups help. Downtowns help. Beer and food helps. Attracting big names helps. The Nevada City CC has been my personal championship in years past and at times motivated me all year. I have to say that the Portland Twilight Criterium last week captured that feeling to a degree. If some people think that the OBRA criteriums were less than championship quality, perhaps it was because the real championshipthe race for glory in the eyes of the public and our peers--took place the night before? Thanks.

Don Joling

Maybe it's the Alzheimer's setting in in my Masters brain, but seems I remember in the mid 90's that Championships were really high on racers goals- win and off to Nationals with ya. Probably the fact that there were fewer races on the calendar over the entire season didn't hurt.
But at that time, guys (gals) would come from out of state too. Willet, Dahlke, Kenny (HGH) Williams and others from Sea-town would be toeing the line with us. I've never promoted a race, and a big shout out to y'all that do, but perhaps it's a combination of things; Location (Trout Lake turn out seemed low which was too bad 'cause it was a bitchin course), timing on the calendar, and perhaps too many options for categories. Having 100+ in the field makes for exciting RR champs IMHO.
But again, what do I know. I'm old.

Mike Murray

When I have looked at attendance vs. prize list in the past there has been a
nonsense correlation. It is probably worth another look but I am betting
that it hasn't changed if looked at statistically. Makes sense. Most of
the participants will not be going home with prizes. I think that there is a
bigger correlation between attendance and how much "event" atmosphere is at
the race. If it is just a bunch of people that meet, ride around a road and
then go home, that is lame. Not so many people show up. Add a beer garden,
food, music, etc. and a lot more people will show and stay for a while.
Race organizers would be using their limited organizational energy better if
they put it towards event production as opposed to prize list generation.

Mike Murray

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Leia Tyrrell
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2012 06:20
To: Phil Hubbard
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

I think it is interesting nobody has mentioned the correlation between the
attendance to the races and prizes. When the championship crit was in
Albany, there were very decent prizes, so people showed up. With a long
drive for most to Bend and then a lack of prizes, the race is not as worth
it to as many, regardless of being a championship race. An example of a
champs race this year that had great prizes was road race champs. The
turnout was huge. Just my thoughts on this subject.

Cheers

Leia

On Thursday, August 16, 2012, Phil Hubbard wrote:
> Every year I look forward to the beginning of July for the same reason:
OBRA Track Championships. Every year I click on that link to get to the race
flyer and hope against hope to find that they will be hosted in a new venue.
Every year I'm disappointed to find out that the races will again be in the
same place.
>
> Thanks, Phil
>

Leia Tyrrell

I think it is interesting nobody has mentioned the correlation between the
attendance to the races and prizes. When the championship crit was in
Albany, there were very decent prizes, so people showed up. With a long
drive for most to Bend and then a lack of prizes, the race is not as worth
it to as many, regardless of being a championship race. An example of a
champs race this year that had great prizes was road race champs. The
turnout was huge. Just my thoughts on this subject.

Cheers

Leia

On Thursday, August 16, 2012, Phil Hubbard wrote:
> Every year I look forward to the beginning of July for the same reason:
OBRA Track Championships. Every year I click on that link to get to the
race flyer and hope against hope to find that they will be hosted in a new
venue. Every year I'm disappointed to find out that the races will again be
in the same place.
>
> Thanks, Phil
>

Phil Hubbard

Every year I look forward to the beginning of July for the same reason:
OBRA Track Championships. Every year I click on that link to get to the
race flyer and hope against hope to find that they will be hosted in a new
venue. Every year I'm disappointed to find out that the races will again be
in the same place.

Thanks, Phil

Damian S.

I haven't read all of these posts and I may be saying things that have already been said, but:

First, Matt works pretty damn hard promoting events in our area, and even if there are complaints, it's never an easy job. If it wasn't for his efforts, we would have very little non championship (usac) events here. I should know, I USED to put on events and threw in the towel years ago.

People, for the most part, do NOT travel out of the greater PDX area to race bikes, no matter what event it is. Bend has suffered from this with every event that happens here (maybe cross crusade and cx nationals are exceptions). Look at our mtb events from the years. I don't know if the great Erik Tonkin has ever even raced here and he's one of the baddest ass mo'fos in Oregon racing, ever. Did you know that our mtb events have like 90% singletrack? Even Cascade has a hard time drawing in Oregon riders in a lot of the categories and it's the longest running stage race in America!

I'm actually pretty impressed that the Bend races were within 100 people of the Gresham days.

If you think it was a city championship, look at the names in the fields. They're all pretty deserving of a victory. 9 of the 30+ senior men were from Bend and if you look at Conor's results this year, you'll see that he is not slow. He soloed the cat 2 Cascade crit last year and I think he was top 10 in the U23 road race and tt this year at nats (I may be totally full of shit).

