Re: Great point

Erik Long

2008-01-28

Julie, moving Pickett's back to Sunday was the right decision. I'll get to race Pickett's Charge again for the first time in many years. It's much easier for most of us to get a Sunday off than a Saturday. I, for one, really appreciate the change. You put on one of the best XC races on the West Coast. Just keep doing what you're doing, listening to your customers and your race will continue to be a great annual competition.

See you in June,
-Erik

> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:14:27 -0800
> From: jwose@bendnet.com
> To: mike@mudslingerevents.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: Great point
>
> This is interesting because I have heard nothing but grief these past two
> years about Pickett's being held on a Saturday. (I originally moved it to
> Saturday so as not to conflict with the Yreka race). You will notice that
> we have moved it back to Sunday due to "popular demand."
>
> -Julie
>
> > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > From: Mike Ripley
> > Date: Jan 28, 2008 1:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Great point
> > To: "Freyensee, James P"
> >
> >
> > I agree----I can't race on Mothers day unless Andi races and I take my mom
> > to Bend----not going to happen and way to political-----I have tried for
> > years to get them to switch the race to Saturday and I do not think Marcel
> > can do it, buts it is probably do to the fact that Web Cyclery is busier
> > on
> > Saturday or something. Spring Thaw was States last year and that had to
> > have
> > a bump effect and this year I am putting on Table Rock Road Race the day
> > after Thaw to Double your leg burning fun. Don't forget to pull your bike
> > out of the way for me or don't crash. Your a life saver
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 28, 2008 1:30 PM, Freyensee, James P
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I noticed last year that the race overlap was normally due to RR,
> >> Crits,
> >> ITTs, and MTB all being scheduled for Sundays and Saturday was a bare
> >> calendar day, or the only thing that was happening on a Saturday was
> >> track/velodrome racing (starting April through July there are 8 such
> >> occurrences if you also throw in the OBRA Team ITT). Saturdays can be
> >> successful race days for participants whether it is a road or MTB race.
> >> I
> >> could argue a reason why Chainbreaker was down was because it was held
> >> on
> >> the Mother's Day- I knew a few people who would have done the race if it
> >> were not held on Mother's Day. Spring Thaw XC was held on a Saturday
> >> last
> >> year and Mike pointed out the race was up 75+ riders from last year. A
> >> very
> >> nice side benefit I liked from Pickett's Charge (other than it's a great
> >> race) is that it was held on a Saturday- that means you got Sunday to do
> >> whatever you want without the fear you are going to burn yourself out
> >> for
> >> the race the next day. There were a few weekends last year if a MTB race
> >> was
> >> held one day and a Road race was held the other day I would have done
> >> both.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> J
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> >> *On
> >> Behalf Of *Mike Ripley
> >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:42 AM
> >> *To:* Craig Austin
> >> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> >> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Great point
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey Craig,
> >> I missed CC'ing the OBRA list and ya---wrong person--- and you are 100%
> >> right about all of it but here are the stats from 07 to build a
> >> perspective.
> >>
> >> First of all the top 20 at any given race is 70% different riders from
> >> week to week in XC except at the pro/semi-pro level. The top 3-5 is
> >> consistent which means we may after this year want to look at would
> >> riders
> >> go to more races (begginers and sports and a few experts) if they were
> >> spread out or do people like the focus and have time to relax before
> >> cross.
> >> Bend----lower than normal attendance picketts has to compete with mt
> >> hood
> >> and chainbreaker was down
> >> Oakridge and Firecracker doubled in size from 80 to 150 or so
> >> Mudslinger up 30 riders
> >> Test OF Endurance up 45 riders
> >> Bear springs the same
> >> Hornings great first year turnout----200+
> >> Spring Thaw up 75+ riders
> >> Portland short Track----up alot!
> >>
> >> The biggest point to lower turnout is the overlap of all racing and the
> >> fact that on any given Sunday between road/TT and mtb XC we may have 800
> >> people racing bikes which is an awesome problem to have if thats a
> >> problem.
> >> The big fear is that fire danger may creep in on summer events and the
> >> risk
> >> but guess what---I am looking into a summer Venue for this year--- as I
> >> always do with different land agencies and finding a venue with Parking.
> >> I
> >> agree about the mud! Ask anyone I am marginal in the mud racing myself,
> >> but
> >> its a level playing field. I wish in a prefect world that cross was the
> >> last
> >> weekend of September through Mid January and Road Was Mid February
