Kirk Willett

Unfortunately, the potential performance gains from doping can be amplified over the course of a mass start event, and further from day to day in tours. That being said, it?s apparent to me that gains from doping in general can range from nominal to career transformational within an approximate level of the sport.

At a minimum, education about the potential performance gains from doping can help to deter substance abuse which is unlikely to improve performance or change someone?s sporting career.

There has been no avoiding the pink elephant which is now on public display. Even when doping was a pubic ?secret? prior to the 1998 Tour, up and coming athletes were on a collision course.

Kirk

Date: 07/26/2007 03:28 PM
From: Mike Murray

The counter points are:

- Uphill TT: In an uphill TT the difference is bigger but in a mass start
road event the difference would be smaller. If the event was rope climbing
the difference would be even bigger.
- Grand tour TT: The time differences between leaders and back of the pack
riders are not unique to grand tour events but also apply to stand alone
events. If anything you would expect the difference at stand alone events
to be even smaller as poor time trialist are less likely to start.
- David Millar; You have to love studies with an N of 1. David Millar 2006
World TT Championship 15th, not last (52 riders), 3 seconds back. TDF
places; 2000 62nd, 2002 68th, 2003 55th, 2007 currently 68th (with a bizarre
skin issue).

I am not arguing that blood boosting is not effective. There is no question
that it is. The argument is over just how much. It does no good to
overstate the performance increase as this only encourages use.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of galen mittermann
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)

2 minutes in a TT is a 3% speed difference (purely overcoming wind
resistance) for both riders going flat out - and an 8.9% power difference at
400W vs 436W. Most riders in a grand tour don't go all out in a TT, usually
just enough to make the time cut. The GC contenders are the only ones going
to the limit. Hence domestiques being 10minutes back. Uphill, that power
difference is going to make a much greater time difference since power to
weight ratios matter more and mroe and aerodynamic drag drops off
considerably.

To put it in perspective most of us can relate to: 436W @ 70kg (154 lbs) is
the same as 400W @ 64.3kg (141.5 lbs)... in other words, that 9% more power
gains you the same as loosing 5.7kg (12.5lbs) when the road gets steep, for
an already skinny pro cyclist.

For a good real world feel for the difference drugs make, take a look at
David Millar:
pre-drugs: stage winner. big time rider. world champ.
post-drugs: strong domestique, nothing extraordinary. an also-ran.

Mike Murray

The counter points are:

- Uphill TT: In an uphill TT the difference is bigger but in a mass start
road event the difference would be smaller. If the event was rope climbing
the difference would be even bigger.
- Grand tour TT: The time differences between leaders and back of the pack
riders are not unique to grand tour events but also apply to stand alone
events. If anything you would expect the difference at stand alone events
to be even smaller as poor time trialist are less likely to start.
- David Millar; You have to love studies with an N of 1. David Millar 2006
World TT Championship 15th, not last (52 riders), 3 seconds back. TDF
places; 2000 62nd, 2002 68th, 2003 55th, 2007 currently 68th (with a bizarre
skin issue).

I am not arguing that blood boosting is not effective. There is no question
that it is. The argument is over just how much. It does no good to
overstate the performance increase as this only encourages use.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of galen mittermann
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)

2 minutes in a TT is a 3% speed difference (purely overcoming wind
resistance) for both riders going flat out - and an 8.9% power difference at
400W vs 436W. Most riders in a grand tour don't go all out in a TT, usually
just enough to make the time cut. The GC contenders are the only ones going
to the limit. Hence domestiques being 10minutes back. Uphill, that power
difference is going to make a much greater time difference since power to
weight ratios matter more and mroe and aerodynamic drag drops off
considerably.

To put it in perspective most of us can relate to: 436W @ 70kg (154 lbs) is
the same as 400W @ 64.3kg (141.5 lbs)... in other words, that 9% more power
gains you the same as loosing 5.7kg (12.5lbs) when the road gets steep, for
an already skinny pro cyclist.