Just because you add more people to a field, it doesn't make it a better race.

I'm not sure what people would call successful attendance right now, but have any of these mid/late summer crits had that many people?

Lets face it, if it's not a weekday PDX area event in the Summer, none of the races draw the same number of people as a road race in March.

Damn, we're lucky to have so many events to choose from.

Damian

P.S. Did Luke out sprint Skenzick and slap his ass for the salute in the 30+ win?

________________________________
From: Jamie Mikami
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:48 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

Issues for me with this years OBRA Crit:

1) The Portland Twighlight crit was the night before and that was a much bigger draw and made it hard to even think about going to Bend the next day.

2) The OBRA TT champs were in a 3rd city with the Short Track champs (big group) that same weekend in another direction as well. I love having this problem in Oregon, but that causes a huge issue if you want to have big attendance at a Championship event. Basically we had 4 top events in 4 different cities in 3 days.

3) Masters 30+ seems to be getting smaller, they don't even have a Maters 30-34 Nationals anymore, and they had a Cat 3 championship as well. Normally it is just a Cat 1/2/3 which would have likely pushed more than a few of those 3s to the 30+ race.

4) I personally am on a limited travel budget this year, but I still disagree that it should be in the Portland area every year. If 70% ride in portland make it in portland 7 years out of 10, Eugene one year, Salem the next and Bend the other or something like that ... although I always loved the gresham course and prefer something like that for me, it is a bit boring to never change things up.

I have no idea what other issues Mike was talking about, and as much as I prefer Portland races, I think we need to ensure we don't move every race to portland because of better attendance. And just because someone from Bend won the race doesn't make it a city race to me, that is just a natural occurance for any championship. I saw plenty of regular portland races in the results, they just didn't win .. except of course the awesome Mr Curl!

So if you are going to have a championship race outside of Portland, please do it when there is another race in your city that same weekend and not 3 other big races all around the state. Scheduling is hard, but it is not just hard on promoters, it is also hard on the races. Giving the majority of the state a reason to come to your city is important. I have traveled to Washington and Idaho State championships in the past, not because I wanted to do them, but because they were sharing a weekend with a regional race I did want to do. So I used those races for warmups/warmdowns from the bigger race and helped kick up the attendance of those races. I might as well race two days since I am going to need to spend the night anyways.

Just another 2 cents on a topic that seems well overdone today.

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kl_graham@comcast.net

Joe -

It's really easy to say it can be done - but a lot of the time - as A PROMOTER you have to find other means to put a race together. Why you might ask - because you always DONT get the support from teams/volunteers/etc.

I wish it was that easy Joe - but like Seth, I speak from the INSIDE looking OUT!

Actions talk and Bullshit runs a marathon! - promote a race next year and let us ALL know how easy it is!

Kenny Graham
OBRA TTT Promoter

ps. I'm going to ATTEMPT to promote 2 more races next year on top of the OBRA TTT, and I started the work for that 2 months ago!

From: joec@aracnet.com
To: "Seth May"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:42:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

Seth,

I call 'Bullshit!'. It can be done, like everything else is done, with
the
help of teams/volunteers/etc. Someone just needs to put a proposal
together
and put it out there.

Joe

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:45:06 -0700, "Seth May"
wrote:
> It's easy to say "OBRA Should", but if you actually look at OBRA, it's made
> up of like 2 FTE. OBRA works because a largely independent group of
> officials coordinates to work with a largely independent group of promoters
> to put on events for random cyclists. Those 2 FTE are basically the glue
> that help pull everything together.
>
> It's simply not possible for "OBRA" to run a championship.
>
> Seth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:04 AM
> To: Matt Plummer; mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
> Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our crit
> race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and ours is
> easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun time....But with
> that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said for years that
> State Championships should mean alot more than they do and be special race
> days for most of us and something we should all look forward to .....they
> just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to the amount of racing
> that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why the numbers are down
> at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when
> there is numerous races going on.....This should be controlled
> somehow....and the places where most of these races take place, Bend,,CRIT,
> Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships alot
> of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every day
> of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer and through
> early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not knocking Bend at
> all, its just facts....I also feel for the people that live in smaller areas
> of the state having to travel to alot of races but it goes back to the facts
> are a good majority of the people in OBRA that race probably live within a
> 10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in general I
> think that would be true....All state championships should be in this area
> in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on this part of it, but
> why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave promoters out of it....??? not
> sure that makes sense at all but it is something people on our team have
> talked about.....But I guess in short I think there is way to may races on
> the schedule and people just don't look forward to a few big races a year
> anymore, they race so much now that when state races roll around and there 2
> or 3 or ??? hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or
> somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking anyone
> here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these
> races mean something again.....have a great day....
> From: "Matt Plummer"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
>
>> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>>
>>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
>>> Champs
>>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>>
>>> Mike Murray
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>>
>>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends
>>> (from the same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race.
>>> Does that race really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter;
>>> he can't make people drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA
>>> needs to reconsider its championships policy. These races used to
>>> mean a lot. I remember when the District Crit race would get many
>>> hundreds of riders and was ferociously contested.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

joec@aracnet.com

Seth,

I call 'Bullshit!'. It can be done, like everything else is done, with
the
help of teams/volunteers/etc. Someone just needs to put a proposal
together
and put it out there.