> >> thorough
> >> Mid May for Single day events and XC was the first Weekend of May
> >> through
> >> Labor day with stage racing and those things going on. After the
> >> Mudslinger
> >> being put on in March/April for over 20 years it may never change but oh
> >> well----thats one race. Back in the day the schedule looked like this.
> >> Mudslinger/Lemurian (Shasta) Washington series going on so we would
> >> drive
> >> up. Spring Thaw, a bend race or two and Mt Hood Maybe 6 big races.
> >> Overall
> >> we have more turnout now but with more races people pick and
> >> choose.Thebig point if it does get hot is having the availability to
> >> shorten the race
> >> and keep it fun--no 3 hr death marches at 100+ degree's. I guess for the
> >> mud
> >> get a good fender and a great mud tire and take advantage of it. The one
> >> good thing about no summer racing is we have time to go on vacation or
> >> spend
> >> time with or family's and ride our favorite trails. Here's to trying new
> >> things---like racing in the snow. Time to build trails-----anyone have
> >> experimental drying agents for trails.
> >>
> >> Here's to Sunny skies.
> >> MIike Ripley
> >> OBRA mtb Rep
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >> On Jan 27, 2008 12:29 AM, Craig Austin wrote:
> >>
> >> Mike, was that supposed to come just to me? Because I'm not sure I made
> >> the point you're responding to, must've been someone else.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> But while I have you on the line, I think you guys do a great job but
> >> I've
> >> been trying for years to get the series moved BACK, not up. Seriously,
> >> Oregon has the best weather on the planet for racing mountain bikes--in
> >> June
> >> and July, and into August. April and May are just not great times to be
> >> riding singletrack here. I personally think that's the biggest reason
> >> for
> >> the downturn in participation. I'm pretty sure the Bend races haven't
> >> had as
> >> drastic a reduction, and one really big reason is that you're pretty
> >> sure
> >> you won't be racing in mud. Mud is for cross. A little bit of mud is
> >> fine
> >> for mountain biking. But I've seen you throw your bike when it clogged
> >> up
> >> with mud at Reehers a few years ago, and that race nearly soured me on
> >> Oregon MTB racing for the rest of that season. Unfortunately, it's a
> >> chicken-and-egg thing right now; the later races in the past few years
> >> have
> >> had lower turnout, so the promoters keep moving them earlier, which
> >> means
> >> people burn out on riding mountain bikes earlier, so even the June races
> >> suffer from lack of attendance. So the promoters think no one wants to
> >> race
> >> in the summer, and move more and more races to the spring.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I may be wrong, but I think if you guys would wait until May to start
> >> racing, you'd have bigger turnouts. By then several road races would've
> >> already happened, so a bunch of people who would normally choose a road
> >> race
> >> over a mtb race will already have done a few road races and will be
> >> ready
> >> for a change. Also, drier races mean that roadies aren't going to be
> >> intimidated into missing it, like they are for muddy races. You aren't
> >> going
> >> to lose the hardcore mountain bikers by racing May, June, July instead
> >> of
> >> April, May, June, and you might be surprised how many more racers show
> >> up.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> All of this is my opinion, of course, but I have talked to dozens of
> >> racers who have quit racing mountain bikes and the number one reason I
> >> hear
> >> is that nearly all the races are held in the mud.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Craig
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> *From:* ripleymike1@gmail.com [mailto:ripleymike1@gmail.com] *On Behalf
> >> Of
> >> *Mike Ripley
> >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:41 PM
> >> *To:* Craig Austin
> >> *Subject:* Great point
> >>
> >> Hey,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Great point----We just need a 6-10 mile loop in Forest Park or another
> >> urban area but in Oregon Xc racing is about the riders experience and
> >> the
> >> adventure. Picketts and Chainbreaker have 2-3 times where you see the
> >> rider
> >> 30-45 minutes but thats the extent of it. I guess in part that is what
> >> makes
> >> cross great and XC racing is not cross. Not defending which is
> >> better----they are just different beasts.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I will look for good venues this year and if you think one has potential
> >> keep me informed. Land is tough to come by and it takes years to build
> >> the
> >> trust to use it and one person can mess that up in so many ways
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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jwose@bendnet.com

2008-01-28

This is interesting because I have heard nothing but grief these past two
years about Pickett's being held on a Saturday. (I originally moved it to
Saturday so as not to conflict with the Yreka race). You will notice that
we have moved it back to Sunday due to "popular demand."

