TTT Line Crossers

Lisa_Tim Ehlers

2007-05-13

I apologize to Shane, as I posted back on his post below and said
Shawn...please forgive me Shane on my error.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "obra List"
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TTT Line Crossers

>I found that this year the teams were much better than the teams in the
>past years. There is one set of corners that a great number of cut last
>year. This year when I was on that set of corners I didn't see anyone cut
>them. Coming from a "one time official" point of view, I think photos are
>a great way to have undisputed evidence. As a photographer, I am not there
>to catch people doing wrong, but if Candi needs them for evidence I am more
>than willing to give them to her. That being said I have also given Candi
>photos to solidify results when results for a finish were in question.
>That allowed for more accurate results. So for better or for worse, there
>are several photographers at the races. Don't cheat and you won't get
>disqualified. I think that Candi can tell from the photos what teams were
>deliberate and what teams weren't.


Lisa_Tim Ehlers

2007-05-13

I'll agree with you there Shawn on the photographic side of things. I, like
you or anyone else is not trying to capture the moment someone makes an
infraction and by posting them we are not trying to put a team or rider in a
bad position. If requested I would also be willing to let the officials
see my photos if there was a protest and I might have gotten a photo or more
of it. Photos might also allow better understanding if there were a serious
accident and it was captured. If a photo will help in determining the
proper order of things then that is good for all.

I know I mention that I might go as far as not posting any photo that might
have a violation. I doubt I could do that as I would have to look at every
photo and have every rule in my head or refer to them each time. That will
not happen, I along with the rest of the shot takers are trying to get
photos for people to enjoy and maybe make a few dollars along with it. If
we happen to catch something, it happens and if we/I post it then that is
the way it goes. Overall I only post about 50 -60% of what I shoot, as
photos will be a little out of focus or more, or I am not paying attention
and catch only the rear wheel of the bike, etc.

Even though there may be 2,3 or even five folks shooting at an event I hope
that folks would not be deciding to wait until photos get posted to file a
protest. Yes the photo could be used if there is one in support of the
written protest at the event and I would agree to that. And that photo
might have to be given to the officials later in the day after it gets off
loaded from the camera, but you would have the written protest at the event
to start the process.

I suppose this could really go on and on and on. I am still updating my
site and I have to stand by what I shot and what it shows so that's the way
it happens for now.

Keep up the racing OBRALand.
Tim

----- Original Message -----
From:
To: "obra List"
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TTT Line Crossers