Joe

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:45:06 -0700, "Seth May"
wrote:
> It's easy to say "OBRA Should", but if you actually look at OBRA, it's made
> up of like 2 FTE. OBRA works because a largely independent group of
> officials coordinates to work with a largely independent group of promoters
> to put on events for random cyclists. Those 2 FTE are basically the glue
> that help pull everything together.
>
> It's simply not possible for "OBRA" to run a championship.
>
> Seth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:04 AM
> To: Matt Plummer; mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
> Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our crit
> race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and ours is
> easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun time....But with
> that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said for years that
> State Championships should mean alot more than they do and be special race
> days for most of us and something we should all look forward to .....they
> just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to the amount of racing
> that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why the numbers are down
> at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when
> there is numerous races going on.....This should be controlled
> somehow....and the places where most of these races take place, Bend,,CRIT,
> Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships alot
> of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every day
> of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer and through
> early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not knocking Bend at
> all, its just facts....I also feel for the people that live in smaller areas
> of the state having to travel to alot of races but it goes back to the facts
> are a good majority of the people in OBRA that race probably live within a
> 10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in general I
> think that would be true....All state championships should be in this area
> in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on this part of it, but
> why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave promoters out of it....??? not
> sure that makes sense at all but it is something people on our team have
> talked about.....But I guess in short I think there is way to may races on
> the schedule and people just don't look forward to a few big races a year
> anymore, they race so much now that when state races roll around and there 2
> or 3 or ??? hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or
> somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking anyone
> here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these
> races mean something again.....have a great day....
> From: "Matt Plummer"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
>
>> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>>
>>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
>>> Champs
>>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>>
>>> Mike Murray
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>>
>>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends
>>> (from the same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race.
>>> Does that race really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter;
>>> he can't make people drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA
>>> needs to reconsider its championships policy. These races used to
>>> mean a lot. I remember when the District Crit race would get many
>>> hundreds of riders and was ferociously contested.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Seth May

You mean exactly what happened now. Someone takes charge: a promoter, agreed upon by OBRA central. They are assigned officials. They gather volunteers to help run it.

There is no difference.

-----Original Message-----
From: joec@aracnet.com [mailto:joec@aracnet.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 12:43 PM
To: Seth May
Cc: Jeff Tedder; Matt Plummer; mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

Seth,

I call 'Bullshit!'. It can be done, like everything else is done, with the help of teams/volunteers/etc. Someone just needs to put a proposal together and put it out there.

Joe

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 11:45:06 -0700, "Seth May"
wrote:
> It's easy to say "OBRA Should", but if you actually look at OBRA, it's
> made up of like 2 FTE. OBRA works because a largely independent group
> of officials coordinates to work with a largely independent group of
> promoters to put on events for random cyclists. Those 2 FTE are
> basically the glue that help pull everything together.
>
> It's simply not possible for "OBRA" to run a championship.
>
> Seth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:04 AM
> To: Matt Plummer; mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
> Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started
> our crit race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a
> race and ours is easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a
> fun time....But with that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I
> have said for years that State Championships should mean alot more
> than they do and be special race days for most of us and something we
> should all look forward to .....they just are not, its kinda sad and I
> contribute that to the amount of racing that is avail...way to much in
> my opinion, that's why the numbers are down at alot of the races, it's
> spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when there is numerous
> races going on.....This should be controlled somehow....and the places
> where most of these races take place, Bend,,CRIT, Southern
> Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships alot of
> the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every
> day of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer
> and through early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not
> knocking Bend at all, its just facts....I also feel for the people
> that live in smaller areas of the state having to travel to alot of
> races but it goes back to the facts are a good majority of the people
> in OBRA that race probably live within a
> 10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in
> general I think that would be true....All state championships should
> be in this area in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on
> this part of it, but why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave
> promoters out of it....??? not sure that makes sense at all but it is
> something people on our team have talked about.....But I guess in
> short I think there is way to may races on the schedule and people
> just don't look forward to a few big races a year anymore, they race
> so much now that when state races roll around and there 2 or 3 or ???
> hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or
> somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking
> anyone here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these races mean something again.....have a great day....
> From: "Matt Plummer"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
>
>> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>>
>>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the
>>> Crit Champs
>>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>>
>>> Mike Murray
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>>
>>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends
>>> (from the same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race.
>>> Does that race really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter;
>>> he can't make people drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA
>>> needs to reconsider its championships policy. These races used to
>>> mean a lot. I remember when the District Crit race would get many
>>> hundreds of riders and was ferociously contested.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jamie Mikami

Issues for me with this years OBRA Crit:

1) The Portland Twighlight crit was the night before and that was a much
bigger draw and made it hard to even think about going to Bend the next day.

