Matthew Klahn

Or, perhaps, people who have never lived outside of PDX, and don't
know what they have. In central Illinois, where I moved from last
year, I tried to fill up a race calendar my first year and made it to
more races than most racers from Champaign-Urbana: 6 whole races, all
of which were at least 2 hour drives (most were 3+). The fact that I
can _ride my bike_ 45 minutes to a race on every Tuesday and Monday
night for at least 4 months a year means I can get a ton of race
experience in a little bit of time and at nominal expense. Combine
that with the short track MTB series at PIR, and I'd say that we've
got a hell of a resource, and we owe that to the promoters who make
that all possible. I'm happy that they have a financial incentive to
keep that up, and I'll continue to support bike racing at PIR with my
entry fees.

Matthew Klahn

On Apr 29, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Jess Mace wrote:

> Please don't forget Jim Anderson who organizes Monday nights and is
> single handedly providing a venue to promote and support new women
> riders in the area...
> when other races are combining fields and having to negotiate through
> low female turnouts, Jim's races are going off each and every Monday
> night
> like clockwork..
>
> this is becoming a real stupid conversation started by (I'm guessing)
> new riders who have yet to fully appreciate what they have in PDX...
>
>
>
> Jess C. Mace, MPH
> Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
> for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
> Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
> Oregon Health & Science University
> 503.494.5886
>
>>>> "Joe Cipale" 4/29/2008 1:04 PM >>>
> I have known Jeff Mitchem (Promoter of Tues PIR) for, as he and I
> agreed, way too long. He was one of the leaders of the old Bike
> Gallery
> team in the early 90's when I was just a fat, slow beginning racer. I
> soon learned that I was completely out of my league with these guys,
> but
> he helped to steer me to Team Rose City as more in line with my
> abilities. Throughout all this time, Jeff has done an outstanding
> job of
> putting on events, nurturing new riders and doing what he can to
> improve
> racing in our little corner of the USA. Now that I am a fat, slow and
> old(er) racer, Jeff is still out there week after week.
>
> Many of us have cut or teeth (as well as lips, thighs, collarbones)
> out
> at PIR. It is a terrific venue and is a great course to learn the ins
> and outs of the sport. The teams change, riders come and go, but this
> event continues becuase of the hardwork of Jeff and the support of PIR
> and OBRA.
>
> Joe Cipale
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jess Mace

Please don't forget Jim Anderson who organizes Monday nights and is
single handedly providing a venue to promote and support new women
riders in the area...
when other races are combining fields and having to negotiate through
low female turnouts, Jim's races are going off each and every Monday
night
like clockwork..

this is becoming a real stupid conversation started by (I'm guessing)
new riders who have yet to fully appreciate what they have in PDX...

Jess C. Mace, MPH
Clinical Outcomes Research Coordinator
for Timothy Smith, MD, MPH
Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
Oregon Health & Science University
503.494.5886

>>> "Joe Cipale" 4/29/2008 1:04 PM >>>
I have known Jeff Mitchem (Promoter of Tues PIR) for, as he and I
agreed, way too long. He was one of the leaders of the old Bike Gallery
team in the early 90's when I was just a fat, slow beginning racer. I
soon learned that I was completely out of my league with these guys, but
he helped to steer me to Team Rose City as more in line with my
abilities. Throughout all this time, Jeff has done an outstanding job of
putting on events, nurturing new riders and doing what he can to improve
racing in our little corner of the USA. Now that I am a fat, slow and
old(er) racer, Jeff is still out there week after week.

Many of us have cut or teeth (as well as lips, thighs, collarbones) out
at PIR. It is a terrific venue and is a great course to learn the ins
and outs of the sport. The teams change, riders come and go, but this
event continues becuase of the hardwork of Jeff and the support of PIR
and OBRA.

Joe Cipale
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Monty Hill

All these comments are based on the supposition that +/- $1500(based on the previously submitted dumb math) is an enormous amount of pure profit. As I see it there are about +/-(5) people spending 3 hours to pick up the truck and do set up and breakdown for the race. These people if they were to be union paid would probable demand at least $100/hour x (5) people x (3) hours = $1500 (my own dumb math) I assume there are other costs that have not even been mentioned. Thankfully most of the these people donate their time so that we can afford to race.

