masessa@charter.net

Now I know you're off your rocker if you think Landis is cute, hahahaha.

---- Karleta Reierson wrote:
> That is why I stay away from the coast I may fall off the end. You should
> read Landis's book. It has all the evidence in there. He's cute so he must
> be right.... Right?
> Karleta
>
>
> >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >To: "Karleta Reierson" ,
> >judson@math.harvard.edu, obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:29:12 +0000
> >
> >That has to be one of the most absurd rants I have ever heard. It should
> >be obvious to you that the tests are legitimate as many of these guys
> >initally deny everything, then later admit they doped. Yuor point about
> >the French is ridiculous. These are internationally accredited
> >laboratories and the science is sound. You probably still believe the
> >Earth is flat and roundness was an Italian conspiracy.
> >
> >--
> >
> >George Schreck
> >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >(503) 502-0425
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >From: "Karleta Reierson"
> >
> > > The French are out to get everyone! Their just sad because their not
> > > winning. Eddy Merckx said it best "If the French want to win they just
> >have
> > > to work harder". The French busted in on three tour team busses and are
> > > constantly accusing everyone for cheeting. I am sick of hearing about
> >it,
> > > and I really dislike the French because of all of this scandal and he
> >said
> > > she said crap. Everyone needs to just keep their buisness out of the
> >racers
> > > and let them do their job! They are all amazing racers anyone of them to
> >be
> > > able to finish a three week tour.
> > > Karleta
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Thomas W. Judson"
> > > >Reply-To: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
> > > >judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
> > > >course. There have been false positives in the past.
> > > >--- Mike Bene wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
> > > >Preceptor in Mathematics
> > > >Department of Mathematics
> > > >Harvard University
> > > >1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
> > > >EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > >Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> > > >FareChase.
> > > >http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now! 
> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>

masessa@charter.net

I knew it was the French that stuck that needle in Vino's arm and gave him that blood!!! It must not have been French blood though, because he won the stage.

I love it when people blame everyone but the cheaters.

---- Karleta Reierson wrote:
> The French are out to get everyone! Their just sad because their not
> winning. Eddy Merckx said it best "If the French want to win they just have
> to work harder". The French busted in on three tour team busses and are
> constantly accusing everyone for cheeting. I am sick of hearing about it,
> and I really dislike the French because of all of this scandal and he said
> she said crap. Everyone needs to just keep their buisness out of the racers
> and let them do their job! They are all amazing racers anyone of them to be
> able to finish a three week tour.
> Karleta
>
>
> >From: "Thomas W. Judson"
> >Reply-To: judson@math.harvard.edu
> >To: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
> >judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
> >course. There have been false positives in the past.
> >--- Mike Bene wrote:
> >
> > >
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
> >Preceptor in Mathematics
> >Department of Mathematics
> >Harvard University
> >1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
> >EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >____________________________________________________________________________________
> >Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> >FareChase.
> >http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Karleta Reierson

Thanks! I had fun! Have a great day!

>From: "Joe Cipale"
>Reply-To: joec@aracnet.com
>To: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>CC: "Karleta Reierson" ,
>judson@math.harvard.edu, obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:11:08 -0700
>
>Well
>
>she got me as well...
>
>Damn...
>
>=)
>
>gschreckchat wrote:
>
> > If you do go near there, be careful. I heard there were dragons and sea
>monsters.
> >
> > Nice job on the e-mails. You really had me going for a while.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Karleta Reierson"
> >
> > > That is why I stay away from the coast I may fall off the end. You
>should
> > > read Landis's book. It has all the evidence in there. He's cute so he
>must
> > > be right.... Right?
> > > Karleta
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > >To: "Karleta Reierson" ,
> > > >judson@math.harvard.edu, obra@list.obra.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:29:12 +0000
> > > >
> > > >That has to be one of the most absurd rants I have ever heard. It
>should
> > > >be obvious to you that the tests are legitimate as many of these guys
> > > >initally deny everything, then later admit they doped. Yuor point
>about
> > > >the French is ridiculous. These are internationally accredited
> > > >laboratories and the science is sound. You probably still believe the
> > > >Earth is flat and roundness was an Italian conspiracy.
> > > >
> > > >--
> > > >
> > > >George Schreck
> > > >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > >(503) 502-0425
> > > >
> > > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > > >From: "Karleta Reierson"
> > > >
> > > > > The French are out to get everyone! Their just sad because their
>not
> > > > > winning. Eddy Merckx said it best "If the French want to win they
>just
> > > >have
> > > > > to work harder". The French busted in on three tour team busses
>and are
> > > > > constantly accusing everyone for cheeting. I am sick of hearing
>about
> > > >it,
> > > > > and I really dislike the French because of all of this scandal and
>he
> > > >said
> > > > > she said crap. Everyone needs to just keep their buisness out of
>the
> > > >racers
> > > > > and let them do their job! They are all amazing racers anyone of
>them to
> > > >be
> > > > > able to finish a three week tour.
> > > > > Karleta
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Thomas W. Judson"
> > > > > >Reply-To: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > > > > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > > > > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
> > > > > >judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
> > > > > >course. There have been false positives in the past.
> > > > > >--- Mike Bene wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
> > > > > >Preceptor in Mathematics
> > > > > >Department of Mathematics
> > > > > >Harvard University
> > > > > >1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
> > > > > >EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >_______________________________________________________________________________
> > > > > _____
> > > > > >Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with
>Yahoo!
> > > > > >FareChase.
> > > > > >http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> > > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
> > > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
> > >
>

_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507

Joe Cipale

Well

she got me as well...

