Peter Gierga

Hi, I'm sorry for the confusion. My letter is and was a mass mailing, and a

genral direction that seems to work quite well for me. And further more is

no way directed at Norman Babcock (He is a friend of the family by the way)

or any other specific individual. I'll remember to delete other attached

addresses next time. And your right. If someone flung a beer bottle at me I

would beat the crap out of them.

                   All the best, Peter





 From: "Mike Murray" <mmur-@teleport.com>

Reply-To: <mmur-@teleport.com>

To: <aero-@hotmail.com>, <norma-@aol.com>, <ma-@sansoucie.com>,      

   <ob-@topica.com>

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial

Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 19:43:40 -0700



Peter,



You would be hard pressed to find someone that "smiles a lot" any more than

Norm. If you haven't run into the problems that people have been

describing

then you need to get out a bit more. It is bit hard to fend off the beer

can aimed at the back of your head with a smile. Please don't ascribe my

experiences to over training, there is not much data to support that

proposition.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Peter Gierga [mailto:aero-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 2:41 AM

To: norma-@aol.com; ma-@sansoucie.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial





============================================================

Explore the jungle in your backyard -- FREE! eNature has

bird sounds, Animal Finder, Field Guides, experts, activities

and more for a suburban safari you?ll never forget.

http://click.topica.com/caaaddWaVxiDpaVzo9Ia/eNature

============================================================



Hi after reading lots of interesting e-mail on the evil people. Now let me

get this straight they work in a store? Tourist Cyclists creating problems

(there's a winner) Does anyone have any idea at all how ridiculous this

sounds? Geezeus. Give me a break! Quit over training Buddy you'll feel

better.

    I find this all very interesting because I never seem to have these

problems. I believe that you get what you expect. Very simple strategy

smile a lot you'll form alliances with people. The smile opens the door to

success try it and you will see. People will wonder what you are up to.

                 All the the Best, Peter





 From: norma-@aol.com

Reply-To: norma-@aol.com

To: ma-@sansoucie.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial

Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:56:46 EDT



============================================================

Join memolink.com and get FREE gift certificates to

Wal*Mart, Target, Best Buy, Olive Garden and more!

http://click.topica.com/caaac5RaVxiDpaVzo30a/Memolink

============================================================



I have tried to stay out of this frenzy of E-mail, but in defense of

cyclists, (some can be total jerks) most just slow down traffic either

racing

or training. I work in the police department and do a great deal of

traffic

 direction due to stalled vehicles, wrecks etc. Also, I have worked with

public works crews with mowing operations, repairing streets, etc., and

see

 the worst drivers during stressful situations.



In policing we are accused of ruining people's day for closing a lane on

the

freeway (when the wrecked car ahead of them had a dead person sitting

inside

that person was really having a bad day), we are flipped off, accused of

creating a hazard by diverting traffic, and generally insulted because we

slow people down on the highway. In traffic stops, police routinely face

verbal abuse. In the public works trade flaggers are orally assaulted,

they

cannot understand the driver's plight, and are a total pain in the ass.



In conclusion, cyclists should always be polite, but will also be treated

the

same as police and anyone else who slows down someone on the road.



Norman Babcock



======================== SAVE NOW! =========================

Get more magazines for less money by subscribing through

Topica. Click now!

http://click.topica.com/caaac7GaVxiDpaVzo30f/subscribe

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



============================================================

Explore the jungle in your backyard -- FREE! eNature has

bird sounds, Animal Finder, Field Guides, experts, activities

and more for a suburban safari you?ll never forget.

http://click.topica.com/caaac1MaVxiDpaVzo9If/eNature

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

mmur-@teleport.com

Peter,



You would be hard pressed to find someone that "smiles a lot" any more than

Norm. If you haven't run into the problems that people have been describing

then you need to get out a bit more. It is bit hard to fend off the beer

can aimed at the back of your head with a smile. Please don't ascribe my

experiences to over training, there is not much data to support that

proposition.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Peter Gierga [mailto:aero-@hotmail.com]

Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 2:41 AM

To: norma-@aol.com; ma-@sansoucie.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial





============================================================

Explore the jungle in your backyard -- FREE! eNature has

bird sounds, Animal Finder, Field Guides, experts, activities

and more for a suburban safari you?ll never forget.

http://click.topica.com/caaaddWaVxiDpaVzo9Ia/eNature

============================================================



Hi after reading lots of interesting e-mail on the evil people. Now let me

get this straight they work in a store? Tourist Cyclists creating problems

(there's a winner) Does anyone have any idea at all how ridiculous this

sounds? Geezeus. Give me a break! Quit over training Buddy you'll feel

better.

   I find this all very interesting because I never seem to have these

problems. I believe that you get what you expect. Very simple strategy

smile a lot you'll form alliances with people. The smile opens the door to

success try it and you will see. People will wonder what you are up to.

