Scott and Cheryl McElroy

Thank you Aaron to bring some rational thought to this ongoing diatribe.
Thankfully I don't get this email chat delivered to my work email, or else I
would go crazy during the day with all the babble. A better subject might
be to talk about how my team mate Jenn Wangerin made the Oregonian sports
section today, and how her achievement is also now promoting track racing
and young women in our community. Oh well.

The Police Chief probably didn't respond exactly as any of us would like;
and as another poster stated we should be happy that he took the time to
respond. As many of you, like me ride all year and roll stop signs know, if
you get caught you get a ticket. Cops deal with all sorts of a-holes in
their job, and they generally see us as a bunch of elitists who will bitch
about anything. Last week on July 4th, I was sprinting and inadvertently
unclipped and went down really hard (35mph) on a sprint with some old team
mates on Skyline. The first to arrive was a state trooper, who was
extremely attentive to my situation. Someone must have also seen how much
road rash I had, and also called the fire department who showed up and were
really good to me. My point is that these folks are trying to look out for
us, and provide services that maybe some of the riders in our community
don't think apply to them. I assume that some of my tax dollars and ticket
revenue went to support their positions, of which I am thankful.

We can debate whether we should or shouldn't have a real brake on a fixie,
stop signs should be marked "slow and look around" for cyclists since we can
hear and see better than folks in cars (are scooter riders also exempt?), or
whether we should correct the grammar/syntax in response from a police
chief. However, while we are doing all this, we might consider that we are
sharing the road with others, are the minority with cars, and have some
acceptance of risk while being out on the road. Whenever I talk to a
non-cyclist about the amount of riding we do on the local roads, they
overwhelmingly don't get what we are doing and their general response is
irritation for having to slow way down and tail us before they can find a
safe place to finally pass us. Whether we like it or not, drivers are
performing an accommodation for us on the road everyday. We are not usually
going the speed limit on many roads with no shoulder or bike lane, and they
have to pay special attention to deal with us. We are small compared to
cars, and like it or not they don't see us. If a driver runs us down and
are at fault, they should be cited and penalized. This is a separate issue.
The debate got way off track between penalties and how they may not be
strong enough for some major offenses.

You can't bring people to our cause by berating them and calling them out.
Win their hearts and minds and we will bring them to understand the pastime
we all love.

Scott McElroy

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Aaron Coker
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:12 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Comment by North Plains Police Chief at
bikeportland.org

To compare the Police Chief of North Plains to the SS (Schutzstaffel) is
highly irresponsible, and I'm personally offended as I'm sure Chief
Whitehead would be, as well. Why don't you take a few minutes to open a
history book and read up on what the SS represented in Nazi Germany before
you start throwing insults like that out. As the son a former Police
Officer I can say that what they deal with day in and day out often times
makes their job thankless.

The Chief was simply doing his job, which is to protect the community. I
don't think we need to pray for him. I think we need to thank him for
having the courage to stand up for his position and enforce the law. It's
pretty simple, don't run the stop sign and you won't get a ticket. Cyclists
are always bitching about not being given a fair shake while on the road,
but then complain after being cited for disobeying the law. It seems like a
bit of a double standard to me. We all run stop signs from time to time.
I've been pulled over and I know others who have. If we get caught we need
to take responsibility for our actions. If you can't afford a $335 ticket
then don't break the damn law.

-Aaron Coker
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Aaron Coker

To compare the Police Chief of North Plains to the SS (Schutzstaffel) is highly irresponsible, and I'm personally offended as I'm sure Chief Whitehead would be, as well. Why don't you take a few minutes to open a history book and read up on what the SS represented in Nazi Germany before you start throwing insults like that out. As the son a former Police Officer I can say that what they deal with day in and day out often times makes their job thankless.

The Chief was simply doing his job, which is to protect the community. I don't think we need to pray for him. I think we need to thank him for having the courage to stand up for his position and enforce the law. It's pretty simple, don't run the stop sign and you won't get a ticket. Cyclists are always bitching about not being given a fair shake while on the road, but then complain after being cited for disobeying the law. It seems like a bit of a double standard to me. We all run stop signs from time to time. I've been pulled over and I know others who have. If we get caught we need to take responsibility for our actions. If you can't afford a $335 ticket then don't break the damn law.

-Aaron Coker

Edward Kendrick Sr

Thanks for the post. Yes it is time for Chief Whitehead to move on. I take pleasure in supporting law enforcement, but I also have one child in college and two others on their way.

If he came after me, knowing it's $335. that will put my son out of school, I will bushwhack in through the woods and do whatever it takes to get away. After all, it's just a stop sign, and people sometimes miss them by accident.

If Cheif Whitehead had the credentials for his position, he would never behave like the SS. He should go to a job, for which he is qualified. Let's pray for and wish the best for Chief Whitehead.

Chris Bright wrote:
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I saw that Jonathan Maus wrote up an article on the BikePortland.org and Chief Whitehead posted a comment. I post this because it is pertinent to the recent discussion and I will let you weigh in on it?.


