gschreckchat@comcast.net

One other point, even if you win a lawsuit, you lose by time you pay your attorneys' fees and other costs, and some people may decide you have enough assets to make it worthwhile even without insurance.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Mike Murray"

> Jessi Brunson asked:
>
> "I'm curious; has anyone ever been sued for actions contributing to a crash
> in a bike race?"
>
> The quick answer is yes. And frequently, although fortunately not often in
> Oregon. There have been only 2 in Oregon since 1980. It is my impression
> that these suits are not successful very often. Both of the Oregon suits
> were judged in favor of the defendant, as far as I know. The experience in
> California is completely different. Several years ago USAC planned on
> having 8 to 10 currently being litigated suits constantly. If the question
> was specifically limited to participant vs. participant I can't say but I
> would be surprised if some of these suits nationwide did not involve
> accusations against other participants. As I said in my previous note,
> these suits are less attractive to bring as they generally do not have
> insurance company money that can be chased.
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

Jessi Brunson asked:

"I'm curious; has anyone ever been sued for actions contributing to a crash
in a bike race?"

The quick answer is yes. And frequently, although fortunately not often in
Oregon. There have been only 2 in Oregon since 1980. It is my impression
that these suits are not successful very often. Both of the Oregon suits
were judged in favor of the defendant, as far as I know. The experience in
California is completely different. Several years ago USAC planned on
having 8 to 10 currently being litigated suits constantly. If the question
was specifically limited to participant vs. participant I can't say but I
would be surprised if some of these suits nationwide did not involve
accusations against other participants. As I said in my previous note,
these suits are less attractive to bring as they generally do not have
insurance company money that can be chased.

Mike Murray

Jessi Brunson

I'd like to weigh in on another possibility: it could be that the family of and the person injured in any given crash simply want to know what happened, especially when the injured person has no memory of the crash.

After Ryan's injury I received a form with a few yes or no questions (was the accident on private property, etc.), and in our case there was no potential to attribute fault to any individual. Most of us in the bike racing community understand that there are a gazillion little actions that can contribute to an accident in a bike race and it's often impossible (and unnecesary) to assign blame. I'm curious; has anyone ever been sued for actions contributing to a crash in a bike race?

Sometimes gathering as much data and information as possible can offer some understanding and comfort.

We'll continue to keep Chad and his family in our thoughts.

Jessi

>
I do not see what this gets us, unless someone intends to assess blame and bring a lawsuit. I am not suggesting that the parents intend to sue, but insurance companies have been known to do so to recover their costs, as they have a right of subrogation. I would suggest that we let it go as is.

This is not conjecture. I recently had a bad bike crash, and I received a form from my health issurer asking if anyone was at fault so they could try to recover their costs. I told them that my front tire blew out going down hill at 35 mph, and have them the address for Michelin.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"

> Hey folks,
>
> Some folks are trying to piece together the accident at PIR with Chad
> Smith. I offered to help.
>
> Did anyone see how it happened or have any details?
>
> Please e-mail off list.
>
> Thanks!
>
> k-
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

I feel compelled to also note that there are lawyers (not George) who troll
public notifications regarding accidents and injuries like this and then
directly approach the involved parties looking for business. This happened
to me last year when I was hit from behind while driving on a highway. A
few days later I received a solicitation from a lawyer who had obtained my
information from the accident report.

I should also point out that participant/participant liability claims are
specifically excluded on the OBRA liability policy. In other words, if a
rider sues you for something bone headed that you did in a race, the defense
and settlement of that action is not covered by the OBRA insurance and would
be your responsibility. Most often there is no insurance to cover such a
claim which is one of the reasons why there are few such actions.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 09:04 AM
To: T. Kenji Sugahara; OBRA list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR Crash Question

I do not see what this gets us, unless someone intends to assess blame and
bring a lawsuit. I am not suggesting that the parents intend to sue, but
insurance companies have been known to do so to recover their costs, as they
have a right of subrogation. I would suggest that we let it go as is.

This is not conjecture. I recently had a bad bike crash, and I received a
form from my health issurer asking if anyone was at fault so they could try
to recover their costs. I told them that my front tire blew out going down
hill at 35 mph, and have them the address for Michelin.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"

> Hey folks,
>
> Some folks are trying to piece together the accident at PIR with Chad
> Smith. I offered to help.
>
> Did anyone see how it happened or have any details?
>
> Please e-mail off list.
>
> Thanks!
>
> k-
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Matthew Klahn

You know, while it is, of course, silly to bring lawsuits against people who
"caused" a crash in a race, I have to say that the flip attitude is a little
weird.

Of course any racer has responsibility for putting themselves in a risky
situation (i.e. any race is risky), and if something bad happens, they
should not start swinging lawsuits around. However, having said that, when
you race, you should realize that decisions you make can contribute to
life-altering outcomes for your fellow racers. In one race I was in, someone
decided that if he wasn't boxed in, he could win a 35 mph uphill sprint from
30th place, so he suddenly stood up & cut across the pack, taking out 2
people behind him. Should he be sued? Of course not. But, one of the riders
went down hard and had a C2-C3 fracture as a result. Being safe in a race is
everyone's own responsibility, but I think that everyone else can help out
by being predictable when you're in the pack and making good decisions in
the higher-risk situations, like pack sprints.

My sympathies to Mr. Smith. I hope he recovers and comes back to PIR to race
again.

Matthew Klahn

On 9/21/07, Dave German wrote:
>
> Let me know how these lawsuits work out. I need to recover $400 from the
> guys that took me out on my last PIR crash.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman
> /listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Dave German

Let me know how these lawsuits work out. I need to recover $400 from the guys that took me out on my last PIR crash.

Roger Joys

I would have referred them to the family of Ernest Michaux

-r
-----Original Message-----
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net [mailto:gschreckchat@comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, September 21, 2007 04:04 PM
To: 'T. Kenji Sugahara', 'OBRA list'
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] PIR Crash Question

I do not see what this gets us, unless someone intends to assess blame and bring a lawsuit. I am not suggesting that the parents intend to sue, but insurance companies have been known to do so to recover their costs, as they have a right of subrogation. I would suggest that we let it go as is.

This is not conjecture. I recently had a bad bike crash, and I received a form from my health issurer asking if anyone was at fault so they could try to recover their costs. I told them that my front tire blew out going down hill at 35 mph, and have them the address for Michelin.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"

> Hey folks,
>
> Some folks are trying to piece together the accident at PIR with Chad
> Smith. I offered to help.
>
> Did anyone see how it happened or have any details?
>
> Please e-mail off list.
>
> Thanks!
>
> k-
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

I do not see what this gets us, unless someone intends to assess blame and bring a lawsuit. I am not suggesting that the parents intend to sue, but insurance companies have been known to do so to recover their costs, as they have a right of subrogation. I would suggest that we let it go as is.

This is not conjecture. I recently had a bad bike crash, and I received a form from my health issurer asking if anyone was at fault so they could try to recover their costs. I told them that my front tire blew out going down hill at 35 mph, and have them the address for Michelin.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "T. Kenji Sugahara"

> Hey folks,
>
> Some folks are trying to piece together the accident at PIR with Chad
> Smith. I offered to help.
>
> Did anyone see how it happened or have any details?
>
> Please e-mail off list.
>
> Thanks!
>
> k-
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

T. Kenji Sugahara

Hey folks,

Some folks are trying to piece together the accident at PIR with Chad
Smith. I offered to help.

Did anyone see how it happened or have any details?

Please e-mail off list.

Thanks!

k-