Doug Hormann

Courtesy, integrity and professionalism will always be the lingua franca of
policing. When we lose sight of that we lose the basis from which our
authority as police officers extends.

Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
Behalf Of Thomas Hoffman
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 10:24 PM
To: 'Ron and Dorothy Strasser'; 'david baker'; 'Jess Mace';
cycleone23@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org; montyh@tvapdx.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in
WashingtonCounty

" I can't believe this is a "chief" of other officers"
He is chief of THE OTHER officer

Thomas Hoffman
RE/MAX equity group
503-495-5607 Direct
503-475-3417 Cell
www.tomshometeam.com
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ron and Dorothy Strasser
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:55 PM
To: david baker; Jess Mace; cycleone23@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org;
montyh@tvapdx.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in
WashingtonCounty

Even if Jess ranted and raved about this and that.... That officer needs to
be more in control than a response like that if in fact that is the exact
response. Officers know that they need to maintain control of their
emotions (Doug H. You could explain how this helps keep situations from
escalating etc) when dealing with "official business". This response is
180* from that type of professional behavior. If this is real... I can't
believe this is is a "chief" of other officers. Sounds like a real positive

work environment!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "david baker"
To: "Jess Mace" ; ;
;
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in
WashingtonCounty

> Jess,
> I would like it if you e-mailed us a copy of the e-mail you sent to Mr.
> whitehead.
> I do not think public employees should be talking that way to the public
> but
> I need to know what he was replying to for me to understand this.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jess Mace"
> To: ; ;
> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in Washington
> County
>
>
>>I wrote Scott Whitehead, Chief of Police in North Plains, with my
>> concerns (kindly stated) about the subject while thanking him for his
>> service the community at large...
>>
>> this is his reply:
>>
>> Mr. Mace,
>>
>> Thanks for writing. As usual your email is consistent with all the
>> others I
>> receive. Maybe next time you could put some thought into it and make a
>> valid
>> point instead of all the blah blah blah crap.
>>
>> Scott Whitehead
>> Chief of Police
>> North Plains Police Department
>> Office: (503) 647.2604
>> Fax: (503) 647.2031
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the mentality speaks for itself...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jess C. Mace
>> Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
>> for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
>> Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
>> Oregon Health & Science University
>> 503.494.5886
>>
>>>>> "J.Michael Manning" 7/6/2007 3:21 PM >>>
>> One of the most important facts of the road is... not that we have
>> almost equal access by law. It is the fact that we have to deal with the
>> perception of cyclists by uninformed motorists, even if it is flawed.
>> Defensive cycling is a must. I am personally a bit aggressive on the
>> road, establishing my presence in a way that does not break the law, but
>> probably pisses a few drivers off, because I may make them slow down and
>> go around me. I spent 10 years commuting in heavy traffic for 1.5 hours
>> a day in an area that had never heard of bike racing. In those cases you
>> learn how to defend yourself. Admittedly, there is no fail safe method,
>> as I was struck by a hit and run driver 6 years ago and feel fortunate
>> to have lived through the ordeal. In that case, I was riding with 2
>> others in a single pace line in the rain as the sun was setting and
>> visibility was questionable. So I was trying to stay close to the
>> shoulder. Possibly a mistake, but who can say. Anyway...I ramble. To
>> illustrate my point, 3 of my friends were cycling this weekend and were
>> nearly wiped out by an elderly woman who decided to pass them in a
>> residential area. As she accelerated by them, she blew a stop sign on
>> Bethany Blvd and was broadsided by a pickup. When she emerged from her
>> vehicle she tried to blame the cyclists for causing the accident. Her
>> perception caused her to break the law because she was not focused on
>> driving safely, but rather on getting by these annoying cyclists. That's
>> the reality I am talking about.Mike Manning> From: montyh@tvapdx.com>
>> To: obra@list.obra.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 08:10:35 -0700> Subject:
>> Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists
>> in Washington County> > "You're a friggin' cyclist
>> man, it must be your fault."> > -----Original Message-----> From:
>> obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
>> Of Steve Brown> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:52 AM> To: Greg Crane> Cc:
>> obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against
>> cyclists in Washington County> > Suggest the ride be moved to West Linn
>> were traffic laws are not> enforced. I was struck by a car last week
>> making a right turn while> I was in a bike lane. Police and Fire
>> responded to witness calls,> crash report written, no citation issued.>
>>> Steve Brown> On Jul 5, 2007, at 8:50 PM, Greg Crane wrote:> > > Boy do
>> I feel safer now that the cops are cracking> > down on cyclist. I was
>> almost killed just the other> > day in my Xtera by a cyclist not
>> following the rules> > of the road.> >> > Lucky for me I was doing 15
>> over the speed limit and> > was able to get out of the very dangerous
>> situation I> > was placed in by a thoughtless person on a bicycle.> >> >
>> Greg> > --- Mike Manning wrote:> >> >> Just
>> thought I should forward this message on to the> >> rest of you.> >>
>> Mike Manning> >>> >> Fellow Cyclists- FYI, on a note I received from a>
>>>> Tri-athlete who rolls in our neighborhood!> >>> >> Part of a group I
>> was riding with yesterday was> >> ticketed $335 apiece for rolling
>> though the stop> >> signs at the intersection of North Plains Rd and> >>
>> Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains> >> PD has stepped
>> up ticketing cyclists in the area> >> since the rider was killed a few
>> weeks ago. Beware.> >>> >> Lindsay Kandra> >> Portland TriClub> >>
>> _______________________________________________> >> OBRA mailing list>
>>>> obra@list.obra.org> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> >>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> ______________________________________________________________________>
>>> ______________> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?> > Check out fitting
>> gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search> >
>> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz>
>>> _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list>
>>> obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> >
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> >> >
>> _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list>
>> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org>
>> _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list>
>> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
>> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlmailtextlink
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

