Re: It can't be all bad...

Karleta Reierson

2007-07-24

Everyone needs to make a buck...

>From: "Harry Phinney"
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] It can't be all bad...
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 12:18:59 -0700
>
>I don't know if Karleta was being serious or sarcastic, but in any case
>it's
>at best na?ve to think that simply because a drug is used in the treatment
>of a disease that it's good for an otherwise healthy person. There have
>also
>been study results that raise questions regarding the safety of these drugs
>for cancer and kidney patients. Following are some limited excerpts from a
>New York Times article dated February 27 of this year. Note that if you add
>up the dollars, the companies sell over $11.5B of these drugs each year.
>
>
>
>New studies are raising questions about whether drugs that have been used
>by
>millions of cancer patients might actually be harming them.
>
>The drugs, sold by Amgen, Roche and Johnson & Johnson, are used to treat
>anemia caused by chemotherapy and meant to reduce the need for blood
>transfusions and give patients more energy. But the new results suggest
>that
>the drugs may make the cancer itself worse.
>.....
>?These are drugs that were presumed to be entirely safe, given for
>supportive care and to improve quality of life,? not to actually treat
>cancer, said Dr. Eric Winer, director of breast oncology center at the
>Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston. ?So any concern that they could
>shorten someone?s life are taken quite seriously.?
>.....
>All the drugs are versions of erythropoietin, or Epo, a substance made by
>the human kidney that increases levels of hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying
>component of red blood cells.
>
>Amgen makes Aranesp, with sales of $4.1 billion last year, as well as
>Epogen, which had sales of $2.5 billion, although Epogen is supposed to be
>used only to treat anemia in kidney dialysis patients.
>
>Under license from Amgen, Johnson & Johnson sells Procrit in the United
>States and Eprex abroad, with combined sales last year of $3.2 billion.
>
>Roche?s drugs NeoRecormon and Epogin, now sold only outside the United
>States, had sales last year of $1.8 billion. But Roche is hoping to enter
>the American market with a new drug called Cera.
>.....
>The new doubts about cancer safety add to those raised recently regarding
>the drugs? other major use ? to treat anemia caused by kidney disease. A
>study published in The New England Journal of Medicine in November found
>that patients treated aggressively with Procrit had a higher risk of heart
>problems or death than those treated less aggressively.
>
>The run of bad news for cancer treatment started in late January when Amgen
>announced that in one of its clinical trials, patients getting Aranesp were
>more likely to die than those getting placebo. The trial was testing the
>drug in patients whose anemia was caused by the cancer itself, not by
>chemotherapy.
>
>On Feb. 16, the Cancer Letter, an influential Washington newsletter,
>reported that a Danish study in patients with head and neck cancer had been
>stopped early because the cancer seemed to recur more in patients being
>treated with Aranesp.
>
>Last week, The Journal of Clinical Oncology published a paper online
>describing a small Canadian trial in lung cancer patients that had been
>stopped early because those getting Eprex were dying sooner.
>
>And on Friday, Roche said it was suspending patient enrollment in a lung
>cancer trial comparing its Cera against Amgen?s Aranesp because of
>apparently greater than expected number of deaths in at least some of the
>arms of the trial.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>Behalf Of Karleta Reierson
>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:38 AM
>To: gary@hawesfinancial.com; mark.sopelana@gmail.com; erikv@erikv.com
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>
>Oh, Mr. Liggitt is talking out his you know what? They use EPO for cancer
>patients. It can't be all bad..... I agree to disagree with what you have
>to say. I think if they won they should be able to keep their title.
>Karleta
>
>
> >From: "Malcolm, Gary"
> >To: Mark Jenkins , Erik Voldengen
> >
> >CC: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:03:29 -0700
> >
> >The least credible event in sports is Mr. No-Neck beating Hank Aarons
>home
> >run tally, closely followed by any WWF match, followed by the Super Bowl
>of
> >450lbs meat packages, followed by Thoroughbred Horse Racing. You get my
> >point.
> >
> >
> >
> >Apparently, if you want to win a pro-cycling event you have to risk
> >strokes,
> >liver failure and blood poisoning in addition to 60 mph down hills.
>Sadly,
> >these people need to be protected from themselves.
> >
> >
> >
> >It's time for the Guillotine. I agree with Phil Liggett that anyone
>proved
> >to have doped should be banned forever and all their wins expunged back
>to
> >junior racing, starting today. Then the same for every paid member of
>their
> >support staff.
> >
> >
> >
> >You can tell I'm moving quickly through the shock and amazement phase
> >straight to being pissed, and I can only imagine what the VS. network,
>SAAB
> >and Subaru must be thinking
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Gary Malcolm
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> >From: Mark Jenkins [mailto:mark.sopelana@gmail.com]
> >Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:56 AM
> >To: Erik Voldengen
> >Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
> >
> >
> >
> >It's pretty clear that the amount of self-righteousness and hand wringing
> >among the Tour organizers at ASO is inversely proportional to the
> >credibility of the race.
> >
> >Does it seem to anyone else that ASO in recent months has backed off of
> >Armstrong? Could it be that in the wake of the Riis confession that they
> >were faced with the possibility that if Armstrong cheated -- as they
> >believed -- they would have no clean winners back to 1996? Riis, Ullrich,
> >Pantani, Armstrong, Landis. All of a sudden they very badly need Lance
> >Armstrong to be clean.
> >
> >If they had been successful in bringing Armstrong down, that would have
> >made
> >the Tour officially the least credible race on anyone's calendar, and
> >possibly the least credible major event in sports . So instead, they're
>all
> >over taking Riis's yellow jersey (pathetic) and squabbling with UCI
> >(absurd).
> >
> >How can it be otherwise? The sport has a problem, and this is the highest
> >stakes race in that problem sport for everyone involved -- sponsors,
> >riders,
> >teams. And on top of everything else, the race itself is brutal. Now you
> >have UCI and ASO saying publicly they hope Rasmussen doesn't win. What a
> >disaster.
> >
> >On 7/24/07, Erik Voldengen >
> >wrote:
> >
> >On 7/24/07, Malcolm, Gary > > wrote:
> >
> >Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
> >beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and
>now
> >I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
> >
> >
> >
> >I think it was only two missed checks, and UCI and Dutch Federation were
> >using the same database? Four warnings, but only two offenses. It
>takes
> >three to get suspended. Not that I think he's squeaky clean or anything,
> >I'm just sayin...
> >
> >Regarding Contador, how quickly we forget who he was riding for last year
> >(hint - Spanish guy caught with a briefcase full of money and some frozen
> >bags of blood). Not that I think he's dirty or anything, I'm just
> >saying...
> >
> >
> >-Erik
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
>http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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Harry Phinney