Damn...

=)

gschreckchat wrote:

> If you do go near there, be careful. I heard there were dragons and sea monsters.
>
> Nice job on the e-mails. You really had me going for a while.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Karleta Reierson"
>
> > That is why I stay away from the coast I may fall off the end. You should
> > read Landis's book. It has all the evidence in there. He's cute so he must
> > be right.... Right?
> > Karleta
> >
> >
> > >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > >To: "Karleta Reierson" ,
> > >judson@math.harvard.edu, obra@list.obra.org
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:29:12 +0000
> > >
> > >That has to be one of the most absurd rants I have ever heard. It should
> > >be obvious to you that the tests are legitimate as many of these guys
> > >initally deny everything, then later admit they doped. Yuor point about
> > >the French is ridiculous. These are internationally accredited
> > >laboratories and the science is sound. You probably still believe the
> > >Earth is flat and roundness was an Italian conspiracy.
> > >
> > >--
> > >
> > >George Schreck
> > >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > >(503) 502-0425
> > >
> > >-------------- Original message --------------
> > >From: "Karleta Reierson"
> > >
> > > > The French are out to get everyone! Their just sad because their not
> > > > winning. Eddy Merckx said it best "If the French want to win they just
> > >have
> > > > to work harder". The French busted in on three tour team busses and are
> > > > constantly accusing everyone for cheeting. I am sick of hearing about
> > >it,
> > > > and I really dislike the French because of all of this scandal and he
> > >said
> > > > she said crap. Everyone needs to just keep their buisness out of the
> > >racers
> > > > and let them do their job! They are all amazing racers anyone of them to
> > >be
> > > > able to finish a three week tour.
> > > > Karleta
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "Thomas W. Judson"
> > > > >Reply-To: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > > > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > > > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > > > >
> > > > >Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
> > > > >judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
> > > > >course. There have been false positives in the past.
> > > > >--- Mike Bene wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
> > > > >Preceptor in Mathematics
> > > > >Department of Mathematics
> > > > >Harvard University
> > > > >1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
> > > > >EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >_______________________________________________________________________________
> > > > _____
> > > > >Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> > > > >FareChase.
> > > > >http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> > > > >_______________________________________________
> > > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
> > http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
> >

Joe Cipale

Yes.. correct.. EPO DOES have legitmate uses.. My Mother-in-Law was on it when she was recovering from Breast cancer. So was a college classmate.. so was my Uncle. EPO boosts red blood cell production. More red blood cells means greater oxygen capacity. If you have too much red bloods cells... you die... becuase instead of being able to flow through the body smoothly, the blood cells begin to clump becasue they are too dense.

You are obviously new to the sport and have not had much of a chance to learn/read about the foibles and follies that many former riders have gone through to get us to this point. Tommy SImpson died from doping... Many other have been caught (ala Vino) for blood boosting. Many have been caught (at various levels no less) using performance enhancing drugs. Pros, Amatuer, College... all have had their own runins with drugs and cheating regardless of the sport.

No one here has accused Mister Liggett of being anything but truthful. ANd as far as Phil is concerned, he is just as pissed off about the recent spate of news as anyone. Phill has been doing this a hell of a lot longer than YOU have been spinning your pedals. So if anyone has a clue as to what is what, it is Phil.

If someone cheats... that degrades not only thier performance, but also that of the competetors. It casts doubt into the minds of not only the particpants but also the organizers and the fans. Case in point: Have you been following the NBA scandal where the referee has admitted to 'point shaving' and calling games so as to influence the outcome of a game to affect the Vegas point spread? If you have, then you are fully aware of how the fans feel.. Now they question how much a single person influenced not only the outcome of a game, but the outcome of a season! (Did a team miss the playoffs becuase this offical was asked to influence the outcome? Did it impact temas that had made the playoffs?)

Fair play is a requirement for sport competition as well as life. It is something that most of us strive for. Those who cheat cheat everyone... including themselves.

Before you go any further (and make a bigger mistake of trying to argue this point), I suggest you read up on the history of not only Cycling. Google Tommy SImpson and Jacques Anquietil for starters, then move to Pedro Delgado, Marco Pantani, Kevin Lingingston (Yeah... I am convinced HE doped!).
Then you will understand the point of why people here are upset, disappointed, etc...

