Scott's Mail [mailto:sdsc-@sterlink.net]:
? why isn't there a greater push to educate OBALand about the benefits of
making tax deductible contributions to OBRA??
Mostly because contributions to OBRA are not automatically deductible since
OBRA does not yet have 501(c)(3) status. We are working on that and anyone
who is willing to help with that project is encouraged to send me a note.
Mike Murray
Reflections on what Scott Powell, et al said:
I think it is a good idea sometimes to sit back and ask ourselves why we
race. Is it for money? If your answer is yes, I'd be surprised.
...
Beth, Pam, etc. I really hope you do not see the difference in prize money
for men's and women's fields as somehow discriminatory or misogynist.
It might be offensive if other categories are pri$ed, and yours
isn't...? But, amount of riders/entry fees might influence amount of
prize money per field.
Cash DOES change hands always at the race - who deserves a "cut" of it?
Here's the way I see entry fee allotment:
1. LOTS of miscellaneous expenses/fees...insurance, porta-johns,
possible donation to charity, etc.
2. Promoter
It's a HUGE amount of work organizing a race, an all-encompassing job
that can wake ya up in the middle of the night! Doing it for the love
of sport is noble, but some profit for all that effort is certainly
fair!
3. Officials
Can't do it w/o 'em! They make the race happen on raceday!
4. Riders
Can't do it w/o 'em! They make the race happen.
It would be nice if we had a strict standard for allotment of prizes,
like 40% entry fees alloted to 1/5 of each category - this would be a
equitable solution, you'd get prizes in proportion to how much cash was
generated by the size of your field. Entry fees could be higher in
highlighted categories to satisfy those pro/semi-pro riders for whom
larger cash prizes are important (and encourage upgrading to "greener
fields?").
~~Just reflections... It's a juggling act to keep riders AND promoters
happy, so we can pursue this great sport!
Ride, David :-)
As Scott said, if you don't want another message on this topic, please
delete now.
Scott, I think you might have missed the point. Beth's cash is to fund a
*separate* prize list for the Women Masters and Cat 4s. So the Women's
field will have two prize lists, if Jim accepts Beth's (and Lisa's) offer.
I admire her for putting up her own serious change to do it.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Powell [mailto:aka_s-@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:04 AM
To: Bet-@schetkynw.com; ob-@topica.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] SHOW ME THE MONEY $$$ !!!!
[snip]
If you don't want to read another mass-message on this subject, please hit
delete now. . . And my apologies for the mass-distribution, but I'm kind of
flabbergasted that we are having this discussion (again).
[snip]
I certainly don't want to discourage Beth, or anyone, for that matter, from
putting money into bike racing but I think that the focus on prize lists is
inappropriate. There is little demonstration that the size of the prize
list has any effect on participation or performance, as has been shown by
events like PIR. Cycling is nearly the only sport that would even consider
giving cash prizes to beginning competitors.
Race organizers have limited amounts of organizational energy. Often most
of that energy is spent on trying to develop a large prize list. Worse yet,
many race organizers create their prize lists by redistributing the entry
fees. Wouldn't it be much better if the race organizers concentrated energy
on other items, like publicizing their events to potential competitors and
to the general public, better communications, results publication, better
caravan organization, adding other amenities, etc? Wouldn't most people
prefer a lower entry fee over a larger prize list?
Mike Murray
-----Original Message-----
From: Bet-@schetkynw.com [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:48 AM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] SHOW ME THE MONEY $$$ !!!!
============================================================
In Orlando, close to The Magic Of Disney, enjoy an
unforgettable family vacation from only $99.00 a
night, in a beautiful home with 3bed/2baths & pool
http://click.topica.com/caaacYRaVxiDpaVzo9Ia/Orlando
============================================================
TO: Jim Anderson
After personally promoting and putting on the SWAN ISLAND CLASSIC, race I
realize how hard it is to find the money and prizes to produce a race. So
after very careful consideration, I have decided to front the money $$$$ for
the CAT 4 women myself. I have tried to personally recruit for this race
and there seems to be no incentive for the CAT 4/WOMEN Masters to
participate other than points.
We are strong enough, smart enough and good enough to produce some results
on our very own turf.
Prize List: $2500 ALL CASH
? Women's event will track Cat. 4 and Masters 35+ Women for B.A.R. but
only prize 1 group.
