Greg Bruce
Seems like this whole thread has gone way off topic from my original
posting, which had nothing to do with race speeds at all, but had
everything to do with race participation and finding a way to get more
people racing, more often, which I think is what all of us want to see
(particularly the race promoters, I would think). For those of you who
did not go back to see what started this whole conversation, but have
just been responding to the last few posts, here it is again, below.
This is great though-- It is like observing an internet based version of
the game "telephone"
Greg
Original POST:
TITLED: Observation on field sizes at Masters Races so far this year
Since OBRA land is such a grace filled, open, accepting and tolerant
society of cycling enthusiasts, I thought I would offer up an
observation. NOTE, I am making an observation only and will leave it to
others to offer up their take on why it might be so.
Here it is: Taking a look at the bigger early season road races so far
this year (Cherry Pie, Banana Belt Series, Piece of Cake), I have
noticed that the inclusion of a Masters 40+ cat 4,5 field has resulted
in huge fields for that category. In contrast, the Masters 1,2,3 fields
have been pretty sparse by comparison.
I then look at a race like Willamette Valley SR, where the Masters
category is open to all 40+ racers regardless of category. In other
words, there is no break out of category. If you are a Cat 5 Masters
racer, you will be fighting it out with Cat 1 Masters racers and vice
versa. Now, I am unable to look up the most recent count, but at last
count a couple days ago, there were like 13 people pre-registered to
race Masters 40+ at Willamette. Clearly, more people will show up and
race, but there probably won't be the 60-80 participants that there
could be.
So, what to make of all of this. Maybe nothing at all. A few things are
clear though. There are a lot of Masters 4,5 racers out there and they
clearly enjoy racing their bikes. OK, I am going beyond observation here
and inferring some things-actually, I may be opining a bit---
These Masters 4,5 racers might even enjoy racing their bikes with other
people of their category and fitness level and when that opportunity
presents itself, they show up. When lumped together with people who are
so much faster, they might tend to decide to take that week off from
racing. Maybe? Or Maybe it is just a coincidence?
Two years ago at the Willamette Valley SR, they broke the Masters up
into 2 different races: a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5-There were 49 people who
registered for the 3,4,5 Masters race that year. Interesting, I think.
Frankly, I am not sure what to make of it all. Some of the folks on my
team who are Cat 3 Masters are kind of stuck in the middle. We have been
opting to race with the open Cat 3's of late, in order to be a part of a
bigger field of racers, as opposed to feeling like we are traveling
great distances to participate in a race field that is more like a
glorified group ride (in terms of size).
I am not suggesting any change to anything, because I am not sure there
is anything that needs fixing. I am just sharing an observation. But, if
I were a race promoter/organizer, I might find this data interesting and
worth considering.
With the April Fools and Sprint dialogue dissipating, I thought we might
all enjoy another potential topic of discussion.
Lastly, at Cherry Pie and the Banana Belts, there have been an
additional 20-23 racers in the Masters 50+ category. So, we seem to be
getting 80-100 participants showing up for all of the different Masters
Categories at the early season races.
Has there been any consideration to standardizing the Masters Categories
for all the races? Some races have Masters 40+ open; some have 3
different categories (1,2,3-4,5 and 50+), some like King's Valley only
have Masters 3,4,5; 2 years ago, Willamette had a 1,2,3 and a 3,4,5.
Silverton has done a Masters 35+ cat 3,4 (2005) and a Masters 40+ Cat
3,4 (2006) of late. Others opt to lump everyone together, but score them
separately. It is all over the place: JUST AN OBSERVATION.
Anyway.....
Event: 2008
Masters 4,5
# of Participant finishers
Masters 1,2,3
# of Participant finishers
Cherry Pie
61
23
Banana Belt
48
28
Banana Belt 2
42
20
Banana Belt 3
41
25
Piece of Cake
55
25
______________
Dr. Greg Bruce
PFM
Vice President- Western US
Tel: 541-948-3051
Fax: 541-382-4895
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Tim Schauer
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 11:07 AM
To: OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Master's categories
Okay,
I can't help myself...I toss my two cents...and a little humor for good
measure.
As Cat 3 Master, who will turn 40 this year (October), I can finally
race in the 40+ masters races again. When I turned 35, OBRA ran a lot of
35+ masters races, so I got to jump in the Masters races for the first
time then too. The fields were bigger in the 35+ then than the 40+ now,
I thought compared to the Cat 3's at the time I wouldn't say it was
better or worse, faster or slower, harder or easier just different. Then
OBRA went to mostly 40+ Master races and I went back to the Cat 3
racing. Again, Now in the 40+ field I would say Masters racing is just
different, not faster or harder or slower or easier, just different.
Personally, I like it. Some of the races have been overall slower at
times than I expected, but not easier. I would however, characterize the
Masters races as more tactical, less of a strictly physical battle.
There is more a feeling of a chess match with some extreme physical
stress at times, but not all the time. My Cat 3 racing experience last
year (for
me) was more a physical challenge to hang on all the time, with
difficulty to even navigate to the front, and therefore less tactical
opportunity (for me). I guess I have finally come the reality that
racing my bike is really racing against myself and my own limitations
(tactical, physical, or technical skill level) and looking to improve
all of them when I choose a field to race in. No matter what field I
race in. And, it is nice to have choices!
If you want to compare the Speed of the Masters 40+ versus the
speed/fitness of the Masters 35+ populations, one only has to look at
the Time Trial results. The 40-49 cats are consistently faster than the
30-39 fields. Let's not even talk about the speed of some of those 50+
guys, Holy cow! I can't wait until I'm 50+ so I can be that fast!! And
another thing...some of these so called cat 1/2 racers racing down with
the masters is kind of funny, since most every Master's road race I've
done this year has a whole group of guys who have already raced the
longer Cat 1/2 race before the masters race!! How can we complain about
racing against a Cat 1/2 guy in the masters 1/2/3 race who has already
raced 70 miles just before his race against some of us Cat3 Masters only
racing one race per day?
Obviously....Age doesn't necessarily mean slower....or less fit.
So,...Any talk of a Masters 40+, Cat 3, Clydesdale category at any of
the upcoming road races? Huh? Anyone?
-Tim "16th at POC Masters 40+ means no points!" Schauer
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Fuchs
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 7:28 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Master's categories
Gary,
It's not the speed of the field. Cat. 3's races and Master's 1/2/3 races
are basically the same speed. Its the size of the Master's fields. I'd
rather finish in 10th out of 80 people than 5th of 20. Larger fields are
more fun. That being said, Master's races tend to be more tactical when
there are enough riders to make it a road race.
There are plenty of fast master's racer in OBRA, but the Master's fields
this year have been really small. I was really disappointed this year
when I showed up to Cherry pie and there were 28 racers in the master's
1/2/3 category. As a result I raced cat. 3's at the BB's and I will race
cat. 3's at Willamette.
If the races were 35+ I bet there would be larger fields.
-Jeff
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