Monty Hill

And one more thing to add if I would have been riding with the group. I would have beaten the crap out of the driver, she would have survived and I would be sitting in jail. WTF?

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Monty Hill
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 8:42 AM
To: OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

Would the killer be treated in the same regard if she were aiming another deadly weapon down the road with blatant disregard, such as a firearm? Even though a car is a much more effective lethal weapon. Why do cars get a special exception?

Would she have made that move it were 5 cars in front of her? Instead of 5 cyclists?

Cyclist are in a unique position in that we are much more vulnerable than other users on the roadways. People driving cars have no problem brushing by me with only 2 feet to spare. Would they do the same if I were a freight train? Heavens no, their life might actually be in danger. I would imagine there would be a lot fewer deadly accidents if people were driving their cars mounted to the front bumper instead of within their secure cocoon of false security.

We are also unlike pedestrians because we share the same part of the road as motorists, most often not having a special protected crosswalk or side walk.

Motorist awareness of the cyclist vulnerability is the key for our survival?

I remember back when I was in school we had people come and talk to us about the people they had killed drinking and driving. This was part of their sentence. Nothing has a lasting impact on me such as the man who told me he woke up to his wife screaming because there was a little girl stuck in the grill of his truck.

Where is the justice and how can we be pro-active to keep this from happening? And why so many deaths in Washington County where the density of drivers and cyclist is so small compared to Multnomah County? Do something Mr Washington County. Don't just fill out the standard form and call it a day.

Monty

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Doug Hormann
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 11:56 PM
To: david baker; Curt Dewees; OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

Yes. The offenses in question are the same whether you cause an accident or not; kill or injure someone, or not. It doesn't matter if the person is a cyclist, pedestrian or another motorist. Personally, I would be interested in seeing enhanced penalties for injuring or killing someone irregardless of whether they are a cyclist, motorist, etc. I don't believe cyclists should get special treatment; dead is dead.

Just an aside, I regularly ride the area that this tragedy occurred in. That turn is scary because the traffic on Cornelius-Schefflin is often going well over the posted speed limit. For the most part I don't feel too uneasy riding in the west end of Washington County, but Cornelius-Schefflin Rd. is one that I try and avoid as much as possible. Much of it has narrow shoulders and its a major arterial for traffic coming from Forest Grove and Cornelius to get to Hwy. 26. Since it is outside of the Enhanced Sheriff's Patrol (special) District it doesn't get as much attention from patrol as it would warrant in a perfect world. We typically have one car per shift in that patrol district meaning that they don't get much time to do radar enforcement on the roads.

Doug Hormann
Wash Co. Sheriff's Deputy

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
Behalf Of david baker
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:23 PM
To: Curt Dewees; OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

Would the driver have gotten the same punishment if she hit and kiiled
another motorist in the same fashion?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Dewees"
To: "OBRA list"
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

> Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
> (Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has really got
> to sting!)
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/
>
> "On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
> Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
> near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding south
> on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW Long
> Road.
>
> "As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
> also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the group of
> bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
> bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.
>
> "The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
> scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
> Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless Driving,
> and Passing in a No Passing Zone."
>
>
> Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
> Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
> O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
> driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to make
> things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
> system.
>
> And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
> argument is received. Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Monty Hill

Would the killer be treated in the same regard if she were aiming another deadly weapon down the road with blatant disregard, such as a firearm? Even though a car is a much more effective lethal weapon. Why do cars get a special exception?

Would she have made that move it were 5 cars in front of her? Instead of 5 cyclists?

Cyclist are in a unique position in that we are much more vulnerable than other users on the roadways. People driving cars have no problem brushing by me with only 2 feet to spare. Would they do the same if I were a freight train? Heavens no, their life might actually be in danger. I would imagine there would be a lot fewer deadly accidents if people were driving their cars mounted to the front bumper instead of within their secure cocoon of false security.

We are also unlike pedestrians because we share the same part of the road as motorists, most often not having a special protected crosswalk or side walk.

Motorist awareness of the cyclist vulnerability is the key for our survival?

