David Auker

Bottom line: everyone tries their best. In a sense, officials try and
run the show to please the racers, the racers try and ride their show to
"please" the officials (and, of course, their own racer instincts).
Officials/racers. Racers/officials. Can't have one w/o the other!
When the lap board says one thing, and the bell another, it IS very
frustrating!! When this occurs, there is usually a good reason...but
not always. :-) Bell RULES is a good thing to remember, in any case.
In the heat of competition, be it PIR or World Championship, a true
racer gets really focused on racing, so some sympathy should be given
should be given the "finish line instinct" that saw the lap board say
one thing, the bell another. Situations aren't always perfect (but in
the high 90%'s, yes!).

David A.

(I was in a good-money criterium in Walla-Walla a bunch of years back,
and we sprinted after seeing the 1-to go lapboard. As we crossed the
line, the bell was rung. OOPS! This was a case of official-error.)

David Hart wrote:
> This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR
>
> REMINDER-
>
> Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.
>
> I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do
> extra laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a
> hot spot into the back of another OR having two fields have a finish
> on the same lap, we have to change what laps you get hot spots on or
> your finish lap.
>
> Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.
>
> the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1
> lap to go on a hot spot or finish
>
> if we said the hot spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was
> not rung, then there is NO hot spot
>
> It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps as
> well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other.
> It's hard to keep track.
>
> If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work
> PIR as an official. You know where to find us.
>
> David Hart
> Monday PIR Official
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Tim Schauer

Okay....As someone who has had the personal pleasure of sprinting when I
thought it was a hot spot, or when I thought it was the last lap (last
night as an example I did just that), I know it is frustrating at the
time, but come on! I had several people remind me that there was no
bell. I know the rule. The bell is king. I should have known better.
Hell, I do know better!

And anyone who is surprised or frustrated for more than 10 minutes after
a PIR race about unpredictable or irregular lap count must be new around
here. That is part of the PIR experience. Laps get cut, laps get added.
Sometimes you sprint and it counts and sometimes you sprint and the hot
spot was cancelled. That is just the way it is. Unless someone wants to
buy 3 or 4 more lap counters (one for each field) and pay for an
official for each counter "...that's racing folks..."

Somebody also politely (?) pointed out to me last night..."Hey Tim,
maybe if you are sprinting for the line, you are all alone dropping the
pack, and the pack is just watching you go...that should be a
hint...that just maybe...there was no BELL!!!!...."

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Suz Weldon
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 2:52 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow

Let me guess, you "would have won" if it weren't for those pesky
officials making it all inconvenient for you and depriving you of your
awesome finish and massive paycheck. Wow, I didn't know there was such
big money to be won at PIR! ;-)

Quoting Danny Knudsen :

> So it's a lottery now, like last night you had two to go two times????

> could you please send me that rule off line when you get time.
>
> Danny Knudsen
>
>
>> From: "David Hart"
>> To: obra
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
>> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:16:50 -0700
>>
>> This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR
>>
>> REMINDER-
>>
>> Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.
>>
>> I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do
>> extra laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a
>> hot spot into the back of another OR having two fields have a finish
>> on the same lap, we have to change what laps you get hot spots on or
your finish lap.
>>
>> Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.
>>
>> the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1

>> lap to go on a hot spot or finish
>>
>> if we said the hot spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was

>> not rung, then there is NO hot spot
>>
>> It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps
>> as well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other.

>> It's hard to keep track.
>>
>> If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work
>> PIR as an official. You know where to find us.
>>
>> David Hart
>> Monday PIR Official
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Suz Weldon

Let me guess, you "would have won" if it weren't for those pesky
officials making it all inconvenient for you and depriving you of your
awesome finish and massive paycheck. Wow, I didn't know there was
such big money to be won at PIR! ;-)

Quoting Danny Knudsen :

> So it's a lottery now, like last night you had two to go two times???? could
> you please send me that rule off line when you get time.
>
> Danny Knudsen
>
>
>> From: "David Hart"
>> To: obra
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
>> Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:16:50 -0700
>>
>> This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR
>>
>> REMINDER-
>>
>> Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.
>>
>> I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do extra
>> laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a hot spot into
>> the back of another OR having two fields have a finish on the same lap, we
>> have to change what laps you get hot spots on or your finish lap.
>>
>> Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.
>>
>> the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1 lap
>> to
>> go on a hot spot or finish
>>
>> if we said the hot spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was not
>> rung, then there is NO hot spot
>>
>> It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps as
>> well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other. It's
>> hard
>> to keep track.
>>
>> If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work PIR as
>> an official. You know where to find us.
>>
>> David Hart
>> Monday PIR Official
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Jeff Tedder & Shari

