Portland's new bike box/green bike lane

Matthew Rider

2008-03-16

It gives you an opportunity to stage for the light ahead of the cars so they
don't make a right turn into you.

Rider

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 9:19 AM, Doug Sears wrote:

> Thanks for the pictures. After viewing them, I don't understand the use of
> the bike box. If you're over on the right in the bike lane, why (and how)
> would you move 6 feet or so to the left to be in the box while stopped,
> when you just have to move back to the right into the lane as soon as the
> light changes?
>
> --Doug Sears
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Maus"
> To: "OBRA list list"
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:17 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane
>
>
> Today, the city of Portland made good on a promise to try and make our
> roads safer after the two tragedies last October.
>
> here are some of the first photos of the new bike box and colored
> lane. This one is at SE Hawthorne and 7th and is the first of 14
> similar intersection treatments.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2pfeup
>
> (note: the actual bike box has not been filled in with green paint
> yet...that is expected to be finished on monday).
>
> cheers,
> --Jonathan
> _____________________
> Jonathan Maus
> Editor, BikePortland.org
> http://www.BikePortland.org
> News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
> jonathan@bikeportland.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Isaac Harris

2008-03-16

How is the box a joke, and how do these measures decrease the safety of
"traffic challenged cyclists"? What is a traffic challenged cyclist? A
cyclist with little experience riding on busy streets? or any cyclist who
might get hit from behind by a distracted driver?

No amount of safety measures can possibly protect us from every possible
accident, but additional visibility in the form of bright, heat adhered,
mineral mixed plastic lane markers will possibly lead to a decrease in
accidents. If we do nothing, accidents will continue to happen. If we do
something, there will still be accidents but certain types are likely to be
decreased. I'm willing and happy to let things be tried, even if they cost
money and use resources. Any effort in this direction makes cycling on the
street safer, and more visible. The safer it is the more likely someone is
to try cycling, especially if they feel traffic challenged.

And if cycling safety is a political issue, isn't that a good thing?

On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 2:15 PM, Dan H wrote:

> Jerry,
> That's true right up until Murphy's law kicks in. I was rear ended while
> stopped at a light. No "box" would have saved me from the OHSU doctor that
> was distracted by whatever.
> The "box" is a joke and a waste of resources that gives traffic challenged
> cyclists a false sense of security that can lead to unsafe traffic cycling
> practices. When we depend on traffic laws to protect us, the skill level
> goes down. If I had run that light, (there was no possible chance of cross
> traffic except for maybe a patron leaving the bar at Friar Tucks) I would
> have been spared injury.
> Dan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerald M Powell"
> To: "Steve and Alli" ; "Doug Sears"
>
> Cc: "OBRA list list"
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane
>
>
> > Hey folks... Having been riding bicycles in traffic for nearly fifty
> > years, I can tell you that the safest place (when stopped at a traffic
> > control device with cars and trucks also stopped there) is to be in
> > front of the nearest car or truck... never beside it. Forrester
> > recognized that reality with the "take the lane" strategy as well. If
> > you're right in front of even the least attentive driver, he/she can't
> > claim that you couldn't be seen... nor can you be surprised by that
> > driver suddenly cutting you off, or worse.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Steve and Alli wrote:
> >
> >> It's really to get cyclist's seen and out in front of stopped cars,
> >> to help
> >> prevent the "right hook" crash which is one of the most prevalent
> >> urban
> >> car-bike conflicts. It's typically only used with stoplight-
> >> controlled
> >> intersections. Check out this video if you're unfamiliar with their
> >> use:
> >> http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/how-to-use-a-bike-box/
> >>
> >> Steve Jorgensen
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Doug Sears"
> >> To: "OBRA list list"
> >> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:19 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks for the pictures. After viewing them, I don't understand the
> >>> use of
> >>> the bike box. If you're over on the right in the bike lane, why
> >>> (and how)
> >>> would you move 6 feet or so to the left to be in the box while
> >>> stopped,
> >>> when you just have to move back to the right into the lane as soon
> >>> as the
> >>> light changes?
> >>>
> >>> --Doug Sears
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Jonathan Maus"
> >>> To: "OBRA list list"
> >>> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:17 PM
> >>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Today, the city of Portland made good on a promise to try and make
> >>> our
> >>> roads safer after the two tragedies last October.
> >>>
> >>> here are some of the first photos of the new bike box and colored
> >>> lane. This one is at SE Hawthorne and 7th and is the first of 14
> >>> similar intersection treatments.
> >>>
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/2pfeup
> >>>
> >>> (note: the actual bike box has not been filled in with green paint
> >>> yet...that is expected to be finished on monday).
> >>>
> >>> cheers,
> >>> --Jonathan Maus
> >>>
> >
> >
> > Jerry Powell
> > USAC Level 1 Coach
> > 1926 SW Madison St
> > Portland, OR 97205
> >
> > 503 222 7173
> > 503 799 7823 (cellular)
> >
> > jpowell@spiritone.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Michael O'Hair

2008-03-16

Murphy's Law is as follows: If it can be done wrong, it will be done wrong.
Note: There really was a Murphy. (Hint: It had to do with the rocket sled
experiments.)

