=?utf-8?B?RGFyZWxs?=

And don't forget Marymoor Velodrome in Redmond, WA - possibly FSA Grand Prix and a couple other events?

Darell

Sent wirelessly via BlackBerry from T-Mobile.

-----Original Message-----
From: "Mike Murray"

Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:53:46
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Pursuits Tonight at Alpenrose

Per Bjesse wrote:
"As I have race age 34 I can now do exactly two 3ks at Alpenrose this year."

As I count it the pursuits that a 34 year old can do this year at Alpenrose
NOT at the Tuesday series are:

1) Alpenrose Thursday Series, second week

2) Oregon State Track Championships

3) Alpenrose Challenge

4) Oregon Masters Track Championships

5) Track Nationals Qualifier

So this is 5, not 2. I meet each year with the managers from all the other
velodromes and I can tell you we do lots more timed events at Alpenrose than
other tracks do. Most complain about having to do 1 pursuit each year. If
the issue is the 3K vs. 4K distance it seems to me that this is splitting
the hair a bit too fine. In fact, if you wish, I can show you where the
last K marker is on the track and you can have someone time you at that
point during the 4K to get you a 3K time. Feel free to just coast in for the
last K. If the issue is that Per can't make it to the other 3 times, well
not much we can do about that.

>From reading Steve's follow up note it appears that he is willing to have
under 35+ riders on TT nights and score them separately. This sounds like a
good idea. I do agree with his idea of NOT having under 35 riders on
Masters mass start nights as the presence of the 30-34 riders inhibits
participation by the much larger group of 35 plus riders. In fact, 40 plus
actually makes much more sense from a demographic point of view.

Mike Murray

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Per Bjesse

Right. But for someone focussing on Master's nationals the only 3ks you can
do is 1) and 3). And there is a difference between racing 3ks and 4ks,
unfortunately.

This aside, however, I am very happy about the resolution of the issue that
Steve graciously offered, and I have already promised him all the assistance
I can give in terms of helping out with timing or holding for timed events
where I consume resources. So all is well as far as I am concerned.

Regards,
-Per

>From: "Mike Murray"
>Reply-To: mike.murray@obra.org
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Pursuits Tonight at Alpenrose
>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:53:46 -0700
>
>Per Bjesse wrote:
>"As I have race age 34 I can now do exactly two 3ks at Alpenrose this
>year."
>
>As I count it the pursuits that a 34 year old can do this year at Alpenrose
>NOT at the Tuesday series are:
>
>1) Alpenrose Thursday Series, second week
>
>2) Oregon State Track Championships
>
>3) Alpenrose Challenge
>
>4) Oregon Masters Track Championships
>
>5) Track Nationals Qualifier
>
>So this is 5, not 2. I meet each year with the managers from all the other
>velodromes and I can tell you we do lots more timed events at Alpenrose
>than
>other tracks do. Most complain about having to do 1 pursuit each year. If
>the issue is the 3K vs. 4K distance it seems to me that this is splitting
>the hair a bit too fine. In fact, if you wish, I can show you where the
>last K marker is on the track and you can have someone time you at that
>point during the 4K to get you a 3K time. Feel free to just coast in for
>the
>last K. If the issue is that Per can't make it to the other 3 times, well
>not much we can do about that.
>
>From reading Steve's follow up note it appears that he is willing to have
>under 35+ riders on TT nights and score them separately. This sounds like
>a
>good idea. I do agree with his idea of NOT having under 35 riders on
>Masters mass start nights as the presence of the 30-34 riders inhibits
>participation by the much larger group of 35 plus riders. In fact, 40 plus
>actually makes much more sense from a demographic point of view.
>
>Mike Murray
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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Mike Murray

Per Bjesse wrote:
"As I have race age 34 I can now do exactly two 3ks at Alpenrose this year."

As I count it the pursuits that a 34 year old can do this year at Alpenrose
NOT at the Tuesday series are:

1) Alpenrose Thursday Series, second week

2) Oregon State Track Championships

3) Alpenrose Challenge

4) Oregon Masters Track Championships

5) Track Nationals Qualifier

So this is 5, not 2. I meet each year with the managers from all the other
velodromes and I can tell you we do lots more timed events at Alpenrose than
other tracks do. Most complain about having to do 1 pursuit each year. If
the issue is the 3K vs. 4K distance it seems to me that this is splitting
the hair a bit too fine. In fact, if you wish, I can show you where the
last K marker is on the track and you can have someone time you at that
point during the 4K to get you a 3K time. Feel free to just coast in for the
last K. If the issue is that Per can't make it to the other 3 times, well
not much we can do about that.

From reading Steve's follow up note it appears that he is willing to have
under 35+ riders on TT nights and score them separately. This sounds like a
good idea. I do agree with his idea of NOT having under 35 riders on
Masters mass start nights as the presence of the 30-34 riders inhibits
participation by the much larger group of 35 plus riders. In fact, 40 plus
actually makes much more sense from a demographic point of view.