                All the the Best, Peter





 From: norma-@aol.com

Reply-To: norma-@aol.com

To: ma-@sansoucie.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial

Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:56:46 EDT



============================================================

Join memolink.com and get FREE gift certificates to

Wal*Mart, Target, Best Buy, Olive Garden and more!

http://click.topica.com/caaac5RaVxiDpaVzo30a/Memolink

============================================================



I have tried to stay out of this frenzy of E-mail, but in defense of

cyclists, (some can be total jerks) most just slow down traffic either

racing

or training. I work in the police department and do a great deal of traffic

direction due to stalled vehicles, wrecks etc. Also, I have worked with

public works crews with mowing operations, repairing streets, etc., and see

the worst drivers during stressful situations.



In policing we are accused of ruining people's day for closing a lane on

the

freeway (when the wrecked car ahead of them had a dead person sitting

inside

that person was really having a bad day), we are flipped off, accused of

creating a hazard by diverting traffic, and generally insulted because we

slow people down on the highway. In traffic stops, police routinely face

verbal abuse. In the public works trade flaggers are orally assaulted,

they

cannot understand the driver's plight, and are a total pain in the ass.



In conclusion, cyclists should always be polite, but will also be treated

the

same as police and anyone else who slows down someone on the road.



Norman Babcock



======================== SAVE NOW! =========================

Get more magazines for less money by subscribing through

Topica. Click now!

http://click.topica.com/caaac7GaVxiDpaVzo30f/subscribe

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp



============================================================

Explore the jungle in your backyard -- FREE! eNature has

bird sounds, Animal Finder, Field Guides, experts, activities

and more for a suburban safari you?ll never forget.

http://click.topica.com/caaac1MaVxiDpaVzo9If/eNature

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Peter Gierga

Hi after reading lots of interesting e-mail on the evil people. Now let me

get this straight they work in a store? Tourist Cyclists creating problems

(there's a winner) Does anyone have any idea at all how ridiculous this

sounds? Geezeus. Give me a break! Quit over training Buddy you'll feel

better.

   I find this all very interesting because I never seem to have these

problems. I believe that you get what you expect. Very simple strategy

smile a lot you'll form alliances with people. The smile opens the door to

success try it and you will see. People will wonder what you are up to.

                All the the Best, Peter





 From: norma-@aol.com

Reply-To: norma-@aol.com

To: ma-@sansoucie.com, ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial

Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2001 09:56:46 EDT



============================================================

Join memolink.com and get FREE gift certificates to

Wal*Mart, Target, Best Buy, Olive Garden and more!

http://click.topica.com/caaac5RaVxiDpaVzo30a/Memolink

============================================================



I have tried to stay out of this frenzy of E-mail, but in defense of

cyclists, (some can be total jerks) most just slow down traffic either

racing

or training. I work in the police department and do a great deal of traffic

direction due to stalled vehicles, wrecks etc. Also, I have worked with

public works crews with mowing operations, repairing streets, etc., and see

the worst drivers during stressful situations.



In policing we are accused of ruining people's day for closing a lane on

the

freeway (when the wrecked car ahead of them had a dead person sitting

inside

that person was really having a bad day), we are flipped off, accused of

creating a hazard by diverting traffic, and generally insulted because we

slow people down on the highway. In traffic stops, police routinely face

verbal abuse. In the public works trade flaggers are orally assaulted,

they

cannot understand the driver's plight, and are a total pain in the ass.



In conclusion, cyclists should always be polite, but will also be treated

the

same as police and anyone else who slows down someone on the road.



Norman Babcock



======================== SAVE NOW! =========================

Get more magazines for less money by subscribing through

Topica. Click now!

http://click.topica.com/caaac7GaVxiDpaVzo30f/subscribe

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Scott Sloat

<html>



<div style='background-color:'><DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>

<DIV>I think the way to generate support for this race it to turn the race into a fundraiser.  I believe the school on the right is a elementary or middle school.  They must have some type of after- school or breakfast program that could use additional funds/resources.  Very much like Columbia Plateau.  I would imagine that if someone approached the school and explained that they would receive some of the proceeds, you would be able to generate support from within the community in a couple of ways.  </DIV>

<DIV>1.  Their community would benefit financially.    We could also find out what the school needs in the form of school supplies.  Bring school supplies, get a reduced entry fee.  Very much like donating food at PIR.  Or as part of the Entry Fee, you could make an additional donation of a $1 to the school.  </DIV>

<DIV>2.  Get the young juniors involved from the community.  Have a real short race for the young kids.    Let the parents see the excitement on the kids faces.  Then let the kid nag the parents until the race happens again the following year.      </DIV>

<DIV>3.  You may be able to get some volunteers from the school.  </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Then if the vocal minority pipes up, kindly explain that the intent of this race it to benefit the school.  </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Scott Sloat</DIV>

<DIV>Team Oregon</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></div><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href='http://go.msn.com/bql/hmtag_itl_EN.asp'>http://explorer.msn.com</a><br>







</html>

mmur-@teleport.com

This is similar to the situation with the store by the bridge on Sauvie's

Island which has reportedly been very negative to cyclists despite the

potential revenue source that they might represent in that location.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: DaViD AuKeR [mailto:Dav-@Hevanet.Com]

Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 12:18 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial





============================================================

Join memolink.com and get FREE gift certificates to

Wal*Mart, Target, Best Buy, Olive Garden and more!

http://click.topica.com/caaac5RaVxiDpaVzo9Ia/Memolink

============================================================



Splinter said:



 Instead of boycotting Corbett businesses, I suggest making a point of

stopping and getting something to eat or drink at a local store.