david baker

Jess,
I am getting e-mails for the text.
so here it is
Police Chief Scott Whitehead-
>>>
>>> Your contact information has been now passed onto about 5000 local
>>> cyclists in the general Portland area via the OBRA website. These
>> are
>>> the folks most genuinely affected by
>>> local traffic enforcement policies in the general PDX area as we
> are
>>> those using the roads to ride and train on an almost daily basis.
>>>
>>> It was brought to our attention that a local officer or junior
>> officer
>>> in North Plains was recently ticketing cyclists in excess of $300
>> for
>>> failure to obey a traffic stop. I hope you are
>>> reminding your officers or junior officers of that FACT that
>> cyclists
>>> are not killed on your roadways 100% of the time due to their own
>>> failures to obey traffic signals. Yes, that is one of the reasons
>>> but typically it is the fault of a wreckless, careless,
inattentive
>>> driver that brings about these injuries and fatalities. I hope
>> you
>>> are considering the same monetary punishment and fine structures
>>> for vehicles targeted for the same offenses.
>>>
>>> The actions of one of your officers has huge implications towards
>> how
>>> your community is perceived and treated by those outside of the
>>> community. We all appreciate your efforts to reduce crime or the
>> fear
>>> of crime, but how is ticketing cyclists accomplishing the above
>> goal?
>>> Is vehicular homocide not more "fearful" to the eyes of the
average
>>> human than running a stop sign? Yet, the fee structure for both
>> crimes
>>> appears equal....I hope you have an inherent understanding of that
>>> logic or lack thereof.
>>>
>>> I don't live in your jurisdiction and I never will...I have spent
>> time
>>> and $$ in North Plains in the past, but will no longer be doing so
>> since
>>> the community at large apparently values my life
>>> when I ride/train less than a wreckless driver who can kill
someone
>>> with impunity.
>>>
>>> I understand that cyclists are responsible for obeying traffic
> signs
>> if
>>> they want to be treated at equally and legally protected under the
>> law.
>>> The transgression comes with the fact that
>>> people who cause vehicular manslaughter are apparently and
> obversely
>>> protected from greater punishment.
>>>
>>> If your plan is to rid North Plains of people who use the road for
>>> exercise and have a legal right to do so, you are well on your
way.
>
>> We
>>> all appreciate the efforts of every police force
>>> in the general PDX area, we truly do. But the community is
feeling
>>> VERY slighted lately due to the lack of punishment handed to
>> careless
>>> drivers after the kill another human being.
>
>
> Jess C. Mace
> Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
> for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
> Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
> Oregon Health & Science University
> 503.494.5886