In fact if I were running it I would propose raising the rate and having another porta john, hiring some cheerleaders and a band, maybe some of those blower trucks to dry off the track, like they have in NASCAR, oh and a pace car, pretzel stand and beer garden.

Oh forget all that $15 to go race around a track is a friggin' bargain, even if I always lose.

Joe Cipale

I have known Jeff Mitchem (Promoter of Tues PIR) for, as he and I agreed, way too long. He was one of the leaders of the old Bike Gallery team in the early 90's when I was just a fat, slow beginning racer. I soon learned that I was completely out of my league with these guys, but he helped to steer me to Team Rose City as more in line with my abilities. Throughout all this time, Jeff has done an outstanding job of putting on events, nurturing new riders and doing what he can to improve racing in our little corner of the USA. Now that I am a fat, slow and old(er) racer, Jeff is still out there week after week.

Many of us have cut or teeth (as well as lips, thighs, collarbones) out at PIR. It is a terrific venue and is a great course to learn the ins and outs of the sport. The teams change, riders come and go, but this event continues becuase of the hardwork of Jeff and the support of PIR and OBRA.

Joe Cipale

Peter Gutwald

Unfortunately, it seems like the American Way has turned away from working
hard into sitting back and complaining about those that DO work hard.
Besides the value of the event itself, these promoters are no doubt working
hard and their TIME is worth money. I also know that these are folks who
love the sport, which is why I see guys like Jeff Mitchem and Jim Anderson
out there racing the events as well. (How many of us have offered to take
the reins of an event like PIR or some other race, those who are willing to
promote and manage the entire process are few and far between.)

Obviously the success of races at venues like PIR, Mt. Tabor, the CMG
Criterium, etc... shows that a large number of us value the product that
they are providing. To get sidetracked by the voices of a few who feel that
someone is "earning" too much from their hard work is pointless. I, for one
count my lucky stars that we have these events and the people that are
dedicated to providing the racing. No one is FORCING any of us to race, you
have an option, if you think it's too expensive, or if you think that the
product sucks... DON'T PAY FOR IT!

I guess it is easier to sit back and complain though.

2008/4/29 T B :