-Julie

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Mike Ripley
> Date: Jan 28, 2008 1:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Great point
> To: "Freyensee, James P"
>
>
> I agree----I can't race on Mothers day unless Andi races and I take my mom
> to Bend----not going to happen and way to political-----I have tried for
> years to get them to switch the race to Saturday and I do not think Marcel
> can do it, buts it is probably do to the fact that Web Cyclery is busier
> on
> Saturday or something. Spring Thaw was States last year and that had to
> have
> a bump effect and this year I am putting on Table Rock Road Race the day
> after Thaw to Double your leg burning fun. Don't forget to pull your bike
> out of the way for me or don't crash. Your a life saver
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2008 1:30 PM, Freyensee, James P
> wrote:
>
>> I noticed last year that the race overlap was normally due to RR,
>> Crits,
>> ITTs, and MTB all being scheduled for Sundays and Saturday was a bare
>> calendar day, or the only thing that was happening on a Saturday was
>> track/velodrome racing (starting April through July there are 8 such
>> occurrences if you also throw in the OBRA Team ITT). Saturdays can be
>> successful race days for participants whether it is a road or MTB race.
>> I
>> could argue a reason why Chainbreaker was down was because it was held
>> on
>> the Mother's Day- I knew a few people who would have done the race if it
>> were not held on Mother's Day. Spring Thaw XC was held on a Saturday
>> last
>> year and Mike pointed out the race was up 75+ riders from last year. A
>> very
>> nice side benefit I liked from Pickett's Charge (other than it's a great
>> race) is that it was held on a Saturday- that means you got Sunday to do
>> whatever you want without the fear you are going to burn yourself out
>> for
>> the race the next day. There were a few weekends last year if a MTB race
>> was
>> held one day and a Road race was held the other day I would have done
>> both.
>>
>>
>>
>> J
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
>> *On
>> Behalf Of *Mike Ripley
>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:42 AM
>> *To:* Craig Austin
>> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Great point
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey Craig,
>> I missed CC'ing the OBRA list and ya---wrong person--- and you are 100%
>> right about all of it but here are the stats from 07 to build a
>> perspective.
>>
>> First of all the top 20 at any given race is 70% different riders from
>> week to week in XC except at the pro/semi-pro level. The top 3-5 is
>> consistent which means we may after this year want to look at would
>> riders
>> go to more races (begginers and sports and a few experts) if they were
>> spread out or do people like the focus and have time to relax before
>> cross.
>> Bend----lower than normal attendance picketts has to compete with mt
>> hood
>> and chainbreaker was down
>> Oakridge and Firecracker doubled in size from 80 to 150 or so
>> Mudslinger up 30 riders
>> Test OF Endurance up 45 riders
>> Bear springs the same
>> Hornings great first year turnout----200+
>> Spring Thaw up 75+ riders
>> Portland short Track----up alot!
>>
>> The biggest point to lower turnout is the overlap of all racing and the
>> fact that on any given Sunday between road/TT and mtb XC we may have 800
>> people racing bikes which is an awesome problem to have if thats a
>> problem.
>> The big fear is that fire danger may creep in on summer events and the
>> risk
>> but guess what---I am looking into a summer Venue for this year--- as I
>> always do with different land agencies and finding a venue with Parking.
>> I
>> agree about the mud! Ask anyone I am marginal in the mud racing myself,
>> but
>> its a level playing field. I wish in a prefect world that cross was the
>> last
>> weekend of September through Mid January and Road Was Mid February
>> thorough
>> Mid May for Single day events and XC was the first Weekend of May
>> through
>> Labor day with stage racing and those things going on. After the
>> Mudslinger
>> being put on in March/April for over 20 years it may never change but oh
