Hey Obraville,
A buddy set this up for me. I do need new pedals. If any and all of you
would be willing to vote and pass it along that would be great.
http://platform.votigo.com/fbcontests/showentry/Crampon-Ultimate-Giveaway/34920
Best regards,
Peter
--
Peter Staiger
Alta Enterprises, Inc.
1910 Bustle Creek Road
Alta, WY 83414
800.624.1235 Office
541.231.1238 Cell
541.230.1291 Fax
pstaiger@altaenterprises.com
www.altaenterprises.com
Yes, Lead by example!
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ken Finch
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:46 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
" In my car on my bike I stop at every stop sign. If you ride with me so
will you. If you don't you are not going to enjoy the lecture."
Over the past few years, as I've gotten older (and wiser?) I've gotten much
more conservative in my riding. I no longer ride through red lights and
generally do every thing I can to present myself as an upstanding citizen.
I'm not saying I stop for every stop sign I see in residential neighborhoods
and the like but if there's a signal or it's a high profile situation with
cars around, I do.
There are many reasons for doing this; safety, activism, personnel
responsibility, keeping your team's good name, among others. With all the
recent goings on in this town regarding the rights of cyclists in traffic, I
think it's important to realize that to get respect, we need to show it as
well. Maybe just doing a little bit to help bicycling become an more
accepted and respected form of transportation in the name of Tracy Starling
and Brett Jarolimek is enough.
OK, I'll climb down off my soapbox now.
Ken F.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
" In my car on my bike I stop at every stop sign. If you ride with me so will you. If you don't you are not going to enjoy the lecture."
Over the past few years, as I've gotten older (and wiser?) I've gotten much more conservative in my riding. I no longer ride through red lights and generally do every thing I can to present myself as an upstanding citizen. I'm not saying I stop for every stop sign I see in residential neighborhoods and the like but if there's a signal or it's a high profile situation with cars around, I do.
There are many reasons for doing this; safety, activism, personnel responsibility, keeping your team's good name, among others. With all the recent goings on in this town regarding the rights of cyclists in traffic, I think it's important to realize that to get respect, we need to show it as well. Maybe just doing a little bit to help bicycling become an more accepted and respected form of transportation in the name of Tracy Starling and Brett Jarolimek is enough.
OK, I'll climb down off my soapbox now.
Ken F.
In my car on my bike I stop at every stop sign. If you ride with me so
will you. If you don't you are not going to enjoy the lecture.
zak wrote:
> haha...that WAS a joke, right? i hope i dont get "fired" from my
> amateur racing team for rolling an arbitrary stop sign. those folks in
> ladds will turn you in if this guy doesnt.
>
> note to self: team kit is now only for sanctioned races.
>
>
> > From: dan@bicyclerepairman.us
> > To: Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov; kristinw@gmail.com;
> jonathan@bikeportland.org; obra@list.obra.org
> > Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 20:53:06 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
> >
> > During the last 6 months I have sometimes stood at the intersection
> of SW
> > Troy and 36th in Multnomah Village where if you are traveling west
> there is
> > a stop sign and a car or bike goes by about every 3 seconds. The
> only wheels
> > I have ever seen stop turning are on Tri Met busses. No one else has
> ever
> > stopped including police. Lots of people don't even slow down there.
> > The majority of vehicles that blow that stop are cars because the
> majority
> > of vehicles that go through there are cars. I have never seen a bike
> stop
> > there either and I recognize some of them as OBRA members wearing
> team kit.
> > I can understand "Joe I gotta ride a bike because I lost my license"
> > scoffing at traffic laws but if you are wearing team kit you are
> > representing a business. Why is there no Discovery team this year?
> Because
> > no company wants to be associated with cheating. Think about it.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Long, Steve"
> > To: "Kristin" ; "Jonathan Maus"
> > ; "OBRA list list"
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
> >
> >
> > > That report they ran on the 11:00 PM news the other night was
> completely
> > > imbalanced and biased.
> > > For instance, they started the report laying the ground work of
> the two
> > > recent fatal collisions of Tracy and Brett and then went directly into
> > > how cyclists fail to stop of some stop signs. The problem with
> that part
> > > of their report was that cyclists failing to stop at stop signs had
> > > nothing to do with those fatalities.