2) The OBRA TT champs were in a 3rd city with the Short Track champs (big
group) that same weekend in another direction as well. I love having this
problem in Oregon, but that causes a huge issue if you want to have big
attendance at a Championship event. Basically we had 4 top events in 4
different cities in 3 days.

3) Masters 30+ seems to be getting smaller, they don't even have a Maters
30-34 Nationals anymore, and they had a Cat 3 championship as well.
Normally it is just a Cat 1/2/3 which would have likely pushed more than a
few of those 3s to the 30+ race.

4) I personally am on a limited travel budget this year, but I still
disagree that it should be in the Portland area every year. If 70% ride in
portland make it in portland 7 years out of 10, Eugene one year, Salem the
next and Bend the other or something like that ... although I always loved
the gresham course and prefer something like that for me, it is a bit boring
to never change things up.

I have no idea what other issues Mike was talking about, and as much as I
prefer Portland races, I think we need to ensure we don't move every race to
portland because of better attendance. And just because someone from Bend
won the race doesn't make it a city race to me, that is just a natural
occurance for any championship. I saw plenty of regular portland races in
the results, they just didn't win .. except of course the awesome Mr Curl!

So if you are going to have a championship race outside of Portland, please
do it when there is another race in your city that same weekend and not 3
other big races all around the state. Scheduling is hard, but it is not
just hard on promoters, it is also hard on the races. Giving the majority
of the state a reason to come to your city is important. I have traveled to
Washington and Idaho State championships in the past, not because I wanted
to do them, but because they were sharing a weekend with a regional race I
did want to do. So I used those races for warmups/warmdowns from the bigger
race and helped kick up the attendance of those races. I might as well
race two days since I am going to need to spend the night anyways.

Just another 2 cents on a topic that seems well overdone today.

Jeff Tedder

It was not easy to say anything, nor did I say they SHOULD, read my email
again, I basically asked a question and even said I do not know if its even
possible...pretty simple to just throw out ideas from alot of people, maybe
someone will have some thoughts that will help....

om: "Seth May"
To: "'Jeff Tedder'" ; "'Matt Plummer'"
;
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

> It's easy to say "OBRA Should", but if you actually look at OBRA, it's
> made
> up of like 2 FTE. OBRA works because a largely independent group of
> officials coordinates to work with a largely independent group of
> promoters
> to put on events for random cyclists. Those 2 FTE are basically the glue
> that help pull everything together.
>
> It's simply not possible for "OBRA" to run a championship.
>
> Seth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:04 AM
> To: Matt Plummer; mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
> Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our
> crit
> race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and ours
> is
> easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun time....But with
> that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said for years that
> State Championships should mean alot more than they do and be special race
> days for most of us and something we should all look forward to .....they
> just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to the amount of racing
> that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why the numbers are down
> at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when
> there is numerous races going on.....This should be controlled
> somehow....and the places where most of these races take place,
> Bend,,CRIT,
> Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships
> alot
> of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every
> day
> of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer and
> through
> early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not knocking Bend at
> all, its just facts....I also feel for the people that live in smaller
> areas
> of the state having to travel to alot of races but it goes back to the
> facts
> are a good majority of the people in OBRA that race probably live within a
> 10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in general I
> think that would be true....All state championships should be in this area
> in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on this part of it, but
> why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave promoters out of it....???
> not
> sure that makes sense at all but it is something people on our team have
> talked about.....But I guess in short I think there is way to may races on
> the schedule and people just don't look forward to a few big races a year
> anymore, they race so much now that when state races roll around and there
> 2
> or 3 or ??? hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or
> somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking anyone
> here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these
> races mean something again.....have a great day....
> From: "Matt Plummer"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
>
>> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>>
>>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
>>> Champs
>>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>>
>>> Mike Murray
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
>>> On Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>>
>>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends
>>> (from the same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race.
>>> Does that race really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter;
>>> he can't make people drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA
>>> needs to reconsider its championships policy. These races used to
>>> mean a lot. I remember when the District Crit race would get many
>>> hundreds of riders and was ferociously contested.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Luke DeMoe