2007-07-24

I don't know if Karleta was being serious or sarcastic, but in any case it's
at best naïve to think that simply because a drug is used in the treatment
of a disease that it's good for an otherwise healthy person. There have also
been study results that raise questions regarding the safety of these drugs
for cancer and kidney patients. Following are some limited excerpts from a
New York Times article dated February 27 of this year. Note that if you add
up the dollars, the companies sell over $11.5B of these drugs each year.

New studies are raising questions about whether drugs that have been used by
millions of cancer patients might actually be harming them.

The drugs, sold by Amgen, Roche and Johnson & Johnson, are used to treat
anemia caused by chemotherapy and meant to reduce the need for blood
transfusions and give patients more energy. But the new results suggest that
the drugs may make the cancer itself worse.
.....
?These are drugs that were presumed to be entirely safe, given for
supportive care and to improve quality of life,? not to actually treat
cancer, said Dr. Eric Winer, director of breast oncology center at the
Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston. ?So any concern that they could
shorten someone?s life are taken quite seriously.?
.....
All the drugs are versions of erythropoietin, or Epo, a substance made by
the human kidney that increases levels of hemoglobin, the oxygen-carrying
component of red blood cells.

Amgen makes Aranesp, with sales of $4.1 billion last year, as well as
Epogen, which had sales of $2.5 billion, although Epogen is supposed to be
used only to treat anemia in kidney dialysis patients.

Under license from Amgen, Johnson & Johnson sells Procrit in the United
States and Eprex abroad, with combined sales last year of $3.2 billion.

Roche?s drugs NeoRecormon and Epogin, now sold only outside the United
States, had sales last year of $1.8 billion. But Roche is hoping to enter
the American market with a new drug called Cera.
.....
The new doubts about cancer safety add to those raised recently regarding
the drugs? other major use ? to treat anemia caused by kidney disease. A
study published in The New England Journal of Medicine in November found
that patients treated aggressively with Procrit had a higher risk of heart
problems or death than those treated less aggressively.