>> well----thats one race. Back in the day the schedule looked like this.
>> Mudslinger/Lemurian (Shasta) Washington series going on so we would
>> drive
>> up. Spring Thaw, a bend race or two and Mt Hood Maybe 6 big races.
>> Overall
>> we have more turnout now but with more races people pick and
>> choose.Thebig point if it does get hot is having the availability to
>> shorten the race
>> and keep it fun--no 3 hr death marches at 100+ degree's. I guess for the
>> mud
>> get a good fender and a great mud tire and take advantage of it. The one
>> good thing about no summer racing is we have time to go on vacation or
>> spend
>> time with or family's and ride our favorite trails. Here's to trying new
>> things---like racing in the snow. Time to build trails-----anyone have
>> experimental drying agents for trails.
>>
>> Here's to Sunny skies.
>> MIike Ripley
>> OBRA mtb Rep
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>> On Jan 27, 2008 12:29 AM, Craig Austin wrote:
>>
>> Mike, was that supposed to come just to me? Because I'm not sure I made
>> the point you're responding to, must've been someone else.
>>
>>
>>
>> But while I have you on the line, I think you guys do a great job but
>> I've
>> been trying for years to get the series moved BACK, not up. Seriously,
>> Oregon has the best weather on the planet for racing mountain bikes--in
>> June
>> and July, and into August. April and May are just not great times to be
>> riding singletrack here. I personally think that's the biggest reason
>> for
>> the downturn in participation. I'm pretty sure the Bend races haven't
>> had as
>> drastic a reduction, and one really big reason is that you're pretty
>> sure
>> you won't be racing in mud. Mud is for cross. A little bit of mud is
>> fine
>> for mountain biking. But I've seen you throw your bike when it clogged
>> up
>> with mud at Reehers a few years ago, and that race nearly soured me on
>> Oregon MTB racing for the rest of that season. Unfortunately, it's a
>> chicken-and-egg thing right now; the later races in the past few years
>> have
>> had lower turnout, so the promoters keep moving them earlier, which
>> means
>> people burn out on riding mountain bikes earlier, so even the June races
>> suffer from lack of attendance. So the promoters think no one wants to
>> race
>> in the summer, and move more and more races to the spring.
>>
>>
>>
>> I may be wrong, but I think if you guys would wait until May to start
>> racing, you'd have bigger turnouts. By then several road races would've
>> already happened, so a bunch of people who would normally choose a road
>> race
>> over a mtb race will already have done a few road races and will be
>> ready
>> for a change. Also, drier races mean that roadies aren't going to be
>> intimidated into missing it, like they are for muddy races. You aren't
>> going
>> to lose the hardcore mountain bikers by racing May, June, July instead
>> of
>> April, May, June, and you might be surprised how many more racers show
>> up.
>>
>>
>>
>> All of this is my opinion, of course, but I have talked to dozens of
>> racers who have quit racing mountain bikes and the number one reason I
>> hear
>> is that nearly all the races are held in the mud.
>>
>>
>>
>> Craig
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* ripleymike1@gmail.com [mailto:ripleymike1@gmail.com] *On Behalf
>> Of
>> *Mike Ripley
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:41 PM
>> *To:* Craig Austin
>> *Subject:* Great point
>>
>> Hey,
>>
>>
>>
>> Great point----We just need a 6-10 mile loop in Forest Park or another
>> urban area but in Oregon Xc racing is about the riders experience and
>> the
>> adventure. Picketts and Chainbreaker have 2-3 times where you see the
>> rider
>> 30-45 minutes but thats the extent of it. I guess in part that is what
>> makes
>> cross great and XC racing is not cross. Not defending which is
>> better----they are just different beasts.
>>
>>
>>
>> I will look for good venues this year and if you think one has potential
>> keep me informed. Land is tough to come by and it takes years to build
>> the
>> trust to use it and one person can mess that up in so many ways
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Mike Ripley