> > >
> > > Additionally, they let their camera run at a stop sign in Ladd's
> > > Addition (I think it was) and it showed ~33 cyclists runing the stop
> > > sign and about that many bikes coming through. They also said that
> > > "Some" cars didn't stop at that stop sign. But, if they really
> wanted to
> > > present a balanced story, they would have counted the number of both
> > > bikes and cars coming through and the percentage of each that didn't
> > > stop at that stop sign, which, again, had nothing to do with the two
> > > recent fatalities.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Kristin
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:50 AM
> > > To: Jonathan Maus; OBRA list list
> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
> > >
> > > I wish KGW would get some new writers. Every night their teasers
> for the
> > > 11pm news are so unbelievably inflaming... "Bike VS Car!!! The
> ultimate
> > > throw down!"
> > >
> > > Great idea, let's make the general public believe that all
> cyclists are
> > > out to break the law and annoy drivers and all motorists are out
> to get
> > > cyclists. Thanks a lot, that really helps.
> > >
> > > kristin
> > >
> > > On Nov 8, 2007 9:38 AM, Jonathan Maus
> wrote:
> > >> Just FYI,
> > >>
> > >> KGW has completely misrepresented this issue. It has nothing to do
> > >> with "cyclists writing tickets" or vigilantism. Please don't be
> > >> fooled by KGW's need to whip up the "cars vs. bikes" war/frenzy at
> > > every opportunity.
> > >>
> > >> The issue is really about citizens having the right to bring
> their own
> > >
> > >> case to a judge, present their argument, and then let the court
> decide
> > >
> > >> who is right. In my bike collisions there is either no investigation
> > >> performed or the the investigation may not be completed correctly or
> > >> to the satisfaction of all parties involved. When that happens,
> > >> there's a law on the books that gives citizens the right to require
> > >> the officer to appear in court and have a fair trial.
> > >>
> > >> This process has been used effectively by several local cyclists in
> > >> recent years.
> > >>
> > >> If you're interested, I've covered this at length on BikePortland.org
> > >> in the
> > >> past:
> > >>
> > >> --Here's the story of a local cyclist who went through the
> process and
> > >
> > >> succeeded - http://tinyurl.com/2jwpay --Here's a full account of the
> > >> process - http://tinyurl.com/36wuf3 --More background on the
> process -
> > >
> > >> http://tinyurl.com/3aqosu
> > >>
> > >> It's really not just "cyclists writing tickets".
> > >>
> > >> if anyone has questions about this I'm happy to try and answer them.
> > >>
> > >> --Jonathan
> > >> _____________________
> > >> Jonathan Maus
> > >> http://www.BikePortland.org
> > >> News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
> > >> jonathan@bikeportland.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Ike Kendrick wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> > >> -ike
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> david baker wrote:
> > >> That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> > >> cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> > >> it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> > >> especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> > >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
> > >>
> > >> To:
> > >> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> > >> Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citation
> > >> s.1ede0dde1.html
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Lets change these results!
> > >> -ike
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> OBRA mailing list
> > >> obra@list.obra.org
> > >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> OBRA mailing list
> > >> obra@list.obra.org
> > >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> OBRA mailing list
> > >> obra@list.obra.org
> > >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > __________________
> > > www.runbikeswim.net
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble
> challenge with star power. Play Now!
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.25/1118 - Release Date: 11/8/2007 9:29 AM
>
"haha...that WAS a joke, right? i hope i dont get "fired" from my amateur racing team for rolling an arbitrary stop sign. those folks in ladds will turn you in if this guy doesnt."
Riding like an ass while in your kit is a lame idea but obviously is your choice. Personally, I think it is already hard enough to convince sponsors to give/support a team when they have so many choices with their "marketing" dollar. It is very easy for somebody to get a hold of our sponsors just by looking at our jerseys. So, if you anger somebody, they could complain to our sponsors directly and possibly screw up our deal. But hell, what do I care as long as your not on my team.
_____________________________________________________________
Start your day right. Click here for great deals on coffee makers.
http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL2211/fc/Ioyw6ijlnsZjihvtLq2gk4DSolerDgRQzHVfPmaVmYUsSDEibaGluR/
haha...that WAS a joke, right? i hope i dont get "fired" from my amateur racing team for rolling an arbitrary stop sign. those folks in ladds will turn you in if this guy doesnt.
note to self: team kit is now only for sanctioned races.
> From: dan@bicyclerepairman.us
> To: Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov; kristinw@gmail.com; jonathan@bikeportland.org; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 20:53:06 -0800
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
>
> During the last 6 months I have sometimes stood at the intersection of SW
> Troy and 36th in Multnomah Village where if you are traveling west there is
> a stop sign and a car or bike goes by about every 3 seconds. The only wheels
> I have ever seen stop turning are on Tri Met busses. No one else has ever
> stopped including police. Lots of people don't even slow down there.
