Sal - Kenji - & the Murrays

Gordie Cumming

2007-09-24

It also does not say that a rider WILL be downgraded, but MAY ELECT to be downgraded. The central meaning here being that it is up
to the rider as to whether they will downgrade or not. It does not appear to be mandatory.

Gordie

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Long, Steve
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 7:49 AM
To: David Root; Jason Shucker; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sal - Kenji - & the Murrays

The upgrade and downgrade rules are posted on the OBRA website.

http://www.obra.org/upgrade_rules.html

Here are the downgrade guidelines:

Downgrade Guidelines: Riders who do not score points in a 12 month period may elect to be downgraded one category.
Riders will not be downgraded lower than Category 4.

This implies that points earned in any category would disqualify a rider from downgrading. This keeps people from racing only
Master's races and then qualifying for a downgrade.

Additionally, I see no ambiguity in these rules.

Steve

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of David Root
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:42 PM
To: Jason Shucker; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sal - Kenji - & the Murrays

Jason, I tend to strongly agree about the upgrade / downgrade bias. I told myself that I wasn't going to write anything about this
but I read your e-mail and I couldn't help myself.

First off I have to say that the Murrays have done great things for Cycling in Oregon.

That being said, I think that there needs to be a more clear standard to upgrades and downgrades.

Since I have been a OBRA racer I have seen many inconsistency's and flaws in this current system. One example is the fact that
Candi is upgrading or denying downgrades based upon Masters race's and Master PIR and as far as I know any type of Masters race
especially if it is a open Masters or 123 Masters race. So assuming you are a master cat 3 and you do a masters 123 and place in
the points no matter the field size then you get upgrade points. If any dont believe me on this then I have the e-mail saved
confirming this and I will repost it if nessesary. My original upgrade was also partly based on Masters points.

In USA Cycling (USCF) they do not use such practices in upgrades/downgrades. They go according to category races and correct field
sizes only in counting towards upgrades/downgrades.

I feel that I am partly responsible for Sal's untimely departure because he gave me and some other racers who race mostly masters
and hadn't placed in any 1/2 races for a long time or not at all a downgrade. I am sure he felt he was doing the right thing based
upon OBRA rules on upgrade/downgrade procedures but he was demanded/forced to change that decision based on a personal opinion and
twisting of the rules.

If this upgrading/downgrading based on Masters races is going to be apart of the OBRA rules then it needs to be officially added to
the rule book and the Web site and not left to interpritation.

Just my humble opinion.

David

Jason Shucker wrote:

Hello OBRA,

Let me start by saying this e-mail most likely will not be popular with the majority of the list, but that's ok. I am going to say
what I think a lot of people have felt for a while now, and with the firing of Sal, and the hiring of Kenji, I feel that now might
time to bring this up.

First off, what the Murray's have done for Oregon Cycling has been great, and without them, we would not have one of the best, if
not the best states in the country for cycling. Their endless dedication to our sport and our state have been a great asset to all
of us, and I have no problem thanking them for all their hard work and efforts over the years. Thank You Murrays!!!!!

That being said, for anyone living south of Salem, it has become painfully obvious to a number of us southern riders that there is a
HUGE bias towards Portland area riders. I won't get into specific details, but Candi has had no problem upgrading PDX riders who
haven't "earned" their upgrade and in all honestly don't deserve to be where they are. While riders in Eugene, Medford, Bend, etc
all have to get the exact number of upgrade points. I even know of a few instances in-which a rider had the needed points, but they
were not upgraded because Candi did not want to. I have more examples, but I don't want to get into details or name, names. Simply
put, for all the great things the Murray's have done for us, there has been a blatant bias towards Portland riders and race
organizers. This was something I was hoping would change with the hiring of Sal Collura last year. Sadly though, with his firing,
it does not appear this will change

For many of us, we have no clue why Sal was fired, nor did we see any reason for his firing. Myself along with many other riders
thought he was doing a great job and saw nothing different with Sal helping to run the show, then we did while Candi was 100% in
charge. However after one year, Sal was fired for what appears was no reason. My thought, along with others, is that simply Sal
lived in the wrong zip code. How could someone from Springfield, OR show biased towards Portland riders?

As for Kenji, I am sure he'll do a good job, he his a smart educated individual who is passionate about cycling. However, aside
from his great blogging skills, I fail to see what he brings to the table that Sal did not. Sal has been a bike racer for many
years, he has promoted many successful races, he has volunteered numerous hours to OBRA, and he is very passionate about cycling and
OBRA. Aside from the fact he lives outside of the 503 area code, I just don't see what he did wrong. Can anyone fill me into to
what Sal did wrong?

