Jeff Fuchs

I am one of those cat. 3's that could race master's 40+. Last year I raced 40+ all year. This year it seems like Master's 1/2/3 fields are significantly smaller.

My results are similar in both categories 2007 vs 2008. This year I'm racing Cat. 3's in part because the 40+ 1/2/3 fields are too small to qualify for upgrade points. If I am going to race hard and if I'm fortunate to place well, I'd like it to count toward upgrading. I also want to race in larger fields that are more consistent in size.

I'd like to see Master's racing return to 35+. I like the idea of 1/2/3 and 4/5 fields. I think we'd have larger faster races.

I'd like to see OBRA specify Master's categories. It's not that much different than mandating who gets to race in which category (1,2,3,4, or 5). Having OBRA specify Masters categories would allow racers to plan ahead and build teams around a set category such as Masters 35+ 1/2/3.

Finally, I think it would be helpful if the winning times for each race/category were posted with the results. I think this would help people understand the speed differences between the different categories. Based on 2007 and 2008 races, masters 1/2/3 and cat. 3's race at very similar speeds (the Master's races have been slightly faster).

Cherry Pie 2007 Masters - 22.3 MPH
Cherry Pie 2008 Cat 3 - 22.1 MPH

BB #1 (CW) 2007 Masters 23.1
BB #2 (CCW) 2007 Masters 22.6
BB #3 (CW) 2007 Masters 23.7

BB #2 (CW) 2008 Cat. 3 23.6
BB #3 (CW) 2008 Cat. 3 23.2

-Jeff Fuchs
Hutch's of Bend

Mike Murray

There is plenty of racing for 30-39 year old riders. It is in the regular
Senior category races. The mean age of an OBRA member is 36. On the
extended list of 8158 people that have been members in the past few year
there are 2289 people between 30 and 39. Between 18 and 29 there are only
1790. When you are riding in a Senior race generally less than half of the
field will be under 30. Adding an 30-39 field with no category designation
will only make category separated fields smaller, critically so in Cat 1-2,
and not really add any total numbers to participation.

Adding Masters Cat 4-5 fields, at any age separation, would increase
participation as well as provide needed decompression for the over populated
Cat 3,4,5 fields.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Karsten Hagen
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 18:29 PM
To: Greg Bruce; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Observation on field sizes at Masters Races so far
this year

OK

There's a lot of racing out there for masters 40+, but very little for
30-39. When I raced in Wisconsin, the masters 30-39 fields were
consistently full, fast and fun. The races were shorter to accommodate the
fact that many in the field worked long hours, tried to be good parents and
thus found extended training sessions impossible. Plus, most importantly,
we were getting older and slower. I don't think I'm the only guy in his
30's in Oregon trying to balance work, family and his addic....um....racing.

I understand adding yet another category to local crits, road races, etc. is
a major headache, but consider this example: Banana Belt's final cat 3
sprint craziness would have been a lot less crowded, slow and dangerous if
the field was much smaller. I'd guess half that field could have raced a
masters 30-39 category. The danger is, of course, that we could soon have
separate masters 32-34 right handed vs. left handed fields further divided
into astrological signs and eye color, etc....but I don't think that's
ultimately necessary.

I'm just saying that, in general, a large group of masters men could have
their own viable racing field pretty consistently all season long.

Karsten Hagen

On 4/1/08 5:09 PM, "Greg Bruce" wrote:

Since OBRA land is such a grace filled, open, accepting and tolerant society
of cycling enthusiasts, I thought I would offer up an observation. NOTE, I
am making an observation only and will leave it to others to offer up their
take on why it might be so.

Here it is: Taking a look at the bigger early season road races so far this
year (Cherry Pie, Banana Belt Series, Piece of Cake), I have noticed that
the inclusion of a Masters 40+ cat 4,5 field has resulted in huge fields for
that category. In contrast, the Masters 1,2,3 fields have been pretty sparse
by comparison.

I then look at a race like Willamette Valley SR, where the Masters category
is open to all 40+ racers regardless of category. In other words, there is
no break out of category. If you are a Cat 5 Masters racer, you will be
fighting it out with Cat 1 Masters racers and vice versa. Now, I am unable
to look up the most recent count, but at last count a couple days ago, there
were like 13 people pre-registered to race Masters 40+ at Willamette.
Clearly, more people will show up and race, but there probably won't be the
60-80 participants that there could be.

