Cyclists Ticketed in North Plains

gschreckchat@comcast.net

2007-07-09

Excellent idea. Keep going, get arrested for resisting arest and fleeing the scene, and spend the night in jail. Have it all on your record. That will show them.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Edward Kendrick Sr

It's amazing that the people are willing to honor such goings-on. Don't stop for these cops. Don't give your name or accept a ticket.

Would you stop for the "red-coats?" A gov't that behaves this way has made itself illegitimate.

Kristin wrote:
I got one as well during the infamous Salmon sting...I plead not
guilty and showed up to court; my ticket was changed to a pedestrian
violation (won't be on my driving record now) and the fine was brought
down to around $100 instead of 250.

Kristin

On 7/8/07, David Oliphant wrote:
>
>
> I got a ticket rolling a stop sign earlier this year. If you get one....do
> the following:
>
> 1) Plead not guilty
> 2) Get a court date
> 3) Go to court and plead your case (I did...the judge threw out the fine)
> 4) If found guilty (like I was) - ask the judge to record the ticket as a
> bicycle infraction. Reason: If you don't...it can be recorded DMV record as
> a moving violation.
>
> The good thing for me...no fine ($244 ticket originally)...I was found
> guilty for not stopping (but, DMV does not recognize bicycle infraction on
> your
> driving record).
>
> Bottomline....the whole thing is a big 'goat rodeo' and money maker for the
> city / county.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Kendrick Sr
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
>
>
> We are in the paradigm of the automobile. As long as that is true, bicycle
> riders should always be judged as innocent, even if they do something
> unreasonable. Yes, global warming and such has made this true.
>
> $225 & $335. Hmmm. That's like having a cop force you to strip naked and
> dance the macarena. Why not simply ignore the writhings of this policeman
> and the ticket?
>
> Is this a symptom of a civil disobedience shortage?
>
>
>
> "J.Michael Manning" wrote:
>
> I agree with you, George. But why put yourself in a situation where the
> officer writing the ticket is allowed to make a "judgement" call?
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; junk@sharperphoto.com;
> obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:14:34 +0000
>
>
> You do not have to put your foot down. We have this discussion every six
> months.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: J.Michael Manning
>
> Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the
> tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was
> obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the
> intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign.
> During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it
> was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had
> determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet
> is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow
> of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the
> point.
> Mike Manning
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> > From: elongride@hotmail.com
> > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> >
> > I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> > effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
> > if there were actually traffic to stop for.
> >
> > I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so
> I'm
> > pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
> >
> > Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> > Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
> >
> > The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
> > more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Gary Cornilles
> >
> > > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
> > we can
> > > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> > Sureley,
> > > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection
> one
> > at a
> > > time do they?
> > >
> > > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> > have
> > > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
> > I feel
> > > cheated...
> > >
> > > Are there any attorneys out ther e that can give us advice on how to
> argue
> > this
> > > type of case?
> > >
> > > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
> > a
> > > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> > should
> > > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> > spared the
> > > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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>
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>
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>
>
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>
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gschreckchat@comcast.net

2007-07-09

I disagree with your position. I know people from Guatemala and you are not well liked in Guatemala.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Greg Crane