If I was single, I would take OBRA out to a nice restaurant, have a few
drinks, and see if I could get lucky! I love what you people do! I could
not have the fun I do without all of you!
On Aug 16, 2012 12:04 PM, "Candi Murray" wrote:

> While we are acknowledging people I would like to second the thank you to
> all the officials who have worked so hard all year. Many work the races
> after working their real jobs all day/week.
> I talked with Terri Camp last night and she said she went 90 straight days
> with no days off. I think it is a terrific group of people who help make
> the
> magic happen.
> Candi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Seth May
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:45 AM
> To: 'Jeff Tedder'; 'Matt Plummer'; mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
> It's easy to say "OBRA Should", but if you actually look at OBRA, it's made
> up of like 2 FTE. OBRA works because a largely independent group of
> officials coordinates to work with a largely independent group of promoters
> to put on events for random cyclists. Those 2 FTE are basically the glue
> that help pull everything together.
>
> It's simply not possible for "OBRA" to run a championship.
>
> Seth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:04 AM
> To: Matt Plummer; mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
> Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our
> crit
> race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and ours is
> easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun time....But with
> that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said for years that
> State Championships should mean alot more than they do and be special race
> days for most of us and something we should all look forward to .....they
> just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to the amount of racing
> that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why the numbers are down
> at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when
> there is numerous races going on.....This should be controlled
> somehow....and the places where most of these races take place, Bend,,CRIT,
> Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships alot
> of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every
> day
> of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer and through
> early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not knocking Bend at
> all, its just facts....I also feel for the people that live in smaller
> areas
> of the state having to travel to alot of races but it goes back to the
> facts
> are a good majority of the people in OBRA that race probably live within a
> 10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in general I
> think that would be true....All state championships should be in this area
> in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on this part of it, but
> why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave promoters out of it....???
> not
> sure that makes sense at all but it is something people on our team have
> talked about.....But I guess in short I think there is way to may races on
> the schedule and people just don't look forward to a few big races a year
> anymore, they race so much now that when state races roll around and there
> 2
> or 3 or ??? hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or
> somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking anyone
> here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these
> races mean something again.....have a great day....
> From: "Matt Plummer"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
>
> > Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
> >
> >> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
> >> Champs
> >> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
> >> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
> >>
> >> Mike Murray
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Steve Scarich
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
> >> To: obra@list.obra.org
> >> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
> >>
> >> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
> >> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends
> >> (from the same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race.
> >> Does that race really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter;
> >> he can't make people drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA
> >> needs to reconsider its championships policy. These races used to
> >> mean a lot. I remember when the District Crit race would get many
> >> hundreds of riders and was ferociously contested.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5203 - Release Date: 08/15/12
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Candi Murray

While we are acknowledging people I would like to second the thank you to
all the officials who have worked so hard all year. Many work the races
after working their real jobs all day/week.
I talked with Terri Camp last night and she said she went 90 straight days
with no days off. I think it is a terrific group of people who help make the
magic happen.
Candi

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Seth May
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:45 AM
To: 'Jeff Tedder'; 'Matt Plummer'; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

It's easy to say "OBRA Should", but if you actually look at OBRA, it's made
up of like 2 FTE. OBRA works because a largely independent group of
officials coordinates to work with a largely independent group of promoters
to put on events for random cyclists. Those 2 FTE are basically the glue
that help pull everything together.

It's simply not possible for "OBRA" to run a championship.

Seth

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:04 AM
To: Matt Plummer; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our crit
race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and ours is
easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun time....But with
that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said for years that
State Championships should mean alot more than they do and be special race
days for most of us and something we should all look forward to .....they
just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to the amount of racing
that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why the numbers are down
at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when
there is numerous races going on.....This should be controlled
somehow....and the places where most of these races take place, Bend,,CRIT,
Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships alot
of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every day
of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer and through
early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not knocking Bend at
all, its just facts....I also feel for the people that live in smaller areas
of the state having to travel to alot of races but it goes back to the facts
are a good majority of the people in OBRA that race probably live within a
10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in general I
think that would be true....All state championships should be in this area
in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on this part of it, but
why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave promoters out of it....??? not
sure that makes sense at all but it is something people on our team have
talked about.....But I guess in short I think there is way to may races on
the schedule and people just don't look forward to a few big races a year
anymore, they race so much now that when state races roll around and there 2
or 3 or ??? hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or
somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking anyone
here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these
races mean something again.....have a great day....
From: "Matt Plummer"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>
> Matt
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
>> Champs
>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>
>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends
>> (from the same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race.
>> Does that race really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter;
>> he can't make people drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA
>> needs to reconsider its championships policy. These races used to
>> mean a lot. I remember when the District Crit race would get many
>> hundreds of riders and was ferociously contested.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5203 - Release Date: 08/15/12

Adrian Richardson

Put your Criterium championship in Portland; have it promoted as, "The
Battle for the fastest legs in Oregon" Promote it like the twilight crit,
and you will have your 100+ riders. You will also have a billion
spectators.