Mike Murray

steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser

In defense of Per, I agree that there are not enough pursuits and that is why we have so many nights of timed events. We have the limit at 35+ in an effort to get to the 40+ standard next year without cutting our throats in the process. This age limit is geared toward the mass start races and does not affect the timed events. I will be happy to open the timed events to 30+ Masters Men the next time we have them.
This night of racing is for the Juniors and Masters with an emphasis on Juniors and providing a positive racing environment. Therefore I am more than open to any suggestions and offers of help in order to provide the best program possible for all involved. If you would like to get involved, please email me OFF LIST of just show up with a smile on your face.
Thanks to everyone, Steve.

Per Bjesse wrote:
I do not understand why you changed the format of your series to exclude
30-35 men. In fact, take someone like me that are planning their whole
season around the pursuit at master's nationals (I can't go to nationals
until next year due to citizenship issues). As I have race age 34 I can now
do exactly two 3ks at Alpenrose this year. If the purpose of your series is
to promote master's racing all the way from the grass roots to the highest
level, I would have thought that you would be inclusive rather than
exclusive.

It also seems odd that the cutoff is 30 for women and higher for men. If
your concern is that 30-35 men somehow is more prone to crashing, then you
could allow 30-35 men for timed events only. If on the other hand the
concern is that the 30-35 group is too fast, then score 30-35 separately
from the other categories (or time us but don't publish the time in the
offical results).

Regards,
-Per

>From: steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser
>To: OBRA
>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Pursuits Tonight at Alpenrose
>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Tonight is Pursuit Night at
> Tuesday Night Juniors and Masters Track Racing
> at Alpenrose Velodrome
>
> Open to all Juniors, Masters Women(30+)
> and Masters Men(35+)
>
> Distances are: Women and Men 50+ 2K
> Men 35+ 3K
>
> Remember that helmets and an OBRA license are required. You can get a
>license at registration which opens at 5:30. Racing starts at 6:30.
> Rental bikes are available for $5 (jrs=$0)
> Registration is $10 (jrs=$0)
>
> See you at the track!

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

Mark J. Ginsberg

Per,

So then agree to help Steve. Volunteer, give his event your time (or money) to shape it in the direction YOU want it to go.

Noone owes any of us a thing, in this hobby of ours called bike racing. (and MASTERS BIKE RACING at that!)
So don't tell Steve what's wrong with his series, that he created (with the help of others), but work with him to help make it what you hope it could be.

no one cares about your (or my) personal project as much as you (or me).
So give it your time to make it what you think it can become.

Mark Ginsberg

Per Bjesse wrote: Mark, George: First of all, I appreciate the effort that Steve puts into
putting on his series. In fact, I find it cool enough that I wish it could
benefit more people than it currently does.

As for your specific proposal: To me it does not make sense to have two
masters track series on separate nights rather than have the three to five
30-35 yr olds that may be interested in Master's length timed events be
allowed to race the existing one with separate scoring. Especially
considering that there are very few open times at Alpenrose already that
people that work day jobs can attend; a new series would take valuable track
time away from everyone else.

-Per

>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>To: "Per Bjesse"
, cyclonut@yahoo.com,
>obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Pursuits Tonight at Alpenrose
>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:27:22 +0000
>
>The night is for Masters and Juniors. Generally, over the last year or
>two, it was decided that Masters men started at 40. Sorry you are not old
>enough. It is a terrible problem that with luck will corect itself over
>time.
>
>As for the women, Steve in his wisdom probably decided to lower the age to
>get more women. Be thankful Steve takes the time to have a tuesday night
>race. Without his effort, there would be no night for juniors and old
>folks.
>
>Also, if you want more pursuits, put some on and stop complaining. I would
>love to see more pursuits, so please tell me when you are scheduling your
>pursuit series. We all will attend.
>
>
>
>--
>
>George Schreck
>gschreckchat@comcast.net
>(503) 502-0425
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Per Bjesse"