----- Original Message -----
From: "david baker"
To: "Jess Mace" ; ;
;
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in
WashingtonCounty

> Jess,
> I would like it if you e-mailed us a copy of the e-mail you sent to Mr.
> whitehead.
> I do not think public employees should be talking that way to the public
> but
> I need to know what he was replying to for me to understand this.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jess Mace"
> To: ; ;
> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in Washington
> County
>
>
>>I wrote Scott Whitehead, Chief of Police in North Plains, with my
>> concerns (kindly stated) about the subject while thanking him for his
>> service the community at large...
>>
>> this is his reply:
>>
>> Mr. Mace,
>>
>> Thanks for writing. As usual your email is consistent with all the
>> others I
>> receive. Maybe next time you could put some thought into it and make a
>> valid
>> point instead of all the blah blah blah crap.
>>
>> Scott Whitehead
>> Chief of Police
>> North Plains Police Department
>> Office: (503) 647.2604
>> Fax: (503) 647.2031
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the mentality speaks for itself...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jess C. Mace
>> Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
>> for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
>> Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
>> Oregon Health & Science University
>> 503.494.5886
>>
>>>>> "J.Michael Manning" 7/6/2007 3:21 PM >>>
>> One of the most important facts of the road is... not that we have
>> almost equal access by law. It is the fact that we have to deal with the
>> perception of cyclists by uninformed motorists, even if it is flawed.
>> Defensive cycling is a must. I am personally a bit aggressive on the
>> road, establishing my presence in a way that does not break the law, but
>> probably pisses a few drivers off, because I may make them slow down and
>> go around me. I spent 10 years commuting in heavy traffic for 1.5 hours
>> a day in an area that had never heard of bike racing. In those cases you
>> learn how to defend yourself. Admittedly, there is no fail safe method,
>> as I was struck by a hit and run driver 6 years ago and feel fortunate
>> to have lived through the ordeal. In that case, I was riding with 2
>> others in a single pace line in the rain as the sun was setting and
>> visibility was questionable. So I was trying to stay close to the
>> shoulder. Possibly a mistake, but who can say. Anyway...I ramble. To
>> illustrate my point, 3 of my friends were cycling this weekend and were
>> nearly wiped out by an elderly woman who decided to pass them in a
>> residential area. As she accelerated by them, she blew a stop sign on
>> Bethany Blvd and was broadsided by a pickup. When she emerged from her
>> vehicle she tried to blame the cyclists for causing the accident. Her
>> perception caused her to break the law because she was not focused on
>> driving safely, but rather on getting by these annoying cyclists. That's
>> the reality I am talking about.Mike Manning> From: montyh@tvapdx.com>
>> To: obra@list.obra.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 08:10:35 -0700> Subject:
>> Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists
>> in Washington County> > "You're a friggin' cyclist
>> man, it must be your fault."> > -----Original Message-----> From:
>> obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
>> Of Steve Brown> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:52 AM> To: Greg Crane> Cc:
>> obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against
>> cyclists in Washington County> > Suggest the ride be moved to West Linn
>> were traffic laws are not> enforced. I was struck by a car last week
>> making a right turn while> I was in a bike lane. Police and Fire
>> responded to witness calls,> crash report written, no citation issued.>
>>> Steve Brown> On Jul 5, 2007, at 8:50 PM, Greg Crane wrote:> > > Boy do
>> I feel safer now that the cops are cracking> > down on cyclist. I was
>> almost killed just the other> > day in my Xtera by a cyclist not
>> following the rules> > of the road.> >> > Lucky for me I was doing 15
>> over the speed limit and> > was able to get out of the very dangerous
>> situation I> > was placed in by a thoughtless person on a bicycle.> >> >
>> Greg> > --- Mike Manning wrote:> >> >> Just
>> thought I should forward this message on to the> >> rest of you.> >>
>> Mike Manning> >>> >> Fellow Cyclists- FYI, on a note I received from a>
>>>> Tri-athlete who rolls in our neighborhood!> >>> >> Part of a group I
>> was riding with yesterday was> >> ticketed $335 apiece for rolling
>> though the stop> >> signs at the intersection of North Plains Rd and> >>
>> Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains> >> PD has stepped
>> up ticketing cyclists in the area> >> since the rider was killed a few
>> weeks ago. Beware.> >>> >> Lindsay Kandra> >> Portland TriClub> >>
>> _______________________________________________> >> OBRA mailing list>
>>>> obra@list.obra.org> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> >>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> ______________________________________________________________________>
>>> ______________> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?> > Check out fitting
>> gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search> >
>> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz>
>>> _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list>
>>> obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> >
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> >> >
>> _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list>
>> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org>
>> _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list>
>> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
>> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlmailtextlink
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Thomas Hoffman