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Seth May wrote:

> It's easy to say "OBRA Should", but if you actually look at OBRA, it's made
> up of like 2 FTE. OBRA works because a largely independent group of
> officials coordinates to work with a largely independent group of promoters
> to put on events for random cyclists. Those 2 FTE are basically the glue
> that help pull everything together.
>
> It's simply not possible for "OBRA" to run a championship.
>
> Seth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:04 AM
> To: Matt Plummer; mike.murray@obra.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
> Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our
> crit
> race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and ours is
> easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun time....But with
> that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said for years that
> State Championships should mean alot more than they do and be special race
> days for most of us and something we should all look forward to .....they
> just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to the amount of racing
> that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why the numbers are down
> at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when
> there is numerous races going on.....This should be controlled
> somehow....and the places where most of these races take place, Bend,,CRIT,
> Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships alot
> of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every
> day
> of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer and through
> early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not knocking Bend at
> all, its just facts....I also feel for the people that live in smaller
> areas
> of the state having to travel to alot of races but it goes back to the
> facts
> are a good majority of the people in OBRA that race probably live within a
> 10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in general I
> think that would be true....All state championships should be in this area
> in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on this part of it, but
> why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave promoters out of it....???
> not
> sure that makes sense at all but it is something people on our team have
> talked about.....But I guess in short I think there is way to may races on
> the schedule and people just don't look forward to a few big races a year
> anymore, they race so much now that when state races roll around and there
> 2
> or 3 or ??? hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or
> somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking anyone
> here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these
> races mean something again.....have a great day....
> From: "Matt Plummer"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
>
> > Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
> >
> > Matt
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
> >
> >> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
> >> Champs
> >> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
> >> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
> >>
> >> Mike Murray
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> >> On Behalf Of Steve Scarich
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
> >> To: obra@list.obra.org
> >> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
> >>
> >> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
> >> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends
> >> (from the same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race.
> >> Does that race really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter;
> >> he can't make people drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA
> >> needs to reconsider its championships policy. These races used to
> >> mean a lot. I remember when the District Crit race would get many
> >> hundreds of riders and was ferociously contested.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Eric

Thank you!

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
Putting on any race is NOT an easy thing!

Seth May

It's easy to say "OBRA Should", but if you actually look at OBRA, it's made
up of like 2 FTE. OBRA works because a largely independent group of
officials coordinates to work with a largely independent group of promoters
to put on events for random cyclists. Those 2 FTE are basically the glue
that help pull everything together.

It's simply not possible for "OBRA" to run a championship.

Seth

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Tedder
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:04 AM
To: Matt Plummer; mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our crit
race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and ours is
easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun time....But with
that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said for years that
State Championships should mean alot more than they do and be special race
days for most of us and something we should all look forward to .....they
just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to the amount of racing
that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why the numbers are down
at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when
there is numerous races going on.....This should be controlled
somehow....and the places where most of these races take place, Bend,,CRIT,
Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships alot
of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every day
of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer and through
early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not knocking Bend at
all, its just facts....I also feel for the people that live in smaller areas
of the state having to travel to alot of races but it goes back to the facts
are a good majority of the people in OBRA that race probably live within a
10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in general I
think that would be true....All state championships should be in this area
in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on this part of it, but
why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave promoters out of it....??? not
sure that makes sense at all but it is something people on our team have
talked about.....But I guess in short I think there is way to may races on
the schedule and people just don't look forward to a few big races a year
anymore, they race so much now that when state races roll around and there 2
or 3 or ??? hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or
somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking anyone
here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these
races mean something again.....have a great day....
From: "Matt Plummer"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>
> Matt
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
>> Champs
>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
>> On Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>
>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends
>> (from the same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race.
>> Does that race really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter;
>> he can't make people drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA
>> needs to reconsider its championships policy. These races used to
>> mean a lot. I remember when the District Crit race would get many
>> hundreds of riders and was ferociously contested.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jeff Tedder

It's not really racing when you show up to race with 2 or 3 people in Cat.....why not just go for a hard training ride with a group of your buddies and team mates on a few weekends a month, alot more fun.....and makes racing more fun as well when you have abit bigger fields than single digits....just sayin
----- Original Message -----
From: Melissa Boyd
To: Jeff Tedder
Cc: Matt Plummer ; mike.murray@obra.org ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

Hey - more races, more bling, more biking happiness. What's not to love??