> So now bicycle racing is only for the Rich? Sounds like a typical
> American.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:23:52 -0700
> From: kristinw@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Certainly for some people paying race fee after race fee adds up really
> fast, which is why I have much appreciated the ability to volunteer my time
> in exchange for a free race or two. I think most promoters seem willing to
> work with you if its that much of a hardship. Although if you have a (few)
> multi-thousand dollar bike(s), I think you can probably afford to pay a few
> hundred a year in race fees. Or you can just take up running, it's a lot
> cheaper.
>
> Although I do have to say.....8 miles??? Does that even count for points?
>
>
>
> Kristin
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Jeff Henderson wrote:
>
> This is an interesting discussion that used to annoy
> me to no end - because I am a race director and
> there's a lot of ignorance out there.
>
> No one is valuing the promoter's time. You can add up
> all of his costs, but I don't believe he shows up at
> the track Tuesday night and a race magically happens.
> He has to arrange for everything he pays for, as well
> as a hundred other things.
>
> I organize a duathlon (run-bike-run) on a race track
> in NY. When I first approached Watkins Glen
> International with the idea for the Fly by Night, I
> was told the track costs $7,000 per day, with a
> three-day minimum for weekends. Eventually, and with
> much time and effort invested, I obtained a compromise
> whereby my race would run in the evening, after the
> Porsche Clash, for a bargain fee of $1,500. That was
> four years ago, and last year was the first year I
> turned a profit. And my entry fee starts at $55.
>
> If you want to learn more about the finances involved,
> you might find this article interesting:
>
> http://www.flybynightdu.com/fly_by_night_opens_books.pdf
>
> You have choices. I don't question the $15 because the
> promoter has created something I very much enjoy. If
> the cost outweighs the enjoyment, I don't go.
>
> hope this helps,
> Jeff
>
> --- Jeff Tedder & Shari
> wrote:
>
> > All good points everyone is making....
> > Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or
> > Duathlon race...Spendy...
> > Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....
> > Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as
> > getting new women and men out racing that probably
> > would never try a road race because of being
> > intimidated....And now we have a great new surface
> > to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of
> > complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....
> >
> > Jeff Tedder
> > Hammer Nutrition Products
> > Solid Core Training
> > 503-246-2388
> > cell 503-473-7650
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kevin Hedahl
> > To: obra
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> >
> >
> > You are also forgetting officials fees in the
> > calculation, or did you think that obra officials
> > were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john
> > costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be
> > made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also
> > true that:
> >
> > a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to
> > a professional "job",
> >
> > b.. health insurance is not provided,
> >
> > c.. you don't get sick days,
> > d.. no 401k,
> >
> > e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.
> > Seriously, if you think the price is to high then
> > don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary
> > they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find
> > out how much work goes into planning and organizing
> > a race and never complain again.
> >
> > /kevin hedahl
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson
> > wrote:
> >
> > Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is
> > this a great country or what?
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > T B wrote:
> >
> > > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for
> > myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> > > PIR was a low attendance. According to the
> > numbers given and all, it
> > > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On
> > nights such as the Tuesday
> > > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar
> > profit for one race. That
> > > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to
> > profit when single day
> > > races struggle to break even. A weekly series
> > should focus on being
> > > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15
> > bucks. But it makes people
> > > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
> > can be squeezed into an
> > > ever tight budget.
> > >
> > > My math;
> > >
> > > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials =
> > Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> > > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders
> > (lets say 150) = 337.5
> > > dollars for insurance
> > > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50
> > dollars (which i have to
> > > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a
> > weekly basis. its actually
> > > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can
> > occur)
> > >
> > > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to
> > be a fair average to
> > > estimate if not a low average for the entire
> > season).
> > >
> > > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
> > >
> > > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit
> > for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> > > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job
> > ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> > > make an error in my math)
> > >
> > > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
> > >
> > > I just had to do the math just for s and g's
> > and out of boredom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com;
> > cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> > retraction
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
> > >
> > > Part of the problem is the expense.
> > > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to
> > rent. The truck rental
> > > is $50, the first aid person and the
> > officials all get paid. So I
> > > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is
> > $550 before the first
> > > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person
> > for the liability
> > > insurance and surcharges.
> > >
> > > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do
> > not use the truck and
> > > the race organizer is a first aid
> > provider, so the costs are much
> > > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for
> > juniors, adults pay $10.00.
> > >
> > > Do the math. If the race organizer doe
> > snot make a profit there
> > > will be no events for you to race.
> > >
> > > Candi
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> > Behalf Of *r r
> > > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> > > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> > > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> > retraction
> > >
> > > I am going to take this email as an
> > opportunity this jedi has been
> > > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15
> > bucks a shot every
> > > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a
> > weekly event. Unless PIR
> > > wants some ungodly amount to use the
> > venue, 15 almost seems like a
> > > drastically over priced for what it is.
> > Yes, i know you can buy a
> > > season pass, but some of us are not in
> > Portland for the entire PIR
> > > season, but want to do more than one PIR a
> > month. At least the
> > > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the
> > best deal is 5 bucks to
> > > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And
> > there are officials and
> > > everything there just like PIR, the only
> > possible difference is
> > > that PIR wants money for us being there.
> > But as far as i see it,
> > > there is no reason a weekly series race
> > should cost almost as much
> > > as other events that are only held once a
> > year.
> > >
> > > Just some of my thoughts and others that i
> > have gathered over time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> > retraction
> > > >
> > > > Cobra Kai would like to retract
> > comments. Flyer was read while
> > > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's
> > brown belt and he did
> >
> === message truncated ===>
> _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> www.runbikeswim.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Back to work after baby– how do you know when you're ready?
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Aaron Coker

It's actually quite simple. If you don't like the cost of the race then don't race. If you feel that a promoter is making too much money then take the time develop your own series and build it up over the years into a profitable venture. I don't understand how people can b**ch about the success someone has achieved through hard work and dedication. What kind of message does that send, be lazy and complain about someone's success? We should be thanking the promoters for taking the time to give us the opportunity to race. Who cares how much they make as long as we have a place to race.