So, what to make of all of this. Maybe nothing at all. A few things are
clear though. There are a lot of Masters 4,5 racers out there and they
clearly enjoy racing their bikes. OK, I am going beyond observation here and
inferring some things-actually, I may be opining a bit---

These Masters 4,5 racers might even enjoy racing their bikes with other
people of their category and fitness level and when that opportunity
presents itself, they show up. When lumped together with people who are so
much faster, they might tend to decide to take that week off from racing.
Maybe? Or Maybe it is just a coincidence?
Two years ago at the Willamette Valley SR, they broke the Masters up into 2
different races: a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5-There were 49 people who registered for
the 3,4,5 Masters race that year. Interesting, I think.

Frankly, I am not sure what to make of it all. Some of the folks on my team
who are Cat 3 Masters are kind of stuck in the middle. We have been opting
to race with the open Cat 3's of late, in order to be a part of a bigger
field of racers, as opposed to feeling like we are traveling great distances
to participate in a race field that is more like a glorified group ride (in
terms of size).

I am not suggesting any change to anything, because I am not sure there is
anything that needs fixing. I am just sharing an observation. But, if I were
a race promoter/organizer, I might find this data interesting and worth
considering.

With the April Fools and Sprint dialogue dissipating, I thought we might all
enjoy another potential topic of discussion.

Lastly, at Cherry Pie and the Banana Belts, there have been an additional
20-23 racers in the Masters 50+ category. So, we seem to be getting 80-100
participants showing up for all of the different Masters Categories at the
early season races.

Has there been any consideration to standardizing the Masters Categories for
all the races? Some races have Masters 40+ open; some have 3 different
categories (1,2,3-4,5 and 50+), some like King's Valley only have Masters
3,4,5; 2 years ago, Willamette had a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5. Silverton has done a
Masters 35+ cat 3,4 (2005) and a Masters 40+ Cat 3,4 (2006) of late. Others
opt to lump everyone together, but score them separately. It is all over the
place: JUST AN OBSERVATION.

Anyway...

Event: 2008 Masters 4,5 # of Participant finishers Masters 1,2,3 # of
Participant finishers
Cherry Pie 61 23
Banana Belt 48 28
Banana Belt 2 42 20
Banana Belt 3 41 25
Piece of Cake 55 25

Greg Bruce

Hutch's- Bend, OR

_____

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Dave Burnard

Shame on all those fast but short hour working, bad parenting racers
out there in OBRA land, training long and hard while their children
and careers suffer, and then going crazy in the open category sprints!
I say make them re-stain Chris Horner's deck. ;)

On Apr 1, 2008, at 6:29 PM, Karsten Hagen wrote:

> OK
>
> There’s a lot of racing out there for masters 40+, but very little
> for 30-39. When I raced in Wisconsin, the masters 30-39 fields were
> consistently full, fast and fun. The races were shorter to
> accommodate the fact that many in the field worked long hours, tried
> to be good parents and thus found extended training sessions
> impossible. Plus, most importantly, we were getting older and
> slower. I don’t think I’m the only guy in his 30’s in Oregon trying
> to balance work, family and his addic....um....racing.
>
> I understand adding yet another category to local crits, road races,
> etc. is a major headache, but consider this example: Banana Belt’s
> final cat 3 sprint craziness would have been a lot less crowded,
> slow and dangerous if the field was much smaller. I’d guess half
> that field could have raced a masters 30-39 category. The danger
> is, of course, that we could soon have separate masters 32-34 right
> handed vs. left handed fields further divided into astrological
> signs and eye color, etc....but I don’t think that’s ultimately
> necessary.
>
> I’m just saying that, in general, a large group of masters men could
> have their own viable racing field pretty consistently all season
> long.
>
> Karsten Hagen
>
>
> On 4/1/08 5:09 PM, "Greg Bruce" wrote:
>
>> Since OBRA land is such a grace filled, open, accepting and
>> tolerant society of cycling enthusiasts, I thought I would offer up
>> an observation. NOTE, I am making an observation only and will
>> leave it to others to offer up their take on why it might be so.
>>
>> Here it is: Taking a look at the bigger early season road races so
>> far this year (Cherry Pie, Banana Belt Series, Piece of Cake), I
>> have noticed that the inclusion of a Masters 40+ cat 4,5 field has
>> resulted in huge fields for that category. In contrast, the Masters
>> 1,2,3 fields have been pretty sparse by comparison.
>>
>> I then look at a race like Willamette Valley SR, where the Masters
>> category is open to all 40+ racers regardless of category. In other
>> words, there is no break out of category. If you are a Cat 5
>> Masters racer, you will be fighting it out with Cat 1 Masters
>> racers and vice versa. Now, I am unable to look up the most recent
>> count, but at last count a couple days ago, there were like 13
>> people pre-registered to race Masters 40+ at Willamette. Clearly,
>> more people will show up and race, but there probably won’t be the
>> 60-80 participants that there could be.
>>
>> So, what to make of all of this. Maybe nothing at all. A few things
>> are clear though. There are a lot of Masters 4,5 racers out there
>> and they clearly enjoy racing their bikes. OK, I am going beyond
>> observation here and inferring some things—actually, I may be
>> opining a bit---
>>
>> These Masters 4,5 racers might even enjoy racing their bikes with
>> other people of their category and fitness level and when that
>> opportunity presents itself, they show up. When lumped together
>> with people who are so much faster, they might tend to decide to
>> take that week off from racing. Maybe? Or Maybe it is just a
>> coincidence?
>> Two years ago at the Willamette Valley SR, they broke the Masters
>> up into 2 different races: a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5—There were 49 people
>> who registered for the 3,4,5 Masters race that year. Interesting, I
>> think.
>>
>> Frankly, I am not sure what to make of it all. Some of the folks on
>> my team who are Cat 3 Masters are kind of stuck in the middle. We
>> have been opting to race with the open Cat 3’s of late, in order to
>> be a part of a bigger field of racers, as opposed to feeling like
>> we are traveling great distances to participate in a race field
>> that is more like a glorified group ride (in terms of size).
>>
>> I am not suggesting any change to anything, because I am not sure
>> there is anything that needs fixing. I am just sharing an
>> observation. But, if I were a race promoter/organizer, I might find
>> this data interesting and worth considering.
>>
>> With the April Fools and Sprint dialogue dissipating, I thought we
>> might all enjoy another potential topic of discussion.
>>
>> Lastly, at Cherry Pie and the Banana Belts, there have been an
>> additional 20-23 racers in the Masters 50+ category. So, we seem to
>> be getting 80-100 participants showing up for all of the different
>> Masters Categories at the early season races.
>>
>> Has there been any consideration to standardizing the Masters
>> Categories for all the races? Some races have Masters 40+ open;
>> some have 3 different categories (1,2,3—4,5 and 50+), some like
>> King’s Valley only have Masters 3,4,5; 2 years ago, Willamette had
>> a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5. Silverton has done a Masters 35+ cat 3,4
>> (2005) and a Masters 40+ Cat 3,4 (2006) of late. Others opt to lump
>> everyone together, but score them separately. It is all over the
>> place: JUST AN OBSERVATION.
>>
>> Anyway…..
>>
>>
>>
>> Event: 2008 Masters 4,5 # of Participant finishers Masters
>> 1,2,3 # of Participant finishers
>> Cherry Pie 61 23
>> Banana Belt 48 28
>> Banana Belt 2 42 20
>> Banana Belt 3 41 25
>> Piece of Cake 55 25
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Greg Bruce
>>
>> Hutch’s- Bend, OR
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Greg Bruce

Karsten,

Thanks for the feedback!

I think a 30-39 category would only dilute things further, which is what
we are trying to correct.

Another suggestion I have heard is this:

Masters 35+ 1,2,3 and Masters 35+ 4,5 for all races.

Two different Masters categories to accommodate the skill and fitness
levels (1,2,3 and 4,5) and secondly, lower the age to 35 to increase the
overall number of potential participants: (particularly for the 1,2,3
field).

We are seeing that there is no problem at all getting field
participation for Masters 4,5-but the 1,2,3 field is getting smaller
with the separation of all Masters into 3 different groups. So, by
lowering the age a bit (but not too far), maybe we can add some numbers
to the 1,2,3 field. Racers who are 50+ would have their choice of racing
their category in this scenario: 1,2,3 or 4,5. This would move those
20-23 current participants in the 50+ category into one or the other of
the 2 fields and boost them both.

Just as I was getting ready to hit send on this e-mail, I just noticed
Mike Murray's post. I totally get his/your take on the
anti-standardization/free market stance. Veru Oregonian :-)

I am a VP for a very large (116 country) non profit organization and
from an operational standpoint for us, standardization has been a key
ingredient to synergy and success. No biggie. Like Mike says, if
organizers/promoters analyze data and the market, they may all come to a
place of standardization independently, without being coerced or forced
into it.