For a good real world feel for the difference drugs make, take a look at
David Millar:
pre-drugs: stage winner. big time rider. world champ.
post-drugs: strong domestique, nothing extraordinary. an also-ran.

-----Original Message-----

Although 2 minutes in one hour is huge it is on the order of the difference
between 1st and 10th in a TT. Somewhat less that the difference between a
top rider and a mediocre domestique which is more on the order of 10
minutes. The difference is 3% rather than the 10% earlier suggested.

My recurring point is that it is not good to oversell the benefit of doping.

This only acts as marketing to increase doping. The same can be said for
the current testing program which focuses on only elite athletes ensuring
that the only athletes caught will be elite athletes. This sends out the
message that you have to dope in order to perform well, which is not true.
Catching non-elite dopers would send a much more accurate message.

The bottom line is that this is not so much a cheating issue, as it is most
commonly presented, but more of an issue of substance abuse.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of galen mittermann
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:10 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)

There was just an interesting thread about this on the google wattage lists.

Some of the posting, regarding "How much does doping help?" is copied below.

For clarity: AWC = anaerobic work capacity, CP = critical power, FTP =
functional threshold power

The whole thing is here, in case anyone is subscribed
http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/d3391fb39060e818

/7e6b8af72e1217de#7e6b8af72e1217de

"I thought I saw this sort of calculation here before,
but haven't had any luck finding it. To keep things
simple, let's just consider EPO/blood transfusions.

Suppose you have an FTP of 400 and you use
EPO or tranfusions to raise your hematocrit from
42 to 49. How much would Vino's -- er, I mean "your"
FTP increase to?

For extra credit, would this have accounted for
the entire gap in the ITT?

-- jens "

"I don't know but I thought this was interesting. . .

If I understand the abstract, reduce haematocrit by 3%, reduce VO2max by 3%,

I couldn't tell you the direct effect on FTP.

http://tinyurl.com/2reu98

Jason. "

"Hematocrit was reduced from 44% to 41% ( 93.2% ), reducing VO2peak
from 3.79 to 3.64 (96.0%). This is suggests a transfer ratio of
ln(0.960)/ln(0.932) = 0.57.

So Rider V's CP, assuming proportional to VO2peak, would increase
(49/42)^0.57 - 1 = 9.2%.

Assuming AWC stays the same, and AWC/CP = 2 minutes, then AWC accounts
for 1/30th of the power in a 1 hour time trial, and therefore FTP
increases by 30/31 * 9.2% = 8.9% to 436 watts. This would shave a bit
more than 2 minutes from a 1 hour time trial.

Dan "

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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
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Erik Long

Well said, sir.

----Original Message Follows----
From: galen mittermann
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:25:28 -0700

2 minutes in a TT is a 3% speed difference (purely overcoming wind
resistance) for both riders going flat out - and an 8.9% power difference at
400W vs 436W. Most riders in a grand tour don't go all out in a TT, usually
just enough to make the time cut. The GC contenders are the only ones going
to the limit. Hence domestiques being 10minutes back. Uphill, that power
difference is going to make a much greater time difference since power to
weight ratios matter more and mroe and aerodynamic drag drops off
considerably.

To put it in perspective most of us can relate to: 436W @ 70kg (154 lbs) is
the same as 400W @ 64.3kg (141.5 lbs)... in other words, that 9% more power
gains you the same as loosing 5.7kg (12.5lbs) when the road gets steep, for
an already skinny pro cyclist.

For a good real world feel for the difference drugs make, take a look at
David Millar:
pre-drugs: stage winner. big time rider. world champ.
post-drugs: strong domestique, nothing extraordinary. an also-ran.

-----Original Message-----

Although 2 minutes in one hour is huge it is on the order of the difference
between 1st and 10th in a TT. Somewhat less that the difference between a
top rider and a mediocre domestique which is more on the order of 10
minutes. The difference is 3% rather than the 10% earlier suggested.