>I found that this year the teams were much better than the teams in the
>past years. There is one set of corners that a great number of cut last
>year. This year when I was on that set of corners I didn't see anyone cut
>them. Coming from a "one time official" point of view, I think photos are
>a great way to have undisputed evidence. As a photographer, I am not there
>to catch people doing wrong, but if Candi needs them for evidence I am more
>than willing to give them to her. That being said I have also given Candi
>photos to solidify results when results for a finish were in question.
>That allowed for more accurate results. So for better or for worse, there
>are several photographers at the races. Don't cheat and you won't get
>disqualified. I think that Candi can tell from the photos what teams were
>deliberate and what teams weren't.
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: "Lisa_Tim Ehlers"
>> Interesting observation mr. kenji! When I post out the rest of my photos
>> you will find some that are crossing the yellow line also. I think to
>> probably get the best line possible without using brakes you will push
>> the
>> yellow line if you can and maybe then some, and some more and maybe so
>> on.
>> If you come into a few of the corners and you are pushing 25-30mph and on
>> the yellow, your momentum will most likely throw you into the oncoming
>> lane
>> on your exit of the corner (unless you slow down prior or brake through
>> the
>> corner). marshals were at the most trafficked areas and were doing their
>> best to stop traffic in both directions as teams came through. Safety I
>> believe is always first and I think this race is pretty safe with its
>> location and traffic (minimal).
>>
>> I have shots from the start line and some of the teams are crossing the
>> yellow there so they can get around the teams that are staging to start
>> in a
>> safe passing distance. I also should have one where there are three
>> teams
>> all shooting down towards corner seven and there is no way to ride three
>> teams in one of those lanes.
>>
>> I do not think it was blatant by any team that was out there, and what
>> were
>> the instructions given to them at the start? Since you have ridden this
>> course before you know how it is laid out so there are a few corners that
>> you will push or go over the yellow and most have a clear line of site
>> for
>> oncoming traffic. Corner 7 which is a hard left is coned so you
>> basically
>> have to go into the oncoming lane on entry and exit of the corner. They
>> also had the marshals at that corner.
>>
>> I don't think any of the results would be much different and I do not
>> think
>> that by us photographers posting our pictures that any possible changes
>> should occur. If that would become the norm then myself as a
>> photographer
>> would have to make sure I post no photo where anyone appears in violation
>> of
>> the rules set in OBRA or any particular rules/instructions given at the
>> start.
>>
>> To answer your question though. I did not witness it to be prevalent
>> through the entire course. There were corners and teams that did cross
>> the
>> yellow, and it happened. I don't believe even those that are in our
>> photos
>> were doing this on every corner or with disregard for their safety or
>> rules.
>> I again would ask what were the instructions at the start? Not pointing
>> fingers at anyone, but it is a race, they are riding hard as a team and
>> trying to push the limit and get a championship medal. No one is hurt,
>> no
>> one is worse off for it.
>>
>> Now was your original thought just pointing out something from Bill's
>> photos
>> or is it trying to say that some teams were possibly breaking a rule?
>>
>> Thanks for reading if you made it this far.
>>
>> Tim Ehlers
>> TRE Photography
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
>> To: "obra List"
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:46 PM
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] TTT Line Crossers
>>
>>
>> > Hey folks,
>> >
>> > I was dinking around on Bill's site and found a bunch of photos of
>> > some line crossers. Was this prevalent at the race? I've highlighted
>> > some of the photos on my site.
>> >
>> > (Yes, I had fun with them- but all of them were across the line)
>> >
>> > k-
>> >
>> > http://obra3.blogspot.com
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


shane.young@comcast.net

2007-05-13

I found that this year the teams were much better than the teams in the past years. There is one set of corners that a great number of cut last year. This year when I was on that set of corners I didn't see anyone cut them. Coming from a "one time official" point of view, I think photos are a great way to have undisputed evidence. As a photographer, I am not there to catch people doing wrong, but if Candi needs them for evidence I am more than willing to give them to her. That being said I have also given Candi photos to solidify results when results for a finish were in question. That allowed for more accurate results. So for better or for worse, there are several photographers at the races. Don't cheat and you won't get disqualified. I think that Candi can tell from the photos what teams were deliberate and what teams weren't.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Lisa_Tim Ehlers"
> Interesting observation mr. kenji! When I post out the rest of my photos
> you will find some that are crossing the yellow line also. I think to
> probably get the best line possible without using brakes you will push the
> yellow line if you can and maybe then some, and some more and maybe so on.
> If you come into a few of the corners and you are pushing 25-30mph and on
> the yellow, your momentum will most likely throw you into the oncoming lane
> on your exit of the corner (unless you slow down prior or brake through the
> corner). marshals were at the most trafficked areas and were doing their
> best to stop traffic in both directions as teams came through. Safety I
> believe is always first and I think this race is pretty safe with its
> location and traffic (minimal).
>
> I have shots from the start line and some of the teams are crossing the
> yellow there so they can get around the teams that are staging to start in a
> safe passing distance. I also should have one where there are three teams
> all shooting down towards corner seven and there is no way to ride three
> teams in one of those lanes.
>
> I do not think it was blatant by any team that was out there, and what were
> the instructions given to them at the start? Since you have ridden this
> course before you know how it is laid out so there are a few corners that
> you will push or go over the yellow and most have a clear line of site for
> oncoming traffic. Corner 7 which is a hard left is coned so you basically
> have to go into the oncoming lane on entry and exit of the corner. They
> also had the marshals at that corner.
>
> I don't think any of the results would be much different and I do not think
> that by us photographers posting our pictures that any possible changes
> should occur. If that would become the norm then myself as a photographer
> would have to make sure I post no photo where anyone appears in violation of
> the rules set in OBRA or any particular rules/instructions given at the
> start.
>
> To answer your question though. I did not witness it to be prevalent
> through the entire course. There were corners and teams that did cross the
> yellow, and it happened. I don't believe even those that are in our photos
> were doing this on every corner or with disregard for their safety or rules.
> I again would ask what were the instructions at the start? Not pointing
> fingers at anyone, but it is a race, they are riding hard as a team and
> trying to push the limit and get a championship medal. No one is hurt, no
> one is worse off for it.
>
> Now was your original thought just pointing out something from Bill's photos
> or is it trying to say that some teams were possibly breaking a rule?
>
> Thanks for reading if you made it this far.
>
> Tim Ehlers
> TRE Photography
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
> To: "obra List"
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:46 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] TTT Line Crossers
>
>
> > Hey folks,
> >
> > I was dinking around on Bill's site and found a bunch of photos of
> > some line crossers. Was this prevalent at the race? I've highlighted
> > some of the photos on my site.
> >
> > (Yes, I had fun with them- but all of them were across the line)
> >
> > k-
> >
> > http://obra3.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Lisa_Tim Ehlers

