Raggy23
Oakridge and other areas can't use any other trails
Then what we allowed.
Basically oakridge has no
Way to make a shorter course
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 26, 2008, at 5:18 PM, Erik Long wrote:
Who said anything about a 3-mile circuit? Short track is a separate discipline and it has its place. I'm saying that we should think about designing our region's XC courses a little more LIKE a 'Cross venue, but that doesn't mean going to that extreme.
Look at most World Cup XC events. They tend to plan their races for a 2 hour finish - possibly on a shorter course, but certainly longer than 3 miles. The point is that these races are planned in a way that allows the racers to be as fast as they can be and REALLY race.
"Spectator-friendly" doesn't have to mean a 3-mile loop x 10 laps. Anyone who's raced Cascade Chainbreaker has seen how a course can be made accessible to spectators. In the past, Marcel has managed to route that course through (or near) his staging area 4 or 5 times on a single 12-mile lap. He also uses terrain that favors all kinds of riding styles/strengths, which can put the strongest riders very close to each other at the finish (I'd also like to point out that few people, if any, are forced to hike on such courses).
THAT's smart XC course-building, but it certainly isn't short track, and it never should be.
From: luelling@comcast.net
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 00:29:32 +0000
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cancelled xc races and falling numbers
I agree, what you are describing is short track not cross-country. XC is an endurance event, and I don't think anyone wants to do laps on a 3 mile circuit for 2.5 hours.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "David Saltzberg"
> There is MTB Short Track in June and July that has become rather popular in
> the last few years in Portland. Kris Schamp has done a great job organizing
> and promoting it. I believe it responds to most of your points rather well
> and it's dry and hot but short.
>
>
>
> David Saltzberg
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Erik Long
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 3:01 PM
> To: Craig Austin; Steve Lacey; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] cancelled xc races and falling numbers
>
>
>
> Has anyone been to an XC race as a spectator? How bored were YOU? I mean,
> damn. I LOVE XC racing. I've been doing it my whole life, but we make it
> so freaking DULL. No wonder so few show up.
>
> And Cyclocross is booming . . . hm. Ever notice how short Cyclocross races
> are? They're an hour long, and everybody still suffers. However, at XC
> races, 3 to 4 hour finish times are all too common. XC racing is a
> time-trial effort (not unlike 'cross), and you really can't ride a fast TT
> pace for 3 hours, no matter how fit you are. Even a good pro rider is
> crawling across the finish line after 3 hours, and who wants to watch that
> at every race? Who actually enjoys watching wasted riders cross the finish
> line 5 minutes apart? YAWN.
>
> It gets old for racers, too, and the lack of attendance at summer races is
> an obvious indicator of that fact. It's called burnout. Maybe physical,
> maybe mental, but it IS burnout. It seems that too many of us are clinging
> to the idea that a mountianbike race has to be a friggin' survivalist
> scenario.
>
> You know what would be really cool? A regional off-road season that went
> all the way through summer, maybe a few more spectator-friendly courses.
> Race courses that are short enough to ride at full race pace might be a good
> idea, too.
>
> Maybe we should start to recognize that the popularity of Cyclocross has
> nothing to do with drop-handlebars and run-ups. It's growing because the
> racing is visible to spectators and the distances are short enough to keep
> the race fast, fun, and INTERESTING TO WATCH.
>
> Am I the only person who's seeing this?! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills
> here!
>
> _____
>
> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:50:01 -0800
> From: austinc@exponent.com
> To: lacey_sr@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] 08 Oakridge FTF canceled
>
> Couldn't agree more, Steve. Seems like the MTB promoters are taking their
> cues from the political primaries, and trying to get it all over with before
> the trails dry out too much. The current OBRA schedule has 7 mountain bike
> races before June 1. After June 1, there are three actual XC races and two
> endurance races (creampuff and test of endurance), which are slightly
> different animals. While I enjoy a muddy race, I also like to ride on dry
> trails once in awhile and there are virtually no races during the dry season
> anymore. The land managers also prefer to run races when there's less chance
> of severe trail damage, although I know we do run into fire danger if we
> wait too late in the year.