I agree as to that being a potential help, but PR can be unpleasant...



In my experience, that store on the east end of Corbett just isn't very

friendly to cyclists. I think they're tired of us needing water (free),

even when we buy something ($). I would venture to guess that reception

there would be a world different if you pulled up in a 4-wheel drive

unit with three gas tanks, even if you weren't going to "fill 'er up."



This is too bad, as there must be hordes of cyclists that pass there

each day during good weather, a potential source of business.



I don't like to be negative, so if anyone can counter what I've said

about this store, post it! (Maybe they like your Colnago better than my

Giant?)



((What other businesses are in the area that we could court?))



David



============================================================

Feeling blue about the state of your email inbox? Then

you'll be tickled pink to hear about our free email

organization solution. Learn more at

http://click.topica.com/caaabByaVxiDpaVzo9If/register

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

DaViD AuKeR

Splinter said:



 Instead of boycotting Corbett businesses, I suggest making a point of

stopping and getting something to eat or drink at a local store.

I agree as to that being a potential help, but PR can be unpleasant...



In my experience, that store on the east end of Corbett just isn't very

friendly to cyclists. I think they're tired of us needing water (free),

even when we buy something ($). I would venture to guess that reception

there would be a world different if you pulled up in a 4-wheel drive

unit with three gas tanks, even if you weren't going to "fill 'er up."



This is too bad, as there must be hordes of cyclists that pass there

each day during good weather, a potential source of business.



I don't like to be negative, so if anyone can counter what I've said

about this store, post it! (Maybe they like your Colnago better than my

Giant?)



((What other businesses are in the area that we could court?))



David

Jerry Powell

Jonathan, while your advice might be specifically correct with

respect to some jurisdictions, I'd suggest that even there you (or

any other promoter) is running a high risk of finding his/her permit

to use the streets evaporate. When a race organizer sinks time and

money into an event, it makes absolutely no sense to hamstring

himself, and risk community ill-will by ignoring, or worse, by

baiting a community organization.



There are some other jurisdictions (Portland being one of them) where

a negative response from a neighborhood organization will cancel a

street use permit.



Jerry Powell





At 3:30 PM -0700 9/5/01, Jonathan Puskas wrote:



 

Here's a "heads-up" for future promoters...



You don't need "permission" from the neighborhood

associations. All you are required to do to get a

permit from the County is "ensure the neighborhood

asociation is notified."



I faced similar concerns with Mt. Tabor, but the City

understands that many people are simply against

"changing the neighborhood--albeit for a day" and they

aren't usually willing to hold up races because a few

community members hold a negative viewpoint.



Seriously, it's OK to bully our way (with a smile and

a polite wave) onto the streets.



Best regards,

Jonathan C. Puskas



I suggest that all available OBRA members make a

"personal decision" that they'd like to ride through

Corbett to Larch Mountain on 22 September...you don't

need a permit to ride...yet!

--- Chris Myers <myer-@ohsu.edu> wrote:

 


============================================================

 

While creating the Bull Run Road Race, we also

tried to start our race from Corbett High School.

Which is in Multnomah County. We were told that the

county had two problem areas with concerns to bike

riding and racing. One was the Corbett area and the

other was Sauvie Island. We too were told that we

must get permission from the neighborhood

association. When I contacted the head of the

association I was told that not only do they not

like/appreciate bike riders on "their" roads but

they were in the process of starting a petition to

make it illigel to ride your bike in Corbett without

it being registered "just like a car or taxi." The

closed minded nature of the neighborhood assoication

was really scary.



Chris Myers

GS Camerati

gscamerati.org

--

splin-@aol.com

--part1_ce.19e202ce.28c90104_boundary

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit





I am in favor of a variation on Mike's suggestion of showing how many people

ride bikes.



If all we do is ride through Corbett, the only people who are affected are

the drivers.



Instead of boycotting Corbett businesses, I suggest making a point of

stopping and getting something to eat or drink at a local store. This not

only makes the point that there are a lot of us, it also gives the residents

a chance to see that we are real people, not two headed monsters, who can be

friendly. Making human faces (and customers) out anonymous cyclists can do a

lot to create tolerance, if not affinity.



Splinter





--part1_ce.19e202ce.28c90104_boundary

Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



<HTML>



<FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>

<BR>I am in favor of a variation on Mike's suggestion of showing how many people

<BR>ride bikes.