Joe

Karleta Reierson wrote:

> Oh, Mr. Liggitt is talking out his you know what? They use EPO for cancer
> patients. It can't be all bad..... I agree to disagree with what you have
> to say. I think if they won they should be able to keep their title.
> Karleta
>
>
> >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> >To: Mark Jenkins , Erik Voldengen
> >
> >CC: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:03:29 -0700
> >
> >The least credible event in sports is Mr. No-Neck beating Hank Aarons home
> >run tally, closely followed by any WWF match, followed by the Super Bowl of
> >450lbs meat packages, followed by Thoroughbred Horse Racing. You get my
> >point.
> >
> >
> >
> >Apparently, if you want to win a pro-cycling event you have to risk
> >strokes,
> >liver failure and blood poisoning in addition to 60 mph down hills. Sadly,
> >these people need to be protected from themselves.
> >
> >
> >
> >It's time for the Guillotine. I agree with Phil Liggett that anyone proved
> >to have doped should be banned forever and all their wins expunged back to
> >junior racing, starting today. Then the same for every paid member of their
> >support staff.
> >
> >
> >
> >You can tell I'm moving quickly through the shock and amazement phase
> >straight to being pissed, and I can only imagine what the VS. network, SAAB
> >and Subaru must be thinking
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Gary Malcolm
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >From: Mark Jenkins [mailto:mark.sopelana@gmail.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:56 AM
> >To: Erik Voldengen
> >Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >
> >
> >
> >It's pretty clear that the amount of self-righteousness and hand wringing
> >among the Tour organizers at ASO is inversely proportional to the
> >credibility of the race.
> >
> >Does it seem to anyone else that ASO in recent months has backed off of
> >Armstrong? Could it be that in the wake of the Riis confession that they
> >were faced with the possibility that if Armstrong cheated -- as they
> >believed -- they would have no clean winners back to 1996? Riis, Ullrich,
> >Pantani, Armstrong, Landis. All of a sudden they very badly need Lance
> >Armstrong to be clean.
> >
> >If they had been successful in bringing Armstrong down, that would have
> >made
> >the Tour officially the least credible race on anyone's calendar, and
> >possibly the least credible major event in sports . So instead, they're all
> >over taking Riis's yellow jersey (pathetic) and squabbling with UCI
> >(absurd).
> >
> >How can it be otherwise? The sport has a problem, and this is the highest
> >stakes race in that problem sport for everyone involved -- sponsors,
> >riders,
> >teams. And on top of everything else, the race itself is brutal. Now you
> >have UCI and ASO saying publicly they hope Rasmussen doesn't win. What a
> >disaster.
> >
> >On 7/24/07, Erik Voldengen >
> >wrote:
> >
> >On 7/24/07, Malcolm, Gary > > wrote:
> >
> >Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
> >beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now
> >I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
> >
> >
> >
> >I think it was only two missed checks, and UCI and Dutch Federation were
> >using the same database? Four warnings, but only two offenses. It takes
> >three to get suspended. Not that I think he's squeaky clean or anything,
> >I'm just sayin...
> >
> >Regarding Contador, how quickly we forget who he was riding for last year
> >(hint - Spanish guy caught with a briefcase full of money and some frozen
> >bags of blood). Not that I think he's dirty or anything, I'm just
> >saying...
> >
> >
> >-Erik
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!?
> http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2

gschreckchat@comcast.net

If you do go near there, be careful. I heard there were dragons and sea monsters.

Nice job on the e-mails. You really had me going for a while.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Karleta Reierson"

> That is why I stay away from the coast I may fall off the end. You should
> read Landis's book. It has all the evidence in there. He's cute so he must
> be right.... Right?
> Karleta
>
>
> >From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >To: "Karleta Reierson" ,
> >judson@math.harvard.edu, obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:29:12 +0000
> >
> >That has to be one of the most absurd rants I have ever heard. It should
> >be obvious to you that the tests are legitimate as many of these guys
> >initally deny everything, then later admit they doped. Yuor point about
> >the French is ridiculous. These are internationally accredited
> >laboratories and the science is sound. You probably still believe the
> >Earth is flat and roundness was an Italian conspiracy.
> >
> >--
> >
> >George Schreck
> >gschreckchat@comcast.net
> >(503) 502-0425
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >From: "Karleta Reierson"
> >
> > > The French are out to get everyone! Their just sad because their not
> > > winning. Eddy Merckx said it best "If the French want to win they just
> >have
> > > to work harder". The French busted in on three tour team busses and are
> > > constantly accusing everyone for cheeting. I am sick of hearing about
> >it,
> > > and I really dislike the French because of all of this scandal and he
> >said
> > > she said crap. Everyone needs to just keep their buisness out of the
> >racers
> > > and let them do their job! They are all amazing racers anyone of them to
> >be
> > > able to finish a three week tour.
> > > Karleta
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Thomas W. Judson"
> > > >Reply-To: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > > >
> > > >Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
> > > >judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
> > > >course. There have been false positives in the past.
> > > >--- Mike Bene wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
> > > >Preceptor in Mathematics
> > > >Department of Mathematics
> > > >Harvard University
> > > >1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
> > > >EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > >Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> > > >FareChase.
> > > >http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> > > >_______________________________________________
> > > >OBRA mailing list
> > > >obra@list.obra.org
> > > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!
> http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1
>

Karleta Reierson

OH, my god! That is funny! You guys are a lot of laughs. But seriously
lets all have fun out there and remember to look out for eachother. We all
love bikes and we all love to ride! Have a great day! LOL
Karleta

>From: "Erik Voldengen"
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:54:15 -0700
>
>Your posts are painful to read, and they are giving me diarrhea. I know
>you're having fun, but please, no more. I want to race tonight.
>
>-Erik

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com

Erik Voldengen

Your posts are painful to read, and they are giving me diarrhea. I know
you're having fun, but please, no more. I want to race tonight.