>
>
>
> I for one am very sorry to see any mountain bike races go away, especially
> one as fun as Oakridge. I also wonder who "the series" is who asked Randy to
> move his race earlier; I'm not sure whose interests such a move would
> benefit. If you truly want to marginalize mountain biking, this seems like a
> good way to do it; new riders won't be back if their first experience is a
> 5-hour mudslinger in April, nor will they recruit their friends to do it
> next time.
>
>
>
> I can also respect the argument of the promoters who say they just don't get
> the turnout when they run races later in the summer; however, I wonder how
> much of that is because they've started their season so early; I guess the
> only way to find out would be to start later and see what happens, and
> that's not easy unless the other promoters all agree to wait too.
>
>
>
> I sure will miss mountain bike racing.
>
>
>
> Craig Austin
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Steve Lacey
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:25 AM
> To: Obra List serve
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] 08 Oakridge FTF canceled
>
> Sorry to hear the unfortunate news.
> I wonder why the series takes some of the nastiest part of Oregon's season
> to stage its races when some of the best weather on the planet occurs in
> Oregon during July and August.
>
> I would prefer some XC races in August to keep my fitness up for cross
> season rather than having three months off to maintain fitness.
>
> The Oakridge race venues are some of the best courses I have raced on in my
> 20 years of racing mountain bikes.
>
> To bad, Mike Ripley take note.
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Randy Dreiling
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:46:22 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] 08 Oakridge FTF canceled
>
> Hi All
>
> I am sad to say the 2008 Oakridge FTF has been canceled.
>
> The series asked if the FTF could move to the end of May because the series
> now run March-mid June( the FTF use to be held in July), but the forest
> service has not OKed the date change, because they are worried about owls
> mating and wet trails.
>
> Since I know people will ask why not still have the race in July, my answer
> is....
> I am NOT putting down Cycle Cross I am simply noting as a promoter of 10+
> years that , With the increased popularity of Cycle Cross, Mt Bike racers
> tend to not race as much in the Summer now, this has been proven by the
> decrease in race numbers over the last couple years for Summer races(Spring
> races are still doing OK), while it is great Cycle Cross is growing and
> clearly Cycle Cross is more spectator and family friendly, the downside is
> the Cross Country Mt Bike race season has changed and basically if you have
> a race after mid June or are not part of the series, the number of racers
> drops WAY down at your event.
>
> I hope to work with the Forest Service to host the FTF in 2009.
>
> It has been a real honor hosting the racers over the last 10 years and I
> miss not hosting a race in 2008.
>
> Take care
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> ________
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?
> Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we
> give. Learn more.
>
>
>
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: linner5@comcast.net
To: elongride@hotmail.com; austinc@exponent.com; lacey_sr@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] cancelled xc races and falling numbers
Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 23:28:32 +0000
There is MTB Short Track in June and July
that has become rather popular in the last few years in
size=2 color=navy face=Arial>Portland
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>. Kris Schamp has
done a great job organizing and promoting it. I believe it responds to
most of your points rather well and its dry and hot but short.
David Saltzberg
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
Of Erik Long
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008
3:01 PM
To: Craig Austin; Steve Lacey;
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] cancelled xc
races and falling numbers
style='font-size:12.0pt'>
Has
anyone been to an XC race as a spectator? How bored were YOU? I
mean, damn. I LOVE XC racing. I've been doing it my whole life, but
we make it so freaking DULL. No wonder so few show up.
And Cyclocross is booming . . . hm. Ever notice how short Cyclocross
races are? They're an hour long, and everybody still suffers.
However, at XC races, 3 to 4 hour finish times are all too common. XC
racing is a time-trial effort (not unlike 'cross), and you really can't ride a
fast TT pace for 3 hours, no matter how fit you are. Even a good pro
rider is crawling across the finish line after 3 hours, and who wants to watch
that at every race? Who actually enjoys watching wasted riders cross the
finish line 5 minutes apart? YAWN.
It gets old for racers, too, and the lack of attendance at summer races is an
obvious indicator of that fact. It's called burnout. Maybe
physical, maybe mental, but it IS burnout. It seems that too many of us
are clinging to the idea that a mountianbike race has to be a friggin'
survivalist scenario.
You know what would be really cool? A regional off-road season that went
all the way through summer, maybe a few more spectator-friendly courses.