<BR>

<BR>If all we do is ride through Corbett, the only people who are affected are

<BR>the drivers.

<BR>

<BR>Instead of boycotting Corbett businesses, I suggest making a point of

<BR>stopping and getting something to eat or drink at a local store. This not

<BR>only makes the point that there are a lot of us, it also gives the residents

<BR>a chance to see that we are real people, not two headed monsters, who can be

<BR>friendly. Making human faces (and customers) out anonymous cyclists can do a

<BR>lot to create tolerance, if not affinity.

<BR>

<BR>Splinter</FONT>







</HTML>



--part1_ce.19e202ce.28c90104_boundary--

norma-@aol.com

--part1_f9.f148bc4.28c8da9e_boundary

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



I have tried to stay out of this frenzy of E-mail, but in defense of

cyclists, (some can be total jerks) most just slow down traffic either racing

or training. I work in the police department and do a great deal of traffic

direction due to stalled vehicles, wrecks etc. Also, I have worked with

public works crews with mowing operations, repairing streets, etc., and see

the worst drivers during stressful situations.



In policing we are accused of ruining people's day for closing a lane on the

freeway (when the wrecked car ahead of them had a dead person sitting inside

that person was really having a bad day), we are flipped off, accused of

creating a hazard by diverting traffic, and generally insulted because we

slow people down on the highway. In traffic stops, police routinely face

verbal abuse. In the public works trade flaggers are orally assaulted, they

cannot understand the driver's plight, and are a total pain in the ass.



In conclusion, cyclists should always be polite, but will also be treated the

same as police and anyone else who slows down someone on the road.



Norman Babcock





--part1_f9.f148bc4.28c8da9e_boundary

Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">



<FONT SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">I have tried to stay out of this frenzy of E-mail, but in defense of

<BR>cyclists, (some can be total jerks) most just slow down traffic either racing

<BR>or training. I work in the police department and do a great deal of traffic

<BR>direction due to stalled vehicles, wrecks etc. Also, I have worked with

<BR>public works crews with mowing operations, repairing streets, etc., and see

<BR>the worst drivers during stressful situations.

<BR>

<BR>In policing we are accused of ruining people's day for closing a lane on the

<BR>freeway (when the wrecked car ahead of them had a dead person sitting inside

<BR>that person was really having a bad day), we are flipped off, accused of

<BR>creating a hazard by diverting traffic, and generally insulted because we

<BR>slow people down on the highway.  In traffic stops, police routinely face

<BR>verbal abuse.  In the public works trade flaggers are orally assaulted, they

<BR>cannot understand the driver's plight, and are a total pain in the ass.

<BR>

<BR>In conclusion, cyclists should always be polite, but will also be treated the

<BR>same as police and anyone else who slows down someone on the road.

<BR>

<BR>Norman Babcock</FONT>







</HTML>



--part1_f9.f148bc4.28c8da9e_boundary--

Marc San Soucie

Mike Murray wrote:



 The problem of negative attitudes towards cyclists is something that we will

never solve simply by convincing all cyclists to be on their best behavior.

Even if there was not a single cyclist that ever held up traffic, flipped

off a car, etc. many people will still consider cyclists a burden for them

while they are driving their cars on the road. The solution to the problem

is two fold:

 - get more people out on bikes more often

- publicize cycling events better so that people know that the one "spandex

clad cyclist" in front of them is part of a much bigger thing.

True, but don't give up on the good behavior part. Many (or even most)

elected officials and government staff workers would find it much easier

to be supportive of bicycling if they didn't have to listen to the squawking

of peeved motorists and citizens griping about bicyclists who flout the

rules of the road. Who cares if motorists do it also - it's a political

battle, not an ethical or moral one.



    Marc San Soucie

Jerry Powell

Chris, and any others who run into "neighborhood" opposition in

engineering an event...



After some years of putting on races, and having some experience from

the "public side" as well... There are some "best practices" that it

helps to observe. One, already suggested, is to start early. Contact

them when you're in the planning stage and give them some time to get

used to the idea before you ask for a particular date. The next is to

line up local support, preferably a prominent local sponsor... or

even better yet, align with an event that the community already

supports. It's pretty easy to dismiss a group like the one Jason

talked to as a bunch of old fuddyduddies, but they really are the

hosts, and it pays to play the game on their rules. Most often, we

can get them behind us if we do the preparation part well.



Jerry Powell





At 1:35 PM -0700 9/5/01, Chris Myers wrote:

 

While creating the Bull Run Road Race, we also tried to start our

race from Corbett High School. Which is in Multnomah County. We

were told that the county had two problem areas with concerns to

bike riding and racing. One was the Corbett area and the other was

Sauvie Island. We too were told that we must get permission from

the neighborhood association. When I contacted the head of the

association I was told that not only do they not like/appreciate

bike riders on "their" roads but they were in the process of

starting a petition to make it illigel to ride your bike in Corbett

without it being registered "just like a car or taxi." The closed

minded nature of the neighborhood assoication was really scary.