-Erik

Karleta Reierson

That is why I stay away from the coast I may fall off the end. You should
read Landis's book. It has all the evidence in there. He's cute so he must
be right.... Right?
Karleta

>From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
>To: "Karleta Reierson" ,
>judson@math.harvard.edu, obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 18:29:12 +0000
>
>That has to be one of the most absurd rants I have ever heard. It should
>be obvious to you that the tests are legitimate as many of these guys
>initally deny everything, then later admit they doped. Yuor point about
>the French is ridiculous. These are internationally accredited
>laboratories and the science is sound. You probably still believe the
>Earth is flat and roundness was an Italian conspiracy.
>
>--
>
>George Schreck
>gschreckchat@comcast.net
>(503) 502-0425
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>From: "Karleta Reierson"
>
> > The French are out to get everyone! Their just sad because their not
> > winning. Eddy Merckx said it best "If the French want to win they just
>have
> > to work harder". The French busted in on three tour team busses and are
> > constantly accusing everyone for cheeting. I am sick of hearing about
>it,
> > and I really dislike the French because of all of this scandal and he
>said
> > she said crap. Everyone needs to just keep their buisness out of the
>racers
> > and let them do their job! They are all amazing racers anyone of them to
>be
> > able to finish a three week tour.
> > Karleta
> >
> >
> > >From: "Thomas W. Judson"
> > >Reply-To: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
> > >
> > >Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
> > >judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
> > >course. There have been false positives in the past.
> > >--- Mike Bene wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> >
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
> > >Preceptor in Mathematics
> > >Department of Mathematics
> > >Harvard University
> > >1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
> > >EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________________________
> > _____
> > >Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> > >FareChase.
> > >http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >OBRA mailing list
> > >obra@list.obra.org
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Need a brain boost? Recharge with a stimulating game. Play now!?
http://club.live.com/home.aspx?icid=club_hotmailtextlink1

gschreckchat@comcast.net

I think Atana's and Vino's silence speaks volumes. The result apparently came from the test after the TT. In this case, there is not much reason to wait. These guys are going to kill professional cycling.

Of course, I suspect that if other sports had rigorous testing, these would be a lot of sports in trouble. I notice no one ever followed up on the soccer palyers that supposedly were working with Fuentes. In baseball, guys who tested positive are still playing and apparently in football, you can still pay in the playoffs, make the alll star team and be eligible for defensive player of the year after you serve your massive six-game suspension for steriods. Attendance in all those sports still sets records which only goes to show that the fans do not really care, nor do the money interests. For some reason cycling always seems to be in everyone's headlights both on the road and the press. It is not an excuse for cyclists taking drugs, just a question why the rules are not enforced a stringently for other sports. I suppose there is more moeny involved in other sports which drives everything..

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Thomas W. Judson"

> Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
> judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
> course. There have been false positives in the past.
> --- Mike Bene wrote:
>
> >
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
> Preceptor in Mathematics
> Department of Mathematics
> Harvard University
> 1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
> EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> FareChase.
> http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Karleta Reierson

Oh, Mr. Liggitt is talking out his you know what? They use EPO for cancer
patients. It can't be all bad..... I agree to disagree with what you have
to say. I think if they won they should be able to keep their title.
Karleta

>From: "Malcolm, Gary"
>To: Mark Jenkins , Erik Voldengen
>
>CC: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:03:29 -0700
>
>The least credible event in sports is Mr. No-Neck beating Hank Aarons home
>run tally, closely followed by any WWF match, followed by the Super Bowl of
>450lbs meat packages, followed by Thoroughbred Horse Racing. You get my
>point.
>
>
>
>Apparently, if you want to win a pro-cycling event you have to risk
>strokes,
>liver failure and blood poisoning in addition to 60 mph down hills. Sadly,
>these people need to be protected from themselves.
>
>
>
>It's time for the Guillotine. I agree with Phil Liggett that anyone proved
>to have doped should be banned forever and all their wins expunged back to
>junior racing, starting today. Then the same for every paid member of their
>support staff.
>
>
>
>You can tell I'm moving quickly through the shock and amazement phase
>straight to being pissed, and I can only imagine what the VS. network, SAAB
>and Subaru must be thinking
>
>
>
>
>
>Gary Malcolm
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: Mark Jenkins [mailto:mark.sopelana@gmail.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:56 AM
>To: Erik Voldengen
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>
>
>
>It's pretty clear that the amount of self-righteousness and hand wringing
>among the Tour organizers at ASO is inversely proportional to the
>credibility of the race.
>
>Does it seem to anyone else that ASO in recent months has backed off of
>Armstrong? Could it be that in the wake of the Riis confession that they
>were faced with the possibility that if Armstrong cheated -- as they
>believed -- they would have no clean winners back to 1996? Riis, Ullrich,
>Pantani, Armstrong, Landis. All of a sudden they very badly need Lance
>Armstrong to be clean.
>
>If they had been successful in bringing Armstrong down, that would have
>made
>the Tour officially the least credible race on anyone's calendar, and
>possibly the least credible major event in sports . So instead, they're all
>over taking Riis's yellow jersey (pathetic) and squabbling with UCI
>(absurd).
>
>How can it be otherwise? The sport has a problem, and this is the highest
>stakes race in that problem sport for everyone involved -- sponsors,
>riders,
>teams. And on top of everything else, the race itself is brutal. Now you
>have UCI and ASO saying publicly they hope Rasmussen doesn't win. What a
>disaster.
>
>On 7/24/07, Erik Voldengen >
>wrote:
>
>On 7/24/07, Malcolm, Gary > wrote:
>
>Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
>beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now
>I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
>
>
>
>I think it was only two missed checks, and UCI and Dutch Federation were
>using the same database? Four warnings, but only two offenses. It takes
>three to get suspended. Not that I think he's squeaky clean or anything,
>I'm just sayin...
>
>Regarding Contador, how quickly we forget who he was riding for last year
>(hint - Spanish guy caught with a briefcase full of money and some frozen
>bags of blood). Not that I think he's dirty or anything, I'm just
>saying...
>
>
>-Erik
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!?
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2