2008-01-28

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mike Ripley
Date: Jan 28, 2008 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Great point
To: "Freyensee, James P"

I agree----I can't race on Mothers day unless Andi races and I take my mom
to Bend----not going to happen and way to political-----I have tried for
years to get them to switch the race to Saturday and I do not think Marcel
can do it, buts it is probably do to the fact that Web Cyclery is busier on
Saturday or something. Spring Thaw was States last year and that had to have
a bump effect and this year I am putting on Table Rock Road Race the day
after Thaw to Double your leg burning fun. Don't forget to pull your bike
out of the way for me or don't crash. Your a life saver

Mike

On Jan 28, 2008 1:30 PM, Freyensee, James P
wrote:

> I noticed last year that the race overlap was normally due to RR, Crits,
> ITTs, and MTB all being scheduled for Sundays and Saturday was a bare
> calendar day, or the only thing that was happening on a Saturday was
> track/velodrome racing (starting April through July there are 8 such
> occurrences if you also throw in the OBRA Team ITT). Saturdays can be
> successful race days for participants whether it is a road or MTB race. I
> could argue a reason why Chainbreaker was down was because it was held on
> the Mother's Day- I knew a few people who would have done the race if it
> were not held on Mother's Day. Spring Thaw XC was held on a Saturday last
> year and Mike pointed out the race was up 75+ riders from last year. A very
> nice side benefit I liked from Pickett's Charge (other than it's a great
> race) is that it was held on a Saturday- that means you got Sunday to do
> whatever you want without the fear you are going to burn yourself out for
> the race the next day. There were a few weekends last year if a MTB race was
> held one day and a Road race was held the other day I would have done both.
>
>
>
> J
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Mike Ripley
> *Sent:* Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:42 AM
> *To:* Craig Austin
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Great point
>
>
>
> Hey Craig,
> I missed CC'ing the OBRA list and ya---wrong person--- and you are 100%
> right about all of it but here are the stats from 07 to build a perspective.
>
> First of all the top 20 at any given race is 70% different riders from
> week to week in XC except at the pro/semi-pro level. The top 3-5 is
> consistent which means we may after this year want to look at would riders
> go to more races (begginers and sports and a few experts) if they were
> spread out or do people like the focus and have time to relax before cross.
> Bend----lower than normal attendance picketts has to compete with mt hood
> and chainbreaker was down
> Oakridge and Firecracker doubled in size from 80 to 150 or so
> Mudslinger up 30 riders
> Test OF Endurance up 45 riders
> Bear springs the same
> Hornings great first year turnout----200+
> Spring Thaw up 75+ riders
> Portland short Track----up alot!
>
> The biggest point to lower turnout is the overlap of all racing and the
> fact that on any given Sunday between road/TT and mtb XC we may have 800
> people racing bikes which is an awesome problem to have if thats a problem.
> The big fear is that fire danger may creep in on summer events and the risk
> but guess what---I am looking into a summer Venue for this year--- as I
> always do with different land agencies and finding a venue with Parking. I
> agree about the mud! Ask anyone I am marginal in the mud racing myself, but
> its a level playing field. I wish in a prefect world that cross was the last
> weekend of September through Mid January and Road Was Mid February thorough
> Mid May for Single day events and XC was the first Weekend of May through
> Labor day with stage racing and those things going on. After the Mudslinger
> being put on in March/April for over 20 years it may never change but oh
> well----thats one race. Back in the day the schedule looked like this.
> Mudslinger/Lemurian (Shasta) Washington series going on so we would drive
> up. Spring Thaw, a bend race or two and Mt Hood Maybe 6 big races. Overall
> we have more turnout now but with more races people pick and choose.Thebig point if it does get hot is having the availability to shorten the race
> and keep it fun--no 3 hr death marches at 100+ degree's. I guess for the mud
> get a good fender and a great mud tire and take advantage of it. The one
> good thing about no summer racing is we have time to go on vacation or spend
> time with or family's and ride our favorite trails. Here's to trying new
> things---like racing in the snow. Time to build trails-----anyone have
> experimental drying agents for trails.
>
> Here's to Sunny skies.
> MIike Ripley
> OBRA mtb Rep
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Jan 27, 2008 12:29 AM, Craig Austin wrote:
>
> Mike, was that supposed to come just to me? Because I'm not sure I made
> the point you're responding to, must've been someone else.
>
>
>
> But while I have you on the line, I think you guys do a great job but I've
> been trying for years to get the series moved BACK, not up. Seriously,
> Oregon has the best weather on the planet for racing mountain bikes--in June
> and July, and into August. April and May are just not great times to be
> riding singletrack here. I personally think that's the biggest reason for
> the downturn in participation. I'm pretty sure the Bend races haven't had as
> drastic a reduction, and one really big reason is that you're pretty sure
> you won't be racing in mud. Mud is for cross. A little bit of mud is fine
> for mountain biking. But I've seen you throw your bike when it clogged up
> with mud at Reehers a few years ago, and that race nearly soured me on
> Oregon MTB racing for the rest of that season. Unfortunately, it's a
> chicken-and-egg thing right now; the later races in the past few years have
> had lower turnout, so the promoters keep moving them earlier, which means
> people burn out on riding mountain bikes earlier, so even the June races
> suffer from lack of attendance. So the promoters think no one wants to race
> in the summer, and move more and more races to the spring.
>
>
>
> I may be wrong, but I think if you guys would wait until May to start
> racing, you'd have bigger turnouts. By then several road races would've
> already happened, so a bunch of people who would normally choose a road race
> over a mtb race will already have done a few road races and will be ready
> for a change. Also, drier races mean that roadies aren't going to be
> intimidated into missing it, like they are for muddy races. You aren't going
> to lose the hardcore mountain bikers by racing May, June, July instead of
> April, May, June, and you might be surprised how many more racers show up.
>
>
>
> All of this is my opinion, of course, but I have talked to dozens of
> racers who have quit racing mountain bikes and the number one reason I hear
> is that nearly all the races are held in the mud.
>
>
>
> Craig
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* ripleymike1@gmail.com [mailto:ripleymike1@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Mike Ripley
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:41 PM
> *To:* Craig Austin
> *Subject:* Great point
>
> Hey,
>
>
>
> Great point----We just need a 6-10 mile loop in Forest Park or another
> urban area but in Oregon Xc racing is about the riders experience and the
> adventure. Picketts and Chainbreaker have 2-3 times where you see the rider
> 30-45 minutes but thats the extent of it. I guess in part that is what makes
> cross great and XC racing is not cross. Not defending which is
> better----they are just different beasts.
>
>
>
> I will look for good venues this year and if you think one has potential
> keep me informed. Land is tough to come by and it takes years to build the
> trust to use it and one person can mess that up in so many ways
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>