My recurring point is that it is not good to oversell the benefit of doping.
This only acts as marketing to increase doping. The same can be said for
the current testing program which focuses on only elite athletes ensuring
that the only athletes caught will be elite athletes. This sends out the
message that you have to dope in order to perform well, which is not true.
Catching non-elite dopers would send a much more accurate message.

The bottom line is that this is not so much a cheating issue, as it is most
commonly presented, but more of an issue of substance abuse.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of galen mittermann
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:10 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)

There was just an interesting thread about this on the google wattage lists.
Some of the posting, regarding "How much does doping help?" is copied below.
For clarity: AWC = anaerobic work capacity, CP = critical power, FTP =
functional threshold power

The whole thing is here, in case anyone is subscribed
http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/d3391fb39060e818
/7e6b8af72e1217de#7e6b8af72e1217de

"I thought I saw this sort of calculation here before,
but haven't had any luck finding it. To keep things
simple, let's just consider EPO/blood transfusions.

Suppose you have an FTP of 400 and you use
EPO or tranfusions to raise your hematocrit from
42 to 49. How much would Vino's -- er, I mean "your"
FTP increase to?

For extra credit, would this have accounted for
the entire gap in the ITT?

-- jens "

"I don't know but I thought this was interesting. . .

If I understand the abstract, reduce haematocrit by 3%, reduce VO2max by 3%,

I couldn't tell you the direct effect on FTP.

http://tinyurl.com/2reu98

Jason. "

"Hematocrit was reduced from 44% to 41% ( 93.2% ), reducing VO2peak
from 3.79 to 3.64 (96.0%). This is suggests a transfer ratio of
ln(0.960)/ln(0.932) = 0.57.

So Rider V's CP, assuming proportional to VO2peak, would increase
(49/42)^0.57 - 1 = 9.2%.

Assuming AWC stays the same, and AWC/CP = 2 minutes, then AWC accounts
for 1/30th of the power in a 1 hour time trial, and therefore FTP
increases by 30/31 * 9.2% = 8.9% to 436 watts. This would shave a bit
more than 2 minutes from a 1 hour time trial.

Dan "

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
http://liveearth.msn.com

galen mittermann

2 minutes in a TT is a 3% speed difference (purely overcoming wind resistance) for both riders going flat out - and an 8.9% power difference at 400W vs 436W. Most riders in a grand tour don't go all out in a TT, usually just enough to make the time cut. The GC contenders are the only ones going to the limit. Hence domestiques being 10minutes back. Uphill, that power difference is going to make a much greater time difference since power to weight ratios matter more and mroe and aerodynamic drag drops off considerably.

To put it in perspective most of us can relate to: 436W @ 70kg (154 lbs) is the same as 400W @ 64.3kg (141.5 lbs)... in other words, that 9% more power gains you the same as loosing 5.7kg (12.5lbs) when the road gets steep, for an already skinny pro cyclist.

For a good real world feel for the difference drugs make, take a look at David Millar:
pre-drugs: stage winner. big time rider. world champ.
post-drugs: strong domestique, nothing extraordinary. an also-ran.

-----Original Message-----

Although 2 minutes in one hour is huge it is on the order of the difference
between 1st and 10th in a TT. Somewhat less that the difference between a
top rider and a mediocre domestique which is more on the order of 10
minutes. The difference is 3% rather than the 10% earlier suggested.

My recurring point is that it is not good to oversell the benefit of doping.
This only acts as marketing to increase doping. The same can be said for
the current testing program which focuses on only elite athletes ensuring
that the only athletes caught will be elite athletes. This sends out the
message that you have to dope in order to perform well, which is not true.
Catching non-elite dopers would send a much more accurate message.

The bottom line is that this is not so much a cheating issue, as it is most
commonly presented, but more of an issue of substance abuse.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of galen mittermann
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:10 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)

There was just an interesting thread about this on the google wattage lists.
Some of the posting, regarding "How much does doping help?" is copied below.
For clarity: AWC = anaerobic work capacity, CP = critical power, FTP =
functional threshold power

The whole thing is here, in case anyone is subscribed
http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/d3391fb39060e818
/7e6b8af72e1217de#7e6b8af72e1217de

"I thought I saw this sort of calculation here before,
but haven't had any luck finding it. To keep things
simple, let's just consider EPO/blood transfusions.