gschreckchat@comcast.net

Oddly, Fuentes has never stated who he worked with, but last year he did state that he never worked with Contador at all. My understanding is that he is no longer linked with the Fuentes investigation. Of course, the way the Spanish hold on to the information, it is hard to know anything.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mark J. Ginsberg"
if you want to be cynical about Contador, ask why he didn't race the tour last year.

operation puerto

Ginsberg

"Malcolm, Gary" wrote:
E,

Dang it. I was LOVING this tour!

Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don?t they label those things?), and now I?m thinking, ?Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else??

Like the French riders have been saying all along: Les Deux Vitesses ? ?The Two Speeds? ? those who dope - and those who do not.


I?m beginning to think they aren?t just whiners. After confirmation ban them all, and forever.


Gary Malcolm

From: Eric Kytola [mailto:Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:21 AM
To: Mike Bene; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater

sad, but who cares?

let's talk about how much of a stud Alberto Contador is!!! that guy's attack on the climbs is the best thing i have ever seen in the tour. the best!!

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mike Bene
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:43 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 227-2530
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

jboquiren@comcast.net

You missed NASCAR. Apparently mechanics have found a way to dope cars :)

Cheating will occur as long as someone sees that the benefits outweigh the costs in their skewed little minds.

Remove cash from the equation and a lot of the cheating will probably go away. Probably.

Joseph 'Will race for food' Boquiren

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Malcolm, Gary"

The least credible event in sports is Mr. No-Neck beating Hank Aarons home run tally, closely followed by any WWF match, followed by the Super Bowl of 450lbs meat packages, followed by Thoroughbred Horse Racing. You get my point.

Apparently, if you want to win a pro-cycling event you have to risk strokes, liver failure and blood poisoning in addition to 60 mph down hills. Sadly, these people need to be protected from themselves.

It?s time for the Guillotine. I agree with Phil Liggett that anyone proved to have doped should be banned forever and all their wins expunged back to junior racing, starting today. Then the same for every paid member of their support staff.

You can tell I?m moving quickly through the shock and amazement phase straight to being pissed, and I can only imagine what the VS. network, SAAB and Subaru must be thinking


Gary Malcolm

From: Mark Jenkins [mailto:mark.sopelana@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:56 AM
To: Erik Voldengen
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater

It's pretty clear that the amount of self-righteousness and hand wringing among the Tour organizers at ASO is inversely proportional to the credibility of the race.

Does it seem to anyone else that ASO in recent months has backed off of Armstrong? Could it be that in the wake of the Riis confession that they were faced with the possibility that if Armstrong cheated -- as they believed -- they would have no clean winners back to 1996? Riis, Ullrich, Pantani, Armstrong, Landis. All of a sudden they very badly need Lance Armstrong to be clean.

If they had been successful in bringing Armstrong down, that would have made the Tour officially the least credible race on anyone's calendar, and possibly the least credible major event in sports . So instead, they're all over taking Riis's yellow jersey (pathetic) and squabbling with UCI (absurd).

How can it be otherwise? The sport has a problem, and this is the highest stakes race in that problem sport for everyone involved -- sponsors, riders, teams. And on top of everything else, the race itself is brutal. Now you have UCI and ASO saying publicly they hope Rasmussen doesn't win. What a disaster.
On 7/24/07, Erik Voldengen wrote:
On 7/24/07, Malcolm, Gary wrote:
Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"

I think it was only two missed checks, and UCI and Dutch Federation were using the same database? Four warnings, but only two offenses. It takes three to get suspended. Not that I think he's squeaky clean or anything, I'm just sayin...

Regarding Contador, how quickly we forget who he was riding for last year (hint - Spanish guy caught with a briefcase full of money and some frozen bags of blood). Not that I think he's dirty or anything, I'm just saying...

-Erik

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

That has to be one of the most absurd rants I have ever heard. It should be obvious to you that the tests are legitimate as many of these guys initally deny everything, then later admit they doped. Yuor point about the French is ridiculous. These are internationally accredited laboratories and the science is sound. You probably still believe the Earth is flat and roundness was an Italian conspiracy.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Karleta Reierson"

> The French are out to get everyone! Their just sad because their not
> winning. Eddy Merckx said it best "If the French want to win they just have
> to work harder". The French busted in on three tour team busses and are
> constantly accusing everyone for cheeting. I am sick of hearing about it,
> and I really dislike the French because of all of this scandal and he said
> she said crap. Everyone needs to just keep their buisness out of the racers
> and let them do their job! They are all amazing racers anyone of them to be
> able to finish a three week tour.
> Karleta
>
>
> >From: "Thomas W. Judson"
> >Reply-To: judson@math.harvard.edu
> >To: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
> >judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
> >course. There have been false positives in the past.
> >--- Mike Bene wrote:
> >
> > >
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> >
> >
> >Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
> >Preceptor in Mathematics
> >Department of Mathematics
> >Harvard University
> >1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
> >EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________________________________________
> _____
> >Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
> >FareChase.
> >http://farechase.yahoo.com/
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Malcolm, Gary

The least credible event in sports is Mr. No-Neck beating Hank Aarons home
run tally, closely followed by any WWF match, followed by the Super Bowl of
450lbs meat packages, followed by Thoroughbred Horse Racing. You get my
point.