URL: http://bikeportland.org/2007/07/09/police-chief-cyclists-respond-to-north-plains-enforcement-concerns/

Here is his comment posted in its entirety below:

Chief Scott Whitehead
July 8th, 2007 07:09
47
I have been reading through the messages posted regarding bike enforcement in North Plains. It seems that several people have taken my comments out of context and turned it around to sound less caring. Our efforts to step up enforcement at stop signs has been focused towards everyone. I don't care if your operating a motor vehicle or a bicycle if you disobey a stop sign you will be cited. I tell this to each person I stop regardless of their mode of transportation. The point I'm trying to make to bike riders is that they are so much more vulnerable to injury and death because they are on a bike. I never justified my citations because of the death of Timothy O'Donnell. I justify my cites because if a motor vehicle and a bicycle disobey a stop sign at the same time there will most likely be a fatality. I will do everything possible to prevent that from happening. I will park at the intersection of Glencoe and West Union everyday and cite all motor vehicles and bikes if
that's what it takes to preserve a life. I know people don't like it and they think its all revenue generated enforcement and that's not true. There is nothing worse than responding to a crash with injuries or death. You think it's tough on you as a bike community? It's tough on us when we have to make a death notification and then second guess if we could have prevented such a tragic event. If I didn't care about the safety of people in North Plains I would not spend as much time enforcing traffic laws as I do. As much as it seems that people want us to stop what were doing it's not going to happen. I will go home everyday knowing that I did everything possible to make my community a safe place to ride and drive, and if I have to write tickets to make that happen I will. North Plains is my responsibilty and I have a duty to protect everyone and keep them safe. I will not change what I do and if I ever do then it's time for me to move on.

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David Strader

I was hoping Chief Whitehead could have been around that area yesterday when myself and the group was riding with made sure to stop at the stop sign on Glencoe. We then turned left onto West Union and proceeded to almost get run off the road 100m down the descent by some dude in a meth-mobile raging down the hill way over the speed limit, then veered towards blaring his horn and then flipped us one of those F16 flying eagle birds (thumb up--old school). That was fun getting the crap scared out of us.

I would think that sort of thing would be considered using the vehicle as a weapon?

Chris Bright wrote:
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } I saw that Jonathan Maus wrote up an article on the BikePortland.org and Chief Whitehead posted a comment. I post this because it is pertinent to the recent discussion and I will let you weigh in on it?.


URL: http://bikeportland.org/2007/07/09/police-chief-cyclists-respond-to-north-plains-enforcement-concerns/

Here is his comment posted in its entirety below:

Chief Scott Whitehead
July 8th, 2007 07:09
47
I have been reading through the messages posted regarding bike enforcement in North Plains. It seems that several people have taken my comments out of context and turned it around to sound less caring. Our efforts to step up enforcement at stop signs has been focused towards everyone. I don't care if your operating a motor vehicle or a bicycle if you disobey a stop sign you will be cited. I tell this to each person I stop regardless of their mode of transportation. The point I'm trying to make to bike riders is that they are so much more vulnerable to injury and death because they are on a bike. I never justified my citations because of the death of Timothy O'Donnell. I justify my cites because if a motor vehicle and a bicycle disobey a stop sign at the same time there will most likely be a fatality. I will do everything possible to prevent that from happening. I will park at the intersection of Glencoe and West Union everyday and cite all motor vehicles and bikes if
that's what it takes to preserve a life. I know people don't like it and they think its all revenue generated enforcement and that's not true. There is nothing worse than responding to a crash with injuries or death. You think it's tough on you as a bike community? It's tough on us when we have to make a death notification and then second guess if we could have prevented such a tragic event. If I didn't care about the safety of people in North Plains I would not spend as much time enforcing traffic laws as I do. As much as it seems that people want us to stop what were doing it's not going to happen. I will go home everyday knowing that I did everything possible to make my community a safe place to ride and drive, and if I have to write tickets to make that happen I will. North Plains is my responsibilty and I have a duty to protect everyone and keep them safe. I will not change what I do and if I ever do then it's time for me to move on.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
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Chris Bright

I saw that Jonathan Maus wrote up an article on the BikePortland.org and
Chief Whitehead posted a comment. I post this because it is pertinent
to the recent discussion and I will let you weigh in on it....

URL:
http://bikeportland.org/2007/07/09/police-chief-cyclists-respond-to-nort
h-plains-enforcement-concerns/

Here is his comment posted in its entirety below:

1. Chief Scott Whitehead
July 8th, 2007 07:09

47

I have been reading through the messages posted regarding bike
enforcement in North Plains. It seems that several people have taken my
comments out of context and turned it around to sound less caring. Our
efforts to step up enforcement at stop signs has been focused towards
everyone. I don't care if your operating a motor vehicle or a bicycle if
you disobey a stop sign you will be cited. I tell this to each person I
stop regardless of their mode of transportation. The point I'm trying to
make to bike riders is that they are so much more vulnerable to injury
and death because they are on a bike. I never justified my citations
because of the death of Timothy O'Donnell. I justify my cites because if
a motor vehicle and a bicycle disobey a stop sign at the same time there
will most likely be a fatality. I will do everything possible to prevent
that from happening. I will park at the intersection of Glencoe and West
Union everyday and cite all motor vehicles and bikes if that's what it
takes to preserve a life. I know people don't like it and they think its
all revenue generated enforcement and that's not true. There is nothing
worse than responding to a crash with injuries or death. You think it's
tough on you as a bike community? It's tough on us when we have to make
a death notification and then second guess if we could have prevented
such a tragic event. If I didn't care about the safety of people in
North Plains I would not spend as much time enforcing traffic laws as I
do. As much as it seems that people want us to stop what were doing it's
not going to happen. I will go home everyday knowing that I did
everything possible to make my community a safe place to ride and drive,
and if I have to write tickets to make that happen I will. North Plains
is my responsibilty and I have a duty to protect everyone and keep them
safe. I will not change what I do and if I ever do then it's time for me
to move on.