Chris Myers

GS Camerati

gscamerati.org

--

Jonathan Puskas

I mis-spoke (wrote)...



I stated the City's requirements for a permit. I

cannot comment on the county.



I still think we should all enjoy one final season

ride to Larch Mountain...



Best regards,

Jonathan C. Puskas



--- Jonathan Puskas <impu-@yahoo.com> wrote:

 
============================================================

 SAVE 10% on your first online order at Fingerhut.com

(introductory offer good on almost every product on

the

site; click here for full details).

http://click.topica.com/caaadc6aVxiDpaVE62Ba/FingerHut

 
============================================================

 

Here's a "heads-up" for future promoters...



You don't need "permission" from the neighborhood

associations. All you are required to do to get a

permit from the County is "ensure the neighborhood

asociation is notified."



I faced similar concerns with Mt. Tabor, but the

City

understands that many people are simply against

"changing the neighborhood--albeit for a day" and

they

aren't usually willing to hold up races because a

few

community members hold a negative viewpoint.



Seriously, it's OK to bully our way (with a smile

and

a polite wave) onto the streets.



Best regards,

Jonathan C. Puskas



I suggest that all available OBRA members make a

"personal decision" that they'd like to ride through

Corbett to Larch Mountain on 22 September...you

don't

need a permit to ride...yet!

--- Chris Myers <myer-@ohsu.edu> wrote:

 

============================================================

  Should You Check Your Credit Report? Of course! We

all check

our credit card statements for inaccuracies and we

should do

the same for our credit history. Click here now to

check

yours FOR FREE at ConsumerInfo.Com!

http://click.topica.com/caaadbyaVxiDpaVE62Ba/ConsumerInfo

  

============================================================

  

While creating the Bull Run Road Race, we also

tried to start our race from Corbett High School.

Which is in Multnomah County. We were told that

the

 county had two problem areas with concerns to bike

riding and racing. One was the Corbett area and

the

 other was Sauvie Island. We too were told that we

must get permission from the neighborhood

association. When I contacted the head of the

association I was told that not only do they not

like/appreciate bike riders on "their" roads but

they were in the process of starting a petition to

make it illigel to ride your bike in Corbett

without

 it being registered "just like a car or taxi."

The

 closed minded nature of the neighborhood

assoication

 was really scary.



Chris Myers

GS Camerati

gscamerati.org



======================= GREAT DEALS!

=======================

Get super discounts and cool savings now.

Check out TopOffers!

http://click.topica.com/caaac7HaVxiDpaVE62Bf/subscribe

  

============================================================

  

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

=====

Jonathan C. Puskas

159 Fifth Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

impu-@yahoo.com



"If you're gonna charge...charge hard!"



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant

messaging with Yahoo! Messenger

http://im.yahoo.com

============================================================

 Feeling blue about the state of your email inbox?

Then

you'll be tickled pink to hear about our free email

organization solution. Learn more at

http://click.topica.com/caaabByaVxiDpaVE62Bf/register

 
============================================================

 

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

=====

Jonathan C. Puskas

159 Fifth Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

impu-@yahoo.com



"If you're gonna charge...charge hard!"



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger

http://im.yahoo.com

Jonathan Puskas

Here's a "heads-up" for future promoters...



You don't need "permission" from the neighborhood

associations. All you are required to do to get a

permit from the County is "ensure the neighborhood

asociation is notified."



I faced similar concerns with Mt. Tabor, but the City

understands that many people are simply against

"changing the neighborhood--albeit for a day" and they

aren't usually willing to hold up races because a few

community members hold a negative viewpoint.



Seriously, it's OK to bully our way (with a smile and

a polite wave) onto the streets.



Best regards,

Jonathan C. Puskas



I suggest that all available OBRA members make a

"personal decision" that they'd like to ride through

Corbett to Larch Mountain on 22 September...you don't

need a permit to ride...yet!

--- Chris Myers <myer-@ohsu.edu> wrote:

 
============================================================

 Should You Check Your Credit Report? Of course! We

all check

our credit card statements for inaccuracies and we

should do

the same for our credit history. Click here now to

check

yours FOR FREE at ConsumerInfo.Com!

http://click.topica.com/caaadbyaVxiDpaVE62Ba/ConsumerInfo

 
============================================================

 

While creating the Bull Run Road Race, we also

tried to start our race from Corbett High School.

Which is in Multnomah County. We were told that the

county had two problem areas with concerns to bike

riding and racing. One was the Corbett area and the

other was Sauvie Island. We too were told that we

must get permission from the neighborhood

association. When I contacted the head of the

association I was told that not only do they not

like/appreciate bike riders on "their" roads but

they were in the process of starting a petition to

make it illigel to ride your bike in Corbett without

it being registered "just like a car or taxi." The

closed minded nature of the neighborhood assoication

was really scary.



Chris Myers

GS Camerati

gscamerati.org



======================= GREAT DEALS!