Anyway, I am not advocating a 35+ 1,2,3 and 35+ 4,5 categories
necessarily. I just throw it out there as a suggestion that I heard that
may or may not be worthy of consideration.

Thanks for gentlemanly and womanly dialogue! Very refreshing!

Greg

______________

Dr. Greg Bruce

PFM

Vice President- Western US

Tel: 541-948-3051

Fax: 541-382-4895

________________________________

From: Karsten Hagen [mailto:hagenkt@mac.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 6:29 PM
To: Greg Bruce; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Observation on field sizes at Masters Races so
far this year

OK

There's a lot of racing out there for masters 40+, but very little for
30-39. When I raced in Wisconsin, the masters 30-39 fields were
consistently full, fast and fun. The races were shorter to accommodate
the fact that many in the field worked long hours, tried to be good
parents and thus found extended training sessions impossible. Plus,
most importantly, we were getting older and slower. I don't think I'm
the only guy in his 30's in Oregon trying to balance work, family and
his addic....um....racing.

I understand adding yet another category to local crits, road races,
etc. is a major headache, but consider this example: Banana Belt's
final cat 3 sprint craziness would have been a lot less crowded, slow
and dangerous if the field was much smaller. I'd guess half that field
could have raced a masters 30-39 category. The danger is, of course,
that we could soon have separate masters 32-34 right handed vs. left
handed fields further divided into astrological signs and eye color,
etc....but I don't think that's ultimately necessary.

I'm just saying that, in general, a large group of masters men could
have their own viable racing field pretty consistently all season long.

Karsten Hagen

On 4/1/08 5:09 PM, "Greg Bruce" wrote:

Since OBRA land is such a grace filled, open, accepting and tolerant
society of cycling enthusiasts, I thought I would offer up an
observation. NOTE, I am making an observation only and will leave it to
others to offer up their take on why it might be so.

Here it is: Taking a look at the bigger early season road races so far
this year (Cherry Pie, Banana Belt Series, Piece of Cake), I have
noticed that the inclusion of a Masters 40+ cat 4,5 field has resulted
in huge fields for that category. In contrast, the Masters 1,2,3 fields
have been pretty sparse by comparison.

I then look at a race like Willamette Valley SR, where the Masters
category is open to all 40+ racers regardless of category. In other
words, there is no break out of category. If you are a Cat 5 Masters
racer, you will be fighting it out with Cat 1 Masters racers and vice
versa. Now, I am unable to look up the most recent count, but at last
count a couple days ago, there were like 13 people pre-registered to
race Masters 40+ at Willamette. Clearly, more people will show up and
race, but there probably won't be the 60-80 participants that there
could be.

So, what to make of all of this. Maybe nothing at all. A few things are
clear though. There are a lot of Masters 4,5 racers out there and they
clearly enjoy racing their bikes. OK, I am going beyond observation here
and inferring some things-actually, I may be opining a bit---

These Masters 4,5 racers might even enjoy racing their bikes with other
people of their category and fitness level and when that opportunity
presents itself, they show up. When lumped together with people who are
so much faster, they might tend to decide to take that week off from
racing. Maybe? Or Maybe it is just a coincidence?
Two years ago at the Willamette Valley SR, they broke the Masters up
into 2 different races: a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5-There were 49 people who
registered for the 3,4,5 Masters race that year. Interesting, I think.

Frankly, I am not sure what to make of it all. Some of the folks on my
team who are Cat 3 Masters are kind of stuck in the middle. We have been
opting to race with the open Cat 3's of late, in order to be a part of a
bigger field of racers, as opposed to feeling like we are traveling
great distances to participate in a race field that is more like a
glorified group ride (in terms of size).

I am not suggesting any change to anything, because I am not sure there
is anything that needs fixing. I am just sharing an observation. But, if
I were a race promoter/organizer, I might find this data interesting and
worth considering.

With the April Fools and Sprint dialogue dissipating, I thought we might
all enjoy another potential topic of discussion.

Lastly, at Cherry Pie and the Banana Belts, there have been an
additional 20-23 racers in the Masters 50+ category. So, we seem to be
getting 80-100 participants showing up for all of the different Masters
Categories at the early season races.