> The majority of vehicles that blow that stop are cars because the majority
> of vehicles that go through there are cars. I have never seen a bike stop
> there either and I recognize some of them as OBRA members wearing team kit.
> I can understand "Joe I gotta ride a bike because I lost my license"
> scoffing at traffic laws but if you are wearing team kit you are
> representing a business. Why is there no Discovery team this year? Because
> no company wants to be associated with cheating. Think about it.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Long, Steve"
> To: "Kristin" ; "Jonathan Maus"
> ; "OBRA list list"
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
>
>
> > That report they ran on the 11:00 PM news the other night was completely
> > imbalanced and biased.
> > For instance, they started the report laying the ground work of the two
> > recent fatal collisions of Tracy and Brett and then went directly into
> > how cyclists fail to stop of some stop signs. The problem with that part
> > of their report was that cyclists failing to stop at stop signs had
> > nothing to do with those fatalities.
> >
> > Additionally, they let their camera run at a stop sign in Ladd's
> > Addition (I think it was) and it showed ~33 cyclists runing the stop
> > sign and about that many bikes coming through. They also said that
> > "Some" cars didn't stop at that stop sign. But, if they really wanted to
> > present a balanced story, they would have counted the number of both
> > bikes and cars coming through and the percentage of each that didn't
> > stop at that stop sign, which, again, had nothing to do with the two
> > recent fatalities.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> > Behalf Of Kristin
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:50 AM
> > To: Jonathan Maus; OBRA list list
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
> >
> > I wish KGW would get some new writers. Every night their teasers for the
> > 11pm news are so unbelievably inflaming... "Bike VS Car!!! The ultimate
> > throw down!"
> >
> > Great idea, let's make the general public believe that all cyclists are
> > out to break the law and annoy drivers and all motorists are out to get
> > cyclists. Thanks a lot, that really helps.
> >
> > kristin
> >
> > On Nov 8, 2007 9:38 AM, Jonathan Maus wrote:
> >> Just FYI,
> >>
> >> KGW has completely misrepresented this issue. It has nothing to do
> >> with "cyclists writing tickets" or vigilantism. Please don't be
> >> fooled by KGW's need to whip up the "cars vs. bikes" war/frenzy at
> > every opportunity.
> >>
> >> The issue is really about citizens having the right to bring their own
> >
> >> case to a judge, present their argument, and then let the court decide
> >
> >> who is right. In my bike collisions there is either no investigation
> >> performed or the the investigation may not be completed correctly or
> >> to the satisfaction of all parties involved. When that happens,
> >> there's a law on the books that gives citizens the right to require
> >> the officer to appear in court and have a fair trial.
> >>
> >> This process has been used effectively by several local cyclists in
> >> recent years.
> >>
> >> If you're interested, I've covered this at length on BikePortland.org
> >> in the
> >> past:
> >>
> >> --Here's the story of a local cyclist who went through the process and
> >
> >> succeeded - http://tinyurl.com/2jwpay --Here's a full account of the
> >> process - http://tinyurl.com/36wuf3 --More background on the process -
> >
> >> http://tinyurl.com/3aqosu
> >>
> >> It's really not just "cyclists writing tickets".
> >>
> >> if anyone has questions about this I'm happy to try and answer them.
> >>
> >> --Jonathan
> >> _____________________
> >> Jonathan Maus
> >> http://www.BikePortland.org
> >> News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
> >> jonathan@bikeportland.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Ike Kendrick wrote:
> >>
> >> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> >> -ike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> david baker wrote:
> >> That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> >> cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> >> it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> >> especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
> >>
> >> To:
> >> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> >> Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citation
> >> s.1ede0dde1.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Lets change these results!
> >> -ike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > __________________
> > www.runbikeswim.net
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
Climb to the top of the charts! Play Star Shuffle: the word scramble challenge with star power.
http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct
During the last 6 months I have sometimes stood at the intersection of SW
Troy and 36th in Multnomah Village where if you are traveling west there is
a stop sign and a car or bike goes by about every 3 seconds. The only wheels
I have ever seen stop turning are on Tri Met busses. No one else has ever
stopped including police. Lots of people don't even slow down there.
The majority of vehicles that blow that stop are cars because the majority
of vehicles that go through there are cars. I have never seen a bike stop
there either and I recognize some of them as OBRA members wearing team kit.
I can understand "Joe I gotta ride a bike because I lost my license"
scoffing at traffic laws but if you are wearing team kit you are
representing a business. Why is there no Discovery team this year? Because
no company wants to be associated with cheating. Think about it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Long, Steve"
To: "Kristin" ; "Jonathan Maus"
; "OBRA list list"
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
> That report they ran on the 11:00 PM news the other night was completely
> imbalanced and biased.
