Ron and Dorothy Strasser

I do not participate in this event and accept your first hand experience as I accept the previous two posts. I agree to an extent that "the littering is on the folks that do it", but the organizer needs to take responsibility for final clean-up/repair etc. Yes animals do run all over the woods, but they can do it without the destruction we humans are capable of when done for "our convenience". I love mountain biking and think it can be done in a very low impact manner that helps people get out in the beautiful areas hard to see. But... I have seen trails torn apart and even disregarded by other riders that are blowing off the trails with total disregard for the damage done. This is not so bad when it is taking place in an area that is heavily used (specifically for racing or heavy recreation... like the ski bowl area for example) and repaired on a regular basis. The destructive behavior is being encouraged by the mountain bike industry because they are producing more and more bikes that are meant to go "over or through" almost any type of obstacle. They are like mini Hummers. A bull in a china shop. When this type of behavior and equipment is used in areas set aside for "Big" hits or whatever one calls it... that is great. But people (even not on bikes) that are out of control out in the woods can do alot of damage. It will never be stopped, but like you being onboard with your X-Dog events, I am on board with trying to not have a huge negative impact out in the woods. Please do not think I am attacking you or X-Dog. I just think we need to respect all these areas out there. I believe the plants and creatures out there need to have a place to live that is not constantly shrinking. This is my view. We can have places to play and still maintain places for other life to continue to exist.
thanks for understanding
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: David Diviney
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Your experience with X-Dog Events?

It is what it is and I like it. The races are fairly low tech and simple. Part racing, part running and riding around in the woods. He's not OBRA (hyper-organized and by the book), and he doesn't charge $150 for a sprint triathlon. Simple races with beer and split pea soup. His races appeal to me because no else puts on the kind of races he does. No damage done yesterday. Running in the woods is not bad, animals do it all the time. Hagg Lake is no worse for the wear and people got to get out on a rainy day and get some exercise. If people were littering, it's on them. I don't know about the salmon spawning grounds. He's got a solid following and I'm in it.

Chad wrote:
X-Dog is a poorly run organization that used to do a marathon and triathlon
out in the Gorge before ODOT and City of Hood River refused to permit their
events anymore due to a number of infractions and bounced permit checks.
For more info on the type of support and organization check out the
following link on feedback from the last Gorge Marathon run by this
organizer http://www.marathonguide.com/races/racedetails.cfm?MIDD=733050605

Chad

----- Original Message -----
From: "Will"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Your experience with X-Dog Events?

>I just participated in my second (and FINAL) event with X-Dog Events. Has
>anyone else ever participated in any of their events?
>
> This last summer, someone on the OBRA list posted their concern about the
> lack of consideration for the environment with regards to an unnamed event
> organization (which was obviously X-Dog). The post was about how a
> scrambling course went right through protected Salmon spawning grounds and
> such...without the proper notification and permits.
>
> Yesterday's race seemed to take everything anyone of us know or have
> learned about preserving trails and leaving no trace on our surroundings
> completely out the window. Let's just say there was a lot of "encouraged"
> traffic in sensitive/no-trail areas and very little care taken to keep
> from widening already existing trails.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> -will
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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David Diviney

Huh? I didn't know what you were referring to when you said preserving trails and leaving no trace. Ever been to cross or MTB race? They do way more rather temporary damage than any X Dog race. There was no environmental issue with yesterday's race. Years and years of more highly attended OBRA races have left 100x the temporary "trace" that yesterday's event did. You are way off base attacking the event. Ever done a MTB race in Oregon? Chances are you got lost in the woods somewhere on Mt Hood? It happens all the time and the distances are rarely as accurate as you seem to require for your race fee. The organizer will, and did, tell the racers that the distance is approximate. It's an off road race, get used to it. What was unsafe? This may be a bad thing to say, but most early season OBRA MTB races have way more potential danger than a lap around Hagg Lake. Go do Mudslinger and you can re-write this email and replace X Dog with OBRA.

I have friends who do sustainability consulting for athletic events. Yes, such a thing exists. Pretty sure they would not have had a problem with the race.


Will wrote:
I think it's a little flippant and ignorant to say that if "others littered" and "animals do it all the time" then a race organizer/decent-human being putting on an event should take into account their impact.