" I can't believe this is a "chief" of other officers"
He is chief of THE OTHER officer

Thomas Hoffman
RE/MAX equity group
503-495-5607 Direct
503-475-3417 Cell
www.tomshometeam.com
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ron and Dorothy Strasser
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:55 PM
To: david baker; Jess Mace; cycleone23@hotmail.com; obra@list.obra.org;
montyh@tvapdx.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in
WashingtonCounty

Even if Jess ranted and raved about this and that.... That officer needs to
be more in control than a response like that if in fact that is the exact
response. Officers know that they need to maintain control of their
emotions (Doug H. You could explain how this helps keep situations from
escalating etc) when dealing with "official business". This response is
180* from that type of professional behavior. If this is real... I can't
believe this is is a "chief" of other officers. Sounds like a real positive

work environment!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "david baker"
To: "Jess Mace" ; ;
;
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in
WashingtonCounty

> Jess,
> I would like it if you e-mailed us a copy of the e-mail you sent to Mr.
> whitehead.
> I do not think public employees should be talking that way to the public
> but
> I need to know what he was replying to for me to understand this.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jess Mace"
> To: ; ;
> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in Washington
> County
>
>
>>I wrote Scott Whitehead, Chief of Police in North Plains, with my
>> concerns (kindly stated) about the subject while thanking him for his
>> service the community at large...
>>
>> this is his reply:
>>
>> Mr. Mace,
>>
>> Thanks for writing. As usual your email is consistent with all the
>> others I
>> receive. Maybe next time you could put some thought into it and make a
>> valid
>> point instead of all the blah blah blah crap.
>>
>> Scott Whitehead
>> Chief of Police
>> North Plains Police Department
>> Office: (503) 647.2604
>> Fax: (503) 647.2031
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the mentality speaks for itself...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jess C. Mace
>> Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
>> for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
>> Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
>> Oregon Health & Science University
>> 503.494.5886
>>
>>>>> "J.Michael Manning" 7/6/2007 3:21 PM >>>
>> One of the most important facts of the road is... not that we have
>> almost equal access by law. It is the fact that we have to deal with the
>> perception of cyclists by uninformed motorists, even if it is flawed.
>> Defensive cycling is a must. I am personally a bit aggressive on the
>> road, establishing my presence in a way that does not break the law, but
>> probably pisses a few drivers off, because I may make them slow down and
>> go around me. I spent 10 years commuting in heavy traffic for 1.5 hours
>> a day in an area that had never heard of bike racing. In those cases you
>> learn how to defend yourself. Admittedly, there is no fail safe method,
>> as I was struck by a hit and run driver 6 years ago and feel fortunate
>> to have lived through the ordeal. In that case, I was riding with 2
>> others in a single pace line in the rain as the sun was setting and
>> visibility was questionable. So I was trying to stay close to the
>> shoulder. Possibly a mistake, but who can say. Anyway...I ramble. To
>> illustrate my point, 3 of my friends were cycling this weekend and were
>> nearly wiped out by an elderly woman who decided to pass them in a
>> residential area. As she accelerated by them, she blew a stop sign on
>> Bethany Blvd and was broadsided by a pickup. When she emerged from her
>> vehicle she tried to blame the cyclists for causing the accident. Her