=======================

Get super discounts and cool savings now.

Check out TopOffers!

http://click.topica.com/caaac7HaVxiDpaVE62Bf/subscribe

 
============================================================

 

To respond to the whole group send to

ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to

ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

=====

Jonathan C. Puskas

159 Fifth Street

Lake Oswego, OR 97034

impu-@yahoo.com



"If you're gonna charge...charge hard!"



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger

http://im.yahoo.com

mmur-@teleport.com

The point of my note was that not acting like a jerk is not adequate. It

is, of course, not a good idea to act like a jerk but even if we are all on

our best behavior we will still be viewed as "road pollution" by many people

as long as they think that there are just a few bike riders. The point is

that we need to let them know that there are lots of bike riders and we are

their customers, neighbors, etc. not just some obstruction in the road.

Bike riding is a BIG deal. Lots of people ride. Cyclists are not a

minority. Most people ride a bike occasionally. Even bike racing is big

compared to other sports. 1 in every 1,500 Oregon residents is a bike

racers. This is the perception that we need to spread.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Roger Joys [mailto:Roger-@lucy.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 13:14 PM

To: 'mmur-@teleport.com'

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial





Let me add one more point to Mike's "to-do"....



Remember the impression you leave with the general populous every time you

flip someone off in a car or otherwise, run a stop sign in front of a family

in a mini-van or whatever...



I was referred to by our companies UPS guy as "road pollution" when he saw

my bike. Of course, I changed our primary carrier to Fed-Ex the next day.

But the point is that there are a lot of us out there these days leaving a

bad taste in the mouth of people who can put the kibosh on great events like

Larch Mtn.



Remember .. perception is reality.



-r



-----Original Message-----

From: mmur-@teleport.com [mailto:mmur-@teleport.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:15 PM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial





============================================================

Should You Check Your Credit Report? Of course! We all check

our credit card statements for inaccuracies and we should do

the same for our credit history. Click here now to check

yours FOR FREE at ConsumerInfo.Com!

http://click.topica.com/caaadbwaVxiDpaVG0ZRa/ConsumerInfo

============================================================



It is interesting to note that the neighborhood association was bothered by

the idea of the event but had never noted that it had been held before. I

guess their concerns re: "spandex clad cyclist who ride in the middle of the

road and flip drivers off and hold up traffic for ten to twelve car lengths

behind them" where more theoretical than actual. It is also interesting to

note that they were bothered by something called "Moonlight Columbia

Classic" which is an event that never had a bike race, never contacted OBRA

about having a bike race and presumed never made any serious consideration

about having a bike race.



The problem of negative attitudes towards cyclists is something that we will

never solve simply by convincing all cyclists to be on their best behavior.

Even if there was not a single cyclist that ever held up traffic, flipped

off a car, etc. many people will still consider cyclists a burden for them

while they are driving their cars on the road. The solution to the problem

is two fold:



- get more people out on bikes more often

- publicize cycling events better so that people know that the one "spandex

clad cyclist" in front of them is part of a much bigger thing.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmur-@teleport.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 11:46 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial





============================================================

Explore the jungle in your backyard -- FREE! eNature has

bird sounds, Animal Finder, Field Guides, experts, activities

and more for a suburban safari you'll never forget.

http://click.topica.com/caaac38aVxiDpaVzo9Ia/eNature

============================================================





 From: Jason.P-@HorizonAir.com

To: cmur-@teleport.com

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:17:27 -0700

Subject: Larch Mtn time trial

Organization: Alaska Airlines

X-Gateway: NASTA Gate 2.0 for FirstClass(R)



Hello Candi



I am sorry to say this but the Larch Mtn time trial will not be

happening this year. I had all the permits ready to go (Even USCF) and

ran into a last minute snag. While researching information for the

permits I ran into a neighborhood Association that does not care for

"spandex clad cyclist who ride in the middle of the road and flip

drivers off and hold up traffic for ten to twelve car lengths behind

them". ODOT is reluctant to issue a permit without the blessing of this

neighborhood association as well as being less then sixty days from the

date of the race. Robyn attended a meeting of this neighborhood

association this morning and found people there who were not happy

towards cyclist and a few were willing to call both the county and ODOT

to try to keep us from holding the race. They were quite surprised to

find that this event had been run in years past and they had never been

contacted or included and this added to the level of frustration.



Talking with club president, Bill Fasano last night we agreed if the

meeting today went bad we would back off from trying to cram it down

their throats and work towards having the race next year with their

approval. They still have some animosity towards racers due to a event

called the "Moonlight Columbia Classic". In which they planned to run a

corresponding bicycle race this past year and went horribly wrong and

never did happen.



For next year the club would still like to hold this event and try to

hold it two weeks before the state hill climb championship preferably

on a Sunday morning.



Once again I am sorry to all the riders who wished to do this race. I

hope to have it next year and have it as better run event.



Jason Pfeifer

============================================================

Good, Better, BEST! What's better than a year's subscription

to Ladies' Home Journal? Only a FREE year's subscription!