Suppose you have an FTP of 400 and you use
EPO or tranfusions to raise your hematocrit from
42 to 49. How much would Vino's -- er, I mean "your"
FTP increase to?

For extra credit, would this have accounted for
the entire gap in the ITT?

-- jens "

"I don't know but I thought this was interesting. . .

If I understand the abstract, reduce haematocrit by 3%, reduce VO2max by 3%,

I couldn't tell you the direct effect on FTP.

http://tinyurl.com/2reu98

Jason. "

"Hematocrit was reduced from 44% to 41% ( 93.2% ), reducing VO2peak
from 3.79 to 3.64 (96.0%). This is suggests a transfer ratio of
ln(0.960)/ln(0.932) = 0.57.

So Rider V's CP, assuming proportional to VO2peak, would increase
(49/42)^0.57 - 1 = 9.2%.

Assuming AWC stays the same, and AWC/CP = 2 minutes, then AWC accounts
for 1/30th of the power in a 1 hour time trial, and therefore FTP
increases by 30/31 * 9.2% = 8.9% to 436 watts. This would shave a bit
more than 2 minutes from a 1 hour time trial.

Dan "

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Joe Cipale

But the 'news outlets' do not wnat to sell it as yet antoher drug abuse story. They can cover that any day. Put a taint of 'cheating' and it suddenly sells. Remeber the motto of the media outlets in the US of A:
"If it bleeds, it leads"

Joe

>
> The bottom line is that this is not so much a cheating issue, as it is most
> commonly presented, but more of an issue of substance abuse.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of galen mittermann
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:10 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)
>
>
> There was just an interesting thread about this on the google wattage lists.
> Some of the posting, regarding "How much does doping help?" is copied below.
> For clarity: AWC = anaerobic work capacity, CP = critical power, FTP =
> functional threshold power
>
> The whole thing is here, in case anyone is subscribed
> http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/d3391fb39060e818
> /7e6b8af72e1217de#7e6b8af72e1217de
>
>
>
>
> "I thought I saw this sort of calculation here before,
> but haven't had any luck finding it. To keep things
> simple, let's just consider EPO/blood transfusions.
>
> Suppose you have an FTP of 400 and you use
> EPO or tranfusions to raise your hematocrit from
> 42 to 49. How much would Vino's -- er, I mean "your"
> FTP increase to?
>
> For extra credit, would this have accounted for
> the entire gap in the ITT?
>
>
> -- jens "
>
>
>
>
> "I don't know but I thought this was interesting. . .
>
>
> If I understand the abstract, reduce haematocrit by 3%, reduce VO2max by 3%,
>
> I couldn't tell you the direct effect on FTP.
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2reu98
>
>
> Jason. "
>
>
>
> "Hematocrit was reduced from 44% to 41% ( 93.2% ), reducing VO2peak
> from 3.79 to 3.64 (96.0%). This is suggests a transfer ratio of
> ln(0.960)/ln(0.932) = 0.57.
>
> So Rider V's CP, assuming proportional to VO2peak, would increase
> (49/42)^0.57 - 1 = 9.2%.
>
>
> Assuming AWC stays the same, and AWC/CP = 2 minutes, then AWC accounts
> for 1/30th of the power in a 1 hour time trial, and therefore FTP
> increases by 30/31 * 9.2% = 8.9% to 436 watts. This would shave a bit
> more than 2 minutes from a 1 hour time trial.
>
>
> Dan "
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

Although 2 minutes in one hour is huge it is on the order of the difference
between 1st and 10th in a TT. Somewhat less that the difference between a
top rider and a mediocre domestique which is more on the order of 10
minutes. The difference is 3% rather than the 10% earlier suggested.