The environmental issue(s) I addressed are the tip of the iceberg. I'd love to confidently show up to an event and (1) know that the distance advertised is the distance I'll be racing, (2) racers won't be running head-on into other competitors, (3) all competitors will cover the same distance because the course length, route and direction are clearly marked, (4) courses and race times are adjusted when unsafe conditions are present, etc...

The original post last summer about the infractions in the Mt Hood National forest have to do more with how much harder it will be for other (more well-organized) groups to apply for permits. Ever find yourself in Washington Park or on the Wildwood when a biker (clearly forbidden on the trails) comes tearing down the hillside making their own trail and further driving a wedge between those on their bikes and those not on their bikes?

Let's remember we're part of the "bigger picture" before we start saying things like, "I didn't do it, so it why should I care?"

-will

Subject: Re: Your experience with X-Dog Events?
Date: 03/31/2008 05:17 PM
From: David Diviney
It is what it is and I like it. The races are fairly low tech and simple. Part racing, part running and riding around in the woods. He's not OBRA (hyper-organized and by the book), and he doesn't charge $150 for a sprint triathlon. Simple races with beer and split pea soup. His races appeal to me because no else puts on the kind of races he does. No damage done yesterday. Running in the woods is not bad, animals do it all the time. Hagg Lake is no worse for the wear and people got to get out on a rainy day and get some exercise. If people were littering, it's on them. I don't know about the salmon spawning grounds. He's got a solid following and I'm in it.

Chad wrote:
X-Dog is a poorly run organization that used to do a marathon and triathlon
out in the Gorge before ODOT and City of Hood River refused to permit their
events anymore due to a number of infractions and bounced permit checks.
For more info on the type of support and organization check out the
following link on feedback from the last Gorge Marathon run by this
organizer http://www.marathonguide.com/races/racedetails.cfm?MIDD=733050605
Chad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Your experience with X-Dog Events?
>I just participated in my second (and FINAL) event with X-Dog Events. Has
>anyone else ever participated in any of their events?
>
> This last summer, someone on the OBRA list posted their concern about the
> lack of consideration for the environment with regards to an unnamed event
> organization (which was obviously X-Dog). The post was about how a
> scrambling course went right through protected Salmon spawning grounds and
> such...without the proper notification and permits.
>
> Yesterday's race seemed to take everything anyone of us know or have
> learned about preserving trails and leaving no trace on our surroundings
> completely out the window. Let's just say there was a lot of "encouraged"
> traffic in sensitive/no-trail areas and very little care taken to keep
> from widening already existing trails.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> -will
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Will

I think it's a little flippant and ignorant to say that if "others littered" and "animals do it all the time" then a race organizer/decent-human being putting on an event should take into account their impact.

The environmental issue(s) I addressed are the tip of the iceberg. I'd love to confidently show up to an event and (1) know that the distance advertised is the distance I'll be racing, (2) racers won't be running head-on into other competitors, (3) all competitors will cover the same distance because the course length, route and direction are clearly marked, (4) courses and race times are adjusted when unsafe conditions are present, etc...

The original post last summer about the infractions in the Mt Hood National forest have to do more with how much harder it will be for other (more well-organized) groups to apply for permits. Ever find yourself in Washington Park or on the Wildwood when a biker (clearly forbidden on the trails) comes tearing down the hillside making their own trail and further driving a wedge between those on their bikes and those not on their bikes?

Let's remember we're part of the "bigger picture" before we start saying things like, "I didn't do it, so it why should I care?"

-will

Subject: Re: Your experience with X-Dog Events?
Date: 03/31/2008 05:17 PM
From: David Diviney
It is what it is and I like it. The races are fairly low tech and simple. Part racing, part running and riding around in the woods. He's not OBRA (hyper-organized and by the book), and he doesn't charge $150 for a sprint triathlon. Simple races with beer and split pea soup. His races appeal to me because no else puts on the kind of races he does. No damage done yesterday. Running in the woods is not bad, animals do it all the time. Hagg Lake is no worse for the wear and people got to get out on a rainy day and get some exercise. If people were littering, it's on them. I don't know about the salmon spawning grounds. He's got a solid following and I'm in it.