Check out this great offer now!

http://click.topica.com/caaac1DaVxiDpaVzo9If/TopOffers

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com





============================================================

Enjoy your vacation more knowing that My Topica won't

overstuff your inbox! When you come back, your email will,

too. Refreshed. Relaxed. Ready to be read. Sign up for free

email R&R.

http://click.topica.com/caaabHTaVxiDpaVG0ZRf/register

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Tim Schauer

This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand

this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.



------_=_NextPart_001_01C1364B.45C9A6D8

Content-Type: text/plain;

charset="iso-8859-1"



Maybe we could all have our middle fingers removed. That would solve two

problems. They would instantly know who we are on sight (avoiding

registration hassles) and we could no longer flip off motorists....



-----Original Message-----

From: Chris Myers [mailto:myer-@ohsu.edu]

Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:35 PM

To: cmur-@teleport.com; ob-@topica.com

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial





============================================================

Should You Check Your Credit Report? Of course! We all check

our credit card statements for inaccuracies and we should do

the same for our credit history. Click here now to check

yours FOR FREE at ConsumerInfo.Com!

http://click.topica.com/caaadbyaVxiDpaVHWR7a/ConsumerInfo

============================================================



While creating the Bull Run Road Race, we also tried to start our race from

Corbett High School. Which is in Multnomah County. We were told that the

county had two problem areas with concerns to bike riding and racing. One

was the Corbett area and the other was Sauvie Island. We too were told that

we must get permission from the neighborhood association. When I contacted

the head of the association I was told that not only do they not

like/appreciate bike riders on "their" roads but they were in the process of

starting a petition to make it illigel to ride your bike in Corbett without

it being registered "just like a car or taxi." The closed minded nature of

the neighborhood assoication was really scary.



Chris Myers

GS Camerati

gscamerati.org



======================= GREAT DEALS! =======================

Get super discounts and cool savings now.

Check out TopOffers!

http://click.topica.com/caaac7HaVxiDpaVHWR7f/subscribe

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com











------_=_NextPart_001_01C1364B.45C9A6D8

Content-Type: text/html;

charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">

<HTML>

<HEAD>

<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="MS Exchange Server version 5.5.2650.12">

<TITLE>RE: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial</TITLE>

</HEAD>

<BODY>







<P><FONT SIZE=2>Maybe we could all have our middle fingers removed. That would solve two problems. They would instantly know who we are on sight (avoiding registration hassles) and we could no longer flip off motorists....</FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Chris Myers [<A HREF="mailto:myer-@ohsu.edu">mailto:myer-@ohsu.edu</A>]</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 1:35 PM</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: cmur-@teleport.com; ob-@topica.com</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial</FONT>

</P>

<BR>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>============================================================</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Should You Check Your Credit Report? Of course! We all check</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>our credit card statements for inaccuracies and we should do</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the same for our credit history. Click here now to check</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>yours FOR FREE at ConsumerInfo.Com!</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2><A HREF="http://click.topica.com/caaadbyaVxiDpaVHWR7a/ConsumerInfo" TARGET="_blank">http://click.topica.com/caaadbyaVxiDpaVHWR7a/ConsumerInfo</A></FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>============================================================</FONT>

</P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>While creating the Bull Run Road Race,  we also tried to start our race from Corbett High School.  Which is in Multnomah County.  We were told that the county had two problem areas with concerns to bike riding and racing.  One was the Corbett area and the other was Sauvie Island.  We too were told that we must get permission from the neighborhood association.  When I contacted the head of the association I was told that not only do they not like/appreciate bike riders on "their" roads but they were in the process of starting a petition to make it illigel to ride your bike in Corbett without it being registered "just like a car or taxi."  The closed minded nature of the neighborhood assoication was really scary.  </FONT></P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>Chris Myers</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>GS Camerati</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>gscamerati.org</FONT>

</P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>======================= GREAT DEALS! =======================</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Get super discounts and cool savings now.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Check out TopOffers!</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2><A HREF="http://click.topica.com/caaac7HaVxiDpaVHWR7f/subscribe" TARGET="_blank">http://click.topica.com/caaac7HaVxiDpaVHWR7f/subscribe</A></FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>============================================================</FONT>

</P>



<P><FONT SIZE=2>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com</FONT>

<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</FONT>

</P>



</P>

<BR>











</BODY>

</HTML>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C1364B.45C9A6D8--

Chris Myers

While creating the Bull Run Road Race, we also tried to start our race from Corbett High School. Which is in Multnomah County. We were told that the county had two problem areas with concerns to bike riding and racing. One was the Corbett area and the other was Sauvie Island. We too were told that we must get permission from the neighborhood association. When I contacted the head of the association I was told that not only do they not like/appreciate bike riders on "their" roads but they were in the process of starting a petition to make it illigel to ride your bike in Corbett without it being registered "just like a car or taxi." The closed minded nature of the neighborhood assoication was really scary.