My recurring point is that it is not good to oversell the benefit of doping.
This only acts as marketing to increase doping. The same can be said for
the current testing program which focuses on only elite athletes ensuring
that the only athletes caught will be elite athletes. This sends out the
message that you have to dope in order to perform well, which is not true.
Catching non-elite dopers would send a much more accurate message.

The bottom line is that this is not so much a cheating issue, as it is most
commonly presented, but more of an issue of substance abuse.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of galen mittermann
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:10 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)

There was just an interesting thread about this on the google wattage lists.
Some of the posting, regarding "How much does doping help?" is copied below.
For clarity: AWC = anaerobic work capacity, CP = critical power, FTP =
functional threshold power

The whole thing is here, in case anyone is subscribed
http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/d3391fb39060e818
/7e6b8af72e1217de#7e6b8af72e1217de

"I thought I saw this sort of calculation here before,
but haven't had any luck finding it. To keep things
simple, let's just consider EPO/blood transfusions.

Suppose you have an FTP of 400 and you use
EPO or tranfusions to raise your hematocrit from
42 to 49. How much would Vino's -- er, I mean "your"
FTP increase to?

For extra credit, would this have accounted for
the entire gap in the ITT?

-- jens "

"I don't know but I thought this was interesting. . .

If I understand the abstract, reduce haematocrit by 3%, reduce VO2max by 3%,

I couldn't tell you the direct effect on FTP.

http://tinyurl.com/2reu98

Jason. "

"Hematocrit was reduced from 44% to 41% ( 93.2% ), reducing VO2peak
from 3.79 to 3.64 (96.0%). This is suggests a transfer ratio of
ln(0.960)/ln(0.932) = 0.57.

So Rider V's CP, assuming proportional to VO2peak, would increase
(49/42)^0.57 - 1 = 9.2%.

Assuming AWC stays the same, and AWC/CP = 2 minutes, then AWC accounts
for 1/30th of the power in a 1 hour time trial, and therefore FTP
increases by 30/31 * 9.2% = 8.9% to 436 watts. This would shave a bit
more than 2 minutes from a 1 hour time trial.

Dan "

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Galen Mittermann

Influence of blood donation on O2 uptake on-kinetics, peak O2 uptake and time to exhaustion during severe-intensity cycle exercise in humans.
Burnley M, Roberts CL, Thatcher R, Doust JH, Jones AM.
Department of Sport and Exercise Science, University of Wales Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, UK.
We hypothesized that the reduction of O2-carrying capacity caused by the withdrawal of approximately 450 ml blood would result in slower phase II O2 uptake (VO2) kinetics, a lower VO2peak and a reduced time to exhaustion during severe-intensity cycle exercise. Eleven healthy subjects (mean +/- S.D. age 23 +/- 6 years, body mass 77.2 +/- 11.0 kg) completed 'step' exercise tests from unloaded cycling to a severe-intensity work rate (80% of the difference between the predetermined gas exchange threshold and the VO2peak) on two occasions before, and 24 h following, the voluntary donation of approximately 450 ml blood. Oxygen uptake was measured breath-by-breath, and VO2 kinetics estimated using non-linear regression techniques. The blood withdrawal resulted in a significant reduction in haemoglobin concentration (pre: 15.4 +/- 0.9 versus post: 14.7 +/- 1.3 g dl(-1); 95% confidence limits (CL): -0.04, -1.38) and haematocrit (pre: 44 +/- 2 versus post: 41 +/-
3%; 95% CL: -1.3, -5.1). Compared to the control condition, blood withdrawal resulted in significant reductions in VO2peak (pre: 3.79 +/- 0.64 versus post: 3.64 +/- 0.61 l min(-1); 95% CL: -0.04, - 0.27) and time to exhaustion (pre: 375 +/- 129 versus post: 321 +/- 99 s; 95% CL: -24, -85). However, the kinetic parameters of the fundamental VO2 response, including the phase II time constant (pre: 29 +/- 8 versus post: 30 +/- 6 s; 95% CL: 5, -3), were not altered by blood withdrawal. The magnitude of the VO2 slow component was significantly reduced following blood donation owing to the lower VO2peak attained. We conclude that a reduction in blood O2-carrying capacity, achieved through the withdrawal of approximately 450 ml blood, results in a significant reduction in VO2peak and exercise tolerance but has no effect on the fundamental phase of the VO2 on-kinetics during severe-intensity exercise.
PMID: 16431932 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

----- Original Message ----
From: "Long, Steve"
To: galen mittermann
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:16:16 AM
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)

You can't even get into that post. Can you post the article?