Thank you Sal for all your hard work, those of us in the Willamette Valley appreciate you and all you do, and hopefully the fact
that you were treated in poor fashion from OBRA will not discourage you from promoting all the races you provide to all of us in
Valley. Without you, we would be screwed!

Once again, Thank you to the Murray's for all your hard work and dedication throughout the years. Regardless of my opinion, without
you and your efforts we would not have the opportunties we have and I thank you a million times over for you dedication to us bike
racers.

And to Kenji A.K.A. "KMan", I know you will do a great job and help lead OBRA into the future, I just hope this new job does not
take away from your blogging skills. And please remember to keep in mind, this is the Oregon Bicycle Racing Association, not the
Portland Bicycle Racing Association. :)

Shuck On It!

Jason

PS. I know there are probably mixed opinions, but I think the majority of those of us in OBRA feel we are owed at least some
information as to why Sal was fired.

_____

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Check out fitting gifts
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

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Long, Steve

2007-09-24

The upgrade and downgrade rules are posted on the OBRA website.
http://www.obra.org/upgrade_rules.html

Here are the downgrade guidelines:
Downgrade Guidelines: Riders who do not score points in a 12 month
period may elect to be downgraded one category.
Riders will not be downgraded lower than Category 4.

This implies that points earned in any category would disqualify a rider
from downgrading. This keeps people from racing only Master's races and
then qualifying for a downgrade.

Additionally, I see no ambiguity in these rules.

Steve

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of David Root
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:42 PM
To: Jason Shucker; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sal - Kenji - & the Murrays

Jason, I tend to strongly agree about the upgrade / downgrade bias. I
told myself that I wasn't going to write anything about this but I read
your e-mail and I couldn't help myself.
First off I have to say that the Murrays have done great things for
Cycling in Oregon.
That being said, I think that there needs to be a more clear standard to
upgrades and downgrades.
Since I have been a OBRA racer I have seen many inconsistency's and
flaws in this current system. One example is the fact that Candi is
upgrading or denying downgrades based upon Masters race's and Master PIR
and as far as I know any type of Masters race especially if it is a open
Masters or 123 Masters race. So assuming you are a master cat 3 and you
do a masters 123 and place in the points no matter the field size then
you get upgrade points. If any dont believe me on this then I have the
e-mail saved confirming this and I will repost it if nessesary. My
original upgrade was also partly based on Masters points.
In USA Cycling (USCF) they do not use such practices in
upgrades/downgrades. They go according to category races and correct
field sizes only in counting towards upgrades/downgrades.
I feel that I am partly responsible for Sal's untimely departure because
he gave me and some other racers who race mostly masters and hadn't
placed in any 1/2 races for a long time or not at all a downgrade. I am
sure he felt he was doing the right thing based upon OBRA rules on
upgrade/downgrade procedures but he was demanded/forced to change that
decision based on a personal opinion and twisting of the rules.
If this upgrading/downgrading based on Masters races is going to be
apart of the OBRA rules then it needs to be officially added to the rule
book and the Web site and not left to interpritation.
Just my humble opinion.

David

Jason Shucker wrote:

Hello OBRA,

Let me start by saying this e-mail most likely will not be
popular with the majority of the list, but that's ok. I am going to say
what I think a lot of people have felt for a while now, and with the
firing of Sal, and the hiring of Kenji, I feel that now might time to
bring this up.

First off, what the Murray's have done for Oregon Cycling has
been great, and without them, we would not have one of the best, if not
the best states in the country for cycling. Their endless dedication to
our sport and our state have been a great asset to all of us, and I have
no problem thanking them for all their hard work and efforts over the
years. Thank You Murrays!!!!!

That being said, for anyone living south of Salem, it has become
painfully obvious to a number of us southern riders that there is a HUGE
bias towards Portland area riders. I won't get into specific details,
but Candi has had no problem upgrading PDX riders who haven't "earned"
their upgrade and in all honestly don't deserve to be where they are.
While riders in Eugene, Medford, Bend, etc all have to get the exact
number of upgrade points. I even know of a few instances in-which a
rider had the needed points, but they were not upgraded because Candi
did not want to. I have more examples, but I don't want to get into
details or name, names. Simply put, for all the great things the
Murray's have done for us, there has been a blatant bias towards
Portland riders and race organizers. This was something I was hoping
would change with the hiring of Sal Collura last year. Sadly though,
with his firing, it does not appear this will change

For many of us, we have no clue why Sal was fired, nor did we
see any reason for his firing. Myself along with many other riders
thought he was doing a great job and saw nothing different with Sal
helping to run the show, then we did while Candi was 100% in charge.
However after one year, Sal was fired for what appears was no reason.
My thought, along with others, is that simply Sal lived in the wrong zip
code. How could someone from Springfield, OR show biased towards
Portland riders?