> For instance, they started the report laying the ground work of the two
> recent fatal collisions of Tracy and Brett and then went directly into
> how cyclists fail to stop of some stop signs. The problem with that part
> of their report was that cyclists failing to stop at stop signs had
> nothing to do with those fatalities.
>
> Additionally, they let their camera run at a stop sign in Ladd's
> Addition (I think it was) and it showed ~33 cyclists runing the stop
> sign and about that many bikes coming through. They also said that
> "Some" cars didn't stop at that stop sign. But, if they really wanted to
> present a balanced story, they would have counted the number of both
> bikes and cars coming through and the percentage of each that didn't
> stop at that stop sign, which, again, had nothing to do with the two
> recent fatalities.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Kristin
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:50 AM
> To: Jonathan Maus; OBRA list list
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
>
> I wish KGW would get some new writers. Every night their teasers for the
> 11pm news are so unbelievably inflaming... "Bike VS Car!!! The ultimate
> throw down!"
>
> Great idea, let's make the general public believe that all cyclists are
> out to break the law and annoy drivers and all motorists are out to get
> cyclists. Thanks a lot, that really helps.
>
> kristin
>
> On Nov 8, 2007 9:38 AM, Jonathan Maus wrote:
>> Just FYI,
>>
>> KGW has completely misrepresented this issue. It has nothing to do
>> with "cyclists writing tickets" or vigilantism. Please don't be
>> fooled by KGW's need to whip up the "cars vs. bikes" war/frenzy at
> every opportunity.
>>
>> The issue is really about citizens having the right to bring their own
>
>> case to a judge, present their argument, and then let the court decide
>
>> who is right. In my bike collisions there is either no investigation
>> performed or the the investigation may not be completed correctly or
>> to the satisfaction of all parties involved. When that happens,
>> there's a law on the books that gives citizens the right to require
>> the officer to appear in court and have a fair trial.
>>
>> This process has been used effectively by several local cyclists in
>> recent years.
>>
>> If you're interested, I've covered this at length on BikePortland.org
>> in the
>> past:
>>
>> --Here's the story of a local cyclist who went through the process and
>
>> succeeded - http://tinyurl.com/2jwpay --Here's a full account of the
>> process - http://tinyurl.com/36wuf3 --More background on the process -
>
>> http://tinyurl.com/3aqosu
>>
>> It's really not just "cyclists writing tickets".
>>
>> if anyone has questions about this I'm happy to try and answer them.
>>
>> --Jonathan
>> _____________________
>> Jonathan Maus
>> http://www.BikePortland.org
>> News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
>> jonathan@bikeportland.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Ike Kendrick wrote:
>>
>> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
>> -ike
>>
>>
>>
>> david baker wrote:
>> That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
>> cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
>> it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
>> especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
>>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citation
>> s.1ede0dde1.html
>>
>>
>> Lets change these results!
>> -ike
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> __________________
> www.runbikeswim.net
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
A couple of years ago I was hit on my bike while proceeding straight in a
bike lane and right-hooked by a car turning right without signalling.
You could argue I was passing on the right but my understanding is that
while this is unwise, it is not an offense while riding in a bike lane in
Portland and the driver was found to be at fault.
My auto insurance paid all of my medical bills plus damages ($55k plus) plus
sued to recover expenses from the driver who was uninsured and failed to
fill out an accident report and I further doubt is able to drive legally
now.
Maybe someone better qualified than me could clarify, but my experience is
that if you have a comprehensive auto insurance policy then you ARE covered
on your bike.
Doug Palmer.
>From: Chris Alling
>To: Evan Plews ,
>,
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
>Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 12:58:49 -0800
>
>Seems like this would work if both parties are represented by insurance
>companies like in an auto accident. I would suspect that most of us do not
>have an insurance company that would take up this investigation if an
>accident were to happen while we are riding.
>
>
>From: plewse@hotmail.comTo: shane.young@oregonvelo.com;
>obra@list.obra.orgDate: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 20:47:31 +0000Subject: Re: [OBRA
>Chat] vote
>
>
>Additional note: Insurance companies can investigate even if there was not
>an officer or citation. This sometimes results in claims being made between
>companies and resulting settlements being paid (maybe good/bad depending on
>your side). Often one insurance opts not to fight the claim and this
>results in increased rates regardless of
>fault.
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
I will write more tonight, but there are two issues for portland that are intersecting .
There is a a state law that says police can't issue violation citations unless their either witness it, or do an investigation, and
the portland police who only investigate injury collisions if anyone is hurt badly enough to be entered into the level one trauma system. (this is a high injury threshhold)
so bike v. car, broken leg= no investigation= no citation.