Chris Myers

GS Camerati

gscamerati.org

mmur-@teleport.com

It is interesting to note that the neighborhood association was bothered by

the idea of the event but had never noted that it had been held before. I

guess their concerns re: "spandex clad cyclist who ride in the middle of the

road and flip drivers off and hold up traffic for ten to twelve car lengths

behind them" where more theoretical than actual. It is also interesting to

note that they were bothered by something called "Moonlight Columbia

Classic" which is an event that never had a bike race, never contacted OBRA

about having a bike race and presumed never made any serious consideration

about having a bike race.



The problem of negative attitudes towards cyclists is something that we will

never solve simply by convincing all cyclists to be on their best behavior.

Even if there was not a single cyclist that ever held up traffic, flipped

off a car, etc. many people will still consider cyclists a burden for them

while they are driving their cars on the road. The solution to the problem

is two fold:



- get more people out on bikes more often

- publicize cycling events better so that people know that the one "spandex

clad cyclist" in front of them is part of a much bigger thing.



Mike Murray



-----Original Message-----

From: Candi Murray [mailto:cmur-@teleport.com]

Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 11:46 AM

To: ob-@topica.com

Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Larch Mtn time trial





============================================================

Explore the jungle in your backyard -- FREE! eNature has

bird sounds, Animal Finder, Field Guides, experts, activities

and more for a suburban safari you?ll never forget.

http://click.topica.com/caaac38aVxiDpaVzo9Ia/eNature

============================================================





 From: Jason.P-@HorizonAir.com

To: cmur-@teleport.com

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:17:27 -0700

Subject: Larch Mtn time trial

Organization: Alaska Airlines

X-Gateway: NASTA Gate 2.0 for FirstClass(R)



Hello Candi



I am sorry to say this but the Larch Mtn time trial will not be

happening this year. I had all the permits ready to go (Even USCF) and

ran into a last minute snag. While researching information for the

permits I ran into a neighborhood Association that does not care for

"spandex clad cyclist who ride in the middle of the road and flip

drivers off and hold up traffic for ten to twelve car lengths behind

them". ODOT is reluctant to issue a permit without the blessing of this

neighborhood association as well as being less then sixty days from the

date of the race. Robyn attended a meeting of this neighborhood

association this morning and found people there who were not happy

towards cyclist and a few were willing to call both the county and ODOT

to try to keep us from holding the race. They were quite surprised to

find that this event had been run in years past and they had never been

contacted or included and this added to the level of frustration.



Talking with club president, Bill Fasano last night we agreed if the

meeting today went bad we would back off from trying to cram it down

their throats and work towards having the race next year with their

approval. They still have some animosity towards racers due to a event

called the "Moonlight Columbia Classic". In which they planned to run a

corresponding bicycle race this past year and went horribly wrong and

never did happen.



For next year the club would still like to hold this event and try to

hold it two weeks before the state hill climb championship preferably

on a Sunday morning.



Once again I am sorry to all the riders who wished to do this race. I

hope to have it next year and have it as better run event.



Jason Pfeifer

============================================================

Good, Better, BEST! What's better than a year's subscription

to Ladies' Home Journal? Only a FREE year's subscription!

Check out this great offer now!

http://click.topica.com/caaac1DaVxiDpaVzo9If/TopOffers

============================================================



To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.

To respond to the list manager send to ob-@teleport.com

To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com

Candi Murray

 From: Jason.P-@HorizonAir.com

To: cmur-@teleport.com

Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 11:17:27 -0700

Subject: Larch Mtn time trial

Organization: Alaska Airlines

X-Gateway: NASTA Gate 2.0 for FirstClass(R)



Hello Candi



I am sorry to say this but the Larch Mtn time trial will not be

happening this year. I had all the permits ready to go (Even USCF) and

ran into a last minute snag. While researching information for the

permits I ran into a neighborhood Association that does not care for

"spandex clad cyclist who ride in the middle of the road and flip

drivers off and hold up traffic for ten to twelve car lengths behind

them". ODOT is reluctant to issue a permit without the blessing of this

neighborhood association as well as being less then sixty days from the

date of the race. Robyn attended a meeting of this neighborhood

association this morning and found people there who were not happy

towards cyclist and a few were willing to call both the county and ODOT

to try to keep us from holding the race. They were quite surprised to

find that this event had been run in years past and they had never been

contacted or included and this added to the level of frustration.



Talking with club president, Bill Fasano last night we agreed if the

meeting today went bad we would back off from trying to cram it down

their throats and work towards having the race next year with their

approval. They still have some animosity towards racers due to a event

called the "Moonlight Columbia Classic". In which they planned to run a

corresponding bicycle race this past year and went horribly wrong and

never did happen.



For next year the club would still like to hold this event and try to

hold it two weeks before the state hill climb championship preferably

on a Sunday morning.



Once again I am sorry to all the riders who wished to do this race. I

hope to have it next year and have it as better run event.



Jason Pfeifer