I remember back when I was in school we had people come and talk to us about the people they had killed drinking and driving. This was part of their sentence. Nothing has a lasting impact on me such as the man who told me he woke up to his wife screaming because there was a little girl stuck in the grill of his truck.

Where is the justice and how can we be pro-active to keep this from happening? And why so many deaths in Washington County where the density of drivers and cyclist is so small compared to Multnomah County? Do something Mr Washington County. Don't just fill out the standard form and call it a day.

Monty

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Doug Hormann
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 11:56 PM
To: david baker; Curt Dewees; OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

Yes. The offenses in question are the same whether you cause an accident or not; kill or injure someone, or not. It doesn't matter if the person is a cyclist, pedestrian or another motorist. Personally, I would be interested in seeing enhanced penalties for injuring or killing someone irregardless of whether they are a cyclist, motorist, etc. I don't believe cyclists should get special treatment; dead is dead.

Just an aside, I regularly ride the area that this tragedy occurred in. That turn is scary because the traffic on Cornelius-Schefflin is often going well over the posted speed limit. For the most part I don't feel too uneasy riding in the west end of Washington County, but Cornelius-Schefflin Rd. is one that I try and avoid as much as possible. Much of it has narrow shoulders and its a major arterial for traffic coming from Forest Grove and Cornelius to get to Hwy. 26. Since it is outside of the Enhanced Sheriff's Patrol (special) District it doesn't get as much attention from patrol as it would warrant in a perfect world. We typically have one car per shift in that patrol district meaning that they don't get much time to do radar enforcement on the roads.

Doug Hormann
Wash Co. Sheriff's Deputy

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
Behalf Of david baker
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:23 PM
To: Curt Dewees; OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

Would the driver have gotten the same punishment if she hit and kiiled
another motorist in the same fashion?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Dewees"
To: "OBRA list"
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

> Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
> (Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has really got
> to sting!)
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/
>
> "On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
> Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
> near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding south
> on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW Long
> Road.
>
> "As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
> also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the group of
> bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
> bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.
>
> "The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
> scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
> Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless Driving,
> and Passing in a No Passing Zone."
>
>
> Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
> Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
> O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
> driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to make
> things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
> system.
>
> And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
> argument is received. Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Steve Brown

Doug,

HB 3314 was crafted to create an enhanced awareness of cyclist's on
the road. You certainly remember when the new laws regarding school
zone speed limits were implemented. The media coverage did much more
create a new and improved awareness of school zones than the law
could have by itself. Likewise, recent large increases in speeding
fines in Oregon and Washington get a lot of people thinking twice
before making up a little time.
Whether it is a young driver just learning the rules of the road or
a soccer mom in a SUV with one hand on the cell phone, there are
still many operators of motor vehicles who are aware of cyclists or
who do not operate their vehicles in a safe manner in the presence of
cyclists. There are not many laws that will bring loved ones back
from a fatal accident. But there are many laws that will cause
people to think twice. My most dangerous moments on a bike have not
been busy roads, unsafe intersections or a vehicle who could not see
me.
It has been when motorist have made a conscious to enter a road way
or pass me on a blind curve across double yellow lines when I have
been traveling at the speed limit. They have not been drunk drivers
nor was I riding at night without lights. It was in day light in
good conditions. They were operating late model vehicles and the
incident occurred in high income neighborhoods.
I can understand from many aspects why this law may not seem as the
perfect answer for many people. But is is very good legislation. It
begins to close a very bad loophole in Oregon law, it does not
criminalize the act and it will create a greater awareness of
cyclists on the road. If anyone can write a better law, I will help
them try to get it passed.