>> perception caused her to break the law because she was not focused on
>> driving safely, but rather on getting by these annoying cyclists. That's
>> the reality I am talking about.Mike Manning> From: montyh@tvapdx.com>
>> To: obra@list.obra.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 08:10:35 -0700> Subject:
>> Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists
>> in Washington County> > "You're a friggin' cyclist
>> man, it must be your fault."> > -----Original Message-----> From:
>> obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
>> Of Steve Brown> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:52 AM> To: Greg Crane> Cc:
>> obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against
>> cyclists in Washington County> > Suggest the ride be moved to West Linn
>> were traffic laws are not> enforced. I was struck by a car last week
>> making a right turn while> I was in a bike lane. Police and Fire
>> responded to witness calls,> crash report written, no citation issued.>
>>> Steve Brown> On Jul 5, 2007, at 8:50 PM, Greg Crane wrote:> > > Boy do
>> I feel safer now that the cops are cracking> > down on cyclist. I was
>> almost killed just the other> > day in my Xtera by a cyclist not
>> following the rules> > of the road.> >> > Lucky for me I was doing 15
>> over the speed limit and> > was able to get out of the very dangerous
>> situation I> > was placed in by a thoughtless person on a bicycle.> >> >
>> Greg> > --- Mike Manning wrote:> >> >> Just
>> thought I should forward this message on to the> >> rest of you.> >>
>> Mike Manning> >>> >> Fellow Cyclists- FYI, on a note I received from a>
>>>> Tri-athlete who rolls in our neighborhood!> >>> >> Part of a group I
>> was riding with yesterday was> >> ticketed $335 apiece for rolling
>> though the stop> >> signs at the intersection of North Plains Rd and> >>
>> Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains> >> PD has stepped
>> up ticketing cyclists in the area> >> since the rider was killed a few
>> weeks ago. Beware.> >>> >> Lindsay Kandra> >> Portland TriClub> >>
>> _______________________________________________> >> OBRA mailing list>
>>>> obra@list.obra.org> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> >>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> ______________________________________________________________________>
>>> ______________> > Luggage? GPS? Comic books?> > Check out fitting
>> gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search> >
>> http://search.yahoo.com/search?fr=oni_on_mail&p=graduation+gifts&cs=bz>
>>> _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list>
>>> obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> >
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> >> >
>> _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list>
>> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org>
>> _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list>
>> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
>> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_wlmailtextlink
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Even if Jess ranted and raved about this and that.... That officer needs to
be more in control than a response like that if in fact that is the exact
response. Officers know that they need to maintain control of their
emotions (Doug H. You could explain how this helps keep situations from
escalating etc) when dealing with "official business". This response is
180* from that type of professional behavior. If this is real... I can't
believe this is is a "chief" of other officers. Sounds like a real positive
work environment!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "david baker"
To: "Jess Mace" ; ;
;
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 4:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in
WashingtonCounty