> I use a fake (stolen) I.D. I give to the cops, I don't
> pay taxes, am in the country illegally and have a ton
> of credit card debt I will never have to pay. At
> least 11 states have warrants for my arrest and in
> Canada I am "persona non grata". I am however well
> liked in Guatemala
>
> I also race masters though my real age is 32, cross
> the center line all the time, draft in TT's and have
> long ago lost track of what I put in my body.
>
> Rules are for suckers, fight the power and stick it to
> the man. Personal responsibility is so old school.
>
> Greg
> The sarcasm in this e-mail is made with 85% recycled
> material and the bitterness is derived from a 100%
> Fair Trade, Shade Grown joyless childhood.
> --- Edward Kendrick Sr
> wrote:
>
> > It's amazing that the people are willing to honor
> > such goings-on. Don't stop for these cops. Don't
> > give your name or accept a ticket.
> >
> > Would you stop for the "red-coats?" A gov't that
> > behaves this way has made itself illegitimate.
> >
> > Kristin wrote:
> > I got one as well during the infamous Salmon
> > sting...I plead not
> > guilty and showed up to court; my ticket was changed
> > to a pedestrian
> > violation (won't be on my driving record now) and
> > the fine was brought
> > down to around $100 instead of 250.
> >
> > Kristin
> >
> > On 7/8/07, David Oliphant wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I got a ticket rolling a stop sign earlier this
> > year. If you get one....do
> > > the following:
> > >
> > > 1) Plead not guilty
> > > 2) Get a court date
> > > 3) Go to court and plead your case (I did...the
> > judge threw out the fine)
> > > 4) If found guilty (like I was) - ask the judge to
> > record the ticket as a
> > > bicycle infraction. Reason: If you don't...it can
> > be recorded DMV record as
> > > a moving violation.
> > >
> > > The good thing for me...no fine ($244 ticket
> > originally)...I was found
> > > guilty for not stopping (but, DMV does not
> > recognize bicycle infraction on
> > > your
> > > driving record).
> > >
> > > Bottomline....the whole thing is a big 'goat
> > rodeo' and money maker for the
> > > city / county.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Edward Kendrick Sr
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:18 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in
> > North Plains
> > >
> > >
> > > We are in the paradigm of the automobile. As long
> > as that is true, bicycle
> > > riders should always be judged as innocent, even
> > if they do something
> > > unreasonable. Yes, global warming and such has
> > made this true.
> > >
> > > $225 & $335. Hmmm. That's like having a cop force
> > you to strip naked and
> > > dance the macarena. Why not simply ignore the
> > writhings of this policeman
> > > and the ticket?
> > >
> > > Is this a symptom of a civil disobedience
> > shortage?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "J.Michael Manning" wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree with you, George. But why put yourself in
> > a situation where the
> > > officer writing the ticket is allowed to make a
> > "judgement" call?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com;
> > junk@sharperphoto.com;
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in
> > North Plains
> > > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:14:34 +0000
> > >
> > >
> > > You do not have to put your foot down. We have
> > this discussion every six
> > > months.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > George Schreck
> > > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > (503) 502-0425
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: J.Michael Manning
> > >
> > > Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed
> > along with 7 others at the
> > > tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection
> > in North Plains. It was
> > > obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about
> > 400 meters before the
> > > intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll
> > through the stop sign.
> > > During the course of writing 8 citations he
> > explained to all of us that it
> > > was a judgement call, that we did not have to
> > actually stop but that he had
> > > determined that we did not make sufficient effort
> > to stop. So the best bet
> > > is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't
> > like to disrupt the flow
> > > of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you
> > don't have to argue the
> > > point.
> > > Mike Manning
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > > From: elongride@hotmail.com
> > > > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net;
> > junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in
> > North Plains
> > > >
> > > > I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent
> > years that, for cyclists,
> > > > effectively made stop signs yield signs -
> > meaning that you would only stop
> > > > if there were actually traffic to stop for.
> > > >
> > > > I recall some heated debate on the obra list
> > about this at the time, so
> > > I'm
> > > > pretty sure this law existed somewhere in
> > Oregon.
> > > >
> > > > Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy
> > pills?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > > To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in
> > North Plains
> > > > Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
> > > >
> > > > The ticket is to the driver. Each of you
> > happened too be one. If you want
> > > > more value for your dollar, next time, do it on
> > a tandem.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > George Schreck
> > > > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > > (503) 502-0425
> > > >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > From: Gary Cornilles
> > > >
> > > > > I was with Tim and got one of the $335.
> > tickets. What I don't get is how
> > > > we can
> > > > > each be ticketed individually when we crossed
> > the intersection as one.
> > > > Sureley,
> > > > > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to
> > cross the intersection
> > > one
> > > > at a
> > > > > time do they?
> > > > >
> > > > > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For
> > that kind of money We could
> > > > have
> > > > > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing
> > zone, and killed someone.
> > > > I feel
> > > > > cheated...
> > > > >
> > > > > Are there any attorneys out ther e that can
> > give us advice on how to
> > > argue
> > > > this
> > > > > type of case?
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree that we should follow the rules of the
> > road
> === message truncated ===>
> _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> Need Mail bonding?
> Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
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> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Greg Crane

2007-07-08

I use a fake (stolen) I.D. I give to the cops, I don't
pay taxes, am in the country illegally and have a ton
of credit card debt I will never have to pay. At
least 11 states have warrants for my arrest and in
Canada I am "persona non grata". I am however well
liked in Guatemala

I also race masters though my real age is 32, cross
the center line all the time, draft in TT's and have
long ago lost track of what I put in my body.

Rules are for suckers, fight the power and stick it to
the man. Personal responsibility is so old school.

Greg
The sarcasm in this e-mail is made with 85% recycled
material and the bitterness is derived from a 100%
Fair Trade, Shade Grown joyless childhood.
--- Edward Kendrick Sr
wrote:

> It's amazing that the people are willing to honor
> such goings-on. Don't stop for these cops. Don't
> give your name or accept a ticket.
>
> Would you stop for the "red-coats?" A gov't that
> behaves this way has made itself illegitimate.
>
> Kristin wrote:
> I got one as well during the infamous Salmon
> sting...I plead not
> guilty and showed up to court; my ticket was changed
> to a pedestrian
> violation (won't be on my driving record now) and
> the fine was brought
> down to around $100 instead of 250.
>
> Kristin
>
> On 7/8/07, David Oliphant wrote:
> >
> >
> > I got a ticket rolling a stop sign earlier this
> year. If you get one....do
> > the following:
> >
> > 1) Plead not guilty
> > 2) Get a court date
> > 3) Go to court and plead your case (I did...the
> judge threw out the fine)
> > 4) If found guilty (like I was) - ask the judge to
> record the ticket as a
> > bicycle infraction. Reason: If you don't...it can
> be recorded DMV record as
> > a moving violation.
> >
> > The good thing for me...no fine ($244 ticket
> originally)...I was found
> > guilty for not stopping (but, DMV does not
> recognize bicycle infraction on
> > your
> > driving record).
> >
> > Bottomline....the whole thing is a big 'goat
> rodeo' and money maker for the
> > city / county.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Edward Kendrick Sr
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:18 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in
> North Plains
> >
> >
> > We are in the paradigm of the automobile. As long
> as that is true, bicycle
> > riders should always be judged as innocent, even
> if they do something
> > unreasonable. Yes, global warming and such has
> made this true.
> >
> > $225 & $335. Hmmm. That's like having a cop force
> you to strip naked and
> > dance the macarena. Why not simply ignore the
> writhings of this policeman
> > and the ticket?
> >
> > Is this a symptom of a civil disobedience
> shortage?
> >
> >
> >
> > "J.Michael Manning" wrote:
> >
> > I agree with you, George. But why put yourself in
> a situation where the
> > officer writing the ticket is allowed to make a
> "judgement" call?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com;
> junk@sharperphoto.com;
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in
> North Plains
> > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:14:34 +0000
> >
> >
> > You do not have to put your foot down. We have
> this discussion every six
> > months.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: J.Michael Manning
> >
> > Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed
> along with 7 others at the
> > tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection
> in North Plains. It was
> > obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about
> 400 meters before the
> > intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll
> through the stop sign.
> > During the course of writing 8 citations he
> explained to all of us that it
> > was a judgement call, that we did not have to
> actually stop but that he had
> > determined that we did not make sufficient effort
> to stop. So the best bet
> > is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't
> like to disrupt the flow
> > of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you
> don't have to argue the
> > point.
> > Mike Manning
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > > From: elongride@hotmail.com
> > > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net;
> junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in
> North Plains
> > >
> > > I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent
> years that, for cyclists,
> > > effectively made stop signs yield signs -
> meaning that you would only stop
> > > if there were actually traffic to stop for.
> > >
> > > I recall some heated debate on the obra list
> about this at the time, so
> > I'm
> > > pretty sure this law existed somewhere in
> Oregon.
> > >
> > > Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy
> pills?
> > >
> > >
> > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in
> North Plains
> > > Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
> > >
> > > The ticket is to the driver. Each of you
> happened too be one. If you want
> > > more value for your dollar, next time, do it on
> a tandem.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > George Schreck
> > > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > (503) 502-0425
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: Gary Cornilles
> > >
> > > > I was with Tim and got one of the $335.
> tickets. What I don't get is how
> > > we can
> > > > each be ticketed individually when we crossed
> the intersection as one.
> > > Sureley,
> > > > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to
> cross the intersection
> > one
> > > at a
> > > > time do they?
> > > >
> > > > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For
> that kind of money We could
> > > have
> > > > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing
> zone, and killed someone.
> > > I feel
> > > > cheated...
> > > >
> > > > Are there any attorneys out ther e that can
> give us advice on how to
> > argue
> > > this
> > > > type of case?
> > > >
> > > > I agree that we should follow the rules of the
> road
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


____________________________________________________________________________________
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david baker

2007-07-08

Yeah let's all get our guns and meet at the capital at high noon... yee-haw..giddy-up now
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Kendrick Sr
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains

It's amazing that the people are willing to honor such goings-on. Don't stop for these cops. Don't give your name or accept a ticket.

Would you stop for the "red-coats?" A gov't that behaves this way has made itself illegitimate.

Kristin wrote:
I got one as well during the infamous Salmon sting...I plead not
guilty and showed up to court; my ticket was changed to a pedestrian
violation (won't be on my driving record now) and the fine was brought
down to around $100 instead of 250.