Steve Brown

On Jun 13, 2007, at 11:56 PM, Doug Hormann wrote:

> Yes. The offenses in question are the same whether you cause an
> accident or not; kill or injure someone, or not. It doesn't matter
> if the person is a cyclist, pedestrian or another motorist.
> Personally, I would be interested in seeing enhanced penalties for
> injuring or killing someone irregardless of whether they are a
> cyclist, motorist, etc. I don't believe cyclists should get
> special treatment; dead is dead.
>
> Just an aside, I regularly ride the area that this tragedy occurred
> in. That turn is scary because the traffic on Cornelius-Schefflin
> is often going well over the posted speed limit. For the most part
> I don't feel too uneasy riding in the west end of Washington
> County, but Cornelius-Schefflin Rd. is one that I try and avoid as
> much as possible. Much of it has narrow shoulders and its a major
> arterial for traffic coming from Forest Grove and Cornelius to get
> to Hwy. 26. Since it is outside of the Enhanced Sheriff's Patrol
> (special) District it doesn't get as much attention from patrol as
> it would warrant in a perfect world. We typically have one car per
> shift in that patrol district meaning that they don't get much time
> to do radar enforcement on the roads.
>
> Doug Hormann
> Wash Co. Sheriff's Deputy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
> Behalf Of david baker
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:23 PM
> To: Curt Dewees; OBRA list
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
>
> Would the driver have gotten the same punishment if she hit and kiiled
> another motorist in the same fashion?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Curt Dewees"
> To: "OBRA list"
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
>
> > Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
> >
> > (Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has
> really got
> > to sting!)
> >
> > http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/
> >
> > "On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
> > Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
> > near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding
> south
> > on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW
> Long
> > Road.
> >
> > "As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
> > also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the
> group of
> > bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
> > bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.
> >
> > "The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
> > scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
> > Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless
> Driving,
> > and Passing in a No Passing Zone."
> >
> >
> > Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
> > Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
> > O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
> > driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to
> make
> > things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
> > system.
> >
> > And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
> > argument is received. Thank you.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Doug Hormann

Yes. The offenses in question are the same whether you cause an accident or
not; kill or injure someone, or not. It doesn't matter if the person is a
cyclist, pedestrian or another motorist. Personally, I would be interested
in seeing enhanced penalties for injuring or killing someone irregardless of
whether they are a cyclist, motorist, etc. I don't believe cyclists should
get special treatment; dead is dead.

Just an aside, I regularly ride the area that this tragedy occurred in. That
turn is scary because the traffic on Cornelius-Schefflin is often going well
over the posted speed limit. For the most part I don't feel too uneasy
riding in the west end of Washington County, but Cornelius-Schefflin Rd. is
one that I try and avoid as much as possible. Much of it has narrow
shoulders and its a major arterial for traffic coming from Forest Grove and
Cornelius to get to Hwy. 26. Since it is outside of the Enhanced Sheriff's
Patrol (special) District it doesn't get as much attention from patrol as it
would warrant in a perfect world. We typically have one car per shift in
that patrol district meaning that they don't get much time to do radar
enforcement on the roads.

Doug Hormann
Wash Co. Sheriff's Deputy

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
Behalf Of david baker
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 12:23 PM
To: Curt Dewees; OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

Would the driver have gotten the same punishment if she hit and kiiled
another motorist in the same fashion?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Dewees"
To: "OBRA list"
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

> Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
> (Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has really got
> to sting!)
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/
>
> "On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
> Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
> near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding south
> on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW Long
> Road.
>
> "As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
> also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the group of
> bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
> bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.
>
> "The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
> scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
> Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless Driving,
> and Passing in a No Passing Zone."
>
>
> Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
> Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
> O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
> driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to make
> things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
> system.
>
> And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
> argument is received. Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Eric Kytola

My wife was hit by a driver with a suspended liscense, no insurance in a
car that wasn't registered. the police had her at the accident scene and
let her go. we never saw her again. my wife's neck was broken.

still makes both of us sick.

Tina Lemon was her name. i hope she never stumbles across me.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Anderson
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 11:15 AM
To: OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

On 6/10/07, Darell Provencher wrote:

There are ways to prosecute "successfully" under current law,
but it's very difficult (per Steve Brown's earlier comments). I know
that Lorna Kautzky fully supports HB 3314. See link below.