I'll cover the insurance aspects when I am not at my day job representing cyclists in bike crashes.
Mark Ginsberg
shane.young@oregonvelo.com wrote: Oregon is an at fault state. Meaning that in an accident the person that is 51% in the wrong is completely at fault, thus their insurance company must pay. If no citation is written for an accident, insurance companies will claim that no one was at fault and therefore they don't have to pay. So the police not issuing a ticket for accidents that have injuries and or damage are side stepping their mole hill and creating a mountain of work for the injured (wronged) party. People will often admit fault at the scene but give them a day or two to think about it and they have plenty of time to create some lie.
Being able to issue citations as a bicyclist, driver, or pedestrian is a good thing. For some people it is the only way they will be able to collect for damages they have incurred due to someone else?s wrong.
If my facts are messed up here, please correct me if I am wrong. These are based off the information I have gotten from insurance companies and police officers when dealing with the aftermath of accidents.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ike Kendrick trww@embarqmail.com
To: david baker dirtsurf@ykwc.net, obra@list.obra.org
Sent: 11/8/07 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> -ike
>
>
>
> david baker wrote:
> > That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> > cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> > it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> > especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
> >
> >
> >> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Lets change these results!
> >> -ike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
It has been my experience, that if you have homeowners insurance, then:
a - Your bicycle may becovered by your homeowners policy.
b - Your insurance company will work on your behalf in the event of an accident.
This has happened twice tome and both times, my insurance company (Safeco -- I recommend them highly!), went to bat for me and the result was recovered damages and new bike do to the motorists fault.
Joe Cipale
Chris Alling wrote:
> Seems like this would work if both parties are represented by insurance com=
> panies like in an auto accident. I would suspect that most of us do not hav=
> e an insurance company that would take up this investigation if an accident=
> were to happen while we are riding.=20
>
>
> From: plewse@hotmail.comTo: shane.young@oregonvelo.com; obra@list.obra.orgD=
> ate: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 20:47:31 +0000Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
>
>
> Additional note: Insurance companies can investigate even if there was not =
> an officer or citation. This sometimes results in claims being made between=
> companies and resulting settlements being paid (maybe good/bad depending o=
> n your side). Often one insurance opts not to fight the claim and this resu=
> lts in increased rates regardless of fault.
I haven't been paying close attention to this discussion, but I don't
see any value in a cyclist being able to write a ticket.
I can't imagine that one party in an accident writing a citation against
another to establish fault is going to pass any sort of legal muster.
As you point out, give people time, and they'll come up with a lie to
get out of taking any responsibility. Write them a citizens ticket
yourself, and they'll come up with a lie that much sooner, and probably
write you a ticket to counter yours.
In any serious accident involving injury or property damage, the police
are going to be called to the scene. If they chose not to write a
ticket based on the evidence they find, or how they chose to interpret
that evidence, I don't think a citizen deciding that the police are
wrong and issuing their own ticket is going to produce any meaningful
results. It seems like that would be pretty easy to defend against. A
professional police officer decides not to write a ticket but an
untrained citizen (with a biased interest in the matter) does, who is
more credible?
With the general perception of cyclist among the police, media, and
general public, a cyclist writing a ticket is pretty much meaningless.
How many times have you heard stories about a cyclist being injured or
killed when a driver was clearly at fault, and the driver getting off
scott free or with a paltry slap on the wrist.
More often than not, it is assumed without question that the cyclist did
something wrong, and that perception is what needs to change before we
can ever expect to be treated as equal road users.
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of shane.young@oregonvelo.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:02 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
Oregon is an at fault state. Meaning that in an accident the person
that is 51% in the wrong is completely at fault, thus their insurance
company must pay. If no citation is written for an accident, insurance
companies will claim that no one was at fault and therefore they don't
have to pay. So the police not issuing a ticket for accidents that have
injuries and or damage are side stepping their mole hill and creating a
mountain of work for the injured (wronged) party. People will often
admit fault at the scene but give them a day or two to think about it
and they have plenty of time to create some lie.
Being able to issue citations as a bicyclist, driver, or pedestrian is a
good thing. For some people it is the only way they will be able to
collect for damages they have incurred due to someone else's wrong.
If my facts are messed up here, please correct me if I am wrong. These
are based off the information I have gotten from insurance companies and
police officers when dealing with the aftermath of accidents.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ike Kendrick trww@embarqmail.com
To: david baker dirtsurf@ykwc.net, obra@list.obra.org
Sent: 11/8/07 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> -ike
>
>
>
> david baker wrote:
> > That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> > cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> > it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> > especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
> >
> >
> >> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citat
> >> ions.1ede0dde1.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Lets change these results!