What is in place is Heilein's Dictum (paraphrased here): Never mistake
incompentence for enemy action.

O'Hair's Corollary: The results are often the same.

I have heard strong negative opinions from relatively rational people about
the bike boxes. The most reasonable one I've heard is that the city will
point with pride to a small scale project (as soon as they can since this is
an election year) and blow it up into a multi-million dollar mega-project
and put them everywhere.

The law of unintended consequences is always in place even in the best of
circumstances. What I fear is that there will be a strong tendency on the
part of motor vehiclists to view the bike box as more room for them. Just
as they do now with bike lanes and transit lanes.

Both Jerry's and Dan's comments are valid. Basically, it's up to you to
take care of yourself. Do not put your (or your child's) life on the line
just because you have the "right of way." As the man said, "God didn't tell
nobody to be stupid."

Like Jerry, I've been riding my bike in Portland and the West Hills for over
fifty years. And what I've learned is simple: Don't trust anyone.


Dan H

2008-03-16

Jerry,
That's true right up until Murphy's law kicks in. I was rear ended while
stopped at a light. No "box" would have saved me from the OHSU doctor that
was distracted by whatever.
The "box" is a joke and a waste of resources that gives traffic challenged
cyclists a false sense of security that can lead to unsafe traffic cycling
practices. When we depend on traffic laws to protect us, the skill level
goes down. If I had run that light, (there was no possible chance of cross
traffic except for maybe a patron leaving the bar at Friar Tucks) I would
have been spared injury.
Dan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerald M Powell"
To: "Steve and Alli" ; "Doug Sears"

Cc: "OBRA list list"
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane

> Hey folks... Having been riding bicycles in traffic for nearly fifty
> years, I can tell you that the safest place (when stopped at a traffic
> control device with cars and trucks also stopped there) is to be in
> front of the nearest car or truck... never beside it. Forrester
> recognized that reality with the "take the lane" strategy as well. If
> you're right in front of even the least attentive driver, he/she can't
> claim that you couldn't be seen... nor can you be surprised by that
> driver suddenly cutting you off, or worse.
>
> Jerry
>
> On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Steve and Alli wrote:
>
>> It's really to get cyclist's seen and out in front of stopped cars,
>> to help
>> prevent the "right hook" crash which is one of the most prevalent
>> urban
>> car-bike conflicts. It's typically only used with stoplight-
>> controlled
>> intersections. Check out this video if you're unfamiliar with their
>> use:
>> http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/how-to-use-a-bike-box/
>>
>> Steve Jorgensen
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Doug Sears"
>> To: "OBRA list list"
>> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane
>>
>>
>>> Thanks for the pictures. After viewing them, I don't understand the
>>> use of
>>> the bike box. If you're over on the right in the bike lane, why
>>> (and how)
>>> would you move 6 feet or so to the left to be in the box while
>>> stopped,
>>> when you just have to move back to the right into the lane as soon
>>> as the
>>> light changes?
>>>
>>> --Doug Sears
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jonathan Maus"
>>> To: "OBRA list list"
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:17 PM
>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane
>>>
>>>
>>> Today, the city of Portland made good on a promise to try and make
>>> our
>>> roads safer after the two tragedies last October.
>>>
>>> here are some of the first photos of the new bike box and colored
>>> lane. This one is at SE Hawthorne and 7th and is the first of 14
>>> similar intersection treatments.
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2pfeup
>>>
>>> (note: the actual bike box has not been filled in with green paint
>>> yet...that is expected to be finished on monday).
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> --Jonathan Maus
>>>
>
>
> Jerry Powell
> USAC Level 1 Coach
> 1926 SW Madison St
> Portland, OR 97205
>
> 503 222 7173
> 503 799 7823 (cellular)
>
> jpowell@spiritone.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Jerald M Powell

2008-03-16

Hey folks... Having been riding bicycles in traffic for nearly fifty
years, I can tell you that the safest place (when stopped at a traffic
control device with cars and trucks also stopped there) is to be in
front of the nearest car or truck... never beside it. Forrester
recognized that reality with the "take the lane" strategy as well. If
you're right in front of even the least attentive driver, he/she can't
claim that you couldn't be seen... nor can you be surprised by that
driver suddenly cutting you off, or worse.

Jerry

On Mar 16, 2008, at 9:37 AM, Steve and Alli wrote:

> It's really to get cyclist's seen and out in front of stopped cars,
> to help
> prevent the "right hook" crash which is one of the most prevalent
> urban
> car-bike conflicts. It's typically only used with stoplight-
> controlled
> intersections. Check out this video if you're unfamiliar with their
> use:
> http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/how-to-use-a-bike-box/
>
> Steve Jorgensen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Sears"
> To: "OBRA list list"
> Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane
>
>
>> Thanks for the pictures. After viewing them, I don't understand the
>> use of
>> the bike box. If you're over on the right in the bike lane, why
>> (and how)
>> would you move 6 feet or so to the left to be in the box while
>> stopped,
>> when you just have to move back to the right into the lane as soon
>> as the
>> light changes?
>>
>> --Doug Sears
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jonathan Maus"
>> To: "OBRA list list"
>> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:17 PM
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane
>>
>>
>> Today, the city of Portland made good on a promise to try and make
>> our
>> roads safer after the two tragedies last October.
>>
>> here are some of the first photos of the new bike box and colored
>> lane. This one is at SE Hawthorne and 7th and is the first of 14
>> similar intersection treatments.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/2pfeup
>>
>> (note: the actual bike box has not been filled in with green paint
>> yet...that is expected to be finished on monday).
>>
>> cheers,
>> --Jonathan Maus
>>