-- Darell


http://www.kgw.com/news/specialreports/stories//kgw_110306_specials_dead
_tired.1010c5c.html

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Jonathan Maus
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:41 PM
To: OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets
Wrist-Slap



I just heard from KPTV (fox news).. she said they will have a
story about this on the news tonight at 10pm. She said they used some
of the discussion on bikeportland to put the story together... so
hopefully it will be good.. we'll see...

ch. 12 at 10pm tonight.
--Jonathan

On 6/10/2007 8:57:38 PM, Mark J. Ginsberg
(markjginsberg@yahoo.com) wrote:
> Scott,
>
> My understanding is that many DA's don't feel that hitting and
killing
> someone while driving is "negligent operation", especially
when we see the
> "sun was in my eyes" excuse.
> I don't support that position, but our various prosecuters
won't charge
> those crimes with the laws oregon has.
>
> I think at least one DA is on the OBRA list, so if he is
> I'll let him chime in if he wants.
>
> Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
>
>
> Scott Jones wrote: Just my two cents
on this since I have been hit by a car before....
>
> If we, as cyclists, are obligated to abide by the rules of the
road --> just like a car. See the recent posts on not stopping at signs
and getting tickets. We are labeled as cars/vehicles in Oregon. Why then
are we not considered a vehicle when we are hit and killed? Would this
not be considered vehicular homicide? (Vehicular Homicide =involves
death that results from the negligent operation of a vehicle, or that
results from driving whilst committing an unlawful act).
>
> Washington State has a vehicular homicide law that deems it a
felony, it is time Oregon gets on board!
>
> I would like to say that this cyclist, unlike many that I

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

The driver was driving with a suspended license. I'm no expert on the
subject, but I thing that means she should not have been driving. She
was intentionally committing a crime that resulted in the death of
another person. They should throw her ass in jail for a long time.

This makes me sick.

--
Rob Anderson
riznob@gmail.com

Robert Anderson

On 6/10/07, Darell Provencher wrote:
>
> There are ways to prosecute "successfully" under current law, but it's
> very difficult (per Steve Brown's earlier comments). I know that Lorna
> Kautzky fully supports HB 3314. See link below.
>
> -- Darell
>
>
> http://www.kgw.com/news/specialreports/stories//kgw_110306_specials_dead_tired.1010c5c.html
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Jonathan Maus
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:41 PM
> *To:* OBRA list
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
> I just heard from KPTV (fox news).. she said they will have a story
> about this on the news tonight at 10pm. She said they used some of the
> discussion on bikeportland to put the story together... so hopefully it will
> be good.. we'll see...
>
> ch. 12 at 10pm tonight.
> --Jonathan
>
> On 6/10/2007 8:57:38 PM, Mark J. Ginsberg (markjginsberg@yahoo.com) wrote:
> > Scott,
> >
> > My understanding is that many DA's don't feel that hitting and killing
> > someone while driving is "negligent operation", especially when we see
> the
> > "sun was in my eyes" excuse.
> > I don't support that position, but our various prosecuters won't charge
> > those crimes with the laws oregon has.
> >
> > I think at least one DA is on the OBRA list, so if he is
> > I'll let him chime in if he wants.
> >
> > Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
> >
> >
> > Scott Jones wrote: Just my two cents on this
> since I have been hit by a car before....
> >
> > If we, as cyclists, are obligated to abide by the rules of the road -->
> just like a car. See the recent posts on not stopping at signs and getting
> tickets. We are labeled as cars/vehicles in Oregon. Why then are we not
> considered a vehicle when we are hit and killed? Would this not be
> considered vehicular homicide? (Vehicular Homicide =involves death that
> results from the negligent operation of a vehicle, or that results from
> driving whilst committing an unlawful act).
> >
> > Washington State has a vehicular homicide law that deems it a felony, it
> is time Oregon gets on board!
> >
> > I would like to say that this cyclist, unlike many that I
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
The driver was driving with a suspended license. I'm no expert on the
subject, but I thing that means she should not have been driving. She was
intentionally committing a crime that resulted in the death of another
person. They should throw her ass in jail for a long time.

This makes me sick.

--
Rob Anderson
riznob@gmail.com

Darell Provencher

There are ways to prosecute "successfully" under current law, but it's very
difficult (per Steve Brown's earlier comments). I know that Lorna Kautzky
fully supports HB 3314. See link below.

