Karleta Reierson

Well said!!!!
________________________________
> From: cycleone23@hotmail.com
> To: qconant@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 20:19:16 -0700
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint, and Portland Velo.
>
>
> Yes, I have to agree that we digress. Racing will always have its frustrations as well as challenges. I think those of us with any experience will readily admit that every category has its share of wheel suckers and sandbaggers. The elite category is probably the only group that consistently attacks and keeps the pace high enough to ride the weaker riders off the back. Whether it's because we are not willing, due to reduced athletic ability that seems to come with aging, or because we have decided that winning requires sitting in as long as possible, most of the Masters riders are simply not that aggressive. The younger and less experienced Cat 5's are still trying to figure out what their strengths are and how to best utilize them. Knowing how far one can maintain a sprint effort only comes with experience. I feel that being aggressive is what allows a rider to fully understand their limits. And you might actually make a break or even win!
>
> Positioning is critical going into the sprint, and not everyone is going to be able to make it into the top ten before the sprint starts. But, unless you are willing to work hard enough to get there, you don't deserve to win anyway. Every week, there are guys who will wait until they reach the magic "200" mark before they pour it on. That effort should start well before the 200 meter mark. By then it's simply too late. But that doesn't mean attacking at 400 either. It's a matter of positioning and winding up until sprinting is just the next natural progression. Opening the road earlier doesn't change that fact.
> Mike Manning
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:38:49 -0700
>> From: qconant@gmail.com
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint, and Portland Velo.
>>
>> Ok. All this finger pointing is kinda lame.
>>
>> Personally, I've found PV riders are always willing to jump in the mix, help out, and work together. They're always willing to share the work, and race with class. I've never had a truely negative experience from them while racing.
>>
>> It sucks being a solo rider and having a larger team or two try and controll the race. It's fruterating as hell. In the end, if you're smart, that experience as a solo rider will most likely make you a better racer.
>>
>> now on to....
>>
>> I don't think openeing the road before 200m would make anything safer to begin with. You'd just have more people with more space to get reckless in. Wide roads may make it easier to get around when you're cruising in the low to mid 20's, but when the pace picks up it strings out anyways, and one lane is plenty.
>>
>> As far as moving up is concerned. yeah, it sucks when there's not movement up front and the pace drops, or it gets hard to manouver around. But that's just the way it goes sometimes. After a season or two I think most people feel comfortable enough to ride between riders safely. Practice it on a group ride sometime. Some perceptions of what's dangerous and what's not change with experience, and comfort.
>> _______________________________________________
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>> obra@list.obra.org
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>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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r r

Why must anyone that mentions or suggest any sort of change automatically becomes ostrosive (yes this is misspelled, but I'm too tired to figure it out right now and spell check is being cool) and criticized in OBRA land. Why not embrace the fact that we all think differently, and when someone thinks outside the box, to just think about it and consider it rather than instantly par-take in scrutinizing and attacking the person who is just merely throwing out a thought to just ponder over. It is really sad to see. Our OBRA is grand, making it probably the best state to race in. But nothing is ever perfect, and if someone steps up with an idea, it would benefit us all if its just merely considered. Maybe if one idea would be talked about in a non-bias, debatable manner, it would encourage more people to voice their ideas to be considered. Yes, a democracy in sense. But with people constantly being attacked and ridiculed on this chat, it makes it hard for anyone to even gain to courage to ask a simple question in fear of the wrath that will be released upon them. This is not an attack, so please do not right any sort of negative or attacking response back. Like we learned in elementary school, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. Sometimes silence can be the strongest response.

Thank you all for your time

From: bikexcr@hotmail.com
To: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:40:46 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint, and Portland Velo.

Yes, yes they are. Is PIR not a race on the road? And if you watch any race on TV, its the pretty close to the same as PIR. And in some ways, having it narrow destroys such phenomenal spectacles of athleticism such as Robbie McEwin flatting in the final k's, not at the front, and using his team to come around the field and sprint to victory at the last second in stage one of TDF. Granted the TDF and OBRA is like comparing apples and oranges (so please dont go off on that tangent because i just confessed to the difference).
But in the end...just having longer, wide finish stretch would be nice. Just like having the entire road for the entire race would be sweet, but will never happen at this level of racing. I mean, if it were such as you say, pro races would stay one lane as well, since you should be in the front at to begin with, but it dont work that way.

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:26:46 -0700
From: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint, and Portland Velo.

The issue seems to be that many of us don't do enough road racing. I don't anymore, but use too in the midwest . If I wanted a chance at top ten in a field sprint i would start moving
up at least 10 miles from the finish, this is not an exaggeration if large fields of skilled pack riders. It was hard to move up, usually
could only do it at corners or if someone attacked and things opened
up and then you had to jam faster than everyone else, and then once you were up front, you had to be assertive, and attack occasionally just to
stay.