Race courses that are short enough to ride at full race pace might be a good
idea, too.
Maybe we should start to recognize that the popularity of Cyclocross has
nothing to do with drop-handlebars and run-ups. It's growing because the
racing is visible to spectators and the distances are short enough to keep the
race fast, fun, and INTERESTING TO WATCH.
Am I the only person who's seeing this?! I feel like I'm taking crazy
pills here!
size=2 face=Tahoma>
Date:
Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:50:01 -0800
From: austinc@exponent.com
To: lacey_sr@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] 08 Oakridge FTF canceled
size=2 color=blue face=Arial>Couldn't agree more, Steve. Seems like the MTB promoters are taking
their cues from the political primaries, and trying to get it all over with
before the trails dry out too much. The current OBRA schedule has 7 mountain
bike races before June 1. After June 1, there are three actual XC races
and two endurance races (creampuff and test of endurance), which are
slightly different animals. While I enjoy a muddy race, I also like to ride on dry
trails once in awhile and there are virtually no races during the dry season
anymore. The land managers also prefer to run races when there's less chance of
severe trail damage, although I know we do run into fire danger if we wait too
late in the year.
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
size=2 color=blue face=Arial>I for one am very sorry to see any mountain bike races go away,
especially one as fun as Oakridge. I also wonder who "the series" is
who asked Randy to move his race earlier; I'm not sure whose interests such a
move would benefit. If you truly want to marginalize mountain biking, this
seems like a good way to do it; new riders won't be back if their first
experience is a 5-hour mudslinger in April, nor will they recruit their friends
to do it next time.
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
size=2 color=blue face=Arial>I can also respect the argument of the promoters who say they just
don't get the turnout when they run races later in the summer; however, I
wonder how much of that is because they've started their season so early;
I guess the only way to find out would be to start later and see what happens,
and that's not easy unless the other promoters all agree to wait too.
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
size=2 color=blue face=Arial>I sure will miss mountain bike racing.
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
size=2 color=blue face=Arial>Craig Austin
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
size=2 face=Tahoma>
From:
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Lacey
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008
10:25 AM
To: Obra List serve
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] 08
Oakridge FTF canceled
Sorry
to hear the unfortunate news.
I wonder why the series takes some of the nastiest part of Oregon's season to
stage its races when some of the best weather on the planet occurs in Oregon
during July and August.
I would prefer some XC races in August to keep my fitness up for cross season
rather than having three months off to maintain fitness.
The Oakridge race venues are some of the best courses I have raced on in my 20
years of racing mountain bikes.
To bad, Mike Ripley take note.
Steve
style='font-size:12.0pt'>----- Original Message ----
From: Randy Dreiling
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 2:46:22 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] 08 Oakridge FTF canceled
Hi All
I am sad to say the 2008 Oakridge FTF has been canceled.
The series asked if the FTF could move to the end of May because the series now
run March-mid June( the FTF use to be held in July), but the forest service has
not OKed the date change, because they are worried about owls mating and wet
trails.
Since I know people will ask why not still have the race in July, my answer
is....
I am NOT putting down Cycle Cross I am simply noting as a promoter of 10+ years
that , With the increased popularity of Cycle Cross, Mt Bike racers tend to not
race as much in the Summer now, this has been proven by the decrease in race
numbers over the last couple years for Summer races(Spring races are still
doing OK), while it is great Cycle Cross is growing and clearly Cycle Cross is
more spectator and family friendly, the downside is the Cross Country Mt Bike
race season has changed and basically if you have a race after mid June or are
not part of the series, the number of racers drops WAY down at your event.
I hope to work with the Forest Service to host the FTF in 2009.
It has been a real honor hosting the racers over the last 10 years and I miss
not hosting a race in 2008.
Take care
Randy Dreiling
____________________________________________________________________________________
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
href="http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping"
target="_blank">http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
style='font-size:12.0pt'>
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
size=2 face=Tahoma>
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Never miss a thing.
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs"
target="_blank">Make Yahoo your homepage.
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
size=2 face=Tahoma>
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Helping your favorite cause is as
easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give.
href="http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join"
target="_new">Learn more.
Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word scramble challenge with star power. Play now!
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