Greg Umscheid

rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating..." Hell, that is cross!

g.

From: tony@pereiracycles.comTo: sharkattack97219@peoplepc.com; trww@embarqmail.com; jonemyers@lycos.com; obra@list.obra.orgDate: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 21:11:18 -0800Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

Everybody settle down...I wasn't ripping them. I just asked a simple question. I'm still pretty new to to the cross crusade, but the courses this year have seemed less technical than that past two year. That's all...

Thanks to everyone for putting on the best race series I've ever been involved with.

See you tomorrow.

-Tony

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Jeff Tedder & ShariSent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 6:55 PMTo: Ike Kendrick; Jon Myers; obra@list.obra.orgSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

I agree, one persons strength is another's weakness, so every course is going to make somebody very happy and other's unhappy....Just be thankful that Brad and the Crusade do the things they do so you can race every weekend...I am sure they would much rather you give them a big pat on the back and say thanks instead of ripping them apart on OBRA chat about changing a course, you guys have not even seen the course so you have no idea what it will be like, you might like it......Just my 2 cents....

Jeff TedderHammer Nutrition ProductsSolid Core Training503-246-2388cell 503-473-7650




@list.obra.org

Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes
Jon,Thanks for the heads up I was outing fitting my 29er with cross tires, now I'll bring my cross bike. 1995 at Johnson Farm I received a 3rd place ribbon for the Masters 40+, at that time there was three of us in that Cat.With the current number of racers it's impossible to make everyone happy but at the end of the day we're all smiling.Just keep doing what you do best.-Ike KendrickJon Myers wrote:
Folks,

For Barton on Sunday please note the following:

1) Do not bring alcohol. It is not allowed in the Park.

2) Stay off all the rock piles in the parking area.

In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think you know Barton - think again!

-Jon Myers
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Tony Pereira

Everybody settle down...I wasn't ripping them. I just asked a simple
question. I'm still pretty new to to the cross crusade, but the courses this
year have seemed less technical than that past two year. That's all...

Thanks to everyone for putting on the best race series I've ever been
involved with.

See you tomorrow.

-Tony

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Tedder & Shari
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 6:55 PM
To: Ike Kendrick; Jon Myers; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

I agree, one persons strength is another's weakness, so every course is
going to make somebody very happy and other's unhappy....Just be thankful
that Brad and the Crusade do the things they do so you can race every
weekend...I am sure they would much rather you give them a big pat on the
back and say thanks instead of ripping them apart on OBRA chat about
changing a course, you guys have not even seen the course so you have no
idea what it will be like, you might like it......Just my 2 cents....

Jeff Tedder
Hammer Nutrition Products
Solid Core Training
503-246-2388
cell 503-473-7650




@list.obra.org

Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

Jon,
Thanks for the heads up I was outing fitting my 29er with cross tires, now
I'll bring my cross bike.
1995 at Johnson Farm I received a 3rd place ribbon for the Masters 40+, at
that time there was three of us in that Cat.
With the current number of racers it's impossible to make everyone happy but
at the end of the day we're all smiling.
Just keep doing what you do best.
-Ike Kendrick

Jon Myers wrote:

Folks,

For Barton on Sunday please note the following:

1) Do not bring alcohol. It is not allowed in the Park.

2) Stay off all the rock piles in the parking area.

In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some
rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot
of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year
the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of
pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So,
if you think you know Barton - think again!

-Jon Myers

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jeff Tedder & Shari

I agree, one persons strength is another's weakness, so every course is going to make somebody very happy and other's unhappy....Just be thankful that Brad and the Crusade do the things they do so you can race every weekend...I am sure they would much rather you give them a big pat on the back and say thanks instead of ripping them apart on OBRA chat about changing a course, you guys have not even seen the course so you have no idea what it will be like, you might like it......Just my 2 cents....

Jeff Tedder
Hammer Nutrition Products
Solid Core Training
503-246-2388
cell 503-473-7650

@list.obra.org
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2007 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

Jon,
Thanks for the heads up I was outing fitting my 29er with cross tires, now I'll bring my cross bike.
1995 at Johnson Farm I received a 3rd place ribbon for the Masters 40+, at that time there was three of us in that Cat.
With the current number of racers it's impossible to make everyone happy but at the end of the day we're all smiling.
Just keep doing what you do best.
-Ike Kendrick

Jon Myers wrote:
Folks,

For Barton on Sunday please note the following:

1) Do not bring alcohol. It is not allowed in the Park.

2) Stay off all the rock piles in the parking area.

In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think you know Barton - think again!

-Jon Myers
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Ron and Dorothy Strasser

I liked that hill too... but I had lots of respect for it as well!
----- Original Message -----
From: Darell C. Provencher
To: Devin Flynn
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:51 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

Two years ago I raced Barton on fixed gear. Loved that suicide downhill.

DP

On 11/2/07, Devin Flynn wrote:
The pansies have won out.

Jon Myers wrote:

In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think you know Barton - think again!