Jerry Powell
USAC Level 1 Coach
1926 SW Madison St
Portland, OR 97205

503 222 7173
503 799 7823 (cellular)

jpowell@spiritone.com


David Auker

2008-03-16





Doug Sears wrote:


(...)I don't understand the use of 

the bike box. If you're over on the right in the bike lane, why (and how)
would you move 6 feet or so to the left to be in the box while stopped,
when you just have to move back to the right into the lane as soon as the
light changes?

--Doug Sears





========================



I feel much the same way...however, it looks like that is the plan: the
bikes get very visible by being in front of traffic:



http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=eghbh



(You're going to be "in front" anyway, but it also might be a
place for "overspill" of riders in case of too many to fit in the
single bike lane.)  It seems slightly excessive...I see it as doing two
things:


  1. making cycling safer ...and attractive to more riders (very good!)

  2. pissing off auto drivers that cyclists are getting a bit more
    than their fair share of the road.


All in all, the City Of Portland is to be commended for thinking of our
safety!



-David



========================



----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Maus" <jonathan@bikeportland.org>
To: "OBRA list list" <obra@list.obra.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:17 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane

Today, the city of Portland made good on a promise to try and make our
roads safer after the two tragedies last October.

here are some of the first photos of the new bike box and colored
lane. This one is at SE Hawthorne and 7th and is the first of 14
similar intersection treatments.

http://tinyurl.com/2pfeup

(note: the actual bike box has not been filled in with green paint
yet...that is expected to be finished on monday).

cheers,
--Jonathan
_____________________
Jonathan Maus
Editor, BikePortland.org
http://www.BikePortland.org
News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
jonathan@bikeportland.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org





Steve and Alli

2008-03-16

It's really to get cyclist's seen and out in front of stopped cars, to help
prevent the "right hook" crash which is one of the most prevalent urban
car-bike conflicts. It's typically only used with stoplight-controlled
intersections. Check out this video if you're unfamiliar with their use:
http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/how-to-use-a-bike-box/

Steve Jorgensen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Sears"
To: "OBRA list list"
Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane

> Thanks for the pictures. After viewing them, I don't understand the use of
> the bike box. If you're over on the right in the bike lane, why (and how)
> would you move 6 feet or so to the left to be in the box while stopped,
> when you just have to move back to the right into the lane as soon as the
> light changes?
>
> --Doug Sears
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Maus"
> To: "OBRA list list"
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:17 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane
>
>
> Today, the city of Portland made good on a promise to try and make our
> roads safer after the two tragedies last October.
>
> here are some of the first photos of the new bike box and colored
> lane. This one is at SE Hawthorne and 7th and is the first of 14
> similar intersection treatments.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2pfeup
>
> (note: the actual bike box has not been filled in with green paint
> yet...that is expected to be finished on monday).
>
> cheers,
> --Jonathan
> _____________________
> Jonathan Maus
> Editor, BikePortland.org
> http://www.BikePortland.org
> News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
> jonathan@bikeportland.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Doug Sears

2008-03-16

Thanks for the pictures. After viewing them, I don't understand the use of
the bike box. If you're over on the right in the bike lane, why (and how)
would you move 6 feet or so to the left to be in the box while stopped,
when you just have to move back to the right into the lane as soon as the
light changes?

--Doug Sears

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Maus"
To: "OBRA list list"
Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:17 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Portland's new bike box/green bike lane

Today, the city of Portland made good on a promise to try and make our
roads safer after the two tragedies last October.

here are some of the first photos of the new bike box and colored
lane. This one is at SE Hawthorne and 7th and is the first of 14
similar intersection treatments.

http://tinyurl.com/2pfeup

(note: the actual bike box has not been filled in with green paint
yet...that is expected to be finished on monday).

cheers,
--Jonathan
_____________________
Jonathan Maus
Editor, BikePortland.org
http://www.BikePortland.org
News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
jonathan@bikeportland.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Jonathan Maus

2008-03-15

Today, the city of Portland made good on a promise to try and make our
roads safer after the two tragedies last October.

here are some of the first photos of the new bike box and colored
lane. This one is at SE Hawthorne and 7th and is the first of 14
similar intersection treatments.

http://tinyurl.com/2pfeup

(note: the actual bike box has not been filled in with green paint
yet...that is expected to be finished on monday).

cheers,
--Jonathan
_____________________
Jonathan Maus
Editor, BikePortland.org
http://www.BikePortland.org
News Tipline/Cell: (503) 706-8804
jonathan@bikeportland.org