Apparently, if you want to win a pro-cycling event you have to risk strokes,
liver failure and blood poisoning in addition to 60 mph down hills. Sadly,
these people need to be protected from themselves.

It's time for the Guillotine. I agree with Phil Liggett that anyone proved
to have doped should be banned forever and all their wins expunged back to
junior racing, starting today. Then the same for every paid member of their
support staff.

You can tell I'm moving quickly through the shock and amazement phase
straight to being pissed, and I can only imagine what the VS. network, SAAB
and Subaru must be thinking

Gary Malcolm

_____

From: Mark Jenkins [mailto:mark.sopelana@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:56 AM
To: Erik Voldengen
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater

It's pretty clear that the amount of self-righteousness and hand wringing
among the Tour organizers at ASO is inversely proportional to the
credibility of the race.

Does it seem to anyone else that ASO in recent months has backed off of
Armstrong? Could it be that in the wake of the Riis confession that they
were faced with the possibility that if Armstrong cheated -- as they
believed -- they would have no clean winners back to 1996? Riis, Ullrich,
Pantani, Armstrong, Landis. All of a sudden they very badly need Lance
Armstrong to be clean.

If they had been successful in bringing Armstrong down, that would have made
the Tour officially the least credible race on anyone's calendar, and
possibly the least credible major event in sports . So instead, they're all
over taking Riis's yellow jersey (pathetic) and squabbling with UCI
(absurd).

How can it be otherwise? The sport has a problem, and this is the highest
stakes race in that problem sport for everyone involved -- sponsors, riders,
teams. And on top of everything else, the race itself is brutal. Now you
have UCI and ASO saying publicly they hope Rasmussen doesn't win. What a
disaster.

On 7/24/07, Erik Voldengen >
wrote:

On 7/24/07, Malcolm, Gary > wrote:

Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now
I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"

I think it was only two missed checks, and UCI and Dutch Federation were
using the same database? Four warnings, but only two offenses. It takes
three to get suspended. Not that I think he's squeaky clean or anything,
I'm just sayin...

Regarding Contador, how quickly we forget who he was riding for last year
(hint - Spanish guy caught with a briefcase full of money and some frozen
bags of blood). Not that I think he's dirty or anything, I'm just saying...

-Erik

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Karleta Reierson

You should read Landis's book. It's so good.

>From: "Mark Jenkins"
>To: "Erik Voldengen"
>CC: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:56:26 -0700
>
>It's pretty clear that the amount of self-righteousness and hand wringing
>among the Tour organizers at ASO is inversely proportional to the
>credibility of the race.
>
>Does it seem to anyone else that ASO in recent months has backed off of
>Armstrong? Could it be that in the wake of the Riis confession that they
>were faced with the possibility that if Armstrong cheated -- as they
>believed -- they would have no clean winners back to 1996? Riis, Ullrich,
>Pantani, Armstrong, Landis. All of a sudden they very badly need Lance
>Armstrong to be clean.
>
>If they had been successful in bringing Armstrong down, that would have
>made
>the Tour officially the least credible race on anyone's calendar, and
>possibly the least credible major event in sports . So instead, they're all
>over taking Riis's yellow jersey (pathetic) and squabbling with UCI
>(absurd).
>
>How can it be otherwise? The sport has a problem, and this is the highest
>stakes race in that problem sport for everyone involved -- sponsors,
>riders,
>teams. And on top of everything else, the race itself is brutal. Now you
>have UCI and ASO saying publicly they hope Rasmussen doesn't win. What a
>disaster.
>
>On 7/24/07, Erik Voldengen wrote:
>>
>>On 7/24/07, Malcolm, Gary wrote:
>> >
>> > Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
>> > beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and
>>now
>> > I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
>> >
>>
>>I think it was only two missed checks, and UCI and Dutch Federation were
>>using the same database? Four warnings, but only two offenses. It takes
>>three to get suspended. Not that I think he's squeaky clean or anything,
>>I'm just sayin...
>>
>>Regarding Contador, how quickly we forget who he was riding for last year
>>(hint - Spanish guy caught with a briefcase full of money and some frozen
>>bags of blood). Not that I think he's dirty or anything, I'm just
>>saying...
>>
>>
>>-Erik
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07

Mark Jenkins

It's pretty clear that the amount of self-righteousness and hand wringing
among the Tour organizers at ASO is inversely proportional to the
credibility of the race.

Does it seem to anyone else that ASO in recent months has backed off of
Armstrong? Could it be that in the wake of the Riis confession that they
were faced with the possibility that if Armstrong cheated -- as they
believed -- they would have no clean winners back to 1996? Riis, Ullrich,
Pantani, Armstrong, Landis. All of a sudden they very badly need Lance
Armstrong to be clean.