As for Kenji, I am sure he'll do a good job, he his a smart
educated individual who is passionate about cycling. However, aside
from his great blogging skills, I fail to see what he brings to the
table that Sal did not. Sal has been a bike racer for many years, he
has promoted many successful races, he has volunteered numerous hours to
OBRA, and he is very passionate about cycling and OBRA. Aside from the
fact he lives outside of the 503 area code, I just don't see what he did
wrong. Can anyone fill me into to what Sal did wrong?

Thank you Sal for all your hard work, those of us in the
Willamette Valley appreciate you and all you do, and hopefully the fact
that you were treated in poor fashion from OBRA will not discourage you
from promoting all the races you provide to all of us in Valley.
Without you, we would be screwed!

Once again, Thank you to the Murray's for all your hard work and
dedication throughout the years. Regardless of my opinion, without you
and your efforts we would not have the opportunties we have and I thank
you a million times over for you dedication to us bike racers.

And to Kenji A.K.A. "KMan", I know you will do a great job and
help lead OBRA into the future, I just hope this new job does not take
away from your blogging skills. And please remember to keep in mind,
this is the Oregon Bicycle Racing Association, not the Portland Bicycle
Racing Association. :)

Shuck On It!
Jason

PS. I know there are probably mixed opinions, but I think the
majority of those of us in OBRA feel we are owed at least some
information as to why Sal was fired.
________________________________

Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads
at Yahoo!
Search._______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

________________________________

Catch up on fall's hot new shows
on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and
more!


David Root

2007-09-23

Jason, I tend to strongly agree about the upgrade / downgrade bias. I told myself that I wasn't going to write anything about this but I read your e-mail and I couldn't help myself.
First off I have to say that the Murrays have done great things for Cycling in Oregon.
That being said, I think that there needs to be a more clear standard to upgrades and downgrades.
Since I have been a OBRA racer I have seen many inconsistency's and flaws in this current system. One example is the fact that Candi is upgrading or denying downgrades based upon Masters race's and Master PIR and as far as I know any type of Masters race especially if it is a open Masters or 123 Masters race. So assuming you are a master cat 3 and you do a masters 123 and place in the points no matter the field size then you get upgrade points. If any dont believe me on this then I have the e-mail saved confirming this and I will repost it if nessesary. My original upgrade was also partly based on Masters points.
In USA Cycling (USCF) they do not use such practices in upgrades/downgrades. They go according to category races and correct field sizes only in counting towards upgrades/downgrades.
I feel that I am partly responsible for Sal's untimely departure because he gave me and some other racers who race mostly masters and hadn't placed in any 1/2 races for a long time or not at all a downgrade. I am sure he felt he was doing the right thing based upon OBRA rules on upgrade/downgrade procedures but he was demanded/forced to change that decision based on a personal opinion and twisting of the rules.
If this upgrading/downgrading based on Masters races is going to be apart of the OBRA rules then it needs to be officially added to the rule book and the Web site and not left to interpritation.
Just my humble opinion.

David

Jason Shucker wrote:
Hello OBRA,

Let me start by saying this e-mail most likely will not be popular with the majority of the list, but that's ok. I am going to say what I think a lot of people have felt for a while now, and with the firing of Sal, and the hiring of Kenji, I feel that now might time to bring this up.

First off, what the Murray's have done for Oregon Cycling has been great, and without them, we would not have one of the best, if not the best states in the country for cycling. Their endless dedication to our sport and our state have been a great asset to all of us, and I have no problem thanking them for all their hard work and efforts over the years. Thank You Murrays!!!!!

That being said, for anyone living south of Salem, it has become painfully obvious to a number of us southern riders that there is a HUGE bias towards Portland area riders. I won't get into specific details, but Candi has had no problem upgrading PDX riders who haven't "earned" their upgrade and in all honestly don't deserve to be where they are. While riders in Eugene, Medford, Bend, etc all have to get the exact number of upgrade points. I even know of a few instances in-which a rider had the needed points, but they were not upgraded because Candi did not want to. I have more examples, but I don't want to get into details or name, names. Simply put, for all the great things the Murray's have done for us, there has been a blatant bias towards Portland riders and race organizers. This was something I was hoping would change with the hiring of Sal Collura last year. Sadly though, with his firing, it does not appear this will change

For many of us, we have no clue why Sal was fired, nor did we see any reason for his firing. Myself along with many other riders thought he was doing a great job and saw nothing different with Sal helping to run the show, then we did while Candi was 100% in charge. However after one year, Sal was fired for what appears was no reason. My thought, along with others, is that simply Sal lived in the wrong zip code. How could someone from Springfield, OR show biased towards Portland riders?