I am sorry that I find your prize list discriminating. And I KNOW how hard
it is to find the CASH from sponsors to promote the race. So I am
personally donating $120 to the CAT 4 women. To be distributed 4 deep.
To be distributed as follows:
FIRST PLACE: $45 Cash
Second place: $35 Cash
Third place: $25 Cash
Fourth place: $15 Cash
I want you to know that you have done an EXCELLENT job of promoting the
Monday night Masters/Women Series. We have had fun!!! NO CRASHES!!! We
have grown together and we are getting stronger and definitely more
experienced.
CAT 4 Women and Masters come on out and play in the Eugene Cyclebration!!! I
would like to race with my peers and compete.
NOTE: Swan Island Classic donated $700 of our proceeds to BTA (Bicycle
Transportation Alliance) on your behalf as cyclists to help promote the
"Safe Routes to School Program for out kids". Article will be forth coming
in the next Oregon Cycling Newspaper. Next year we have decided to give CASH
$$$ for prizes and primes will be merchandise.
Jim, send me your address and I will forward my check to you after September
1st.
Beth Whittaker
============================================================
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Then check out the great deals on magazines you can get by
signing up through Topica. Info and entertainment do come
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============================================================
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To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
"I have tried to personally recruit for this race
and there seems to be no incentive for the CAT 4/WOMEN Masters to
participate other than points. "
What happened to racing on the incentive of having a good time and racing on
good courses? Also, why did so many people show up for any of the state
championship crit, RR, Track etc? After all, besides 3 medals in each
category....the rest anybody got was BAR points. If money is an incentive
(Especially in a Cat. 4 race) perhaps you are better off standing in line
for a PowerBall ticket.....
From: Bet-@schetkynw.com
Reply-To: Bet-@schetkynw.com
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] SHOW ME THE MONEY $$$ !!!!
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:47:31 -0700
============================================================
In Orlando, close to The Magic Of Disney, enjoy an
unforgettable family vacation from only $99.00 a
night, in a beautiful home with 3bed/2baths & pool
http://click.topica.com/caaacYRaVxiDpaVGgr8a/Orlando
============================================================
TO: Jim Anderson
After personally promoting and putting on the SWAN ISLAND CLASSIC, race I
realize how hard it is to find the money and prizes to produce a race. So
after very careful consideration, I have decided to front the money $$$$
for
the CAT 4 women myself. I have tried to personally recruit for this race
and there seems to be no incentive for the CAT 4/WOMEN Masters to
participate other than points.
We are strong enough, smart enough and good enough to produce some results
on our very own turf.
Prize List: $2500 ALL CASH
? Women's event will track Cat. 4 and Masters 35+ Women for B.A.R. but
only prize 1 group.
I am sorry that I find your prize list discriminating. And I KNOW how hard
it is to find the CASH from sponsors to promote the race. So I am
personally donating $120 to the CAT 4 women. To be distributed 4 deep.
To be distributed as follows:
FIRST PLACE: $45 Cash
Second place: $35 Cash
Third place: $25 Cash
Fourth place: $15 Cash
I want you to know that you have done an EXCELLENT job of promoting the
Monday night Masters/Women Series. We have had fun!!! NO CRASHES!!! We
have grown together and we are getting stronger and definitely more
experienced.
CAT 4 Women and Masters come on out and play in the Eugene Cyclebration!!!
I
would like to race with my peers and compete.
NOTE: Swan Island Classic donated $700 of our proceeds to BTA (Bicycle
Transportation Alliance) on your behalf as cyclists to help promote the
"Safe Routes to School Program for out kids". Article will be forth coming
in the next Oregon Cycling Newspaper. Next year we have decided to give
CASH
$$$ for prizes and primes will be merchandise.
Jim, send me your address and I will forward my check to you after
September
1st.
Beth Whittaker
============================================================
Feel the Need to Read?
Then check out the great deals on magazines you can get by
signing up through Topica. Info and entertainment do come
cheap if you click here:
http://click.topica.com/caaacQ5aVxiDpaVGgr8f/TopOffers
============================================================
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
instead of complaining
she is stepping up with some cash
notice she didn't just blah blah blah about it?
she is doing what we should all do "shut up or put up".