THANK YOU LISA.............
We all love you, some of us just have a strange way of showing it.....Like telling you how to do your job, I think you guys do a fine job, what's a lap one way or the other anyway, especially when you are trying to keep the fields seperated to some point so you can score hot spots and the finish.... Listen for bell, then you have 2 miles to move up or just sit there and count the minutes until your done...I guess maybe I wouldn't say this some night when I am struggling to hang on, then I might cuss you under my breath....HAH....See ya
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: lisa graham
To: gschreckchat@comcast.net ; dannyknudsen@msn.com ; suckwheel@gmail.com ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow

George explained it well, that's why two was shown twice , remember to keep track of you own laps and ALWAYS remember the bell rules.When it's rung, it's for hot spots and finishes. All the officials are fellow racers or have been racers, so instead of yelling and getting mad at the officials who are standing out there for your benifit, flipping a lap board and keeping track of hot spots and over 125 riders, maybe a nice thank you would be a better option,how about trying that next PIR.

Lisa Graham

Just chillin with my homies

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: "Danny Knudsen" , suckwheel@gmail.com,obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:40:53 +0000

The reason why they had 2 to go twice was because the first one was for the 4/5's who had just passed through seconds before us. It is difficult to manage the lap cards when there are multiple groups within seconds of each other. We ended up doing the proper number of laps.

One more thing, it is only PIR and nothing to get too worked up about. Of course, I never bother to sprint at PIR so I probably have a different perspective.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Danny Knudsen"

> So it's a lottery now, like last night you had two to go two times???? could
> you please send me that rule off line when you get time.
>
> Danny Knudsen
>
>
> >From: "David Hart"
> >To: obra
> >Subject: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
> >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:16:50 -0700
> >
> >This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR
> >
> >REMINDER-
> >
> >Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.
> >
> >I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do extra
> >laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a hot spot into
> >the back of an other OR having two fields have a finish on the same lap, we
> >have to change what laps you get hot spots on or your finish lap.
> >
> >Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.
> >
> >the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1 lap
> >to
> >go on a hot spot or finish
> >
> >if we said the hot spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was not
> >rung, then there is NO hot spot
> >
> >It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps as
> >well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other. It's
> >hard
> >to keep track.
> >
> >If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work PIR as
> >an official. You know where to find us.
> >
> >David Hart
> >Monday PIR Official
>
> < BR>> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

jboquiren@comcast.net

Yeah. Candi just rolls the dice to see how many laps remain.

Just like in track.

-------------- Original message --------------
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net

It works for track. People would keep attacking and chasing because no one would ever know when the race would end. We could make it a minimum of 15 laps and unknown distance beyond that.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dan H"

> Just make it random like an unknown distance. Bell rings, you have 1.9 miles
> to do whatever you're gonna do. Imagine the fun!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Danny Knudsen"
> To: ;
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
>
>
> > So it's a lottery now, like last night you had two to go two times????
> > could
> > you please send me that rule off line when you get time.
> >
> > Danny Knudsen
> >
> >
> >>From: "David Hart"
> >>To: obra
> >>Subject: [OBRA C hat] P IR rules to follow
> >>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:16:50 -0700
> >>
> >>This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR
> >>
> >>REMINDER-
> >>
> >>Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.
> >>
> >>I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do extra
> >>laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a hot spot
> >>into
> >>the back of another OR having two fields have a finish on the same lap, we
> >>have to change what laps you get hot spots on or your finish lap.
> >>
> >>Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.
> >>
> >>the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1 lap
> >>to
> >>go on a hot spot or finish
> >>
> >>if we said the ho t spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was not
> >>rung, then there is NO hot spot
> >>
> >>It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps as
> >>well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other. It's
> >>hard
> >>to keep track.
> >>
> >>If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work PIR as
> >>an official. You know where to find us.
> >>
> >>David Hart
> >>Monday PIR Official
> >
> >
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>OBRA mailing list
> >>obra@list.obra.org
> >>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailin g list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

It works for track. People would keep attacking and chasing because no one would ever know when the race would end. We could make it a minimum of 15 laps and unknown distance beyond that.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dan H"