As for Kenji, I am sure he'll do a good job, he his a smart educated individual who is passionate about cycling. However, aside from his great blogging skills, I fail to see what he brings to the table that Sal did not. Sal has been a bike racer for many years, he has promoted many successful races, he has volunteered numerous hours to OBRA, and he is very passionate about cycling and OBRA. Aside from the fact he lives outside of the 503 area code, I just don't see what he did wrong. Can anyone fill me into to what Sal did wrong?

Thank you Sal for all your hard work, those of us in the Willamette Valley appreciate you and all you do, and hopefully the fact that you were treated in poor fashion from OBRA will not discourage you from promoting all the races you provide to all of us in Valley. Without you, we would be screwed!

Once again, Thank you to the Murray's for all your hard work and dedication throughout the years. Regardless of my opinion, without you and your efforts we would not have the opportunties we have and I thank you a million times over for you dedication to us bike racers.

And to Kenji A.K.A. "KMan", I know you will do a great job and help lead OBRA into the future, I just hope this new job does not take away from your blogging skills. And please remember to keep in mind, this is the Oregon Bicycle Racing Association, not the Portland Bicycle Racing Association. :)

Shuck On It!
Jason

PS. I know there are probably mixed opinions, but I think the majority of those of us in OBRA feel we are owed at least some information as to why Sal was fired.

---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search._______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


---------------------------------
Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!


Jason Shucker

2007-09-23

Hello OBRA,

Let me start by saying this e-mail most likely will not be popular with the majority of the list, but that's ok. I am going to say what I think a lot of people have felt for a while now, and with the firing of Sal, and the hiring of Kenji, I feel that now might time to bring this up.

First off, what the Murray's have done for Oregon Cycling has been great, and without them, we would not have one of the best, if not the best states in the country for cycling. Their endless dedication to our sport and our state have been a great asset to all of us, and I have no problem thanking them for all their hard work and efforts over the years. Thank You Murrays!!!!!

That being said, for anyone living south of Salem, it has become painfully obvious to a number of us southern riders that there is a HUGE bias towards Portland area riders. I won't get into specific details, but Candi has had no problem upgrading PDX riders who haven't "earned" their upgrade and in all honestly don't deserve to be where they are. While riders in Eugene, Medford, Bend, etc all have to get the exact number of upgrade points. I even know of a few instances in-which a rider had the needed points, but they were not upgraded because Candi did not want to. I have more examples, but I don't want to get into details or name, names. Simply put, for all the great things the Murray's have done for us, there has been a blatant bias towards Portland riders and race organizers. This was something I was hoping would change with the hiring of Sal Collura last year. Sadly though, with his firing, it does not appear this will change

For many of us, we have no clue why Sal was fired, nor did we see any reason for his firing. Myself along with many other riders thought he was doing a great job and saw nothing different with Sal helping to run the show, then we did while Candi was 100% in charge. However after one year, Sal was fired for what appears was no reason. My thought, along with others, is that simply Sal lived in the wrong zip code. How could someone from Springfield, OR show biased towards Portland riders?

As for Kenji, I am sure he'll do a good job, he his a smart educated individual who is passionate about cycling. However, aside from his great blogging skills, I fail to see what he brings to the table that Sal did not. Sal has been a bike racer for many years, he has promoted many successful races, he has volunteered numerous hours to OBRA, and he is very passionate about cycling and OBRA. Aside from the fact he lives outside of the 503 area code, I just don't see what he did wrong. Can anyone fill me into to what Sal did wrong?

Thank you Sal for all your hard work, those of us in the Willamette Valley appreciate you and all you do, and hopefully the fact that you were treated in poor fashion from OBRA will not discourage you from promoting all the races you provide to all of us in Valley. Without you, we would be screwed!

Once again, Thank you to the Murray's for all your hard work and dedication throughout the years. Regardless of my opinion, without you and your efforts we would not have the opportunties we have and I thank you a million times over for you dedication to us bike racers.

And to Kenji A.K.A. "KMan", I know you will do a great job and help lead OBRA into the future, I just hope this new job does not take away from your blogging skills. And please remember to keep in mind, this is the Oregon Bicycle Racing Association, not the Portland Bicycle Racing Association. :)

Shuck On It!
Jason

PS. I know there are probably mixed opinions, but I think the majority of those of us in OBRA feel we are owed at least some information as to why Sal was fired.


---------------------------------
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
Check out fitting gifts for grads at Yahoo! Search.