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Powell [mailto:aka_s-@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 10:04 AM
To: Bet-@schetkynw.com; ob-@topica.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] SHOW ME THE MONEY $$$ !!!!
============================================================
GET A FREE CHILD ID KIT. Every year 1.8 million kids are
reported missing. Many kids are found because parents have
up-to-date records on file. ID your kids today. Click Here=>
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============================================================
If you don't want to read another mass-message on this subject, please hit
delete now. . . And my apologies for the mass-distribution, but I'm kind of
flabbergasted that we are having this discussion (again).
In defense of Jim . . . He no doubt looked at the fields he has had at this
race over the last few years and distributed this year's prize purse
according to who he expects to show up at the races. I can tell you from
personal experience in racing this event the past two years, the women's
field is very small - BUT they have a great time. I did not hear my wife,
nor Larssyn, nor any of the other women who raced there last year complain
about a lack of prize money. In fact, I don't think anyone complained about
a lack of prize money.
I think it is a good idea sometimes to sit back and ask ourselves why we
race. Is it for money? If your answer is yes, I'd be surprised. Take a
look at the turn out for last weekends District Road Race. Look at the
start list for this weekends Time Trial. I think anyone who raced last
weekend will tell you that District's was a highlight to the year - and how
much money was up for grabs there? . . . . We race because it's fun, not
because of the money.
Beth, Pam, etc. I really hope you do not see the difference in prize money
for men's and women's fields as somehow discriminatory or misogynist. I've
got to believe that the die hard Oregon promoters like Jim have no ill will
toward women's racing. If you feel you are going to help the turn out by
offering up additional prize money, then I hope you're right. I'll be very
curious, though, to hear Jim's take on your offer.
I hope you all race in Eugene -- the courses are lovely, and Jim does a
fantastic job. And I hope you have an equally fun time whether you win
cash, a ribbon, a stuffed animal, a certificate of completion, or a pat on
the back for finishing from your spouse or friends.
Scott Powell
Team Oregon
To achieve great things,
we must live as though we are never going to die - BP Meyers
From: Bet-@schetkynw.com
Reply-To: Bet-@schetkynw.com
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] SHOW ME THE MONEY $$$ !!!!
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:47:31 -0700
============================================================
In Orlando, close to The Magic Of Disney, enjoy an
unforgettable family vacation from only $99.00 a
night, in a beautiful home with 3bed/2baths & pool
http://click.topica.com/caaacYRaVxiDpaVzo35a/Orlando
============================================================
TO: Jim Anderson
After personally promoting and putting on the SWAN ISLAND CLASSIC, race I
realize how hard it is to find the money and prizes to produce a race. So
after very careful consideration, I have decided to front the money $$$$
for
the CAT 4 women myself. I have tried to personally recruit for this race
and there seems to be no incentive for the CAT 4/WOMEN Masters to
participate other than points.
We are strong enough, smart enough and good enough to produce some results
on our very own turf.
Prize List: $2500 ALL CASH
? Women's event will track Cat. 4 and Masters 35+ Women for B.A.R. but
only prize 1 group.
I am sorry that I find your prize list discriminating. And I KNOW how hard
it is to find the CASH from sponsors to promote the race. So I am
personally donating $120 to the CAT 4 women. To be distributed 4 deep.
To be distributed as follows:
FIRST PLACE: $45 Cash
Second place: $35 Cash
Third place: $25 Cash
Fourth place: $15 Cash
I want you to know that you have done an EXCELLENT job of promoting the
Monday night Masters/Women Series. We have had fun!!! NO CRASHES!!! We
have grown together and we are getting stronger and definitely more
experienced.
CAT 4 Women and Masters come on out and play in the Eugene Cyclebration!!!
I
would like to race with my peers and compete.
NOTE: Swan Island Classic donated $700 of our proceeds to BTA (Bicycle
Transportation Alliance) on your behalf as cyclists to help promote the
"Safe Routes to School Program for out kids". Article will be forth coming
in the next Oregon Cycling Newspaper. Next year we have decided to give
CASH
$$$ for prizes and primes will be merchandise.
Jim, send me your address and I will forward my check to you after
September
1st.
Beth Whittaker
============================================================
Feel the Need to Read?