-AC

mellierat@comcast.net

Let's not forget the obvious: Racers want to race!

I personally am very grateful to ALL that OBRA, promoters, organizers, sponsors, officials, racers, etc. do for the Oregon community. We can discuss $$$ until we're blue in the face, but it comes down to being part of a sport that has endless possibilities. One can race just in Oregon, out-of-state, and even out of the country!

Thank you to all that make steller racing in Oregon!
Melanie Rathe

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Craig Austin"

Wow, lots of energy is being used to help rein in the obscene profits of bike race promoters. If you want to write a letter about something, here's a subject.

Exxon Mobil earned more than $1,287 of profit for every second of 2007. Do THAT math.

And they announced today that they broke their record for profit in a quarter as well. By the way, to ease the pain they must be feeling, they also get large federal subsidies, paid for by you, me, and the OBRA race promoters. Now THAT's typical American.

-C

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of T B
Sent: Tue 4/29/2008 11:24 AM
To: Kristin; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

So now bicycle racing is only for the Rich? Sounds like a typical American.

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:23:52 -0700
From: kristinw@gmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

Certainly for some people paying race fee after race fee adds up really fast, which is why I have much appreciated the ability to volunteer my time in exchange for a free race or two. I think most promoters seem willing to work with you if its that much of a hardship. Although if you have a (few) multi-thousand dollar bike(s), I think you can probably afford to pay a few hundred a year in race fees. Or you can just take up running, it's a lot cheaper.

Although I do have to say.....8 miles??? Does that even count for points?

Kristin

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Jeff Henderson wrote:

This is an interesting discussion that used to annoy
me to no end - because I am a race director and
there's a lot of ignorance out there.

No one is valuing the promoter's time. You can add up
all of his costs, but I don't believe he shows up at
the track Tuesday night and a race magically happens.
He has to arrange for everything he pays for, as well
as a hundred other things.

I organize a duathlon (run-bike-run) on a race track
in NY. When I first approached Watkins Glen
International with the idea for the Fly by Night, I
was told the track costs $7,000 per day, with a
three-day minimum for weekends. Eventually, and with
much time and effort invested, I obtained a compromise
whereby my race would run in the evening, after the
Porsche Clash, for a bargain fee of $1,500. That was
four years ago, and last year was the first year I
turned a profit. And my entry fee starts at $55.

If you want to learn more about the finances involved,
you might find this article interesting:

http://www.flybynightdu.com/fly_by_night_opens_books.pdf

You have choices. I don't question the $15 because the
promoter has created something I very much enjoy. If
the cost outweighs the enjoyment, I don't go.

hope this helps,
Jeff

--- Jeff Tedder & Shari

wrote:

> All good points everyone is making....
> Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or
> Duathlon race...Spendy...
> Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....
> Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as
> getting new women and men out racing that probably
> would never try a road race because of being
> intimidated....And now we have a great new surface
> to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of
> complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....
>
> Jeff Tedder
> Hammer Nutrition Products
> Solid Core Training
> 503-246-2388
> cell 503-473-7650
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Hedahl
> To: obra
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
>
> You are also forgetting officials fees in the
> calculation, or did you think that obra officials
> were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john
> costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be
> made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also
> true that:
>

> a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to
> a professional "job",
>
> b.. health insurance is not provided,
>
> c.. you don't get sick days,
> d.. no 401k,
>
> e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.