In a real road race, ie POC, if the pack is bunched and your 2 k from the line and not in the first 3 or 4 lines, you don't stand a chance, ok slight maybe only if someone jumps soon and things open (i would usually be the guy sitting in 3rd line praying someone would jump things would open and soon). If you come up on 500 m and still bunched, and not in the first two maybe three lines, you really don't stand a chance even if your a great sprinter.

Pros coming with lead out trains, thats not really controlling the pack, rather its power and speed and everyone trying to stay with or trying to get by with their own line.

PIR finishing tactics are not on the same planet as road racing finish tactics.

----- Original
Message ----
From: Quenton Conant
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:38:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint, and Portland Velo.

Ok. All this finger pointing is kinda lame.

Personally, I've found PV riders are always willing to jump in the mix, help out, and work together. They're always willing to share the work, and race with class. I've never had a truely negative experience from them while racing.

It sucks being a solo rider and having a larger team or two try and controll the race. It's fruterating as hell. In the end, if you're smart, that experience as a solo rider will most likely make you a better racer.

now on to....

I don't think openeing the road before 200m would make anything safer to begin with. You'd just have more people with more space to get reckless in. Wide roads may make it easier to get around when you're cruising in the low to mid 20's, but when the pace picks up it strings out anyways, and one lane is plenty.

As far as moving up is concerned. yeah, it sucks when there's not movement up front and the pace drops,
or it gets hard to manouver around. But that's just the way it goes sometimes. After a season or two I think most people feel comfortable enough to ride between riders safely. Practice it on a group ride sometime. Some perceptions of what's dangerous and what's not change with experience, and comfort.
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OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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r r

Yes, yes they are. Is PIR not a race on the road? And if you watch any race on TV, its the pretty close to the same as PIR. And in some ways, having it narrow destroys such phenomenal spectacles of athleticism such as Robbie McEwin flatting in the final k's, not at the front, and using his team to come around the field and sprint to victory at the last second in stage one of TDF. Granted the TDF and OBRA is like comparing apples and oranges (so please dont go off on that tangent because i just confessed to the difference).
But in the end...just having longer, wide finish stretch would be nice. Just like having the entire road for the entire race would be sweet, but will never happen at this level of racing. I mean, if it were such as you say, pro races would stay one lane as well, since you should be in the front at to begin with, but it dont work that way.

Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 21:26:46 -0700
From: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint, and Portland Velo.

The issue seems to be that many of us don't do enough road racing. I don't anymore, but use too in the midwest . If I wanted a chance at top ten in a field sprint i would start moving
up at least 10 miles from the finish, this is not an exaggeration if large fields of skilled pack riders. It was hard to move up, usually
could only do it at corners or if someone attacked and things opened
up and then you had to jam faster than everyone else, and then once you were up front, you had to be assertive, and attack occasionally just to
stay.

In a real road race, ie POC, if the pack is bunched and your 2 k from the line and not in the first 3 or 4 lines, you don't stand a chance, ok slight maybe only if someone jumps soon and things open (i would usually be the guy sitting in 3rd line praying someone would jump things would open and soon). If you come up on 500 m and still bunched, and not in the first two maybe three lines, you really don't stand a chance even if your a great sprinter.

Pros coming with lead out trains, thats not really controlling the pack, rather its power and speed and everyone trying to stay with or trying to get by with their own line.

PIR finishing tactics are not on the same planet as road racing finish tactics.

----- Original
Message ----
From: Quenton Conant
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:38:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint, and Portland Velo.

Ok. All this finger pointing is kinda lame.

Personally, I've found PV riders are always willing to jump in the mix, help out, and work together. They're always willing to share the work, and race with class. I've never had a truely negative experience from them while racing.

It sucks being a solo rider and having a larger team or two try and controll the race. It's fruterating as hell. In the end, if you're smart, that experience as a solo rider will most likely make you a better racer.

now on to....

I don't think openeing the road before 200m would make anything safer to begin with. You'd just have more people with more space to get reckless in. Wide roads may make it easier to get around when you're cruising in the low to mid 20's, but when the pace picks up it strings out anyways, and one lane is plenty.

As far as moving up is concerned. yeah, it sucks when there's not movement up front and the pace drops,
or it gets hard to manouver around. But that's just the way it goes sometimes. After a season or two I think most people feel comfortable enough to ride between riders safely. Practice it on a group ride sometime. Some perceptions of what's dangerous and what's not change with experience, and comfort.
_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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john

The issue seems to be that many of us don't do enough road racing. I don't anymore, but use too in the midwest . If I wanted a chance at top ten in a field sprint i would start movingup at least 10 miles from the finish, this is not an exaggeration if large fields of skilled pack riders. It was hard to move up, usuallycould only do it at corners or if someone attacked and things openedup and then you had to jam faster than everyone else, and then once you were up front, you had to be assertive, and attack occasionally just tostay.