Then check out the great deals on magazines you can get by
signing up through Topica. Info and entertainment do come
cheap if you click here:
http://click.topica.com/caaacQ5aVxiDpaVzo35f/TopOffers
============================================================
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
============================================================
Coffee, pastry, orange juice, and developerWorks.
Fuel for a developer's day.
Get the developerWorks newsletter.
http://click.topica.com/caaacCLaVxiDpaVI6vTf/developerWorks
============================================================
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
If you don't want to read another mass-message on this subject, please hit
delete now. . . And my apologies for the mass-distribution, but I'm kind of
flabbergasted that we are having this discussion (again).
In defense of Jim . . . He no doubt looked at the fields he has had at this
race over the last few years and distributed this year's prize purse
according to who he expects to show up at the races. I can tell you from
personal experience in racing this event the past two years, the women's
field is very small - BUT they have a great time. I did not hear my wife,
nor Larssyn, nor any of the other women who raced there last year complain
about a lack of prize money. In fact, I don't think anyone complained about
a lack of prize money.
I think it is a good idea sometimes to sit back and ask ourselves why we
race. Is it for money? If your answer is yes, I'd be surprised. Take a
look at the turn out for last weekends District Road Race. Look at the
start list for this weekends Time Trial. I think anyone who raced last
weekend will tell you that District's was a highlight to the year - and how
much money was up for grabs there? . . . . We race because it's fun, not
because of the money.
Beth, Pam, etc. I really hope you do not see the difference in prize money
for men's and women's fields as somehow discriminatory or misogynist. I've
got to believe that the die hard Oregon promoters like Jim have no ill will
toward women's racing. If you feel you are going to help the turn out by
offering up additional prize money, then I hope you're right. I'll be very
curious, though, to hear Jim's take on your offer.
I hope you all race in Eugene -- the courses are lovely, and Jim does a
fantastic job. And I hope you have an equally fun time whether you win
cash, a ribbon, a stuffed animal, a certificate of completion, or a pat on
the back for finishing from your spouse or friends.
Scott Powell
Team Oregon
To achieve great things,
we must live as though we are never going to die - BP Meyers
From: Bet-@schetkynw.com
Reply-To: Bet-@schetkynw.com
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] SHOW ME THE MONEY $$$ !!!!
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 07:47:31 -0700
============================================================
In Orlando, close to The Magic Of Disney, enjoy an
unforgettable family vacation from only $99.00 a
night, in a beautiful home with 3bed/2baths & pool
http://click.topica.com/caaacYRaVxiDpaVzo35a/Orlando
============================================================
TO: Jim Anderson
After personally promoting and putting on the SWAN ISLAND CLASSIC, race I
realize how hard it is to find the money and prizes to produce a race. So
after very careful consideration, I have decided to front the money $$$$
for
the CAT 4 women myself. I have tried to personally recruit for this race
and there seems to be no incentive for the CAT 4/WOMEN Masters to
participate other than points.
We are strong enough, smart enough and good enough to produce some results
on our very own turf.
Prize List: $2500 ALL CASH
? Women's event will track Cat. 4 and Masters 35+ Women for B.A.R. but
only prize 1 group.
I am sorry that I find your prize list discriminating. And I KNOW how hard
it is to find the CASH from sponsors to promote the race. So I am
personally donating $120 to the CAT 4 women. To be distributed 4 deep.
To be distributed as follows:
FIRST PLACE: $45 Cash
Second place: $35 Cash
Third place: $25 Cash
Fourth place: $15 Cash
I want you to know that you have done an EXCELLENT job of promoting the
Monday night Masters/Women Series. We have had fun!!! NO CRASHES!!! We
have grown together and we are getting stronger and definitely more
experienced.
CAT 4 Women and Masters come on out and play in the Eugene Cyclebration!!!
I
would like to race with my peers and compete.
NOTE: Swan Island Classic donated $700 of our proceeds to BTA (Bicycle
Transportation Alliance) on your behalf as cyclists to help promote the
"Safe Routes to School Program for out kids". Article will be forth coming
in the next Oregon Cycling Newspaper. Next year we have decided to give
CASH
$$$ for prizes and primes will be merchandise.
Jim, send me your address and I will forward my check to you after
September
1st.
Beth Whittaker
============================================================
Feel the Need to Read?