> Seriously, if you think the price is to high then
> don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary
> they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find
> out how much work goes into planning and organizing
> a race and never complain again.
>
> /kevin hedahl
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson
> wrote:
>
> Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is
> this a great country or what?
>
> Rick
>
>
> T B wrote:
>
> > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for
> myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> > PIR was a low attendance. According to the
> numbers given and all, it
> > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On
> nights such as the Tuesday
> > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar
> profit for one race. That
> > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to
> profit when single day
> > races struggle to break even. A weekly series
> should focus on being
> > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15
> bucks. But it makes people
> > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
> can be squeezed into an
> > ever tight budget.
> >
> > My math;
> >
> > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials =
> Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders
> (lets say 150) = 337.5
> > dollars for insurance
> > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50
> dollars (which i have to
> > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a
> weekly basis. its actually
> > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can
> occur)
> >
> > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to
> be a fair average to
> > estimate if not a low average for the entire
> season).
> >
> > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
> >
> > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit
> for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job
> ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> > make an error in my math)
> >
> > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
> >
> > I just had to do the math just for s and g's
> and out of boredom
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com;
> cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
> >
> > Part of the problem is the expense.
> > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to
> rent. The truck rental
> > is $50, the first aid person and the
> officials all get paid. So I
> > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is
> $550 before the first
> > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person
> for the liability
> > insurance and surcharges.
> >
> > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do
> not use the truck and
> > the race organizer is a first aid
> provider, so the costs are much
> > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for
> juniors, adults pay $10.00.
> >
> > Do the math. If the race organizer doe
> snot make a profit there
> > will be no events for you to race.
> >
> > Candi
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *r r
> > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> >
> > I am going to take this email as an
> opportunity this jedi has been
> > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15
> bucks a shot every
> > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a
> weekly event. Unless PIR
> > wants some ungodly amount to use the
> venue, 15 almost seems like a
> > drastically over priced for what it is.
> Yes, i know you can buy a
> > season pass, but some of us are not in
> Portland for the entire PIR
> > season, but want to do more than one PIR a
> month. At least the
> > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the
> best deal is 5 bucks to
> > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And
> there are officials and
> > everything there just like PIR, the only
> possible difference is
> > that PIR wants money for us being there.
> But as far as i see it,
> > there is no reason a weekly series race
> should cost almost as much
> > as other events that are only held once a
> year.
> >
> > Just some of my thoughts and others that i
> have gathered over time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > >
> > > Cobra Kai would like to retract
> comments. Flyer was read while
> > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's
> brown belt and he did
>

=== message truncated ===>

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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

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Back to work after baby? how do you know when you?re ready?

Craig Austin

Wow, lots of energy is being used to help rein in the obscene profits of bike race promoters. If you want to write a letter about something, here's a subject.

Exxon Mobil earned more than $1,287 of profit for every second of 2007. Do THAT math.

And they announced today that they broke their record for profit in a quarter as well. By the way, to ease the pain they must be feeling, they also get large federal subsidies, paid for by you, me, and the OBRA race promoters. Now THAT's typical American.

-C

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of T B
Sent: Tue 4/29/2008 11:24 AM
To: Kristin; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

So now bicycle racing is only for the Rich? Sounds like a typical American.

________________________________

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:23:52 -0700
From: kristinw@gmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

Certainly for some people paying race fee after race fee adds up really fast, which is why I have much appreciated the ability to volunteer my time in exchange for a free race or two. I think most promoters seem willing to work with you if its that much of a hardship. Although if you have a (few) multi-thousand dollar bike(s), I think you can probably afford to pay a few hundred a year in race fees. Or you can just take up running, it's a lot cheaper.

Although I do have to say.....8 miles??? Does that even count for points?



Kristin


On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Jeff Henderson wrote:

This is an interesting discussion that used to annoy
me to no end - because I am a race director and
there's a lot of ignorance out there.

No one is valuing the promoter's time. You can add up
all of his costs, but I don't believe he shows up at
the track Tuesday night and a race magically happens.
He has to arrange for everything he pays for, as well
as a hundred other things.

I organize a duathlon (run-bike-run) on a race track
in NY. When I first approached Watkins Glen
International with the idea for the Fly by Night, I
was told the track costs $7,000 per day, with a
three-day minimum for weekends. Eventually, and with
much time and effort invested, I obtained a compromise
whereby my race would run in the evening, after the
Porsche Clash, for a bargain fee of $1,500. That was
four years ago, and last year was the first year I
turned a profit. And my entry fee starts at $55.