Freyensee, James P

2008-01-28

I noticed last year that the race overlap was normally due to RR, Crits,
ITTs, and MTB all being scheduled for Sundays and Saturday was a bare
calendar day, or the only thing that was happening on a Saturday was
track/velodrome racing (starting April through July there are 8 such
occurrences if you also throw in the OBRA Team ITT). Saturdays can be
successful race days for participants whether it is a road or MTB race.
I could argue a reason why Chainbreaker was down was because it was held
on the Mother's Day- I knew a few people who would have done the race if
it were not held on Mother's Day. Spring Thaw XC was held on a Saturday
last year and Mike pointed out the race was up 75+ riders from last
year. A very nice side benefit I liked from Pickett's Charge (other
than it's a great race) is that it was held on a Saturday- that means
you got Sunday to do whatever you want without the fear you are going to
burn yourself out for the race the next day. There were a few weekends
last year if a MTB race was held one day and a Road race was held the
other day I would have done both.

J

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mike Ripley
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 11:42 AM
To: Craig Austin
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Great point

Hey Craig,
I missed CC'ing the OBRA list and ya---wrong person--- and you are 100%
right about all of it but here are the stats from 07 to build a
perspective.
First of all the top 20 at any given race is 70% different riders from
week to week in XC except at the pro/semi-pro level. The top 3-5 is
consistent which means we may after this year want to look at would
riders go to more races (begginers and sports and a few experts) if they
were spread out or do people like the focus and have time to relax
before cross.
Bend----lower than normal attendance picketts has to compete with mt
hood and chainbreaker was down
Oakridge and Firecracker doubled in size from 80 to 150 or so
Mudslinger up 30 riders
Test OF Endurance up 45 riders
Bear springs the same
Hornings great first year turnout----200+
Spring Thaw up 75+ riders
Portland short Track----up alot!