-- Darell

http://www.kgw.com/news/specialreports/stories//kgw_110306_specials_dead_tir
ed.1010c5c.html

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Maus
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 9:41 PM
To: OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

I just heard from KPTV (fox news).. she said they will have a story about
this on the news tonight at 10pm. She said they used some of the discussion
on bikeportland to put the story together... so hopefully it will be good..
we'll see...

ch. 12 at 10pm tonight.
--Jonathan

On 6/10/2007 8:57:38 PM, Mark J. Ginsberg (markjginsberg@yahoo.com) wrote:
> Scott,
>
> My understanding is that many DA's don't feel that hitting and killing
> someone while driving is "negligent operation", especially when we see the
> "sun was in my eyes" excuse.
> I don't support that position, but our various prosecuters won't charge
> those crimes with the laws oregon has.
>
> I think at least one DA is on the OBRA list, so if he is
> I'll let him chime in if he wants.
>
> Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
>
>
> Scott Jones wrote: Just my two cents on this
since I have been hit by a car before....
>
> If we, as cyclists, are obligated to abide by the rules of the road -->
just like a car. See the recent posts on not stopping at signs and getting
tickets. We are labeled as cars/vehicles in Oregon. Why then are we not
considered a vehicle when we are hit and killed? Would this not be
considered vehicular homicide? (Vehicular Homicide =involves death that
results from the negligent operation of a vehicle, or that results from
driving whilst committing an unlawful act).
>
> Washington State has a vehicular homicide law that deems it a felony, it
is time Oregon gets on board!
>
> I would like to say that this cyclist, unlike many that I

T. Kenji Sugahara

just saw it. good coverage.

interviewed two of the guys on the ride and one of the neighbors who
came out to help.

On Jun 10, 2007, at 9:41 PM, Jonathan Maus wrote:

> I just heard from KPTV (fox news).. she said they will have a
> story about this on the news tonight at 10pm. She said they used
> some of the discussion on bikeportland to put the story together...
> so hopefully it will be good.. we'll see...
>
> ch. 12 at 10pm tonight.
> --Jonathan
>
> On 6/10/2007 8:57:38 PM, Mark J. Ginsberg (markjginsberg@yahoo.com)
> wrote:
> > Scott,
> >
> > My understanding is that many DA's don't feel that hitting and
> killing
> > someone while driving is "negligent operation", especially when
> we see the
> > "sun was in my eyes" excuse.
> > I don't support that position, but our various prosecuters won't
> charge
> > those crimes with the laws oregon has.
> >
> > I think at least one DA is on the OBRA list, so if he is
> > I'll let him chime in if he wants.
> >
> > Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
> >
> >
> > Scott Jones wrote: Just my two cents on
> this since I have been hit by a car before....
> >
> > If we, as cyclists, are obligated to abide by the rules of the
> road --> just like a car. See the recent posts on not stopping at
> signs and getting tickets. We are labeled as cars/vehicles in
> Oregon. Why then are we not considered a vehicle when we are hit
> and killed? Would this not be considered vehicular homicide?
> (Vehicular Homicide =involves death that results from the negligent
> operation of a vehicle, or that results from driving whilst
> committing an unlawful act).
> >
> > Washington State has a vehicular homicide law that deems it a
> felony, it is time Oregon gets on board!
> >
> > I would like to say that this cyclist, unlike many that I
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jonathan Maus

I just heard from KPTV (fox news).. she said they will have a story about this on the news tonight at 10pm. She said they used some of the discussion on bikeportland to put the story together... so hopefully it will be good.. we'll see...