Keep those races coming, OBRA!

Melissa
"Must Be Present To Win"

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Jeff Tedder wrote:

Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our crit race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and ours is easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun time....But with that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said for years that State Championships should mean alot more than they do and be special race days for most of us and something we should all look forward to .....they just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to the amount of racing that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why the numbers are down at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when there is numerous races going on.....This should be controlled somehow....and the places where most of these races take place, Bend,,CRIT, Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships alot of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every day of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer and through early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not knocking Bend at all, its just facts....I also feel for the people that live in smaller areas of the state having to travel to alot of races but it goes back to the facts are a good majority of the people in OBRA that race probably live within a 10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in general I think that would be true....All state championships should be in this area in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on this part of it, but why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave promoters out of it....??? not sure that makes sense at all but it is something people on our team have talked about.....But I guess in short I think there is way to may races on the schedule and people just don't look forward to a few big races a year anymore, they race so much now that when state races roll around and there 2 or 3 or ??? hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking anyone here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these races mean something again.....have a great day....
From: "Matt Plummer"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.

Matt

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:

There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit Champs
this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
definitely looking at changing the championship policy.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Scarich
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends (from the
same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race. Does that race
really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter; he can't make people
drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA needs to reconsider its
championships policy. These races used to mean a lot. I remember when the
District Crit race would get many hundreds of riders and was ferociously
contested.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

rondot@spiritone.com

Putting on any race is NOT an easy thing!

......and will OBRA stay intact or show signs of splintering like the
European Union?
Nice YouTube Thom!
Oh. By the way. I think my male dog can pee higher on that fire hydrant
than your dog! I personally use the port-potty.
Oops. Another blunder. We are all just peddling along on this life path
together right?
So many questions. So little time!
Lets play nice with others. Everyone will get a sticker.
ronnie

-----Original Message-----
From: Thom Schoenborn
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:52 AM
To: Matt Plummer
Cc:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

I believe this neatly summarizes where this thread is about to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJflu7z4QyI

On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:27 AM, Matt Plummer wrote:

> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>
> Matt
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
>> Champs
>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>
>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends (from
>> the
>> same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race. Does that race
>> really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter; he can't make people
>> drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA needs to reconsider its
>> championships policy. These races used to mean a lot. I remember when
>> the
>> District Crit race would get many hundreds of riders and was ferociously
>> contested.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Melissa Boyd

Hey - more races, more bling, more biking happiness. What's not to love??

Keep those races coming, OBRA!

Melissa
*"Must Be Present To Win"*

On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 11:04 AM, Jeff Tedder wrote:

> Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our
> crit race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and
> ours is easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun
> time....But with that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said
> for years that State Championships should mean alot more than they do and
> be special race days for most of us and something we should all look
> forward to .....they just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to
> the amount of racing that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why
> the numbers are down at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on
> alot of weekends when there is numerous races going on.....This should be
> controlled somehow....and the places where most of these races take place,
> Bend,,CRIT, Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city
> championships alot of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can
> race almost every day of the week somewhere close to Portland during the
> early summer and through early fall, why would a race in Bend attract
> people? Not knocking Bend at all, its just facts....I also feel for the
> people that live in smaller areas of the state having to travel to alot of
> races but it goes back to the facts are a good majority of the people in
> OBRA that race probably live within a 10 mile radius of Portland, not sure
> what the numbers are but in general I think that would be true....All state
> championships should be in this area in my opinion, and again I don't know
> the details on this part of it, but why can't OBRA promote all state races,
> leave promoters out of it....??? not sure that makes sense at all but it is
> something people on our team have talked about.....But I guess in short I
> think there is way to may races on the schedule and people just don't look
> forward to a few big races a year anymore, they race so much now that when
> state races roll around and there 2 or 3 or ??? hours away why would they
> go, when they can ride out to PIR or somewhere close in Portland and
> race....Again, I am not knocking anyone here, just some thoughts on how we
> could maybe change things to make these races mean something again.....have
> a great day....
> From: "Matt Plummer"
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
>
>
> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>>
>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
>>> Champs
>>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>>
>>> Mike Murray
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.**obra.org]
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>>
>>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends (from
>>> the
>>> same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race. Does that race
>>> really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter; he can't make people
>>> drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA needs to reconsider its
>>> championships policy. These races used to mean a lot. I remember when
>>> the
>>> District Crit race would get many hundreds of riders and was ferociously
>>> contested.
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/**listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Jeff Tedder