In a real road race, ie POC, if the pack is bunched and your 2 k from the line and not in the first 3 or 4 lines, you don't stand a chance, ok slight maybe only if someone jumps soon and things open (i would usually be the guy sitting in 3rd line praying someone would jump things would open and soon). If you come up on 500 m and still bunched, and not in the first two maybe three lines, you really don't stand a chance even if your a great sprinter.

Pros coming with lead out trains, thats not really controlling the pack, rather its power and speed and everyone trying to stay with or trying to get by with their own line.

PIR finishing tactics are not on the same planet as road racing finish tactics.

----- Original Message ----
From: Quenton Conant
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:38:49 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint, and Portland Velo.

Ok. All this finger pointing is kinda lame.

Personally, I've found PV riders are always willing to jump in the mix, help out, and work together. They're always willing to share the work, and race with class. I've never had a truely negative experience from them while racing.

It sucks being a solo rider and having a larger team or two try and controll the race. It's fruterating as hell. In the end, if you're smart, that experience as a solo rider will most likely make you a better racer.

now on to....

I don't think openeing the road before 200m would make anything safer to begin with. You'd just have more people with more space to get reckless in. Wide roads may make it easier to get around when you're cruising in the low to mid 20's, but when the pace picks up it strings out anyways, and one lane is plenty.

As far as moving up is concerned. yeah, it sucks when there's not movement up front and the pace drops, or it gets hard to manouver around. But that's just the way it goes sometimes. After a season or two I think most people feel comfortable enough to ride between riders safely. Practice it on a group ride sometime. Some perceptions of what's dangerous and what's not change with experience, and comfort.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

J.Michael Manning

Yes, I have to agree that we digress.
Racing will always have its frustrations as well as challenges. I think
those of us with any experience will readily admit that every category
has its share of wheel suckers and sandbaggers. The elite category is
probably the only group that consistently attacks and keeps the pace
high enough to ride the weaker riders off the back. Whether it's
because we are not willing, due to reduced athletic ability that seems
to come with aging, or because we have decided that winning requires
sitting in as long as possible, most of the Masters riders are simply
not that aggressive. The younger and less experienced Cat 5's are still
trying to figure out what their strengths are and how to best utilize
them. Knowing how far one can maintain a sprint effort only comes with
experience. I feel that being aggressive is what allows a rider to
fully understand their limits. And you might actually make a break or
even win!

Positioning is critical going into the sprint, and not
everyone is going to be able to make it into the top ten before the
sprint starts. But, unless you are willing to work hard enough to get
there, you don't deserve to win anyway. Every week, there are guys who
will wait until they reach the magic "200" mark before they pour it on.
That effort should start well before the 200 meter mark. By then it's
simply too late. But that doesn't mean attacking at 400 either. It's a
matter of positioning and winding up until sprinting is just the next
natural progression. Opening the road earlier doesn't change that fact.
Mike Manning

> Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:38:49 -0700
> From: qconant@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Sprint, and Portland Velo.
>
> Ok. All this finger pointing is kinda lame.
>
> Personally, I've found PV riders are always willing to jump in the mix, help out, and work together. They're always willing to share the work, and race with class. I've never had a truely negative experience from them while racing.
>
> It sucks being a solo rider and having a larger team or two try and controll the race. It's fruterating as hell. In the end, if you're smart, that experience as a solo rider will most likely make you a better racer.
>
> now on to....
>
> I don't think openeing the road before 200m would make anything safer to begin with. You'd just have more people with more space to get reckless in. Wide roads may make it easier to get around when you're cruising in the low to mid 20's, but when the pace picks up it strings out anyways, and one lane is plenty.
>
> As far as moving up is concerned. yeah, it sucks when there's not movement up front and the pace drops, or it gets hard to manouver around. But that's just the way it goes sometimes. After a season or two I think most people feel comfortable enough to ride between riders safely. Practice it on a group ride sometime. Some perceptions of what's dangerous and what's not change with experience, and comfort.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Quenton Conant

Ok. All this finger pointing is kinda lame.

Personally, I've found PV riders are always willing to jump in the mix, help out, and work together. They're always willing to share the work, and race with class. I've never had a truely negative experience from them while racing.

It sucks being a solo rider and having a larger team or two try and controll the race. It's fruterating as hell. In the end, if you're smart, that experience as a solo rider will most likely make you a better racer.

now on to....

I don't think openeing the road before 200m would make anything safer to begin with. You'd just have more people with more space to get reckless in. Wide roads may make it easier to get around when you're cruising in the low to mid 20's, but when the pace picks up it strings out anyways, and one lane is plenty.

As far as moving up is concerned. yeah, it sucks when there's not movement up front and the pace drops, or it gets hard to manouver around. But that's just the way it goes sometimes. After a season or two I think most people feel comfortable enough to ride between riders safely. Practice it on a group ride sometime. Some perceptions of what's dangerous and what's not change with experience, and comfort.