> Jess,
> I would like it if you e-mailed us a copy of the e-mail you sent to Mr.
> whitehead.
> I do not think public employees should be talking that way to the public
> but
> I need to know what he was replying to for me to understand this.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jess Mace"
> To: ; ;
> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 3:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in Washington
> County
>
>
>>I wrote Scott Whitehead, Chief of Police in North Plains, with my
>> concerns (kindly stated) about the subject while thanking him for his
>> service the community at large...
>>
>> this is his reply:
>>
>> Mr. Mace,
>>
>> Thanks for writing. As usual your email is consistent with all the
>> others I
>> receive. Maybe next time you could put some thought into it and make a
>> valid
>> point instead of all the blah blah blah crap.
>>
>> Scott Whitehead
>> Chief of Police
>> North Plains Police Department
>> Office: (503) 647.2604
>> Fax: (503) 647.2031
>>
>>
>>
>> I think the mentality speaks for itself...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jess C. Mace
>> Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
>> for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
>> Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
>> Oregon Health & Science University
>> 503.494.5886
>>
>>>>> "J.Michael Manning" 7/6/2007 3:21 PM >>>
>> One of the most important facts of the road is... not that we have
>> almost equal access by law. It is the fact that we have to deal with the
>> perception of cyclists by uninformed motorists, even if it is flawed.
>> Defensive cycling is a must. I am personally a bit aggressive on the
>> road, establishing my presence in a way that does not break the law, but
>> probably pisses a few drivers off, because I may make them slow down and
>> go around me. I spent 10 years commuting in heavy traffic for 1.5 hours
>> a day in an area that had never heard of bike racing. In those cases you
>> learn how to defend yourself. Admittedly, there is no fail safe method,
>> as I was struck by a hit and run driver 6 years ago and feel fortunate
>> to have lived through the ordeal. In that case, I was riding with 2
>> others in a single pace line in the rain as the sun was setting and
>> visibility was questionable. So I was trying to stay close to the
>> shoulder. Possibly a mistake, but who can say. Anyway...I ramble. To
>> illustrate my point, 3 of my friends were cycling this weekend and were
>> nearly wiped out by an elderly woman who decided to pass them in a
>> residential area. As she accelerated by them, she blew a stop sign on
>> Bethany Blvd and was broadsided by a pickup. When she emerged from her
>> vehicle she tried to blame the cyclists for causing the accident. Her
>> perception caused her to break the law because she was not focused on
>> driving safely, but rather on getting by these annoying cyclists. That's
>> the reality I am talking about.Mike Manning> From: montyh@tvapdx.com>
>> To: obra@list.obra.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 08:10:35 -0700> Subject:
>> Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists
>> in Washington County> > "You're a friggin' cyclist
>> man, it must be your fault."> > -----Original Message-----> From:
>> obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
>> Of Steve Brown> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 7:52 AM> To: Greg Crane> Cc:
>> obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against
>> cyclists in Washington County> > Suggest the ride be moved to West Linn
>> were traffic laws are not> enforced. I was struck by a car last week
>> making a right turn while> I was in a bike lane. Police and Fire
>> responded to witness calls,> crash report written, no citation issued.>
>>> Steve Brown> On Jul 5, 2007, at 8:50 PM, Greg Crane wrote:> > > Boy do
>> I feel safer now that the cops are cracking> > down on cyclist. I was
>> almost killed just the other> > day in my Xtera by a cyclist not
>> following the rules> > of the road.> >> > Lucky for me I was doing 15
>> over the speed limit and> > was able to get out of the very dangerous
>> situation I> > was placed in by a thoughtless person on a bicycle.> >> >
>> Greg> > --- Mike Manning wrote:> >> >> Just
>> thought I should forward this message on to the> >> rest of you.> >>
>> Mike Manning> >>> >> Fellow Cyclists- FYI, on a note I received from a>
>>>> Tri-athlete who rolls in our neighborhood!> >>> >> Part of a group I
>> was riding with yesterday was> >> ticketed $335 apiece for rolling
>> though the stop> >> signs at the intersection of North Plains Rd and> >>
>> Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains> >> PD has stepped
>> up ticketing cyclists in the area> >> since the rider was killed a few
>> weeks ago. Beware.> >>> >> Lindsay Kandra> >> Portland TriClub> >>
>> _______________________________________________> >> OBRA mailing list>
>>>> obra@list.obra.org> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> >>
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> >>> >> >> >> >> >
>> ______________________________________________________________________>
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Tim Schauer