Chad wrote:
X-Dog is a poorly run organization that used to do a marathon and triathlon
out in the Gorge before ODOT and City of Hood River refused to permit their
events anymore due to a number of infractions and bounced permit checks.
For more info on the type of support and organization check out the
following link on feedback from the last Gorge Marathon run by this
organizer http://www.marathonguide.com/races/racedetails.cfm?MIDD=733050605
Chad
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Your experience with X-Dog Events?
>I just participated in my second (and FINAL) event with X-Dog Events. Has
>anyone else ever participated in any of their events?
>
> This last summer, someone on the OBRA list posted their concern about the
> lack of consideration for the environment with regards to an unnamed event
> organization (which was obviously X-Dog). The post was about how a
> scrambling course went right through protected Salmon spawning grounds and
> such...without the proper notification and permits.
>
> Yesterday's race seemed to take everything anyone of us know or have
> learned about preserving trails and leaving no trace on our surroundings
> completely out the window. Let's just say there was a lot of "encouraged"
> traffic in sensitive/no-trail areas and very little care taken to keep
> from widening already existing trails.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> -will
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

David Diviney

It is what it is and I like it. The races are fairly low tech and simple. Part racing, part running and riding around in the woods. He's not OBRA (hyper-organized and by the book), and he doesn't charge $150 for a sprint triathlon. Simple races with beer and split pea soup. His races appeal to me because no else puts on the kind of races he does. No damage done yesterday. Running in the woods is not bad, animals do it all the time. Hagg Lake is no worse for the wear and people got to get out on a rainy day and get some exercise. If people were littering, it's on them. I don't know about the salmon spawning grounds. He's got a solid following and I'm in it.



Chad wrote:
X-Dog is a poorly run organization that used to do a marathon and triathlon
out in the Gorge before ODOT and City of Hood River refused to permit their
events anymore due to a number of infractions and bounced permit checks.
For more info on the type of support and organization check out the
following link on feedback from the last Gorge Marathon run by this
organizer http://www.marathonguide.com/races/racedetails.cfm?MIDD=733050605

Chad

----- Original Message -----
From: "Will"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Your experience with X-Dog Events?

>I just participated in my second (and FINAL) event with X-Dog Events. Has
>anyone else ever participated in any of their events?
>
> This last summer, someone on the OBRA list posted their concern about the
> lack of consideration for the environment with regards to an unnamed event
> organization (which was obviously X-Dog). The post was about how a
> scrambling course went right through protected Salmon spawning grounds and
> such...without the proper notification and permits.
>
> Yesterday's race seemed to take everything anyone of us know or have
> learned about preserving trails and leaving no trace on our surroundings
> completely out the window. Let's just say there was a lot of "encouraged"
> traffic in sensitive/no-trail areas and very little care taken to keep
> from widening already existing trails.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> -will
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends.

Chad

X-Dog is a poorly run organization that used to do a marathon and triathlon
out in the Gorge before ODOT and City of Hood River refused to permit their
events anymore due to a number of infractions and bounced permit checks.
For more info on the type of support and organization check out the
following link on feedback from the last Gorge Marathon run by this
organizer http://www.marathonguide.com/races/racedetails.cfm?MIDD=733050605

Chad

----- Original Message -----
From: "Will"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Your experience with X-Dog Events?

>I just participated in my second (and FINAL) event with X-Dog Events. Has
>anyone else ever participated in any of their events?
>
> This last summer, someone on the OBRA list posted their concern about the
> lack of consideration for the environment with regards to an unnamed event
> organization (which was obviously X-Dog). The post was about how a
> scrambling course went right through protected Salmon spawning grounds and
> such...without the proper notification and permits.
>
> Yesterday's race seemed to take everything anyone of us know or have
> learned about preserving trails and leaving no trace on our surroundings
> completely out the window. Let's just say there was a lot of "encouraged"
> traffic in sensitive/no-trail areas and very little care taken to keep
> from widening already existing trails.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> -will
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Will

I just participated in my second (and FINAL) event with X-Dog Events. Has anyone else ever participated in any of their events?

This last summer, someone on the OBRA list posted their concern about the lack of consideration for the environment with regards to an unnamed event organization (which was obviously X-Dog). The post was about how a scrambling course went right through protected Salmon spawning grounds and such...without the proper notification and permits.

Yesterday's race seemed to take everything anyone of us know or have learned about preserving trails and leaving no trace on our surroundings completely out the window. Let's just say there was a lot of "encouraged" traffic in sensitive/no-trail areas and very little care taken to keep from widening already existing trails.

Your thoughts?

-will