ch. 12 at 10pm tonight.
--Jonathan

On 6/10/2007 8:57:38 PM, Mark J. Ginsberg (markjginsberg@yahoo.com) wrote:
> Scott,
>
> My understanding is that many DA's don't feel that hitting and killing
> someone while driving is "negligent operation", especially when we see the
> "sun was in my eyes" excuse.
> I don't support that position, but our various prosecuters won't charge
> those crimes with the laws oregon has.
>
> I think at least one DA is on the OBRA list, so if he is
> I'll let him chime in if he wants.
>
> Mark Ginsberg, Esq.
>
>
> Scott Jones wrote: Just my two cents on this since I have been hit by a car before....
>
> If we, as cyclists, are obligated to abide by the rules of the road --> just like a car. See the recent posts on not stopping at signs and getting tickets. We are labeled as cars/vehicles in Oregon. Why then are we not considered a vehicle when we are hit and killed? Would this not be considered vehicular homicide? (Vehicular Homicide =involves death that results from the negligent operation of a vehicle, or that results from driving whilst committing an unlawful act).
>
> Washington State has a vehicular homicide law that deems it a felony, it is time Oregon gets on board!
>
> I would like to say that this cyclist, unlike many that I

Mark J. Ginsberg

Scott,

My understanding is that many DA's don't feel that hitting and killing someone while driving is "negligent operation", especially when we see the "sun was in my eyes" excuse.
I don't support that position, but our various prosecuters won't charge those crimes with the laws oregon has.

I think at least one DA is on the OBRA list, so if he is I'll let him chime in if he wants.

Mark Ginsberg, Esq.

Scott Jones wrote: Just my two cents on this since I have been hit by a car before....

If we, as cyclists, are obligated to abide by the rules of the road --> just like a car. See the recent posts on not stopping at signs and getting tickets. We are labeled as cars/vehicles in Oregon. Why then are we not considered a vehicle when we are hit and killed? Would this not be considered vehicular homicide? (Vehicular Homicide =involves death that results from the negligent operation of a vehicle, or that results from driving whilst committing an unlawful act).

Washington State has a vehicular homicide law that deems it a felony, it is time Oregon gets on board!

I would like to say that this cyclist, unlike many that I see here in Eugene, actually signaled! I try to signal every turn and stop that I make, but I am not perfect.

--
Scott Jones
University of Oregon Cycling
971-998-2132

On 6/10/07, Stephen Hemminger wrote: On 6/10/07, david baker wrote:
> Would the driver have gotten the same punishment if she hit and kiiled
> another motorist in the same fashion?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Curt Dewees"
> To: "OBRA list" < obra@list.obra.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
>
> > Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
> >
> > (Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has really got
> > to sting!)
> >
> > http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/
> >
> > "On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
> > Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
> > near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding south
> > on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW Long
> > Road.
> >
> > "As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
> > also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the group of
> > bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
> > bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.
> >
> > "The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
> > scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
> > Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless Driving,
> > and Passing in a No Passing Zone."
> >
> >
> > Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
> > Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
> > O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
> > driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to make
> > things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
> > system.
> >
> > And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
> > argument is received. Thank you.

Megan's law was named after an abducted child.
Sounds like a little PR campaign on the news would help.
How about naming the bill after the fallen cyclist.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 227-2530
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

---------------------------------
Building a website is a piece of cake.
Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.

Scott Jones

Just my two cents on this since I have been hit by a car before....

If we, as cyclists, are obligated to abide by the rules of the road --> just
like a car. See the recent posts on not stopping at signs and getting
tickets. We are labeled as cars/vehicles in Oregon. Why then are we not
considered a vehicle when we are hit and killed? Would this not be
considered vehicular homicide? (Vehicular Homicide =involves death that
results from the negligent operation of a vehicle, or that results from
driving whilst committing an unlawful act).

Washington State has a vehicular homicide law that deems it a felony, it is
time Oregon gets on board!

I would like to say that this cyclist, unlike many that I see here in
Eugene, actually signaled! I try to signal every turn and stop that I make,
but I am not perfect.