-Jon Myers
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Eddie French

If the courses are not technical enough for all of you i would
recommend going faster, the course becomes much more technical at high
speed.
this is cyclocross not mnt. biking and the promoters have done a great
job with what they have to work with. that being said i would love to
see
more barriers or off the bike on the bike transition thats what i
consider one of the main technical aspects of cross and has been
missing from most of the races.

thank guys :) E

On Saturday, November 3, 2007, at 08:45 AM, Steve Lacey wrote:

> I echo the sentiment of Tony and all the commenters regarding the
> technical nature of the courses. Crusader promoters have done great
> job  making challenging courses with what they have to work with at
> the various venues.
>
> Rainer was premier and Astoria was pretty dull, but they worked with
> what they had available.  That all being  said, terrain and ability to
> design a challenging course should be one of the primary
> considerations when selecting venues.
>
> It would be a shame if a venue has the technical resources available
> to make a challenging course and they were not used. 
>
> As I recall Barton has been pretty consistently a mud pit.   It looks
> like this year we will have a relatively dry course. So why not leave
> in the traditional technical sections, it will seem new to every one
> because of the conditions and  tactics of  riding  them.
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jon Myers
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 7:22:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes
>
> We have not made any philosophical changes to course design this year.
>   For the most part we try to change things around a bit every year so
> the courses don't get stale.
>   Alpenrose is never a real technical course.  Hornings was probably a
> bit less technical with the removal of the big downhill.  I thought
> Rainier was a very good technical course.  It had lot of sections of
> off camber slick turns and some good vertical.  There was a lot of
> time that could be made up by a good technical rider that was willing
> to be aggressive.  Astoria was a course that favored good cornering
> skills and and short accelerations, but it was not very difficult
> technically.   Barton won't be as technical as last year, but it will
> be more technical than the first year we did Barton and next year we
> will change it around again.
>   We do appriciate input and suggestions.  If we hear a lot of
> complaints or suggestions we do make changes.
>
>   Thanks, Jon
>
> _______________________________________________
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Steve Lacey

I echo the sentiment of Tony and all the commenters regarding the technical nature of the courses. Crusader promoters have done great job making challenging courses with what they have to work with at the various venues.

Rainer was premier and Astoria was pretty dull, but they worked with what they had available. That all being said, terrain and ability to design a challenging course should be one of the primary considerations when selecting venues.

It would be a shame if a venue has the technical resources available to make a challenging course and they were not used.

As I recall Barton has been pretty consistently a mud pit. It looks like this year we will have a relatively dry course. So why not leave in the traditional technical sections, it will seem new to every one because of the conditions and tactics of riding them.

Steve

----- Original Message ----
From: Jon Myers
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 7:22:15 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

We have not made any philosophical changes to course design this year.
For the most part we try to change things around a bit every year so
the courses don't get stale.
Alpenrose is never a real technical course. Hornings was probably a
bit less technical with the removal of the big downhill. I thought
Rainier was a very good technical course. It had lot of sections of off
camber slick turns and some good vertical. There was a lot of time
that could be made up by a good technical rider that was willing to be
aggressive. Astoria was a course that favored good cornering skills and
and short accelerations, but it was not very difficult technically.
Barton won't be as technical as last year, but it will be more technical
than the first year we did Barton and next year we will change it around
again.
We do appriciate input and suggestions. If we hear a lot of
complaints or suggestions we do make changes.

Thanks, Jon

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Ike Kendrick

Jon,
Thanks for the heads up I was outing fitting my 29er with cross tires,
now I'll bring my cross bike.
1995 at Johnson Farm I received a 3rd place ribbon for the Masters 40+,
at that time there was _*three*_ of us in that Cat.
With the current number of racers it's impossible to make everyone happy
but at the end of the day we're all smiling.
Just keep doing what you do best.
-Ike Kendrick

Jon Myers wrote:
> Folks,
>
> For Barton on Sunday please note the following:
>
> 1) Do not bring alcohol. It is not allowed in the Park.
>
> 2) Stay off all the rock piles in the parking area.
>
> In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think you know Barton - think again!
>
> -Jon Myers
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>

zak

aka: bike racers are squares. have some fun. its not supposed to family safe fun is it? or maybe is is. watered down.
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2007 19:30:42 -0700
From: orbiker71@yahoo.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

The pansies have won out.

Jon Myers wrote:
In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think you know Barton - think again!

-Jon Myers
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Darell C. Provencher

Two years ago I raced Barton on fixed gear. Loved that suicide downhill.

DP

On 11/2/07, Devin Flynn wrote:
>
> The pansies have won out.
>
> *Jon Myers * wrote:
>
>
> In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some
> rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot
> of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the
> scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement.
> The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think
> you know Barton - think again!
>
> -Jon Myers
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
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>
>

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Erik Voldengen

And of course, with this stinkin' dry spell we're having, the courses have
all been...dry. Throw in a bunch of rain, and things always get a lot more
technical. I remember the USGP at Alpenrose as a good example.

Any chance we good get a few inches of rain for Barton, Jon?