>
> > I do not understand why you changed the format of your series to exclude
> > 30-35 men. In fact, take someone like me that are planning their whole
> > season around the pursuit at master's nationals (I can't go to nationals
> > until next year due to citizenship issues). As I have race age 34 I can
>now
> > do exactly two 3ks at Alpenrose this year. If the purpose of your series
>is
> > to promote master's racing all the way from the grass roots to the
>highest
> > level, I would have thought that you would be inclusive rather than
> > exclusive.
> >
> > It also seems odd that the cutoff is 30 for women and higher for men. If
> > your concern is that 30-35 men somehow is more prone to crashing, then
>you
> > could allow 30-35 men for timed events only. If on the other hand the
> > concern is that the 30-35 group is too fast, then score 30-35 separately
> > from the other categories (or time us but don't publish the time in the
> > offical results).
> >
> > Regards,
> > -Per
> >
> >
> > >From: steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser
> > >To: OBRA
> > >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Pursuits Tonight at Alpenrose
> > >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Tonight is Pursuit Night at
> > > Tuesday Night Juniors and Masters Track Racing
> > > at Alpenrose Velodrome
> > >
> > > Open to all Juniors, Masters Women(30+)
> > > and Masters Men(35+)
> > >
> > > Distances are: Women and Men 50+ 2K
> > > Men 35+ 3K
> > >
> > > Remember that helmets and an OBRA license are required. You can get a
> > >license at registration which opens at 5:30. Racing starts at 6:30.
> > > Rental bikes are available for $5 (jrs=$0)
> > > Registration is $10 (jrs=$0)
> > >
> > > See you at the track!
> >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >OBRA mailing list
> > >obra@list.obra.org
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
> > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 227-2530
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

Per Bjesse

Mark, George: First of all, I appreciate the effort that Steve puts into
putting on his series. In fact, I find it cool enough that I wish it could
benefit more people than it currently does.

As for your specific proposal: To me it does not make sense to have two
masters track series on separate nights rather than have the three to five
30-35 yr olds that may be interested in Master's length timed events be
allowed to race the existing one with separate scoring. Especially
considering that there are very few open times at Alpenrose already that
people that work day jobs can attend; a new series would take valuable track
time away from everyone else.

-Per

>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>To: "Per Bjesse" , cyclonut@yahoo.com,
>obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Pursuits Tonight at Alpenrose
>Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 15:27:22 +0000
>
>The night is for Masters and Juniors. Generally, over the last year or
>two, it was decided that Masters men started at 40. Sorry you are not old
>enough. It is a terrible problem that with luck will corect itself over
>time.
>
>As for the women, Steve in his wisdom probably decided to lower the age to
>get more women. Be thankful Steve takes the time to have a tuesday night
>race. Without his effort, there would be no night for juniors and old
>folks.
>
>Also, if you want more pursuits, put some on and stop complaining. I would
>love to see more pursuits, so please tell me when you are scheduling your
>pursuit series. We all will attend.
>
>
>
>--
>
>George Schreck
>gschreckchat@comcast.net
>(503) 502-0425
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Per Bjesse"
>
> > I do not understand why you changed the format of your series to exclude
> > 30-35 men. In fact, take someone like me that are planning their whole
> > season around the pursuit at master's nationals (I can't go to nationals
> > until next year due to citizenship issues). As I have race age 34 I can
>now
> > do exactly two 3ks at Alpenrose this year. If the purpose of your series
>is
> > to promote master's racing all the way from the grass roots to the
>highest
> > level, I would have thought that you would be inclusive rather than
> > exclusive.
> >
> > It also seems odd that the cutoff is 30 for women and higher for men. If
> > your concern is that 30-35 men somehow is more prone to crashing, then
>you
> > could allow 30-35 men for timed events only. If on the other hand the
> > concern is that the 30-35 group is too fast, then score 30-35 separately
> > from the other categories (or time us but don't publish the time in the
> > offical results).
> >
> > Regards,
> > -Per
> >
> >
> > >From: steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser
> > >To: OBRA
> > >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Pursuits Tonight at Alpenrose
> > >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Tonight is Pursuit Night at
> > > Tuesday Night Juniors and Masters Track Racing
> > > at Alpenrose Velodrome
> > >
> > > Open to all Juniors, Masters Women(30+)
> > > and Masters Men(35+)
> > >
> > > Distances are: Women and Men 50+ 2K
> > > Men 35+ 3K
> > >
> > > Remember that helmets and an OBRA license are required. You can get a
> > >license at registration which opens at 5:30. Racing starts at 6:30.
> > > Rental bikes are available for $5 (jrs=$0)
> > > Registration is $10 (jrs=$0)
> > >
> > > See you at the track!
> >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >OBRA mailing list
> > >obra@list.obra.org
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
> > http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more!
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gschreckchat@comcast.net

The night is for Masters and Juniors. Generally, over the last year or two, it was decided that Masters men started at 40. Sorry you are not old enough. It is a terrible problem that with luck will corect itself over time.

As for the women, Steve in his wisdom probably decided to lower the age to get more women. Be thankful Steve takes the time to have a tuesday night race. Without his effort, there would be no night for juniors and old folks.