The run of bad news for cancer treatment started in late January when Amgen
announced that in one of its clinical trials, patients getting Aranesp were
more likely to die than those getting placebo. The trial was testing the
drug in patients whose anemia was caused by the cancer itself, not by
chemotherapy.

On Feb. 16, the Cancer Letter, an influential Washington newsletter,
reported that a Danish study in patients with head and neck cancer had been
stopped early because the cancer seemed to recur more in patients being
treated with Aranesp.

Last week, The Journal of Clinical Oncology published a paper online
describing a small Canadian trial in lung cancer patients that had been
stopped early because those getting Eprex were dying sooner.

And on Friday, Roche said it was suspending patient enrollment in a lung
cancer trial comparing its Cera against Amgen?s Aranesp because of
apparently greater than expected number of deaths in at least some of the
arms of the trial.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Karleta Reierson
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 11:38 AM
To: gary@hawesfinancial.com; mark.sopelana@gmail.com; erikv@erikv.com
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater

Oh, Mr. Liggitt is talking out his you know what? They use EPO for cancer
patients. It can't be all bad..... I agree to disagree with what you have
to say. I think if they won they should be able to keep their title.
Karleta

>From: "Malcolm, Gary"
>To: Mark Jenkins , Erik Voldengen
>
>CC: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 11:03:29 -0700
>
>The least credible event in sports is Mr. No-Neck beating Hank Aarons home
>run tally, closely followed by any WWF match, followed by the Super Bowl of
>450lbs meat packages, followed by Thoroughbred Horse Racing. You get my
>point.
>
>
>
>Apparently, if you want to win a pro-cycling event you have to risk
>strokes,
>liver failure and blood poisoning in addition to 60 mph down hills. Sadly,
>these people need to be protected from themselves.
>
>
>
>It's time for the Guillotine. I agree with Phil Liggett that anyone proved
>to have doped should be banned forever and all their wins expunged back to
>junior racing, starting today. Then the same for every paid member of their
>support staff.
>
>
>
>You can tell I'm moving quickly through the shock and amazement phase
>straight to being pissed, and I can only imagine what the VS. network, SAAB
>and Subaru must be thinking
>
>
>
>
>
>Gary Malcolm
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: Mark Jenkins [mailto:mark.sopelana@gmail.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2007 10:56 AM
>To: Erik Voldengen
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vino = cheater
>
>
>
>It's pretty clear that the amount of self-righteousness and hand wringing
>among the Tour organizers at ASO is inversely proportional to the
>credibility of the race.
>
>Does it seem to anyone else that ASO in recent months has backed off of
>Armstrong? Could it be that in the wake of the Riis confession that they
>were faced with the possibility that if Armstrong cheated -- as they
>believed -- they would have no clean winners back to 1996? Riis, Ullrich,
>Pantani, Armstrong, Landis. All of a sudden they very badly need Lance
>Armstrong to be clean.
>
>If they had been successful in bringing Armstrong down, that would have
>made
>the Tour officially the least credible race on anyone's calendar, and
>possibly the least credible major event in sports . So instead, they're all
>over taking Riis's yellow jersey (pathetic) and squabbling with UCI
>(absurd).
>
>How can it be otherwise? The sport has a problem, and this is the highest
>stakes race in that problem sport for everyone involved -- sponsors,
>riders,
>teams. And on top of everything else, the race itself is brutal. Now you
>have UCI and ASO saying publicly they hope Rasmussen doesn't win. What a
>disaster.
>
>On 7/24/07, Erik Voldengen >
>wrote:
>
>On 7/24/07, Malcolm, Gary > wrote:
>
>Then four sketchy Rasmussen training disappearances make the press, My
>beloved Vino mixes up blood bags (don't they label those things?), and now
>I'm thinking, "Why is Contador SOOOO much better than anyone else?"
>
>
>
>I think it was only two missed checks, and UCI and Dutch Federation were
>using the same database? Four warnings, but only two offenses. It takes
>three to get suspended. Not that I think he's squeaky clean or anything,
>I'm just sayin...
>
>Regarding Contador, how quickly we forget who he was riding for last year
>(hint - Spanish guy caught with a briefcase full of money and some frozen
>bags of blood). Not that I think he's dirty or anything, I'm just
>saying...
>
>
>-Erik
>
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2