If they had been successful in bringing Armstrong down, that would have made
the Tour officially the least credible race on anyone's calendar, and
possibly the least credible major event in sports . So instead, they're all
over taking Riis's yellow jersey (pathetic) and squabbling with UCI
(absurd).

How can it be otherwise? The sport has a problem, and this is the highest
stakes race in that problem sport for everyone involved -- sponsors, riders,
teams. And on top of everything else, the race itself is brutal. Now you
have UCI and ASO saying publicly they hope Rasmussen doesn't win. What a
disaster.

On 7/24/07, Erik Voldengen wrote:
>
> On 7/24/07, Malcolm, Gary wrote:
> >
> > Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
> > beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now
> > I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
> >
>
> I think it was only two missed checks, and UCI and Dutch Federation were
> using the same database? Four warnings, but only two offenses. It takes
> three to get suspended. Not that I think he's squeaky clean or anything,
> I'm just sayin...
>
> Regarding Contador, how quickly we forget who he was riding for last year
> (hint - Spanish guy caught with a briefcase full of money and some frozen
> bags of blood). Not that I think he's dirty or anything, I'm just saying...
>
>
> -Erik
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Karleta Reierson

What point exactly? That we all have way to much time on our hands.....

>From: "Joe Cipale"
>Reply-To: joec@aracnet.com
>To: "Karleta Reierson"
>CC: gary@hawesfinancial.com, Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com, mikebene@gmail.com,
> obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:50:19 -0700
>
>Wow... someone is missing the point here altogether.
>
>Time to ride the bike...
>
>Karleta Reierson wrote:
>
> > Are you guys all on crack out there? Seriously do some research before
>you
> > write into this. The directors tell the racers what to do, and the
>racers
> > do what the directors tell them to do. They put in a lot of extra junk
> > miles the first week. Most of their heart rates wern't even over 130.
>Come
> > on you guys you can save a lot of energy drafting and waiting to attack
>when
> > you need to. That is exactly what Contrador did. I think they are all
> > amazing no matter what they are doing on the side it really doesn't
>matter.
> > They are all amazing to make it through a whole three weeks!
> > Karleta
> >
> >
> > >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> > >To: Eric Kytola , Mike Bene
> > >,obra@list.obra.org
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:23:56 -0700
> > >
> > >E,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Dang it. I was LOVING this tour!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
> > >beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and
>now
> > >I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Like the French riders have been saying all along: Les Deux Vitesses -
>"The
> > >Two Speeds" ... those who dope - and those who do not.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >I'm beginning to think they aren't just whiners. After confirmation ban
> > >them
> > >all, and forever.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Gary Malcolm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >From: Eric Kytola [mailto:Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com]
> > >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:21 AM
> > >To: Mike Bene; obra@list.obra.org
> > >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >sad, but who cares?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >let's talk about how much of a stud Alberto Contador is!!! that guy's
> > >attack
> > >on the climbs is the best thing i have ever seen in the tour. the
>best!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > >Behalf Of Mike Bene
> > >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:43 AM
> > >To: obra@list.obra.org
> > >Subject: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > >news>
> >
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25n
> > >ews
> > >
> >
> >
> > >_______________________________________________
> > >OBRA mailing list
> > >obra@list.obra.org
> > >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> >
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com

Joe Cipale

Wow... someone is missing the point here altogether.

Time to ride the bike...

Karleta Reierson wrote:

> Are you guys all on crack out there? Seriously do some research before you
> write into this. The directors tell the racers what to do, and the racers
> do what the directors tell them to do. They put in a lot of extra junk
> miles the first week. Most of their heart rates wern't even over 130. Come
> on you guys you can save a lot of energy drafting and waiting to attack when
> you need to. That is exactly what Contrador did. I think they are all
> amazing no matter what they are doing on the side it really doesn't matter.
> They are all amazing to make it through a whole three weeks!
> Karleta
>
>
> >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> >To: Eric Kytola , Mike Bene
> >,obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:23:56 -0700
> >
> >E,
> >
> >
> >
> >Dang it. I was LOVING this tour!
> >
> >
> >
> >Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
> >beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now
> >I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
> >
> >
> >
> >Like the French riders have been saying all along: Les Deux Vitesses - "The
> >Two Speeds" ... those who dope - and those who do not.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm beginning to think they aren't just whiners. After confirmation ban
> >them
> >all, and forever.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Gary Malcolm
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >From: Eric Kytola [mailto:Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:21 AM
> >To: Mike Bene; obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >
> >
> >
> >sad, but who cares?
> >
> >
> >
> >let's talk about how much of a stud Alberto Contador is!!! that guy's
> >attack
> >on the climbs is the best thing i have ever seen in the tour. the best!!
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> >Behalf Of Mike Bene
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:43 AM
> >To: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >
> >
> > >news>
> >http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25n
> >ews
> >
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Karleta Reierson

Are you guys all on crack out there? Seriously do some research before you
write into this. The directors tell the racers what to do, and the racers
do what the directors tell them to do. They put in a lot of extra junk
miles the first week. Most of their heart rates wern't even over 130. Come
on you guys you can save a lot of energy drafting and waiting to attack when
you need to. That is exactly what Contrador did. I think they are all
amazing no matter what they are doing on the side it really doesn't matter.
They are all amazing to make it through a whole three weeks!
Karleta