Also, if you want more pursuits, put some on and stop complaining. I would love to see more pursuits, so please tell me when you are scheduling your pursuit series. We all will attend.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Per Bjesse"

> I do not understand why you changed the format of your series to exclude
> 30-35 men. In fact, take someone like me that are planning their whole
> season around the pursuit at master's nationals (I can't go to nationals
> until next year due to citizenship issues). As I have race age 34 I can now
> do exactly two 3ks at Alpenrose this year. If the purpose of your series is
> to promote master's racing all the way from the grass roots to the highest
> level, I would have thought that you would be inclusive rather than
> exclusive.
>
> It also seems odd that the cutoff is 30 for women and higher for men. If
> your concern is that 30-35 men somehow is more prone to crashing, then you
> could allow 30-35 men for timed events only. If on the other hand the
> concern is that the 30-35 group is too fast, then score 30-35 separately
> from the other categories (or time us but don't publish the time in the
> offical results).
>
> Regards,
> -Per
>
>
> >From: steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser
> >To: OBRA
> >Subject: [OBRA Chat] Pursuits Tonight at Alpenrose
> >Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Tonight is Pursuit Night at
> > Tuesday Night Juniors and Masters Track Racing
> > at Alpenrose Velodrome
> >
> > Open to all Juniors, Masters Women(30+)
> > and Masters Men(35+)
> >
> > Distances are: Women and Men 50+ 2K
> > Men 35+ 3K
> >
> > Remember that helmets and an OBRA license are required. You can get a
> >license at registration which opens at 5:30. Racing starts at 6:30.
> > Rental bikes are available for $5 (jrs=$0)
> > Registration is $10 (jrs=$0)
> >
> > See you at the track!
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
> http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark Magilner

I need to defend Steve here. He puts in a huge effort to get the less represented folks to ride out at the track. This includes the "kids on track" program and the Tuesday series, plus helping out on Thursdays.

Running an event at the track is no picnic. Alot gets done before the racers arrive and after the racers leave, not to mention worrying about the notoriously fickle weather. He does not need folks whining in public about his events.

When YOU decide to run an event or a series at the track, YOU may choose whatever age groups or categories or distances you want.

'Nuf said,
Mark

Date: 06/12/2007 03:13 PM
From: Per Bjesse
I do not understand why you changed the format of your series to exclude
30-35 men. In fact, take someone like me that are planning their whole
season around the pursuit at master's nationals (I can't go to nationals
until next year due to citizenship issues). As I have race age 34 I can now
do exactly two 3ks at Alpenrose this year. If the purpose of your series is
to promote master's racing all the way from the grass roots to the highest
level, I would have thought that you would be inclusive rather than
exclusive.

It also seems odd that the cutoff is 30 for women and higher for men. If
your concern is that 30-35 men somehow is more prone to crashing, then you
could allow 30-35 men for timed events only. If on the other hand the
concern is that the 30-35 group is too fast, then score 30-35 separately
from the other categories (or time us but don't publish the time in the
offical results).

Regards,
-Per

Per Bjesse

I do not understand why you changed the format of your series to exclude
30-35 men. In fact, take someone like me that are planning their whole
season around the pursuit at master's nationals (I can't go to nationals
until next year due to citizenship issues). As I have race age 34 I can now
do exactly two 3ks at Alpenrose this year. If the purpose of your series is
to promote master's racing all the way from the grass roots to the highest
level, I would have thought that you would be inclusive rather than
exclusive.

It also seems odd that the cutoff is 30 for women and higher for men. If
your concern is that 30-35 men somehow is more prone to crashing, then you
could allow 30-35 men for timed events only. If on the other hand the
concern is that the 30-35 group is too fast, then score 30-35 separately
from the other categories (or time us but don't publish the time in the
offical results).

Regards,
-Per

>From: steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser
>To: OBRA
>Subject: [OBRA Chat] Pursuits Tonight at Alpenrose
>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:55:54 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Tonight is Pursuit Night at
> Tuesday Night Juniors and Masters Track Racing
> at Alpenrose Velodrome
>
> Open to all Juniors, Masters Women(30+)
> and Masters Men(35+)
>
> Distances are: Women and Men 50+ 2K
> Men 35+ 3K
>
> Remember that helmets and an OBRA license are required. You can get a
>license at registration which opens at 5:30. Racing starts at 6:30.
> Rental bikes are available for $5 (jrs=$0)
> Registration is $10 (jrs=$0)
>
> See you at the track!

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN
http://liveearth.msn.com?source=msntaglineliveearthhm

steve truesdale-Digital DJ Ser

Tonight is Pursuit Night at
Tuesday Night Juniors and Masters Track Racing
at Alpenrose Velodrome

Open to all Juniors, Masters Women(30+)
and Masters Men(35+)

Distances are: Women and Men 50+ 2K
Men 35+ 3K

Remember that helmets and an OBRA license are required. You can get a license at registration which opens at 5:30. Racing starts at 6:30.
Rental bikes are available for $5 (jrs=$0)
Registration is $10 (jrs=$0)

See you at the track!