2007-05-13

Interesting observation mr. kenji! When I post out the rest of my photos
you will find some that are crossing the yellow line also. I think to
probably get the best line possible without using brakes you will push the
yellow line if you can and maybe then some, and some more and maybe so on.
If you come into a few of the corners and you are pushing 25-30mph and on
the yellow, your momentum will most likely throw you into the oncoming lane
on your exit of the corner (unless you slow down prior or brake through the
corner). marshals were at the most trafficked areas and were doing their
best to stop traffic in both directions as teams came through. Safety I
believe is always first and I think this race is pretty safe with its
location and traffic (minimal).

I have shots from the start line and some of the teams are crossing the
yellow there so they can get around the teams that are staging to start in a
safe passing distance. I also should have one where there are three teams
all shooting down towards corner seven and there is no way to ride three
teams in one of those lanes.

I do not think it was blatant by any team that was out there, and what were
the instructions given to them at the start? Since you have ridden this
course before you know how it is laid out so there are a few corners that
you will push or go over the yellow and most have a clear line of site for
oncoming traffic. Corner 7 which is a hard left is coned so you basically
have to go into the oncoming lane on entry and exit of the corner. They
also had the marshals at that corner.

I don't think any of the results would be much different and I do not think
that by us photographers posting our pictures that any possible changes
should occur. If that would become the norm then myself as a photographer
would have to make sure I post no photo where anyone appears in violation of
the rules set in OBRA or any particular rules/instructions given at the
start.

To answer your question though. I did not witness it to be prevalent
through the entire course. There were corners and teams that did cross the
yellow, and it happened. I don't believe even those that are in our photos
were doing this on every corner or with disregard for their safety or rules.
I again would ask what were the instructions at the start? Not pointing
fingers at anyone, but it is a race, they are riding hard as a team and
trying to push the limit and get a championship medal. No one is hurt, no
one is worse off for it.

Now was your original thought just pointing out something from Bill's photos
or is it trying to say that some teams were possibly breaking a rule?

Thanks for reading if you made it this far.

Tim Ehlers
TRE Photography
----- Original Message -----
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"
To: "obra List"
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 6:46 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] TTT Line Crossers

> Hey folks,
>
> I was dinking around on Bill's site and found a bunch of photos of
> some line crossers. Was this prevalent at the race? I've highlighted
> some of the photos on my site.
>
> (Yes, I had fun with them- but all of them were across the line)
>
> k-
>
> http://obra3.blogspot.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


T. Kenji Sugahara

2007-05-13

Hey folks,

I was dinking around on Bill's site and found a bunch of photos of
some line crossers. Was this prevalent at the race? I've highlighted
some of the photos on my site.

(Yes, I had fun with them- but all of them were across the line)

k-

http://obra3.blogspot.com