Well I appreciate all the race promoters for sure, since we started our crit
race 2 years ago I know how much work it takes to put on a race and ours is
easy so putting on a road race I can imagine is not a fun time....But with
that said I have my thoughts on this as well, I have said for years that
State Championships should mean alot more than they do and be special race
days for most of us and something we should all look forward to .....they
just are not, its kinda sad and I contribute that to the amount of racing
that is avail...way to much in my opinion, that's why the numbers are down
at alot of the races, it's spread out way to thin on alot of weekends when
there is numerous races going on.....This should be controlled
somehow....and the places where most of these races take place, Bend,,CRIT,
Southern Oregon..XC....etc etc....They end up being city championships alot
of the time.....Why would travel this far when you can race almost every day
of the week somewhere close to Portland during the early summer and through
early fall, why would a race in Bend attract people? Not knocking Bend at
all, its just facts....I also feel for the people that live in smaller areas
of the state having to travel to alot of races but it goes back to the facts
are a good majority of the people in OBRA that race probably live within a
10 mile radius of Portland, not sure what the numbers are but in general I
think that would be true....All state championships should be in this area
in my opinion, and again I don't know the details on this part of it, but
why can't OBRA promote all state races, leave promoters out of it....??? not
sure that makes sense at all but it is something people on our team have
talked about.....But I guess in short I think there is way to may races on
the schedule and people just don't look forward to a few big races a year
anymore, they race so much now that when state races roll around and there 2
or 3 or ??? hours away why would they go, when they can ride out to PIR or
somewhere close in Portland and race....Again, I am not knocking anyone
here, just some thoughts on how we could maybe change things to make these
races mean something again.....have a great day....
From: "Matt Plummer"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>
> Matt
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit
>> Champs
>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>
>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends (from
>> the
>> same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race. Does that race
>> really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter; he can't make people
>> drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA needs to reconsider its
>> championships policy. These races used to mean a lot. I remember when
>> the
>> District Crit race would get many hundreds of riders and was ferociously
>> contested.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Thom Schoenborn

I believe this neatly summarizes where this thread is about to go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJflu7z4QyI

On Aug 16, 2012, at 10:27 AM, Matt Plummer wrote:

> Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.
>
> Matt
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
>
>> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit Champs
>> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
>> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>>
>> Mike Murray
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of Steve Scarich
>> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>>
>> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
>> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends (from the
>> same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race. Does that race
>> really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter; he can't make people
>> drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA needs to reconsider its
>> championships policy. These races used to mean a lot. I remember when the
>> District Crit race would get many hundreds of riders and was ferociously
>> contested.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Matt Plummer

Let's hear the criticisms. Especially from someone that wasn't there.

Matt

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 16, 2012, at 9:43 AM, "Mike Murray" wrote:

> There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit Champs
> this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
> definitely looking at changing the championship policy.
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve Scarich
> Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships
>
> I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
> Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends (from the
> same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race. Does that race
> really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter; he can't make people
> drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA needs to reconsider its
> championships policy. These races used to mean a lot. I remember when the
> District Crit race would get many hundreds of riders and was ferociously
> contested.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

There is much criticism to be levied against the promoter of the Crit Champs
this year and lack of promotion is the least of it. The OBRA board is
definitely looking at changing the championship policy.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Steve Scarich
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2012 09:27
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] OBRA Championships

I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit
Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends (from the
same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race. Does that race
really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter; he can't make people
drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA needs to reconsider its
championships policy. These races used to mean a lot. I remember when the
District Crit race would get many hundreds of riders and was ferociously
contested.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Steve Scarich

I had similar thoughts as many of you, while watching the OBRA Crit Championships last weekend. Especially when three of my friends (from the same team) comprised the entire field of the 30-34 race. Does that race really mean anything? No criticism of the promoter; he can't make people drive over the hill to race. But, I think OBRA needs to reconsider its championships policy. These races used to mean a lot. I remember when the District Crit race would get many hundreds of riders and was ferociously contested.

Julie Wilson

The OBRA Championships are set for August 7th and 8th!

Details are now posted at www.obrachampionships.com. Visit the website for
course routes, schedule and other important race info. Race the Category
Championship on Saturday and stay for the Age Group Championship on Sunday!
This is a spectacular course that has a little bit of everything (except
gravel!). Hope to see you there.

Sincerely,

Julie

Seth May

You can all argue about who and should and shouldn't be allowed to receive a
championship win, but I think it is appropriate to point out how abysmally
these championships have been attended in the past. It's great if you have
an opinion, but back it up with your legs. Promoters go out of their way to
make these events happen, including the championship (no, it's not put on by
OBRA). Within the past couple of years, there have been fields at the
championship that were so small you nearly gained a top 5 placing by showing
up, and I'm not talking about Women's fields only.

Got an opinion, show up to the race.

(BTW, I'm not affiliated with the state championship promoter in any way)