The biggest point to lower turnout is the overlap of all racing and the
fact that on any given Sunday between road/TT and mtb XC we may have 800
people racing bikes which is an awesome problem to have if thats a
problem. The big fear is that fire danger may creep in on summer events
and the risk but guess what---I am looking into a summer Venue for this
year--- as I always do with different land agencies and finding a venue
with Parking. I agree about the mud! Ask anyone I am marginal in the
mud racing myself, but its a level playing field. I wish in a prefect
world that cross was the last weekend of September through Mid January
and Road Was Mid February thorough Mid May for Single day events and XC
was the first Weekend of May through Labor day with stage racing and
those things going on. After the Mudslinger being put on in March/April
for over 20 years it may never change but oh well----thats one race.
Back in the day the schedule looked like this. Mudslinger/Lemurian
(Shasta) Washington series going on so we would drive up. Spring Thaw, a
bend race or two and Mt Hood Maybe 6 big races. Overall we have more
turnout now but with more races people pick and choose.The big point if
it does get hot is having the availability to shorten the race and keep
it fun--no 3 hr death marches at 100+ degree's. I guess for the mud get
a good fender and a great mud tire and take advantage of it. The one
good thing about no summer racing is we have time to go on vacation or
spend time with or family's and ride our favorite trails. Here's to
trying new things---like racing in the snow. Time to build
trails-----anyone have experimental drying agents for trails.

Here's to Sunny skies.
MIike Ripley
OBRA mtb Rep

Mike

On Jan 27, 2008 12:29 AM, Craig Austin wrote:

Mike, was that supposed to come just to me? Because I'm not sure I made
the point you're responding to, must've been someone else.

But while I have you on the line, I think you guys do a great job but
I've been trying for years to get the series moved BACK, not up.
Seriously, Oregon has the best weather on the planet for racing mountain
bikes--in June and July, and into August. April and May are just not
great times to be riding singletrack here. I personally think that's the
biggest reason for the downturn in participation. I'm pretty sure the
Bend races haven't had as drastic a reduction, and one really big reason
is that you're pretty sure you won't be racing in mud. Mud is for cross.
A little bit of mud is fine for mountain biking. But I've seen you throw
your bike when it clogged up with mud at Reehers a few years ago, and
that race nearly soured me on Oregon MTB racing for the rest of that
season. Unfortunately, it's a chicken-and-egg thing right now; the later
races in the past few years have had lower turnout, so the promoters
keep moving them earlier, which means people burn out on riding mountain
bikes earlier, so even the June races suffer from lack of attendance. So
the promoters think no one wants to race in the summer, and move more
and more races to the spring.

I may be wrong, but I think if you guys would wait until May to start
racing, you'd have bigger turnouts. By then several road races would've
already happened, so a bunch of people who would normally choose a road
race over a mtb race will already have done a few road races and will be
ready for a change. Also, drier races mean that roadies aren't going to
be intimidated into missing it, like they are for muddy races. You
aren't going to lose the hardcore mountain bikers by racing May, June,
July instead of April, May, June, and you might be surprised how many
more racers show up.

All of this is my opinion, of course, but I have talked to dozens of
racers who have quit racing mountain bikes and the number one reason I
hear is that nearly all the races are held in the mud.

Craig

________________________________

From: ripleymike1@gmail.com [mailto:ripleymike1@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Mike Ripley
Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:41 PM
To: Craig Austin
Subject: Great point

Hey,

Great point----We just need a 6-10 mile loop in Forest Park or another
urban area but in Oregon Xc racing is about the riders experience and
the adventure. Picketts and Chainbreaker have 2-3 times where you see
the rider 30-45 minutes but thats the extent of it. I guess in part that
is what makes cross great and XC racing is not cross. Not defending
which is better----they are just different beasts.

I will look for good venues this year and if you think one has potential
keep me informed. Land is tough to come by and it takes years to build
the trust to use it and one person can mess that up in so many ways

Mike


Mike Ripley

2008-01-27

Hey Craig,
I missed CC'ing the OBRA list and ya---wrong person--- and you are 100%
right about all of it but here are the stats from 07 to build a perspective.

First of all the top 20 at any given race is 70% different riders from week
to week in XC except at the pro/semi-pro level. The top 3-5 is consistent
which means we may after this year want to look at would riders go to more
races (begginers and sports and a few experts) if they were spread out or do
people like the focus and have time to relax before cross.
Bend----lower than normal attendance picketts has to compete with mt hood
and chainbreaker was down
Oakridge and Firecracker doubled in size from 80 to 150 or so
Mudslinger up 30 riders
Test OF Endurance up 45 riders
Bear springs the same
Hornings great first year turnout----200+
Spring Thaw up 75+ riders
Portland short Track----up alot!