Kristin

On 7/8/07, David Oliphant wrote:
>
>
> I got a ticket rolling a stop sign earlier this year. If you get one....do
> the following:
>
> 1) Plead not guilty
> 2) Get a court date
> 3) Go to court and plead your case (I did...the judge threw out the fine)
> 4) If found guilty (like I was) - ask the judge to record the ticket as a
> bicycle infraction. Reason: If you don't...it can be recorded DMV record as
> a moving violation.
>
> The good thing for me...no fine ($244 ticket originally)...I was found
> guilty for not stopping (but, DMV does not recognize bicycle infraction on
> your
> driving record).
>
> Bottomline....the whole thing is a big 'goat rodeo' and money maker for the
> city / county.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Kendrick Sr
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
>
>
> We are in the paradigm of the automobile. As long as that is true, bicycle
> riders should always be judged as innocent, even if they do something
> unreasonable. Yes, global warming and such has made this true.
>
> $225 & $335. Hmmm. That's like having a cop force you to strip naked and
> dance the macarena. Why not simply ignore the writhings of this policeman
> and the ticket?
>
> Is this a symptom of a civil disobedience shortage?
>
>
>
> "J.Michael Manning" wrote:
>
> I agree with you, George. But why put yourself in a situation where the
> officer writing the ticket is allowed to make a "judgement" call?
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; junk@sharperphoto.com;
> obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:14:34 +0000
>
>
> You do not have to put your foot down. We have this discussion every six
> months.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: J.Michael Manning
>
> Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the
> tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was
> obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the
> intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign.
> During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it
> was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had
> determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet
> is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow
> of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the
> point.
> Mike Manning
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> > From: elongride@hotmail.com
> > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> >
> > I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> > effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
> > if there were actually traffic to stop for.
> >
> > I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so
> I'm
> > pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
> >
> > Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> > Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
> >
> > The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
> > more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Gary Cornilles
> >
> > > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
> > we can
> > > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> > Sureley,
> > > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection
> one
> > at a
> > > time do they?
> > >
> > > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> > have
> > > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
> > I feel
> > > cheated...
> > >
> > > Are there any attorneys out ther e that can give us advice on how to
> argue
> > this
> > > type of case?
> > >
> > > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
> > a
> > > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> > should
> > > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> > spared the
> > > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> ___
> > http://newlivehotmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ________________________________
> Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one
> place! Find it!
> ________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
> Games.
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Edward Kendrick Sr

2007-07-08

It's amazing that the people are willing to honor such goings-on. Don't stop for these cops. Don't give your name or accept a ticket.

Would you stop for the "red-coats?" A gov't that behaves this way has made itself illegitimate.

Kristin wrote:
I got one as well during the infamous Salmon sting...I plead not
guilty and showed up to court; my ticket was changed to a pedestrian
violation (won't be on my driving record now) and the fine was brought
down to around $100 instead of 250.

Kristin

On 7/8/07, David Oliphant wrote:
>
>
> I got a ticket rolling a stop sign earlier this year. If you get one....do
> the following:
>
> 1) Plead not guilty
> 2) Get a court date
> 3) Go to court and plead your case (I did...the judge threw out the fine)
> 4) If found guilty (like I was) - ask the judge to record the ticket as a
> bicycle infraction. Reason: If you don't...it can be recorded DMV record as
> a moving violation.
>
> The good thing for me...no fine ($244 ticket originally)...I was found
> guilty for not stopping (but, DMV does not recognize bicycle infraction on
> your
> driving record).
>
> Bottomline....the whole thing is a big 'goat rodeo' and money maker for the
> city / county.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Kendrick Sr
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
>
>
> We are in the paradigm of the automobile. As long as that is true, bicycle
> riders should always be judged as innocent, even if they do something
> unreasonable. Yes, global warming and such has made this true.
>
> $225 & $335. Hmmm. That's like having a cop force you to strip naked and
> dance the macarena. Why not simply ignore the writhings of this policeman
> and the ticket?
>
> Is this a symptom of a civil disobedience shortage?
>
>
>
> "J.Michael Manning" wrote:
>
> I agree with you, George. But why put yourself in a situation where the
> officer writing the ticket is allowed to make a "judgement" call?
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; junk@sharperphoto.com;
> obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:14:34 +0000
>
>
> You do not have to put your foot down. We have this discussion every six
> months.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: J.Michael Manning
>
> Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the
> tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was
> obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the
> intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign.
> During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it
> was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had
> determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet
> is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow
> of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the
> point.
> Mike Manning
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> > From: elongride@hotmail.com
> > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> >
> > I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> > effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
> > if there were actually traffic to stop for.
> >
> > I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so
> I'm
> > pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
> >
> > Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> > Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
> >
> > The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
> > more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Gary Cornilles
> >
> > > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
> > we can
> > > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> > Sureley,
> > > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection
> one
> > at a
> > > time do they?
> > >
> > > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> > have
> > > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
> > I feel
> > > cheated...
> > >
> > > Are there any attorneys out ther e that can give us advice on how to
> argue
> > this
> > > type of case?
> > >
> > > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
> > a
> > > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> > should
> > > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> > spared the
> > > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> ___
> > http://newlivehotmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ________________________________
> Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one
> place! Find it!
> ________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
> Games.
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


---------------------------------
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.


Kristin

2007-07-08

I got one as well during the infamous Salmon sting...I plead not
guilty and showed up to court; my ticket was changed to a pedestrian
violation (won't be on my driving record now) and the fine was brought
down to around $100 instead of 250.