Wow!!

Today.....I was part of a three man group who also got $335 tickets apiece for "in the officer's opinion" ignoring the 5-way stop. I disagree. We did not ignore it. Early this morning in route to the coast by bike, we were heading west and rolled up the intersection and slowed to less than a walking pace, looking both ways. No cars, no bikes, no peds in sight. I did not track stand. I did not put my foot down. He has a point that we may not have performed a perfect stop. But this version of a stop was not unlike what I do in my car every day. I feel that had I been in my car it would have seemed reasonable to debate it a little more at the time. My point is not to argue the technicality of my "stop" or lack there of. But the reasonableness of the fine and strange view that this will help contribute to reducing the bicycle/car fatalities in Washington County given that our experience with the officer in North Plains was similar to the one described. We were told during our stop before getting tickets, that there had been a lot of bicycle/vehicle fatalities out in this area and a lot of bicyclist activists groups and bicyclists have been complaining that cars need to share the road. And that these activists want bicyclists to be treated as equals with equal right to the road. And, that if we want to be equal we are going to have to find a better way. Independently, these statements have validity. But how are they appropriate to our infraction? It was like this was a plain and simple message. Equal meant a new heightened attention to bicyclist traffic infractions and much steeper fines.

At first, we were all feeling embarrassed about being pulled over and stopped. Feeling guilty for bringing shame to our culture and all. What we were shocked at was the lecture about bicyclist activist politics and the amount of the fine. $335??? My impression was that we were being informed that this an attempt to solve some of these bicycle/vehicle fatalities. What??? I felt as if we were being told that cyclists need to change to prevent these fatalities. Huh???? What??? Were these recent fatalities the bicyclists fault? I guess in some way it might reduce the conflicts of bicyclists and cars in North Plains, in that maybe fewer bicyclists ride through their town. I will certainly consider an alternate route next time.

During the rest of our ride to the coast we discussed amongst ourselves the $1005 in fines we were levied with compared to the $1100 in fines levied against the driver who hit and killed the cyclist recently. Do those two incidents seem remotely comparable? It truly is a strange world sometimes....It turns out to have been an expensive lesson in traffic regulations, politics, and that the divide between many drivers and cyclists looks to be a tough bridge for either side to make anytime soon....

-Tim Schauer

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Greg Crane
Sent: Thu 7/5/2007 8:50 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Hefty fines levied against cyclists in WashingtonCounty

Boy do I feel safer now that the cops are cracking
down on cyclist. I was almost killed just the other
day in my Xtera by a cyclist not following the rules
of the road.

Lucky for me I was doing 15 over the speed limit and
was able to get out of the very dangerous situation I
was placed in by a thoughtless person on a bicycle.

Greg
--- Mike Manning wrote:

> Just thought I should forward this message on to the
> rest of you.
> Mike Manning
>
> Fellow Cyclists- FYI, on a note I received from a
> Tri-athlete who rolls in our neighborhood!
>
> Part of a group I was riding with yesterday was
> ticketed $335 apiece for rolling though the stop
> signs at the intersection of North Plains Rd and
> Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains
> PD has stepped up ticketing cyclists in the area
> since the rider was killed a few weeks ago. Beware.
>
> Lindsay Kandra
> Portland TriClub
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

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