> >> -ike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of shane.young@oregonvelo.com
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:02 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
Oregon is an at fault state. Meaning that in an accident the person
that is 51% in the wrong is completely at fault, thus their insurance
company must pay. If no citation is written for an accident, insurance
companies will claim that no one was at fault and therefore they don't
have to pay. So the police not issuing a ticket for accidents that have
injuries and or damage are side stepping their mole hill and creating a
mountain of work for the injured (wronged) party. People will often
admit fault at the scene but give them a day or two to think about it
and they have plenty of time to create some lie.
Being able to issue citations as a bicyclist, driver, or pedestrian is a
good thing. For some people it is the only way they will be able to
collect for damages they have incurred due to someone else's wrong.
If my facts are messed up here, please correct me if I am wrong. These
are based off the information I have gotten from insurance companies and
police officers when dealing with the aftermath of accidents.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ike Kendrick trww@embarqmail.com
To: david baker dirtsurf@ykwc.net, obra@list.obra.org
Sent: 11/8/07 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> -ike
>
>
>
> david baker wrote:
> > That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> > cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> > it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> > especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
> >
> >
> >> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citat
> >> ions.1ede0dde1.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Lets change these results!
> >> -ike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
On the contrary, most auto insurance policies cover you when you are operating a bicycle. I had to deal with this when I was hit a few years ago, if you don't have auto insurance there are other policies available to cover you as a non-driver.
--
Brandon Reed
bcr123@comcast.net
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Chris Alling
Seems like this would work if both parties are represented by insurance companies like in an auto accident. I would suspect that most of us do not have an insurance company that would take up this investigation if an accident were to happen while we are riding.
From: plewse@hotmail.com
To: shane.young@oregonvelo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 20:47:31 +0000
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
Additional note:
Insurance companies can investigate even if there was not an officer or citation. This sometimes results in claims being made between companies and resulting settlements being paid (maybe good/bad depending on your side). Often one insurance opts not to fight the claim and this results in increased rates regardless of fault.
> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:02:11 +0000
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> From: shane.young@oregonvelo.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
>
> Oregon is an at fault state. Meaning that in an accident the person that is 51% in the wrong is completely at fault, thus their insurance company must pay. If no citation is written for an accident, insurance companies will claim that no one was at fault and therefore they don't have to pay. So the police not issuing a ticket for accidents that have injuries and or damage are side stepping their mole hill and creating a mountain of work for the injured (wronged) party. People will often admit fault at the scene but give them a day or two to think about it and they have plenty of time to create some lie.
>
> Being able to issue citations as a bicyclist, driver, or pedestrian is a good thing. For some people it is the only way they will be able to collect for damages they have incurred due to someone else?s wrong.
>
> If my facts are messed up here, please correct me if I am wrong. These are based off the information I have gotten from insurance companies and police officers when dealing with the aftermath of accidents.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ike Kendrick trww@embarqmail.com
> To: david baker dirtsurf@ykwc.net, obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: 11/8/07 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
>
> > I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> > -ike
> >
> >
> >
> > david baker wrote:
> > > That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> > > cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> > > it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> > > especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
> > >
> > >
> > >> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Lets change these results!
> > >> -ike
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> OBRA mailing list
> > >> obra@list.obra.org
> > >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
>
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today!
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You! Get 'em!
Seems like this would work if both parties are represented by insurance companies like in an auto accident. I would suspect that most of us do not have an insurance company that would take up this investigation if an accident were to happen while we are riding.
From: plewse@hotmail.comTo: shane.young@oregonvelo.com; obra@list.obra.orgDate: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 20:47:31 +0000Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
Additional note: Insurance companies can investigate even if there was not an officer or citation. This sometimes results in claims being made between companies and resulting settlements being paid (maybe good/bad depending on your side). Often one insurance opts not to fight the claim and this results in increased rates regardless of fault.
> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:02:11 +0000> To: obra@list.obra.org> From: shane.young@oregonvelo.com> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote> > Oregon is an at fault state. Meaning that in an accident the person that is 51% in the wrong is completely at fault, thus their insurance company must pay. If no citation is written for an accident, insurance companies will claim that no one was at fault and therefore they don't have to pay. So the police not issuing a ticket for accidents that have injuries and or damage are side stepping their mole hill and creating a mountain of work for the injured (wronged) party. People will often admit fault at the scene but give them a day or two to think about it and they have plenty of time to create some lie.> > Being able to issue citations as a bicyclist, driver, or pedestrian is a good thing. For some people it is the only way they will be able to collect for damages they have incurred due to someone elses wrong.> > If my facts are messed up here, please correct me if I am wrong. These are based off the information I have gotten from insurance companies and police officers when dealing with the aftermath of accidents. > > > ----- Original Message -----> From: Ike Kendrick trww@embarqmail.com> To: david baker dirtsurf@ykwc.net, obra@list.obra.org> Sent: 11/8/07 12:25 PM> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote> > > I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.> > -ike> > > > > > > > david baker wrote:> > > That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to > > > cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so > > > it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next, > > > especially if we have citizens writing tickets.> > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick" > > > To: > > > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote> > >> > >> > >> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html > > >>> > >>> > >> Lets change these results!> > >> -ike> > >> _______________________________________________> > >> OBRA mailing list> > >> obra@list.obra.org> > >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > > > >Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Café. Stop by today!
_________________________________________________________________
Peek-a-boo FREE Tricks & Treats for You!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Additional note:
Insurance companies can investigate even if there was not an officer or citation. This sometimes results in claims being made between companies and resulting settlements being paid (maybe good/bad depending on your side). Often one insurance opts not to fight the claim and this results in increased rates regardless of fault.
Oregon is an at fault state. Meaning that in an accident the person that is 51% in the wrong is completely at fault, thus their insurance company must pay. If no citation is written for an accident, insurance companies will claim that no one was at fault and therefore they don't have to pay. So the police not issuing a ticket for accidents that have injuries and or damage are side stepping their mole hill and creating a mountain of work for the injured (wronged) party. People will often admit fault at the scene but give them a day or two to think about it and they have plenty of time to create some lie.
Being able to issue citations as a bicyclist, driver, or pedestrian is a good thing. For some people it is the only way they will be able to collect for damages they have incurred due to someone else?s wrong.
If my facts are messed up here, please correct me if I am wrong. These are based off the information I have gotten from insurance companies and police officers when dealing with the aftermath of accidents.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ike Kendrick trww@embarqmail.com
To: david baker dirtsurf@ykwc.net, obra@list.obra.org
Sent: 11/8/07 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> -ike
>
>
>
> david baker wrote:
> > That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> > cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> > it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> > especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
> >
> >
> >> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html
> >>
> >>
> >> Lets change these results!
> >> -ike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
That report they ran on the 11:00 PM news the other night was completely
imbalanced and biased.
For instance, they started the report laying the ground work of the two
recent fatal collisions of Tracy and Brett and then went directly into
how cyclists fail to stop of some stop signs. The problem with that part
of their report was that cyclists failing to stop at stop signs had
nothing to do with those fatalities.
Additionally, they let their camera run at a stop sign in Ladd's
Addition (I think it was) and it showed ~33 cyclists runing the stop
sign and about that many bikes coming through. They also said that
"Some" cars didn't stop at that stop sign. But, if they really wanted to
present a balanced story, they would have counted the number of both
bikes and cars coming through and the percentage of each that didn't
stop at that stop sign, which, again, had nothing to do with the two
recent fatalities.
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Kristin
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:50 AM
To: Jonathan Maus; OBRA list list
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] vote
I wish KGW would get some new writers. Every night their teasers for the
11pm news are so unbelievably inflaming... "Bike VS Car!!! The ultimate
throw down!"
Great idea, let's make the general public believe that all cyclists are
out to break the law and annoy drivers and all motorists are out to get
cyclists. Thanks a lot, that really helps.
kristin
On Nov 8, 2007 9:38 AM, Jonathan Maus wrote:
> Just FYI,
>
> KGW has completely misrepresented this issue. It has nothing to do
> with "cyclists writing tickets" or vigilantism. Please don't be
> fooled by KGW's need to whip up the "cars vs. bikes" war/frenzy at
every opportunity.
>
> The issue is really about citizens having the right to bring their own
> case to a judge, present their argument, and then let the court decide
> who is right. In my bike collisions there is either no investigation
> performed or the the investigation may not be completed correctly or
> to the satisfaction of all parties involved. When that happens,
> there's a law on the books that gives citizens the right to require
> the officer to appear in court and have a fair trial.
>
> This process has been used effectively by several local cyclists in
> recent years.
>
> If you're interested, I've covered this at length on BikePortland.org
> in the
> past:
>
> --Here's the story of a local cyclist who went through the process and
> succeeded - http://tinyurl.com/2jwpay --Here's a full account of the
> process - http://tinyurl.com/36wuf3 --More background on the process -
> http://tinyurl.com/3aqosu
>
> It's really not just "cyclists writing tickets".