Then check out the great deals on magazines you can get by
signing up through Topica. Info and entertainment do come
cheap if you click here:
http://click.topica.com/caaacQ5aVxiDpaVzo35f/TopOffers
============================================================
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Way to go BETH!
-----Original Message-----
From: Bet-@schetkynw.com [mailto:Bet-@schetkynw.com]
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2001 7:48 AM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] SHOW ME THE MONEY $$$ !!!!
============================================================
In Orlando, close to The Magic Of Disney, enjoy an
unforgettable family vacation from only $99.00 a
night, in a beautiful home with 3bed/2baths & pool
http://click.topica.com/caaacYRaVxiDpaVzpaga/Orlando
============================================================
TO: Jim Anderson
After personally promoting and putting on the SWAN ISLAND CLASSIC, race I
realize how hard it is to find the money and prizes to produce a race. So
after very careful consideration, I have decided to front the money $$$$ for
the CAT 4 women myself. I have tried to personally recruit for this race
and there seems to be no incentive for the CAT 4/WOMEN Masters to
participate other than points.
We are strong enough, smart enough and good enough to produce some results
on our very own turf.
Prize List: $2500 ALL CASH
? Women's event will track Cat. 4 and Masters 35+ Women for B.A.R. but
only prize 1 group.
I am sorry that I find your prize list discriminating. And I KNOW how hard
it is to find the CASH from sponsors to promote the race. So I am
personally donating $120 to the CAT 4 women. To be distributed 4 deep.
To be distributed as follows:
FIRST PLACE: $45 Cash
Second place: $35 Cash
Third place: $25 Cash
Fourth place: $15 Cash
I want you to know that you have done an EXCELLENT job of promoting the
Monday night Masters/Women Series. We have had fun!!! NO CRASHES!!! We
have grown together and we are getting stronger and definitely more
experienced.
CAT 4 Women and Masters come on out and play in the Eugene Cyclebration!!! I
would like to race with my peers and compete.
NOTE: Swan Island Classic donated $700 of our proceeds to BTA (Bicycle
Transportation Alliance) on your behalf as cyclists to help promote the
"Safe Routes to School Program for out kids". Article will be forth coming
in the next Oregon Cycling Newspaper. Next year we have decided to give CASH
$$$ for prizes and primes will be merchandise.
Jim, send me your address and I will forward my check to you after September
1st.
Beth Whittaker
============================================================
Feel the Need to Read?
Then check out the great deals on magazines you can get by
signing up through Topica. Info and entertainment do come
cheap if you click here:
http://click.topica.com/caaacQ5aVxiDpaVzpagf/TopOffers
============================================================
To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.
To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com
To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com
TO: Jim Anderson
After personally promoting and putting on the SWAN ISLAND CLASSIC, race I
realize how hard it is to find the money and prizes to produce a race. So
after very careful consideration, I have decided to front the money $$$$ for
the CAT 4 women myself. I have tried to personally recruit for this race
and there seems to be no incentive for the CAT 4/WOMEN Masters to
participate other than points.
We are strong enough, smart enough and good enough to produce some results
on our very own turf.
Prize List: $2500 ALL CASH
? Women's event will track Cat. 4 and Masters 35+ Women for B.A.R. but
only prize 1 group.
I am sorry that I find your prize list discriminating. And I KNOW how hard
it is to find the CASH from sponsors to promote the race. So I am
personally donating $120 to the CAT 4 women. To be distributed 4 deep.
To be distributed as follows:
FIRST PLACE: $45 Cash
Second place: $35 Cash
Third place: $25 Cash
Fourth place: $15 Cash
I want you to know that you have done an EXCELLENT job of promoting the
Monday night Masters/Women Series. We have had fun!!! NO CRASHES!!! We
have grown together and we are getting stronger and definitely more
experienced.
CAT 4 Women and Masters come on out and play in the Eugene Cyclebration!!! I
would like to race with my peers and compete.
NOTE: Swan Island Classic donated $700 of our proceeds to BTA (Bicycle
Transportation Alliance) on your behalf as cyclists to help promote the
"Safe Routes to School Program for out kids". Article will be forth coming
in the next Oregon Cycling Newspaper. Next year we have decided to give CASH
$$$ for prizes and primes will be merchandise.
Jim, send me your address and I will forward my check to you after September
1st.
Beth Whittaker
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