> Just make it random like an unknown distance. Bell rings, you have 1.9 miles
> to do whatever you're gonna do. Imagine the fun!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Danny Knudsen"
> To: ;
> Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:11 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
>
>
> > So it's a lottery now, like last night you had two to go two times????
> > could
> > you please send me that rule off line when you get time.
> >
> > Danny Knudsen
> >
> >
> >>From: "David Hart"
> >>To: obra
> >>Subject: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
> >>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:16:50 -0700
> >>
> >>This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR
> >>
> >>REMINDER-
> >>
> >>Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.
> >>
> >>I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do extra
> >>laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a hot spot
> >>into
> >>the back of another OR having two fields have a finish on the same lap, we
> >>have to change what laps you get hot spots on or your finish lap.
> >>
> >>Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.
> >>
> >>the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1 lap
> >>to
> >>go on a hot spot or finish
> >>
> >>if we said the hot spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was not
> >>rung, then there is NO hot spot
> >>
> >>It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps as
> >>well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other. It's
> >>hard
> >>to keep track.
> >>
> >>If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work PIR as
> >>an official. You know where to find us.
> >>
> >>David Hart
> >>Monday PIR Official
> >
> >
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>OBRA mailing list
> >>obra@list.obra.org
> >>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

lisa graham

Dan H

Just make it random like an unknown distance. Bell rings, you have 1.9 miles
to do whatever you're gonna do. Imagine the fun!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Knudsen"
To: ;
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow

> So it's a lottery now, like last night you had two to go two times????
> could
> you please send me that rule off line when you get time.
>
> Danny Knudsen
>
>
>>From: "David Hart"
>>To: obra
>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
>>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:16:50 -0700
>>
>>This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR
>>
>>REMINDER-
>>
>>Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.
>>
>>I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do extra
>>laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a hot spot
>>into
>>the back of another OR having two fields have a finish on the same lap, we
>>have to change what laps you get hot spots on or your finish lap.
>>
>>Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.
>>
>>the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1 lap
>>to
>>go on a hot spot or finish
>>
>>if we said the hot spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was not
>>rung, then there is NO hot spot
>>
>>It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps as
>>well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other. It's
>>hard
>>to keep track.
>>
>>If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work PIR as
>>an official. You know where to find us.
>>
>>David Hart
>>Monday PIR Official
>
>
>>_______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

gschreckchat@comcast.net

The reason why they had 2 to go twice was because the first one was for the 4/5's who had just passed through seconds before us. It is difficult to manage the lap cards when there are multiple groups within seconds of each other. We ended up doing the proper number of laps.

One more thing, it is only PIR and nothing to get too worked up about. Of course, I never bother to sprint at PIR so I probably have a different perspective.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Danny Knudsen"

> So it's a lottery now, like last night you had two to go two times???? could
> you please send me that rule off line when you get time.
>
> Danny Knudsen
>
>
> >From: "David Hart"
> >To: obra
> >Subject: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
> >Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:16:50 -0700
> >
> >This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR
> >
> >REMINDER-
> >
> >Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.
> >
> >I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do extra
> >laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a hot spot into
> >the back of another OR having two fields have a finish on the same lap, we
> >have to change what laps you get hot spots on or your finish lap.
> >
> >Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.
> >
> >the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1 lap
> >to
> >go on a hot spot or finish
> >
> >if we said the hot spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was not
> >rung, then there is NO hot spot
> >
> >It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps as
> >well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other. It's
> >hard
> >to keep track.
> >
> >If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work PIR as
> >an official. You know where to find us.
> >
> >David Hart
> >Monday PIR Official
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Danny Knudsen

So it's a lottery now, like last night you had two to go two times???? could
you please send me that rule off line when you get time.

Danny Knudsen

>From: "David Hart"
>To: obra
>Subject: [OBRA Chat] PIR rules to follow
>Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:16:50 -0700
>
>This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR
>
>REMINDER-
>
>Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.
>
>I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do extra
>laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a hot spot into
>the back of another OR having two fields have a finish on the same lap, we
>have to change what laps you get hot spots on or your finish lap.
>
>Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.
>
>the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1 lap
>to
>go on a hot spot or finish
>
>if we said the hot spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was not
>rung, then there is NO hot spot
>
>It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps as
>well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other. It's
>hard
>to keep track.
>
>If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work PIR as
>an official. You know where to find us.
>
>David Hart
>Monday PIR Official

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

David Hart

This could go for both Mon & Tues PIR

REMINDER-

Hot Spots and laps can be changed by the official.

I know it really upsets you that the hot spots are moved and you do extra
laps or less laps. In order to keep the fields from having a hot spot into
the back of another OR having two fields have a finish on the same lap, we
have to change what laps you get hot spots on or your finish lap.

Follow these simple rules and all should be just fine.

the bell RULES, you hear the bell on your field, that means you are 1 lap to
go on a hot spot or finish

if we said the hot spot was on lap 10 at your start and the bell was not
rung, then there is NO hot spot

It is your job to listen for the bell and to keep track of the laps as
well. Sometimes 3 fields go by withing 20 seconds of each other. It's hard
to keep track.

If you think it's easy to keep track of 125+ riders, then come work PIR as
an official. You know where to find us.

David Hart
Monday PIR Official