Kristin

On 7/8/07, David Oliphant wrote:
>
>
> I got a ticket rolling a stop sign earlier this year. If you get one....do
> the following:
>
> 1) Plead not guilty
> 2) Get a court date
> 3) Go to court and plead your case (I did...the judge threw out the fine)
> 4) If found guilty (like I was) - ask the judge to record the ticket as a
> bicycle infraction. Reason: If you don't...it can be recorded DMV record as
> a moving violation.
>
> The good thing for me...no fine ($244 ticket originally)...I was found
> guilty for not stopping (but, DMV does not recognize bicycle infraction on
> your
> driving record).
>
> Bottomline....the whole thing is a big 'goat rodeo' and money maker for the
> city / county.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Edward Kendrick Sr
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
>
>
> We are in the paradigm of the automobile. As long as that is true, bicycle
> riders should always be judged as innocent, even if they do something
> unreasonable. Yes, global warming and such has made this true.
>
> $225 & $335. Hmmm. That's like having a cop force you to strip naked and
> dance the macarena. Why not simply ignore the writhings of this policeman
> and the ticket?
>
> Is this a symptom of a civil disobedience shortage?
>
>
>
> "J.Michael Manning" wrote:
>
> I agree with you, George. But why put yourself in a situation where the
> officer writing the ticket is allowed to make a "judgement" call?
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; junk@sharperphoto.com;
> obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:14:34 +0000
>
>
> You do not have to put your foot down. We have this discussion every six
> months.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: J.Michael Manning
>
> Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the
> tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was
> obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the
> intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign.
> During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it
> was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had
> determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet
> is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow
> of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the
> point.
> Mike Manning
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> > From: elongride@hotmail.com
> > To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> >
> > I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> > effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
> > if there were actually traffic to stop for.
> >
> > I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so
> I'm
> > pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
> >
> > Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> > Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
> >
> > The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
> > more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Gary Cornilles
> >
> > > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
> > we can
> > > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> > Sureley,
> > > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection
> one
> > at a
> > > time do they?
> > >
> > > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> > have
> > > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
> > I feel
> > > cheated...
> > >
> > > Are there any attorneys out ther e that can give us advice on how to
> argue
> > this
> > > type of case?
> > >
> > > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
> > a
> > > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> > should
> > > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> > spared the
> > > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> ___
> > http://newlivehotmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ________________________________
> Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one
> place! Find it!
> ________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
> Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo!
> Games.
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


David Oliphant

2007-07-08

I got a ticket rolling a stop sign earlier this year. If you get one....do the following:

1) Plead not guilty
2) Get a court date
3) Go to court and plead your case (I did...the judge threw out the fine)
4) If found guilty (like I was) - ask the judge to record the ticket as a bicycle infraction. Reason: If you don't...it can be recorded DMV record as a moving violation.

The good thing for me...no fine ($244 ticket originally)...I was found guilty for not stopping (but, DMV does not recognize bicycle infraction on your
driving record).

Bottomline....the whole thing is a big 'goat rodeo' and money maker for the city / county.
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Kendrick Sr
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2007 3:18 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains

We are in the paradigm of the automobile. As long as that is true, bicycle riders should always be judged as innocent, even if they do something unreasonable. Yes, global warming and such has made this true.

$225 & $335. Hmmm. That's like having a cop force you to strip naked and dance the macarena. Why not simply ignore the writhings of this policeman and the ticket?

Is this a symptom of a civil disobedience shortage?

"J.Michael Manning" wrote:
I agree with you, George. But why put yourself in a situation where the officer writing the ticket is allowed to make a "judgement" call?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:14:34 +0000

You do not have to put your foot down. We have this discussion every six months.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: J.Michael Manning

Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign. During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the point.
Mike Manning

------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: elongride@hotmail.com
> To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
>
> I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
> if there were actually traffic to stop for.
>
> I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so I'm
> pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
>
> Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
>
> The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
> more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Gary Cornilles
>
> > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
> we can
> > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> Sureley,
> > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one
> at a
> > time do they?
> >
> > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> have
> > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
> I feel
> > cheated...
> >
> > Are there any attorneys out ther e that can give us advice on how to argue
> this
> > type of case?
> >
> > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
> a
> > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> should
> > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> spared the
> > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ______________________________________________________________ ___
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Edward Kendrick Sr

2007-07-08

We are in the paradigm of the automobile. As long as that is true, bicycle riders should always be judged as innocent, even if they do something unreasonable. Yes, global warming and such has made this true.

$225 & $335. Hmmm. That's like having a cop force you to strip naked and dance the macarena. Why not simply ignore the writhings of this policeman and the ticket?

Is this a symptom of a civil disobedience shortage?



"J.Michael Manning" wrote:
P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } I agree with you, George. But why put yourself in a situation where the officer writing the ticket is allowed to make a "judgement" call?


---------------------------------
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: cycleone23@hotmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:14:34 +0000

You do not have to put your foot down. We have this discussion every six months.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: J.Michael Manning
.ExternalClass P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign. During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the point.
Mike Manning


---------------------------------
> From: elongride@hotmail.com
> To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
>
> I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
> if there were actually traffic to stop for.
>
> I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so I'm
> pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
>
> Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
>
> The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
> more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Gary Cornilles
>
> > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
> we can
> > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> Sureley,
> > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one
> at a
> > time do they?
> >
> > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> have
> > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
> I feel
> > cheated...
> >
> > Are there any attorneys out ther e that can give us advice on how to argue
> this
> > type of case?
> >
> > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
> a
> > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> should
> > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> spared the
> > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ______________________________________________________________ ___
> http://newlivehotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


---------------------------------
Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha!
Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.


