Kevin Hedahl

Matthew et al,

You are correct about the stopping law. In Oregon, cessation of forward
motion is considered to be the stop. This is not true in other states, so if
you are traveling be sure to read the rules of the road.

If anyone is interested, the BTA & bike lawyer Ray Thomas offer free legal
clinics about every month. The next clinic will be May 14th. RSVP here:
http://www.bta4bikes.org/resources/legal.php

Also, you can call the Wa. Cty Operation & Maintenance number to ask for
road repairs: (503) 846-ROAD
In Portland, use these numbers:

-

stoplight sensor doesn't seem to detect bicycles *503.823.2925,
press 1*
-

pavement and pothole repair needed on bike lane/route *503-823-BUMP*
-

bike lane stripes that have faded/disappeared *503-823-1700*

Happy riding,

Tricia Satterlee (via Kevin Hedahl's email...)

2008/4/2 Matthew Rider :

> While we don't legally (I think) need to put a foot down, I've started
> doing that more and more often as it seems that motorists don't know if I'll
> be running the sign or not when I'm riding slowly or track standing while
> waiting for them. I figure it's worth the extra hassle of unclipping to keep
> from upsetting a motorist.
>
> I understand that there's a resource to call when sensors at lights aren't
> sensitive enough to detect a bicycle. Anyone know what that contact info is
> for Washington County, there are a couple of lights I regularly end up
> running because I can't trigger them on my bike.
>
> Rider
>
>
>
> 2008/4/2 Jack Bennett :
>
> > My experience w/ motorists at stop signs is 99% as follows: I stop,
> > stand, and make eye contact; they motion me through, usually even when it's
> > their right of way.
> >
> > Stop lights? Just stop.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> > *Michael O'Hair * wrote:
> >
> > The bottom line is simple. You run a stop sign and ticket is $250 or
> > so. You also piss people off. I'm hearing a lot of negative comments from
> > normally rational people about the "bike boxes" that are being put in.
> >
> > Use the whole stop sign/signal thing to work on your track stand.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .................................
> > Jack Bennett
> > bennett.jack@yahoo.com
> > .................................
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
> > Total Access,
> > No Cost.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Michael O'Hair

Do not EVER assume that eye contact or any other "body language" means a thing. I knew two motorcyclists who had the same experience: They came to a 4-way stop and had the right of way. Both made eye contact with a car driver. Both were run down. In both cases, the car driver said "I didn't see him."

Whether they were homicidal, careless, lying, or what ever, the car drivers weren't the ones hauled into the ER with massive trauma.

----- Original Message -----
From: Dan H
To: Jack Bennett ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 7:24 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Springtime

Technically, if someone yields their right of way and their foot slips, and they hit you, it's your fault. Don't fall for it, Make them take the right of way.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Bennett
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Springtime

My experience w/ motorists at stop signs is 99% as follows: I stop, stand, and make eye contact; they motion me through, usually even when it's their right of way.

Stop lights? Just stop.

Jack

Michael O'Hair wrote:
The bottom line is simple. You run a stop sign and ticket is $250 or so. You also piss people off. I'm hearing a lot of negative comments from normally rational people about the "bike boxes" that are being put in.

Use the whole stop sign/signal thing to work on your track stand.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

.................................
Jack Bennett
bennett.jack@yahoo.com
.................................

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Dan H

Technically, if someone yields their right of way and their foot slips, and they hit you, it's your fault. Don't fall for it, Make them take the right of way.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Bennett
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Springtime

My experience w/ motorists at stop signs is 99% as follows: I stop, stand, and make eye contact; they motion me through, usually even when it's their right of way.

Stop lights? Just stop.

Jack

Michael O'Hair wrote:
The bottom line is simple. You run a stop sign and ticket is $250 or so. You also piss people off. I'm hearing a lot of negative comments from normally rational people about the "bike boxes" that are being put in.

Use the whole stop sign/signal thing to work on your track stand.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

.................................
Jack Bennett
bennett.jack@yahoo.com
.................................

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jack Bennett

I see your point, but making eye contact when you're at a stand is
usually enough to let them know you're waiting for them to make the
next move.

Along these lines, I've noticed quite a few motorists who will not go
through an intersection when I'm approaching even if it's their right
of way. I believe they're expecting me to run the stop sign as they've
seen so many riders do before. When I actually stop (even w/out the
foot down), they're very pleasantly surprised, and usually happy to let
me proceed. I think it's a bad sign that, collectively, we've trained
motorists to expect us to disobey the law.