Has there been any consideration to standardizing the Masters Categories
for all the races? Some races have Masters 40+ open; some have 3
different categories (1,2,3-4,5 and 50+), some like King's Valley only
have Masters 3,4,5; 2 years ago, Willamette had a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5.
Silverton has done a Masters 35+ cat 3,4 (2005) and a Masters 40+ Cat
3,4 (2006) of late. Others opt to lump everyone together, but score them
separately. It is all over the place: JUST AN OBSERVATION.

Anyway.....

Event: 2008 Masters 4,5 # of Participant finishers Masters 1,2,3 #
of Participant finishers
Cherry Pie 61 23
Banana Belt 48 28
Banana Belt 2 42 20
Banana Belt 3 41 25
Piece of Cake 55 25

Greg Bruce

Hutch's- Bend, OR

________________________________

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Karsten Hagen

OK

There¹s a lot of racing out there for masters 40+, but very little for
30-39. When I raced in Wisconsin, the masters 30-39 fields were
consistently full, fast and fun. The races were shorter to accommodate the
fact that many in the field worked long hours, tried to be good parents and
thus found extended training sessions impossible. Plus, most importantly,
we were getting older and slower. I don¹t think I¹m the only guy in his
30¹s in Oregon trying to balance work, family and his addic....um....racing.

I understand adding yet another category to local crits, road races, etc. is
a major headache, but consider this example: Banana Belt¹s final cat 3
sprint craziness would have been a lot less crowded, slow and dangerous if
the field was much smaller. I¹d guess half that field could have raced a
masters 30-39 category. The danger is, of course, that we could soon have
separate masters 32-34 right handed vs. left handed fields further divided
into astrological signs and eye color, etc....but I don¹t think that¹s
ultimately necessary.

I¹m just saying that, in general, a large group of masters men could have
their own viable racing field pretty consistently all season long.

Karsten Hagen

On 4/1/08 5:09 PM, "Greg Bruce" wrote:

> Since OBRA land is such a grace filled, open, accepting and tolerant society
> of cycling enthusiasts, I thought I would offer up an observation. NOTE, I am
> making an observation only and will leave it to others to offer up their take
> on why it might be so.
>
> Here it is: Taking a look at the bigger early season road races so far this
> year (Cherry Pie, Banana Belt Series, Piece of Cake), I have noticed that the
> inclusion of a Masters 40+ cat 4,5 field has resulted in huge fields for that
> category. In contrast, the Masters 1,2,3 fields have been pretty sparse by
> comparison.
>
> I then look at a race like Willamette Valley SR, where the Masters category is
> open to all 40+ racers regardless of category. In other words, there is no
> break out of category. If you are a Cat 5 Masters racer, you will be fighting
> it out with Cat 1 Masters racers and vice versa. Now, I am unable to look up
> the most recent count, but at last count a couple days ago, there were like 13
> people pre-registered to race Masters 40+ at Willamette. Clearly, more people
> will show up and race, but there probably won¹t be the 60-80 participants that
> there could be.
>
> So, what to make of all of this. Maybe nothing at all. A few things are clear
> though. There are a lot of Masters 4,5 racers out there and they clearly enjoy
> racing their bikes. OK, I am going beyond observation here and inferring some
> things?actually, I may be opining a bit---
>
> These Masters 4,5 racers might even enjoy racing their bikes with other people
> of their category and fitness level and when that opportunity presents itself,
> they show up. When lumped together with people who are so much faster, they
> might tend to decide to take that week off from racing. Maybe? Or Maybe it is
> just a coincidence?
> Two years ago at the Willamette Valley SR, they broke the Masters up into 2
> different races: a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5?There were 49 people who registered for
> the 3,4,5 Masters race that year. Interesting, I think.
>
> Frankly, I am not sure what to make of it all. Some of the folks on my team
> who are Cat 3 Masters are kind of stuck in the middle. We have been opting to
> race with the open Cat 3¹s of late, in order to be a part of a bigger field of
> racers, as opposed to feeling like we are traveling great distances to
> participate in a race field that is more like a glorified group ride (in terms
> of size).
>
> I am not suggesting any change to anything, because I am not sure there is
> anything that needs fixing. I am just sharing an observation. But, if I were a
> race promoter/organizer, I might find this data interesting and worth
> considering.
>
> With the April Fools and Sprint dialogue dissipating, I thought we might all
> enjoy another potential topic of discussion.
>
> Lastly, at Cherry Pie and the Banana Belts, there have been an additional
> 20-23 racers in the Masters 50+ category. So, we seem to be getting 80-100
> participants showing up for all of the different Masters Categories at the
> early season races.
>
> Has there been any consideration to standardizing the Masters Categories for
> all the races? Some races have Masters 40+ open; some have 3 different
> categories (1,2,3?4,5 and 50+), some like King¹s Valley only have Masters
> 3,4,5; 2 years ago, Willamette had a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5. Silverton has done a
> Masters 35+ cat 3,4 (2005) and a Masters 40+ Cat 3,4 (2006) of late. Others
> opt to lump everyone together, but score them separately. It is all over the
> place: JUST AN OBSERVATION.
>
> Anyway?..
>
>
>
> Event: 2008 Masters 4,5 # of Participant finishers Masters 1,2,3 # of
> Participant finishers
> Cherry Pie 61 23
> Banana Belt 48 28
> Banana Belt 2 42 20
> Banana Belt 3 41 25
> Piece of Cake 55 25
>
>
>
>
> Greg Bruce
>
> Hutch¹s- Bend, OR
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Greg Bruce