Brian Engelen

2007-07-06

What is the requirement for large groups? Is only 1 bike allowed to proceed
per sequence? Or, can the whole group go together? I have been with big
groups of riders where we all stop together then proceed together. Is this
OK or are going to get ticketed?

Brian Engelen

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Friday, July 06, 2007 4:15 PM
To: J.Michael Manning; Erik Long; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains

You do not have to put your foot down. We have this discussion every six
months.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: J.Michael Manning

Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the
tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was
obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the
intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign.
During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it
was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had
determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet
is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow
of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the
point.
Mike Manning

_____

> From: elongride@hotmail.com
> To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
>
> I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop

> if there were actually traffic to stop for.
>
> I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so
I'm
> pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
>
> Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
>
> The tic ket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want

> more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Gary Cornilles
>
> > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how

> we can
> > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> Sureley,
> > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection
one
> at a
> > time do they?
> >
> > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> have
> > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.

> I feel
> > cheated...
> >
> > Are there any attorneys ou t ther e that can give us advice on how to
argue
> this
> > type of case?
> >
> > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as

> a
> > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> should
> > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> spared the
> > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ________________________________________________________ ______ ___
> http://newlivehotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one
place! Find it!


J.Michael Manning

2007-07-06

I agree with you, George. But why put yourself in a situation where the officer writing the ticket is allowed to make a "judgement" call?From: gschreckchat@comcast.netTo: cycleone23@hotmail.com; elongride@hotmail.com; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.orgSubject: RE: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North PlainsDate: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 23:14:34 +0000
You do not have to put your foot down. We have this discussion every six months.

--George Schreck gschreckchat@comcast.net (503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message -------------- From: J.Michael Manning

Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign. During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the point.Mike Manning

> From: elongride@hotmail.com> To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains> > I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists, > effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop > if there were actually traffic to stop for.> > I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so I'm > pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.> > Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?> > > ----Original Message Follows----> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net> To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000> > The ticket is
to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want > more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.> > --> > George Schreck> gschreckchat@comcast.net> (503) 502-0425> > -------------- Original message --------------> From: Gary Cornilles > > > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how > we can> > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one. > Sureley,> > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one > at a> > time do they?> >> > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could > have> > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone. > I feel> > cheated...> >> > Are there any attorneys out ther
e that can give us advice on how to argue > this> > type of case?> >> > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as > a> > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they > should> > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be > spared the> > "speech" about how they are protecting us.> > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > ______________________________________________________________
___> http://newlivehotmail.com> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! Find it!

_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!  
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gschreckchat@comcast.net

2007-07-06

You do not have to put your foot down. We have this discussion every six months.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: J.Michael Manning

Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign. During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the point.
Mike Manning

> From: elongride@hotmail.com
> To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
>
> I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
> if there were actually traffic to stop for.
>
> I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so I'm
> pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
>
> Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
>
> The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
> more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Gary Cornilles
>
> > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
> we can
> > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> Sureley,
> > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one
> at a
> > time do they?
> >
> > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> have
> > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
> I feel
> > cheated...
> >
> > Are there any attorneys out there that can give us advice on how to argue
> this
> > type of case?
> >
> > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
> a
> > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> should
> > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> spared the
> > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://newlivehotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! Find it!


J.Michael Manning

2007-07-06

Related to your post...last summer I was ticketed along with 7 others at the tune of $225 apiece at the very same intersection in North Plains. It was obviously a trap, as the officer sped by us about 400 meters before the intersection, whereupon he hid to watch us roll through the stop sign. During the course of writing 8 citations he explained to all of us that it was a judgement call, that we did not have to actually stop but that he had determined that we did not make sufficient effort to stop. So the best bet is to STOP and put a foot down. As much as I don't like to disrupt the flow of my workout, it's worth the effort. Then you don't have to argue the point.Mike Manning> From: elongride@hotmail.com> To: gschreckchat@comcast.net; junk@sharperphoto.com; obra@list.obra.org> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2007 12:07:04 -0700> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains> > I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists, > effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop > if there were actually traffic to stop for.> > I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so I'm > pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.> > Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?> > > ----Original Message Follows----> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net> To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000> > The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want > more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.> > --> > George Schreck> gschreckchat@comcast.net> (503) 502-0425> > -------------- Original message --------------> From: Gary Cornilles > > > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how > we can> > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one. > Sureley,> > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one > at a> > time do they?> >> > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could > have> > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone. > I feel> > cheated...> >> > Are there any attorneys out there that can give us advice on how to argue > this> > type of case?> >> > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as > a> > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they > should> > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be > spared the> > "speech" about how they are protecting us.> > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _________________________________________________________________> http://newlivehotmail.com> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
Local listings, incredible imagery, and driving directions - all in one place! Find it!
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gschreckchat@comcast.net

