Jason A. Skelton

Or they could follow the American sports model, like baseball--ignore and deny a problem in the face of all obviousness and then implement a showy but ineffective testing regime. Cycling, for whatever reason, actually wants to be "clean." By contrast, baseball and american football prefer money.

Michael O'Hair wrote: There is a precedent for this: body-building. There are now "clean" and
"open" divisions.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Emily"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:16 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] next year's tour

> let's make it a free for all-legalize all drugs, no tests, survival of the
> fittest. let them die young and fast-population control of a new kind.
> no strings attached, almost like a cage fight of cycling. a chance to get
> it out of your system-like letting NASCAR remove all govenor
> restrictors-and taking no responsibilities for the consquences.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

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Karsten Hagen

Pound is actually leaving this year, isn't he? Either way, doping has been a part of euro-pro cycling for decades. Didn't Anquetil admit to rampant amphetamine use? (the Anquetil cocktail) and of course, Tom Simpson, etc.
It's almost as if, like politics, a sport can rise to a level of corruption and collapse under its own weight.
The bright spot here is that we have plenty of great local racing to focus on. Why get up at 5am to watch a bunch of dopers as they call their team cars on their radios (another stupid nuisance) and ride bikes nobody can really afford in a race that's 5,000 miles away?
Go watch the Courthouse Crit instead! Hell, even PIR is pretty dramatic.

Karsten> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:16:01 -0700> From: joec@aracnet.com> To: martinbaker67@comcast.net> CC: obra@list.obra.org; ermartini77@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] next year's tour> > The minute they put dick Pound-sand in power is the moment that the first part failed. Sack Pound and replace WADA with a better run organization and labs with a clearer and more defined process and (may) begin to clean up the sport. Until then, it is all just fluff and fancy...> > Joe> > Martin Baker wrote:> > > Nice. Tell that to our young and talented juniors - that if they dream of> > competing at that level, they'll have to pump their bodies full of drugs and> > other people's blood (and risk their lives and health) to do it.> > > > The only solution is strict testing with draconian penalties. But the flip> > side is that the current system run by Dick Pound and WADA is greatly> > lacking in integrity, transparency, fairness, and due process. The first> > part is doomed to fail without the second part. > > > > -----Original Message-----> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On> > Behalf Of Emily> > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:16 PM> > To: obra@list.obra.org> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] next year's tour> > > > let's make it a free for all-legalize all drugs, no tests, survival of the> > fittest. let them die young and fast-population control of a new kind. no> > strings attached, almost like a cage fight of cycling. a chance to get it> > out of your system-like letting NASCAR remove all govenor restrictors-and> > taking no responsibilities for the consquences.> > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > > > > > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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Jay Rideout

Agree with Martin on this one.

When you see already see the effects of artificial performance enhancements (PEDS, doping... ) taking place at the high school level in other sports just so a student can make the team, and, most likely, HS sports will be all the further their sports career will go, it's a very sad situation. I think that cycling has really taken the lead on this and, hopefully, can get to that zero tolorance point. I would like to see all professional sports seriously move down this same path...

Parents and coaches need to be sanctioned on this also... at the jr high/high school level most children are receiving some form adult guidence and encouragement.
Jay

----- Original Message ----
From: Joe Cipale
To: Martin Baker
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Emily
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:16:01 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] next year's tour

The minute they put dick Pound-sand in power is the moment that the first part failed. Sack Pound and replace WADA with a better run organization and labs with a clearer and more defined process and (may) begin to clean up the sport. Until then, it is all just fluff and fancy...

Joe

Martin Baker wrote:

> Nice. Tell that to our young and talented juniors - that if they dream of
> competing at that level, they'll have to pump their bodies full of drugs and
> other people's blood (and risk their lives and health) to do it.
>
> The only solution is strict testing with draconian penalties. But the flip
> side is that the current system run by Dick Pound and WADA is greatly
> lacking in integrity, transparency, fairness, and due process. The first
> part is doomed to fail without the second part.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Emily
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:16 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] next year's tour
>
> let's make it a free for all-legalize all drugs, no tests, survival of the
> fittest. let them die young and fast-population control of a new kind. no
> strings attached, almost like a cage fight of cycling. a chance to get it
> out of your system-like letting NASCAR remove all govenor restrictors-and
> taking no responsibilities for the consquences.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Joe Cipale

The minute they put dick Pound-sand in power is the moment that the first part failed. Sack Pound and replace WADA with a better run organization and labs with a clearer and more defined process and (may) begin to clean up the sport. Until then, it is all just fluff and fancy...

Joe

Martin Baker wrote:

> Nice. Tell that to our young and talented juniors - that if they dream of
> competing at that level, they'll have to pump their bodies full of drugs and
> other people's blood (and risk their lives and health) to do it.
>
> The only solution is strict testing with draconian penalties. But the flip
> side is that the current system run by Dick Pound and WADA is greatly
> lacking in integrity, transparency, fairness, and due process. The first
> part is doomed to fail without the second part.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Emily
> Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:16 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] next year's tour
>
> let's make it a free for all-legalize all drugs, no tests, survival of the
> fittest. let them die young and fast-population control of a new kind. no
> strings attached, almost like a cage fight of cycling. a chance to get it
> out of your system-like letting NASCAR remove all govenor restrictors-and
> taking no responsibilities for the consquences.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Martin Baker

Nice. Tell that to our young and talented juniors - that if they dream of
competing at that level, they'll have to pump their bodies full of drugs and
other people's blood (and risk their lives and health) to do it.

The only solution is strict testing with draconian penalties. But the flip
side is that the current system run by Dick Pound and WADA is greatly
lacking in integrity, transparency, fairness, and due process. The first
part is doomed to fail without the second part.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Emily
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:16 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] next year's tour

let's make it a free for all-legalize all drugs, no tests, survival of the
fittest. let them die young and fast-population control of a new kind. no
strings attached, almost like a cage fight of cycling. a chance to get it
out of your system-like letting NASCAR remove all govenor restrictors-and
taking no responsibilities for the consquences.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Michael O'Hair

There is a precedent for this: body-building. There are now "clean" and
"open" divisions.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Emily"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:16 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] next year's tour

> let's make it a free for all-legalize all drugs, no tests, survival of the
> fittest. let them die young and fast-population control of a new kind.
> no strings attached, almost like a cage fight of cycling. a chance to get
> it out of your system-like letting NASCAR remove all govenor
> restrictors-and taking no responsibilities for the consquences.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Emily

let's make it a free for all-legalize all drugs, no tests, survival of the fittest. let them die young and fast-population control of a new kind. no strings attached, almost like a cage fight of cycling. a chance to get it out of your system-like letting NASCAR remove all govenor restrictors-and taking no responsibilities for the consquences.