The biggest point to lower turnout is the overlap of all racing and the
fact that on any given Sunday between road/TT and mtb XC we may have 800
people racing bikes which is an awesome problem to have if thats a problem.
The big fear is that fire danger may creep in on summer events and the risk
but guess what---I am looking into a summer Venue for this year--- as I
always do with different land agencies and finding a venue with Parking. I
agree about the mud! Ask anyone I am marginal in the mud racing myself, but
its a level playing field. I wish in a prefect world that cross was the last
weekend of September through Mid January and Road Was Mid February thorough
Mid May for Single day events and XC was the first Weekend of May through
Labor day with stage racing and those things going on. After the Mudslinger
being put on in March/April for over 20 years it may never change but oh
well----thats one race. Back in the day the schedule looked like this.
Mudslinger/Lemurian (Shasta) Washington series going on so we would drive
up. Spring Thaw, a bend race or two and Mt Hood Maybe 6 big races. Overall
we have more turnout now but with more races people pick and choose.The big
point if it does get hot is having the availability to shorten the race and
keep it fun--no 3 hr death marches at 100+ degree's. I guess for the mud get
a good fender and a great mud tire and take advantage of it. The one good
thing about no summer racing is we have time to go on vacation or spend time
with or family's and ride our favorite trails. Here's to trying new
things---like racing in the snow. Time to build trails-----anyone have
experimental drying agents for trails.

Here's to Sunny skies.
MIike Ripley
OBRA mtb Rep

Mike

On Jan 27, 2008 12:29 AM, Craig Austin wrote:

> Mike, was that supposed to come just to me? Because I'm not sure I made
> the point you're responding to, must've been someone else.
>
> But while I have you on the line, I think you guys do a great job but I've
> been trying for years to get the series moved BACK, not up. Seriously,
> Oregon has the best weather on the planet for racing mountain bikes--in June
> and July, and into August. April and May are just not great times to be
> riding singletrack here. I personally think that's the biggest reason for
> the downturn in participation. I'm pretty sure the Bend races haven't had as
> drastic a reduction, and one really big reason is that you're pretty sure
> you won't be racing in mud. Mud is for cross. A little bit of mud is fine
> for mountain biking. But I've seen you throw your bike when it clogged up
> with mud at Reehers a few years ago, and that race nearly soured me on
> Oregon MTB racing for the rest of that season. Unfortunately, it's a
> chicken-and-egg thing right now; the later races in the past few years have
> had lower turnout, so the promoters keep moving them earlier, which means
> people burn out on riding mountain bikes earlier, so even the June races
> suffer from lack of attendance. So the promoters think no one wants to race
> in the summer, and move more and more races to the spring.
>
> I may be wrong, but I think if you guys would wait until May to start
> racing, you'd have bigger turnouts. By then several road races would've
> already happened, so a bunch of people who would normally choose a road race
> over a mtb race will already have done a few road races and will be ready
> for a change. Also, drier races mean that roadies aren't going to be
> intimidated into missing it, like they are for muddy races. You aren't going
> to lose the hardcore mountain bikers by racing May, June, July instead of
> April, May, June, and you might be surprised how many more racers show up.
>
> All of this is my opinion, of course, but I have talked to dozens of
> racers who have quit racing mountain bikes and the number one reason I hear
> is that nearly all the races are held in the mud.
>
> Craig
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* ripleymike1@gmail.com [mailto:ripleymike1@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of
> *Mike Ripley
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:41 PM
> *To:* Craig Austin
> *Subject:* Great point
>
> Hey,
> Great point----We just need a 6-10 mile loop in Forest Park or another
> urban area but in Oregon Xc racing is about the riders experience and the
> adventure. Picketts and Chainbreaker have 2-3 times where you see the rider
> 30-45 minutes but thats the extent of it. I guess in part that is what makes
> cross great and XC racing is not cross. Not defending which is
> better----they are just different beasts.
>
> I will look for good venues this year and if you think one has potential
> keep me informed. Land is tough to come by and it takes years to build the
> trust to use it and one person can mess that up in so many ways
>
> Mike
>