Jack

--- Matthew Rider wrote:

> While we don't legally (I think) need to put a foot down, I've
> started doing
> that more and more often as it seems that motorists don't know if
> I'll be
> running the sign or not when I'm riding slowly or track standing
> while
> waiting for them. I figure it's worth the extra hassle of unclipping
> to keep
> from upsetting a motorist.
>
> I understand that there's a resource to call when sensors at lights
> aren't
> sensitive enough to detect a bicycle. Anyone know what that contact
> info is
> for Washington County, there are a couple of lights I regularly end
> up
> running because I can't trigger them on my bike.
>
> Rider
>
>
>
> 2008/4/2 Jack Bennett :
>
> > My experience w/ motorists at stop signs is 99% as follows: I stop,
> stand,
> > and make eye contact; they motion me through, usually even when
> it's their
> > right of way.
> >
> > Stop lights? Just stop.
> >
> > Jack
> >
> >
> > *Michael O'Hair * wrote:
> >
> > The bottom line is simple. You run a stop sign and ticket is $250
> or
> > so. You also piss people off. I'm hearing a lot of negative
> comments from
> > normally rational people about the "bike boxes" that are being put
> in.
> >
> > Use the whole stop sign/signal thing to work on your track stand.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > .................................
> > Jack Bennett
> > bennett.jack@yahoo.com
> > .................................
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of
> Blockbuster
> > Total
>
Access,
> > No Cost.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
>

.................................
Jack Bennett
bennett.jack@yahoo.com
.................................

____________________________________________________________________________________
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com

Dan H

Not to mention it (traffic infractions) reflects badly on the sponsors who's names are emblazoned on said team kits.
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Cyclist
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Springtime

Thanks for bringing this up Kenji, I have also noticed a LOT of "OBRA-ites" blowing through stop signs and riding in-between cars (primarily downtown) on my daily commute from the far-east side of Portland and through downtown. How do I know they're OBRA-ites ? They're wearing their team kits. I know it's not just the racers that blow through the stop signs & lights but maybe we can improve our image a little if we start stopping. I've even had motorists let me go through before them when they see I'm stopping, they wave me through, so I know that a little extra effort goes a long way. Start seeing (& obeying) stop signs.

JD

On 4/2/08, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
Folks,

It's springtime and everyone wants to get out there and ride. Please
remember that when you are out there, your behavior reflects upon all
of us. Recently I received word of some OBRA-ites blowing through
stop signs. While it's not under my purview to make judgments on
this, I wanted to ask everyone to ride safely.

Thanks.

T. Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Matthew Rider

While we don't legally (I think) need to put a foot down, I've started doing
that more and more often as it seems that motorists don't know if I'll be
running the sign or not when I'm riding slowly or track standing while
waiting for them. I figure it's worth the extra hassle of unclipping to keep
from upsetting a motorist.

I understand that there's a resource to call when sensors at lights aren't
sensitive enough to detect a bicycle. Anyone know what that contact info is
for Washington County, there are a couple of lights I regularly end up
running because I can't trigger them on my bike.

Rider

2008/4/2 Jack Bennett :

> My experience w/ motorists at stop signs is 99% as follows: I stop, stand,
> and make eye contact; they motion me through, usually even when it's their
> right of way.
>
> Stop lights? Just stop.
>
> Jack
>
>
> *Michael O'Hair * wrote:
>
> The bottom line is simple. You run a stop sign and ticket is $250 or
> so. You also piss people off. I'm hearing a lot of negative comments from
> normally rational people about the "bike boxes" that are being put in.
>
> Use the whole stop sign/signal thing to work on your track stand.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> .................................
> Jack Bennett
> bennett.jack@yahoo.com
> .................................
>
> ------------------------------
> You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster
> Total Access,
> No Cost.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Jack Bennett

My experience w/ motorists at stop signs is 99% as follows: I stop, stand, and make eye contact; they motion me through, usually even when it's their right of way.

Stop lights? Just stop.

Jack

Michael O'Hair wrote: The bottom line is simple. You run a stop sign and ticket is $250 or so. You also piss people off. I'm hearing a lot of negative comments from normally rational people about the "bike boxes" that are being put in.

Use the whole stop sign/signal thing to work on your track stand.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

.................................
Jack Bennett
bennett.jack@yahoo.com
.................................