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of galen mittermann
Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:10 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Vino's Reality (doping works)

There was just an interesting thread about this on the google wattage
lists. Some of the posting, regarding "How much does doping help?" is
copied below. For clarity: AWC = anaerobic work capacity, CP = critical
power, FTP = functional threshold power

The whole thing is here, in case anyone is subscribed
http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/d3391fb39060e818/7e6b8af72e1217de#7e6b8af72e1217de

"I thought I saw this sort of calculation here before, but haven't had
any luck finding it. To keep things simple, let's just consider
EPO/blood transfusions.

Suppose you have an FTP of 400 and you use EPO or tranfusions to raise
your hematocrit from
42 to 49. How much would Vino's -- er, I mean "your"
FTP increase to?

For extra credit, would this have accounted for the entire gap in the
ITT?

-- jens "

"I don't know but I thought this was interesting. . .

If I understand the abstract, reduce haematocrit by 3%, reduce VO2max by
3%,
I couldn't tell you the direct effect on FTP.

http://tinyurl.com/2reu98

Jason. "

"Hematocrit was reduced from 44% to 41% ( 93.2% ), reducing VO2peak
from 3.79 to 3.64 (96.0%). This is suggests a transfer ratio of
ln(0.960)/ln(0.932) = 0.57.

So Rider V's CP, assuming proportional to VO2peak, would increase
(49/42)^0.57 - 1 = 9.2%.

Assuming AWC stays the same, and AWC/CP = 2 minutes, then AWC accounts
for 1/30th of the power in a 1 hour time trial, and therefore FTP
increases by 30/31 * 9.2% = 8.9% to 436 watts. This would shave a bit
more than 2 minutes from a 1 hour time trial.

Dan "

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
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galen mittermann

There was just an interesting thread about this on the google wattage lists. Some of the posting, regarding "How much does doping help?" is copied below. For clarity: AWC = anaerobic work capacity, CP = critical power, FTP = functional threshold power

The whole thing is here, in case anyone is subscribed
http://groups.google.com/group/wattage/browse_thread/thread/d3391fb39060e818/7e6b8af72e1217de#7e6b8af72e1217de

"I thought I saw this sort of calculation here before,
but haven't had any luck finding it. To keep things
simple, let's just consider EPO/blood transfusions.

Suppose you have an FTP of 400 and you use
EPO or tranfusions to raise your hematocrit from
42 to 49. How much would Vino's -- er, I mean "your"
FTP increase to?

For extra credit, would this have accounted for
the entire gap in the ITT?

-- jens "

"I don't know but I thought this was interesting. . .

If I understand the abstract, reduce haematocrit by 3%, reduce VO2max by 3%,
I couldn't tell you the direct effect on FTP.

http://tinyurl.com/2reu98

Jason. "

"Hematocrit was reduced from 44% to 41% ( 93.2% ), reducing VO2peak
from 3.79 to 3.64 (96.0%). This is suggests a transfer ratio of
ln(0.960)/ln(0.932) = 0.57.

So Rider V's CP, assuming proportional to VO2peak, would increase
(49/42)^0.57 - 1 = 9.2%.

Assuming AWC stays the same, and AWC/CP = 2 minutes, then AWC accounts
for 1/30th of the power in a 1 hour time trial, and therefore FTP
increases by 30/31 * 9.2% = 8.9% to 436 watts. This would shave a bit
more than 2 minutes from a 1 hour time trial.

Dan "