-Erik

On 11/2/07, Jon Myers wrote:
>
> We have not made any philosophical changes to course design this
> year. For the most part we try to change things around a bit every year so
> the courses don't get stale.
> Alpenrose is never a real technical course. Hornings was probably a
> bit less technical with the removal of the big downhill. I thought Rainier
> was a very good technical course. It had lot of sections of off camber
> slick turns and some good vertical. There was a lot of time that could be
> made up by a good technical rider that was willing to be
> aggressive. Astoria was a course that favored good cornering skills and and
> short accelerations, but it was not very difficult technically. Barton
> won't be as technical as last year, but it will be more technical than the
> first year we did Barton and next year we will change it around again.
> We do appriciate input and suggestions. If we hear a lot of complaints
> or suggestions we do make changes.
>
> Thanks, Jon
>

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

I agree. The courses have been pretty darn fun and tough. I do like the technical ones more mucho... but lets race the "New" Barton before we decide. I have always loved what they made us deal with at the Pit, but I can't imagine it being too easy a course. If nothing else... we 50+ geezers will freeze our fannys on the first race.
ride hard and take lots of chances.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Cyclist
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

I agree completely...we should all go blazing down a muddy hill with little traction and no brakes once and a while and while we're at it why don't we put a hairpin turn at the bottom with a huge mud pit for those that can't make the turn ;) ....just kidding, but I do think the mix of terrain in the cross races thus far allows those with particular stregths to place higher in some races...I think the organizers are doing a great job of mixing it up, keep up the good work Crusaders !!!

On 11/2/07, Charlie Wicker wrote:
I concur with Tony. Of the many things that makes cyclocross fun, the technical challenges are top of my list. Given I can't rely on pure fitness and power, I must rely a bit on insanity. Blazing down a muddy hill faster than the next guy with little traction and no brakes is the only way I can place respectably.
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Jon Myers

We have not made any philosophical changes to course design this year. For the most part we try to change things around a bit every year so the courses don't get stale.
Alpenrose is never a real technical course. Hornings was probably a bit less technical with the removal of the big downhill. I thought Rainier was a very good technical course. It had lot of sections of off camber slick turns and some good vertical. There was a lot of time that could be made up by a good technical rider that was willing to be aggressive. Astoria was a course that favored good cornering skills and and short accelerations, but it was not very difficult technically. Barton won't be as technical as last year, but it will be more technical than the first year we did Barton and next year we will change it around again.
We do appriciate input and suggestions. If we hear a lot of complaints or suggestions we do make changes.

Thanks, Jon

NW Cyclist

I agree completely...we should all go blazing down a muddy hill with little
traction and no brakes once and a while and while we're at it why don't we
put a hairpin turn at the bottom with a huge mud pit for those that can't
make the turn ;) ....just kidding, but I do think the mix of terrain in the
cross races thus far allows those with particular stregths to place higher
in some races...I think the organizers are doing a great job of mixing it
up, keep up the good work Crusaders !!!

On 11/2/07, Charlie Wicker wrote:
>
> I concur with Tony. Of the many things that makes cyclocross fun, the
> technical challenges are top of my list. Given I can't rely on pure fitness
> and power, I must rely a bit on insanity. Blazing down a muddy hill faster
> than the next guy with little traction and no brakes is the only way I can
> place respectably.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Olson, Slate

Also note that we 'fall back' Sunday morning. So, we'll be short one fun decent and one hour back. Set the clocks back Crusaders.

Hup.

Slate Olson
NIKE Advertising
503.671.4620

----- Original Message -----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Fri Nov 02 18:27:08 2007
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Barton Cross Crusade notes

Folks,

For Barton on Sunday please note the following:

1) Do not bring alcohol. It is not allowed in the Park.

2) Stay off all the rock piles in the parking area.

In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think you know Barton - think again!

-Jon Myers
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Devin Flynn

The pansies have won out.

Jon Myers wrote:
In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think you know Barton - think again!

-Jon Myers
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Charlie Wicker

I concur with Tony. Of the many things that makes cyclocross fun, the technical challenges are top of my list. Given I can't rely on pure fitness and power, I must rely a bit on insanity. Blazing down a muddy hill faster than the next guy with little traction and no brakes is the only way I can place respectably.

Tony Pereira

Has there been a philosophy change on the course design this year? I
really liked the steep sections. The one by the start/finish area was
particularly fun.
The courses seem to be getting less and less technical and many of the
folks I ride with have been a bit disappointed.

-Tony

Jon Myers wrote:
> Folks,
>
> For Barton on Sunday please note the following:
>
> 1) Do not bring alcohol. It is not allowed in the Park.
>
> 2) Stay off all the rock piles in the parking area.
>
> In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think you know Barton - think again!
>
> -Jon Myers
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Jon Myers

Folks,

For Barton on Sunday please note the following:

1) Do not bring alcohol. It is not allowed in the Park.

2) Stay off all the rock piles in the parking area.

In the past the course has been very tough on equipment. There were some rough decents that were steep and sometimes intimidating. There were a lot of gritty wet sections that tended to be tough on brakes, etc. This year the scary decents are gone and there will even be a decent length of pavement. The course should be very fast and a lot less intimiating. So, if you think you know Barton - think again!

-Jon Myers