Since OBRA land is such a grace filled, open, accepting and tolerant
society of cycling enthusiasts, I thought I would offer up an
observation. NOTE, I am making an observation only and will leave it to
others to offer up their take on why it might be so.

Here it is: Taking a look at the bigger early season road races so far
this year (Cherry Pie, Banana Belt Series, Piece of Cake), I have
noticed that the inclusion of a Masters 40+ cat 4,5 field has resulted
in huge fields for that category. In contrast, the Masters 1,2,3 fields
have been pretty sparse by comparison.

I then look at a race like Willamette Valley SR, where the Masters
category is open to all 40+ racers regardless of category. In other
words, there is no break out of category. If you are a Cat 5 Masters
racer, you will be fighting it out with Cat 1 Masters racers and vice
versa. Now, I am unable to look up the most recent count, but at last
count a couple days ago, there were like 13 people pre-registered to
race Masters 40+ at Willamette. Clearly, more people will show up and
race, but there probably won't be the 60-80 participants that there
could be.

So, what to make of all of this. Maybe nothing at all. A few things are
clear though. There are a lot of Masters 4,5 racers out there and they
clearly enjoy racing their bikes. OK, I am going beyond observation here
and inferring some things-actually, I may be opining a bit---

These Masters 4,5 racers might even enjoy racing their bikes with other
people of their category and fitness level and when that opportunity
presents itself, they show up. When lumped together with people who are
so much faster, they might tend to decide to take that week off from
racing. Maybe? Or Maybe it is just a coincidence?

Two years ago at the Willamette Valley SR, they broke the Masters up
into 2 different races: a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5-There were 49 people who
registered for the 3,4,5 Masters race that year. Interesting, I think.

Frankly, I am not sure what to make of it all. Some of the folks on my
team who are Cat 3 Masters are kind of stuck in the middle. We have been
opting to race with the open Cat 3's of late, in order to be a part of a
bigger field of racers, as opposed to feeling like we are traveling
great distances to participate in a race field that is more like a
glorified group ride (in terms of size).

I am not suggesting any change to anything, because I am not sure there
is anything that needs fixing. I am just sharing an observation. But, if
I were a race promoter/organizer, I might find this data interesting and
worth considering.

With the April Fools and Sprint dialogue dissipating, I thought we might
all enjoy another potential topic of discussion.

Lastly, at Cherry Pie and the Banana Belts, there have been an
additional 20-23 racers in the Masters 50+ category. So, we seem to be
getting 80-100 participants showing up for all of the different Masters
Categories at the early season races.

Has there been any consideration to standardizing the Masters Categories
for all the races? Some races have Masters 40+ open; some have 3
different categories (1,2,3-4,5 and 50+), some like King's Valley only
have Masters 3,4,5; 2 years ago, Willamette had a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5.
Silverton has done a Masters 35+ cat 3,4 (2005) and a Masters 40+ Cat
3,4 (2006) of late. Others opt to lump everyone together, but score them
separately. It is all over the place: JUST AN OBSERVATION.

Anyway.....

Event: 2008

Masters 4,5

# of Participant finishers

Masters 1,2,3

# of Participant finishers

Cherry Pie

61

23

Banana Belt

48

28

Banana Belt 2

42

20

Banana Belt 3

41

25

Piece of Cake

55

25

Greg Bruce

Hutch's- Bend, OR