2007-07-06

It never became law, but you still may be taking crazy pills, and you had better check with WADA to make sure they are not a banned substance.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Erik Long"

> I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
> if there were actually traffic to stop for.
>
> I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so I'm
> pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
>
> Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
>
> The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
> more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Gary Cornilles
>
> > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
> we can
> > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> Sureley,
> > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one
> at a
> > time do they?
> >
> > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> have
> > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
> I feel
> > cheated...
> >
> > Are there any attorneys out there that can give us advice on how to argue
> this
> > type of case?
> >
> > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
> a
> > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> should
> > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> spared the
> > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://newlivehotmail.com
>


Mark J. Ginsberg

2007-07-06

George was correct, each of you controls your own destiny, and each of you (allegedly) ran the stop sign, so you each get your own violation (ticket).

happy to talk off list about legal options.

Mark Ginsberg

Gary Cornilles wrote:I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how we can each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one. Sureley, they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one at a time do they?

$335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could have driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone. I feel cheated...

Are there any attorneys out there that can give us advice on how to argue this type of case?

I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as a "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they should just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be spared the "speech" about how they are protecting us.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 227-2530
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

---------------------------------
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Tony McCray

2007-07-06

I think there was a bill that included this law. Passed the house but
not the senate or something like that, so it never actually became law.

-Tony

Erik Long wrote:
> I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
> effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
> if there were actually traffic to stop for.
>
> I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so I'm
> pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.
>
> Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000
>
> The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
> more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Gary Cornilles
>
> > I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
> we can
> > each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
> Sureley,
> > they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one
> at a
> > time do they?
> >
> > $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
> have
> > driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
> I feel
> > cheated...
> >
> > Are there any attorneys out there that can give us advice on how to argue
> this
> > type of case?
> >
> > I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
> a
> > "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
> should
> > just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
> spared the
> > "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://newlivehotmail.com
>
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> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>


Erik Long

2007-07-06

I seem to recall an Oregon law passed in recent years that, for cyclists,
effectively made stop signs yield signs - meaning that you would only stop
if there were actually traffic to stop for.

I recall some heated debate on the obra list about this at the time, so I'm
pretty sure this law existed somewhere in Oregon.

Does anybody remember this, or am I taking crazy pills?

----Original Message Follows----
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: Gary Cornilles , obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cyclists ticketed in North Plains
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 17:38:57 +0000

The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want
more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Gary Cornilles

> I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how
we can
> each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one.
Sureley,
> they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one
at a
> time do they?
>
> $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could
have
> driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone.
I feel
> cheated...
>
> Are there any attorneys out there that can give us advice on how to argue
this
> type of case?
>
> I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as
a
> "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they
should
> just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be
spared the
> "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com


gschreckchat@comcast.net

2007-07-06

The ticket is to the driver. Each of you happened too be one. If you want more value for your dollar, next time, do it on a tandem.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Gary Cornilles

> I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how we can
> each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one. Sureley,
> they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one at a
> time do they?
>
> $335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could have
> driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone. I feel
> cheated...
>
> Are there any attorneys out there that can give us advice on how to argue this
> type of case?
>
> I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as a
> "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they should
> just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be spared the
> "speech" about how they are protecting us.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Gary Cornilles

2007-07-06

I was with Tim and got one of the $335. tickets. What I don't get is how we can each be ticketed individually when we crossed the intersection as one. Sureley, they don't expect a group of 15-20 cyclists to cross the intersection one at a time do they?

$335. x 3 for basically one infraction. For that kind of money We could have driven while suspended, passed in a no passing zone, and killed someone. I feel cheated...

Are there any attorneys out there that can give us advice on how to argue this type of case?

I agree that we should follow the rules of the road but, using safety as a "reason" to site cyclists for rolling an empty 4-way stop is BS, they should just call it what it is...a funding source. At least then I could be spared the "speech" about how they are protecting us.


gschreckchat@comcast.net

2007-07-06

Although the officer said there is increased enforcement, the Sheriff has been at that spot for the past two years handing out tickets to cyclists. There have been multiple posts about it, so it should have come at no surprise. I know my group used to roll throught that sign, and we stop now, so it forced us to do the right thing.

As for the logic, Washington County is pro growth, and seems to be willing to give out building permits which add more traffic. Depite policies that add traffic, the county does not upgrade many of the roads or require the developers to do so. Many of the roads have high traffic now, but essentially still are country roads. As a result, cyclists become an annoyance on those areas as the traffic increases but the road width does not. I really do not think the police are the issue in general (like all members of the public, a few are). The issue is a poor infrastructure with increasing traffic, and the police are in the dificult situation of trying to keep it working. Sometimes, they may make decisions that do not make a lot of sense or tend to focus on the cyclists rather than the autos. At the same time, on my way to work, I saw the police pulling over a lot of cars for speeding, so it does appear that they are trying to make things safer overall.