>
> if anyone has questions about this I'm happy to try and answer them.
>
> --Jonathan
> _____________________
> Jonathan Maus
> http://www.BikePortland.org
> News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
> jonathan@bikeportland.org
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Ike Kendrick wrote:
>
> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> -ike
>
>
>
> david baker wrote:
> That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
>
>
>
> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citation
> s.1ede0dde1.html
>
>
> Lets change these results!
> -ike
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
--
__________________
www.runbikeswim.net
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
I wish KGW would get some new writers. Every night their teasers for
the 11pm news are so unbelievably inflaming... "Bike VS Car!!! The
ultimate throw down!"
Great idea, let's make the general public believe that all cyclists
are out to break the law and annoy drivers and all motorists are out
to get cyclists. Thanks a lot, that really helps.
kristin
On Nov 8, 2007 9:38 AM, Jonathan Maus wrote:
> Just FYI,
>
> KGW has completely misrepresented this issue. It has nothing to do with
> "cyclists writing tickets" or vigilantism. Please don't be fooled by KGW's
> need to whip up the "cars vs. bikes" war/frenzy at every opportunity.
>
> The issue is really about citizens having the right to bring their own case
> to a judge, present their argument, and then let the court decide who is
> right. In my bike collisions there is either no investigation performed or
> the the investigation may not be completed correctly or to the satisfaction
> of all parties involved. When that happens, there's a law on the books that
> gives citizens the right to require the officer to appear in court and have
> a fair trial.
>
> This process has been used effectively by several local cyclists in recent
> years.
>
> If you're interested, I've covered this at length on BikePortland.org in the
> past:
>
> --Here's the story of a local cyclist who went through the process and
> succeeded - http://tinyurl.com/2jwpay
> --Here's a full account of the process - http://tinyurl.com/36wuf3
> --More background on the process - http://tinyurl.com/3aqosu
>
> It's really not just "cyclists writing tickets".
>
> if anyone has questions about this I'm happy to try and answer them.
>
> --Jonathan
> _____________________
> Jonathan Maus
> http://www.BikePortland.org
> News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
> jonathan@bikeportland.org
>
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Ike Kendrick wrote:
>
> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> -ike
>
>
>
> david baker wrote:
> That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
>
>
>
> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html
>
>
> Lets change these results!
> -ike
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
--
__________________
www.runbikeswim.net
Just FYI,
KGW has completely misrepresented this issue. It has nothing to do
with "cyclists writing tickets" or vigilantism. Please don't be
fooled by KGW's need to whip up the "cars vs. bikes" war/frenzy at
every opportunity.
The issue is really about citizens having the right to bring their
own case to a judge, present their argument, and then let the court
decide who is right. In my bike collisions there is either no
investigation performed or the the investigation may not be completed
correctly or to the satisfaction of all parties involved. When that
happens, there's a law on the books that gives citizens the right to
require the officer to appear in court and have a fair trial.
This process has been used effectively by several local cyclists in
recent years.
If you're interested, I've covered this at length on BikePortland.org
in the past:
--Here's the story of a local cyclist who went through the process
and succeeded - http://tinyurl.com/2jwpay
--Here's a full account of the process - http://tinyurl.com/36wuf3
--More background on the process - http://tinyurl.com/3aqosu
It's really not just "cyclists writing tickets".
if anyone has questions about this I'm happy to try and answer them.
--Jonathan
_____________________
Jonathan Maus
http://www.BikePortland.org
News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
jonathan@bikeportland.org
On Nov 8, 2007, at 9:25 AM, Ike Kendrick wrote:
> I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
> -ike
>
>
>
> david baker wrote:
>> That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
>> cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
>> it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
>> especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
>>
>> To:
>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
>>
>>
>>> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/
>>> kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Lets change these results!
>>> -ike
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
I didn't think of that, yeah let's just roll over and get run over.
-ike
david baker wrote:
> That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
> cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so
> it would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next,
> especially if we have citizens writing tickets.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ike Kendrick"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
>
>
>> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html
>>
>>
>> Lets change these results!
>> -ike
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
>
That could backfire. Imagine how many tickets drivers could write to
cyclists. Fortunately we don't have plates and registration, yet, so it
would be hard to identify the offender. That will be next, especially if we
have citizens writing tickets.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ike Kendrick"
To:
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 8:12 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] vote
> http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html
>
> Lets change these results!
> -ike
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
http://www.kgw.com/news-local/stories/kgw_110807_news_cyclist_citations.1ede0dde1.html
Lets change these results!
-ike
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