--
Scott Jones
University of Oregon Cycling
971-998-2132

On 6/10/07, Stephen Hemminger wrote:
>
> On 6/10/07, david baker wrote:
> > Would the driver have gotten the same punishment if she hit and kiiled
> > another motorist in the same fashion?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Curt Dewees"
> > To: "OBRA list"
> > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
> >
> >
> > > Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
> > >
> > > (Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has really got
> > > to sting!)
> > >
> > > http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/
> > >
> > > "On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
> > > Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
> > > near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding south
> > > on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW Long
> > > Road.
> > >
> > > "As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
> > > also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the group of
> > > bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
> > > bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.
> > >
> > > "The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
> > > scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
> > > Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless Driving,
> > > and Passing in a No Passing Zone."
> > >
> > >
> > > Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
> > > Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
> > > O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
> > > driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to make
> > > things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
> > > system.
> > >
> > > And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
> > > argument is received. Thank you.
>
> Megan's law was named after an abducted child.
> Sounds like a little PR campaign on the news would help.
> How about naming the bill after the fallen cyclist.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Stephen Hemminger

On 6/10/07, david baker wrote:
> Would the driver have gotten the same punishment if she hit and kiiled
> another motorist in the same fashion?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Curt Dewees"
> To: "OBRA list"
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
>
> > Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
> >
> > (Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has really got
> > to sting!)
> >
> > http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/
> >
> > "On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
> > Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
> > near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding south
> > on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW Long
> > Road.
> >
> > "As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
> > also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the group of
> > bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
> > bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.
> >
> > "The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
> > scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
> > Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless Driving,
> > and Passing in a No Passing Zone."
> >
> >
> > Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
> > Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
> > O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
> > driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to make
> > things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
> > system.
> >
> > And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
> > argument is received. Thank you.

Megan's law was named after an abducted child.
Sounds like a little PR campaign on the news would help.
How about naming the bill after the fallen cyclist.

david baker

Would the driver have gotten the same punishment if she hit and kiiled
another motorist in the same fashion?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Dewees"
To: "OBRA list"
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

> Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
> (Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has really got
> to sting!)
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/
>
> "On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
> Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
> near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding south
> on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW Long
> Road.
>
> "As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
> also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the group of
> bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
> bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.
>
> "The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
> scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
> Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless Driving,
> and Passing in a No Passing Zone."
>
>
> Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
> Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
> O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
> driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to make
> things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
> system.
>
> And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
> argument is received. Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Michael O'Hair

There was an interesting proposal going around a while ago that would make
"driving while suspended" a felony. An approach I favor, by the way. The
problem was and still is that there no funding available to enforce it.

Unfortunately, we are living with the results of very well funded political
movements that have shifted the tax burden from corporations and the rich to
the ( rapidly dwindling ) middle class.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Dewees"
To: "OBRA list"
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 10:19 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

> Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap
>
> (Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has really got
> to sting!)
>
> http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/
>
> "On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
> Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
> near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding south
> on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW Long
> Road.
>
> "As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
> also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the group of
> bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
> bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.
>
> "The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
> scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
> Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless Driving,
> and Passing in a No Passing Zone."
>
>
> Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
> Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
> O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
> driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to make
> things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
> system.
>
> And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
> argument is received. Thank you.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Curt Dewees

Car Driver Kills Cyclist; Gets Wrist-Slap

(Oh, my! That citation for "Passing in No Passing Zone" has really got
to sting!)

http://bikeportland.org/2007/06/09/fatal-crash-in-washington-county/

"On June 9th, 2007 at 12:14pm Deputies with the Washington County
Sheriff's Office responded to a crash on NW Cornelius-Schefflin Road
near NW Long Road (map). A group of five bicyclists were riding south
on Cornelius-Schefflin Road and were preparing to turn east on NW Long
Road.

"As the second cyclist in the line signaled for the turn a vehicle
also traveling south on Cornelius-Schefflin began to pass the group of
bicycles. The vehicle, a 2008 Dodge Avenger, struck the signaling
bicyclist while it was still in it's lane of traffic.

"The bicyclist, 66 year-old Timothy O'Donnell of Aloha, died at the
scene. The driver of the vehicle, 26- year- old Jennifer Knight of
Hayden Idaho, was cited for Driving While Suspended, Careless Driving,
and Passing in a No Passing Zone."

Here's challenge for those OBRA riders who remain opposed the the
Vulnerable Roadway Users' bill: Go to the family members of Timothy
O'Donnell and explain to them how the traffic citations given to the
driver who killed their loved one are really all that's needed to make
things right, in terms of achieving meaningful justice in our legal
system.

And please do the rest of us the favor of letting us know how your
argument is received. Thank you.