The solutuion may be for us to obey the traffic laws, which is not much of a stratch if we want ot be treated as vehicles with the right to use the road. As for the stop sign, just stop temporarily, and like anything, if you do not and happen to be foolish enough to do it in front of a police officer, well.... I do agree that the fine seems high, but it is the same amount for the infraction with a car, and the fines do not differentiate between vehicles. If a fine that high will keep a car from running a stop sign, in the end, it may save a few of us. I realize we all take risks and bend the laws sometimes, and when we do, occasionally we will get caught. The high fine just changes the equation a bit.

I did like Greg's response though.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Monty Hill

This really makes me frustrated, I don?t know if I even want to get started. Random thoughts:

The cyclist was killed by a car not by another cyclist.

The cyclist killed was doing everything by the law.

$335? Is that more than the fine the killer received?

Why fine a cyclist for doing something that is only threatening his or her own life? These laws were put in place to give automobile drivers a reason to think about the lives of others.

Have they started handing out tickets for cars passing cyclist on a double yellow? If so I get passed about 30-40 times on a given ride.

What are these idiots in Washington County thinking? Are they just trying to get cyclist off the road, so they don?t have to slow down? I know is must be so irritating to step on the brake pedal, sit on ones ass listening to bad music, waiting for the opportunity to prove to a cyclists why one needed their oversized gutless gashog.

Okay, deep breath, I think I need a new keyboard.

Monty

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Lindsay Kandra
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:04 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: TriClub Chat
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclists Ticketed in North Plains


FYI
Part of a group I was riding with yesterday was ticketed $335 apiece for rolling though the stop signs at the intersection of North Plains Rd and Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains PD has stepped up ticketing cyclists in the area since the rider was killed a few weeks ago. Beware.


Thomas Hoffman

2007-07-06

They only have two officers in North Plains, if they were chasing after
Motorists, How would they catch those rascal bikers? Besides It is much
Cheaper to sight Cyclists, Chasing after a speeding SUV or Pick up uses too
much gas.

Gordie, don't you remember sell the North Plains Police the lights (Cateye
Halogens) and Racks for the Huffy they used on there Bike Patrol?

Thomas Hoffman
RE/MAX equity group
503-495-5607 Direct
503-475-3417 Cell
www.tomshometeam.com

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Gordie Cumming
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 10:45 PM
To: 'Lindsay Kandra'; obra@list.obra.org
Cc: 'TriClub Chat'
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Cyclists Ticketed in North Plains

Have they increased watching for reckless drivers that hit cyclists and
ticketing them?

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Lindsay Kandra
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:04 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: TriClub Chat
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclists Ticketed in North Plains

FYI

Part of a group I was riding with yesterday was ticketed $335 apiece for
rolling though the stop signs at the intersection of North Plains Rd and
Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains PD has stepped up
ticketing cyclists in the area since the rider was killed a few weeks ago.
Beware.


Monty Hill

2007-07-06

This really makes me frustrated, I don't know if I even want to get started. Random thoughts:

The cyclist was killed by a car not by another cyclist.

The cyclist killed was doing everything by the law.

$335? Is that more than the fine the killer received?

Why fine a cyclist for doing something that is only threatening his or her own life? These laws were put in place to give automobile drivers a reason to think about the lives of others.

Have they started handing out tickets for cars passing cyclist on a double yellow? If so I get passed about 30-40 times on a given ride.

What are these idiots in Washington County thinking? Are they just trying to get cyclist off the road, so they don't have to slow down? I know is must be so irritating to step on the brake pedal, sit on ones ass listening to bad music, waiting for the opportunity to prove to a cyclists why one needed their oversized gutless gashog.

Okay, deep breath, I think I need a new keyboard.

Monty

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Lindsay Kandra
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:04 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: TriClub Chat
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclists Ticketed in North Plains

FYI
Part of a group I was riding with yesterday was ticketed $335 apiece for rolling though the stop signs at the intersection of North Plains Rd and Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains PD has stepped up ticketing cyclists in the area since the rider was killed a few weeks ago. Beware.


Gordie Cumming

2007-07-05

Have they increased watching for reckless drivers that hit cyclists and ticketing them?

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Lindsay Kandra
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 9:04 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: TriClub Chat
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Cyclists Ticketed in North Plains

FYI

Part of a group I was riding with yesterday was ticketed $335 apiece for rolling though the stop signs at the intersection of North
Plains Rd and Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains PD has stepped up ticketing cyclists in the area since the rider
was killed a few weeks ago. Beware.


Lindsay Kandra

2007-07-05

FYI

Part of a group I was riding with yesterday was ticketed $335 apiece for
rolling though the stop signs at the intersection of North Plains Rd and
Glencoe. The officer indicated that the north plains PD has stepped up
ticketing cyclists in the area since the rider was killed a few weeks
ago. Beware.