>From: "Malcolm, Gary"
>To: Eric Kytola , Mike Bene
>,obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:23:56 -0700
>
>E,
>
>
>
>Dang it. I was LOVING this tour!
>
>
>
>Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
>beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now
>I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
>
>
>
>Like the French riders have been saying all along: Les Deux Vitesses - "The
>Two Speeds" ... those who dope - and those who do not.
>
>
>
>
>
>I'm beginning to think they aren't just whiners. After confirmation ban
>them
>all, and forever.
>
>
>
>
>
>Gary Malcolm
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: Eric Kytola [mailto:Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:21 AM
>To: Mike Bene; obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>
>
>
>sad, but who cares?
>
>
>
>let's talk about how much of a stud Alberto Contador is!!! that guy's
>attack
>on the climbs is the best thing i have ever seen in the tour. the best!!
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>Behalf Of Mike Bene
>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:43 AM
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>
>
>news>
>http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25n
>ews
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507

Karleta Reierson

The French are out to get everyone! Their just sad because their not
winning. Eddy Merckx said it best "If the French want to win they just have
to work harder". The French busted in on three tour team busses and are
constantly accusing everyone for cheeting. I am sick of hearing about it,
and I really dislike the French because of all of this scandal and he said
she said crap. Everyone needs to just keep their buisness out of the racers
and let them do their job! They are all amazing racers anyone of them to be
able to finish a three week tour.
Karleta

>From: "Thomas W. Judson"
>Reply-To: judson@math.harvard.edu
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
>judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
>course. There have been false positives in the past.
>--- Mike Bene wrote:
>
> >
>http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
>Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
>Preceptor in Mathematics
>Department of Mathematics
>Harvard University
>1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
>EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
>Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo!
>FareChase.
>http://farechase.yahoo.com/
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=hmtextlinkjuly07

Erik Voldengen

On 7/24/07, Malcolm, Gary wrote:
>
> Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
> beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now
> I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
>

I think it was only two missed checks, and UCI and Dutch Federation were
using the same database? Four warnings, but only two offenses. It takes
three to get suspended. Not that I think he's squeaky clean or anything,
I'm just sayin...

Regarding Contador, how quickly we forget who he was riding for last year
(hint - Spanish guy caught with a briefcase full of money and some frozen
bags of blood). Not that I think he's dirty or anything, I'm just saying...

-Erik

Mark J. Ginsberg

if you want to be cynical about Contador, ask why he didn't race the tour last year.

operation puerto

Ginsberg

"Malcolm, Gary" wrote: v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} E,

Dang it. I was LOVING this tour!

Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don?t they label those things?), and now I?m thinking, ?Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else??

Like the French riders have been saying all along: Les Deux Vitesses ? ?The Two Speeds? ? those who dope - and those who do not.


I?m beginning to think they aren?t just whiners. After confirmation ban them all, and forever.


Gary Malcolm


---------------------------------

From: Eric Kytola [mailto:Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:21 AM
To: Mike Bene; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater


sad, but who cares?

let's talk about how much of a stud Alberto Contador is!!! that guy's attack on the climbs is the best thing i have ever seen in the tour. the best!!


---------------------------------

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Mike Bene
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:43 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
621 SW Morrison St., Ste. 900
Portland, OR 97204
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 227-2530
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

---------------------------------
Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.
Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.

Malcolm, Gary

E,

Dang it. I was LOVING this tour!

Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now
I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"

Like the French riders have been saying all along: Les Deux Vitesses - "The
Two Speeds" ... those who dope - and those who do not.

I'm beginning to think they aren't just whiners. After confirmation ban them
all, and forever.

Gary Malcolm

_____

From: Eric Kytola [mailto:Eric.Kytola@kingrs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:21 AM
To: Mike Bene; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater

sad, but who cares?

let's talk about how much of a stud Alberto Contador is!!! that guy's attack
on the climbs is the best thing i have ever seen in the tour. the best!!

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Bene
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:43 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25n
ews

Rick Johnson

Maybe because they didn't get caught before.



Another Tour goes down to infamy... but at least no one has been
arrested for dog fighting.



Rick





Keith A. Prior wrote:

Why or WHY do these people think they wont
get caught?!!!!!!

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On Behalf Of Mike Bene

Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:43 AM

To: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

  

Eric Kytola

sad, but who cares?

let's talk about how much of a stud Alberto Contador is!!! that guy's
attack on the climbs is the best thing i have ever seen in the tour.
the best!!

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Bene
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:43 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/ju
l25news

Thomas W. Judson

Let's wait for the B sample to come back before we
judge Vino as a cheater. Let the process run its
course. There have been false positives in the past.
--- Mike Bene wrote:

>
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news
> > _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Thomas W. Judson, Ph.D.
Preceptor in Mathematics
Department of Mathematics
Harvard University
1 Oxford Street, Cambridge, MA 02138
EMAIL: judson@math.harvard.edu

____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
http://farechase.yahoo.com/

Keith A. Prior

Why or WHY do these people think they wont get caught?!!!!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
Behalf Of Mike Bene
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 9:43 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25n
ews

Mike Bene

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/news/?id=/news/2007/jul07/jul25news