---------------------------------
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

Michael O'Hair

The bottom line is simple. You run a stop sign and ticket is $250 or so. You also piss people off. I'm hearing a lot of negative comments from normally rational people about the "bike boxes" that are being put in.

Use the whole stop sign/signal thing to work on your track stand.

Brian Engelen

Words of the day, "choices" and "Respect". Thanks Ron

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ron and Dorothy Strasser
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 2:03 PM
To: NW Cyclist; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Springtime

Good points. Bad choices by cyclists in full kits as well as any others of
course can have a huge NEGATIVE impact on the progress made to help us all
ride in an environment that is made more safe because more auto drivers
respect us. We are riding a wave of improving riding conditions that could
easily be reversed because of public image and thus different focus from
various government and community leaders. We cannot control other riders
behavior, but each of us can keep our interactions with traffic positive.

Thanks Kenji

ron

----- Original Message -----

From: NW Cyclist

To: obra@list.obra.org

Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 12:21 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Springtime

Thanks for bringing this up Kenji, I have also noticed a LOT of "OBRA-ites"
blowing through stop signs and riding in-between cars (primarily downtown)
on my daily commute from the far-east side of Portland and through downtown.
How do I know they're OBRA-ites ? They're wearing their team kits. I know
it's not just the racers that blow through the stop signs & lights but maybe
we can improve our image a little if we start stopping. I've even had
motorists let me go through before them when they see I'm stopping, they
wave me through, so I know that a little extra effort goes a long way.
Start seeing (& obeying) stop signs.

JD

On 4/2/08, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

Folks,

It's springtime and everyone wants to get out there and ride. Please
remember that when you are out there, your behavior reflects upon all
of us. Recently I received word of some OBRA-ites blowing through
stop signs. While it's not under my purview to make judgments on
this, I wanted to ask everyone to ride safely.

Thanks.

T. Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

Good points. Bad choices by cyclists in full kits as well as any others of course can have a huge NEGATIVE impact on the progress made to help us all ride in an environment that is made more safe because more auto drivers respect us. We are riding a wave of improving riding conditions that could easily be reversed because of public image and thus different focus from various government and community leaders. We cannot control other riders behavior, but each of us can keep our interactions with traffic positive.
Thanks Kenji
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Cyclist
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2008 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Springtime

Thanks for bringing this up Kenji, I have also noticed a LOT of "OBRA-ites" blowing through stop signs and riding in-between cars (primarily downtown) on my daily commute from the far-east side of Portland and through downtown. How do I know they're OBRA-ites ? They're wearing their team kits. I know it's not just the racers that blow through the stop signs & lights but maybe we can improve our image a little if we start stopping. I've even had motorists let me go through before them when they see I'm stopping, they wave me through, so I know that a little extra effort goes a long way. Start seeing (& obeying) stop signs.

JD

On 4/2/08, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
Folks,

It's springtime and everyone wants to get out there and ride. Please
remember that when you are out there, your behavior reflects upon all
of us. Recently I received word of some OBRA-ites blowing through
stop signs. While it's not under my purview to make judgments on
this, I wanted to ask everyone to ride safely.

Thanks.

T. Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

NW Cyclist

Thanks for bringing this up Kenji, I have also noticed a *LOT* of
"OBRA-ites" blowing through stop signs and riding in-between cars (primarily
downtown) on my daily commute from the far-east side of Portland and through
downtown. How do I know they're OBRA-ites ? They're wearing their team
kits. I know it's not just the racers that blow through the stop signs &
lights but maybe we can improve our image a little if we start stopping.
I've even had motorists let me go through before them when they see I'm
stopping, they wave me through, so I know that a little extra effort goes a
long way. Start seeing (& obeying) stop signs.

JD

On 4/2/08, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> It's springtime and everyone wants to get out there and ride. Please
> remember that when you are out there, your behavior reflects upon all
> of us. Recently I received word of some OBRA-ites blowing through
> stop signs. While it's not under my purview to make judgments on
> this, I wanted to ask everyone to ride safely.
>
> Thanks.
>
> T. Kenji Sugahara
> Executive Director
> Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
> 503-302-4935
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

T. Kenji Sugahara

Folks,

It's springtime and everyone wants to get out there and ride. Please
remember that when you are out there, your behavior reflects upon all
of us. Recently I received word of some OBRA-ites blowing through
stop signs. While it's not under my purview to make judgments on
this, I wanted to ask everyone to ride safely.

Thanks.

T. Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935