If you want to learn more about the finances involved,
you might find this article interesting:

http://www.flybynightdu.com/fly_by_night_opens_books.pdf

You have choices. I don't question the $15 because the
promoter has created something I very much enjoy. If
the cost outweighs the enjoyment, I don't go.

hope this helps,
Jeff

--- Jeff Tedder & Shari

wrote:

> All good points everyone is making....
> Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or
> Duathlon race...Spendy...
> Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....
> Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as
> getting new women and men out racing that probably
> would never try a road race because of being
> intimidated....And now we have a great new surface
> to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of
> complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....
>
> Jeff Tedder
> Hammer Nutrition Products
> Solid Core Training
> 503-246-2388
> cell 503-473-7650
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Hedahl
> To: obra
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
>
> You are also forgetting officials fees in the
> calculation, or did you think that obra officials
> were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john
> costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be
> made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also
> true that:
>

> a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to
> a professional "job",
>
> b.. health insurance is not provided,
>
> c.. you don't get sick days,
> d.. no 401k,
>
> e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.

> Seriously, if you think the price is to high then
> don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary
> they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find
> out how much work goes into planning and organizing
> a race and never complain again.
>
> /kevin hedahl
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson
> wrote:
>
> Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is
> this a great country or what?
>
> Rick
>
>
> T B wrote:
>
> > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for
> myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> > PIR was a low attendance. According to the
> numbers given and all, it
> > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On
> nights such as the Tuesday
> > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar
> profit for one race. That
> > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to
> profit when single day
> > races struggle to break even. A weekly series
> should focus on being
> > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15
> bucks. But it makes people
> > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
> can be squeezed into an
> > ever tight budget.
> >
> > My math;
> >
> > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials =
> Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders
> (lets say 150) = 337.5
> > dollars for insurance
> > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50
> dollars (which i have to
> > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a
> weekly basis. its actually
> > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can
> occur)
> >
> > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to
> be a fair average to
> > estimate if not a low average for the entire
> season).
> >
> > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
> >
> > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit
> for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job
> ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> > make an error in my math)
> >
> > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
> >
> > I just had to do the math just for s and g's
> and out of boredom
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com;
> cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
> >
> > Part of the problem is the expense.
> > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to
> rent. The truck rental
> > is $50, the first aid person and the
> officials all get paid. So I
> > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is
> $550 before the first
> > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person
> for the liability
> > insurance and surcharges.
> >
> > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do
> not use the truck and
> > the race organizer is a first aid
> provider, so the costs are much
> > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for
> juniors, adults pay $10.00.
> >
> > Do the math. If the race organizer doe
> snot make a profit there
> > will be no events for you to race.
> >
> > Candi
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *r r
> > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> >
> > I am going to take this email as an
> opportunity this jedi has been
> > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15
> bucks a shot every
> > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a
> weekly event. Unless PIR
> > wants some ungodly amount to use the
> venue, 15 almost seems like a
> > drastically over priced for what it is.
> Yes, i know you can buy a
> > season pass, but some of us are not in
> Portland for the entire PIR
> > season, but want to do more than one PIR a
> month. At least the
> > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the
> best deal is 5 bucks to
> > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And
> there are officials and
> > everything there just like PIR, the only
> possible difference is
> > that PIR wants money for us being there.
> But as far as i see it,
> > there is no reason a weekly series race
> should cost almost as much
> > as other events that are only held once a
> year.
> >
> > Just some of my thoughts and others that i
> have gathered over time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > >
> > > Cobra Kai would like to retract
> comments. Flyer was read while
> > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's
> brown belt and he did
>

=== message truncated ===>

_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>




____________________________________________________________________________________

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________________________________

Back to work after baby- how do you know when you're ready?

Michael O'Hair

Just to bring in some reality, bicycle racing is CHEAP. Despite the pricey toys, (carbon fiber everything, "ultra-light" everything else), bicycles are barely on the map.

Watch the Indy-type cars next time you're at PIR in the season and you'll see what a bargain we have. This is a pretty good article on the Brix-Comptech Indy car and it brings out the fact that racing at that level costs $400 a MILE.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/archive/112_9604_newest_indy_car/

Now you can discuss amongst yourselves why people are showing up at PIR with $6000 bikes.

----- Original Message -----
From: T B
To: Kristin ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

So now bicycle racing is only for the Rich? Sounds like a typical American.

Dan H

Unless you're a high level pro, you gotta pay to play.
----- Original Message -----
From: T B
To: Kristin ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

So now bicycle racing is only for the Rich? Sounds like a typical American.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:23:52 -0700
From: kristinw@gmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

Certainly for some people paying race fee after race fee adds up really fast, which is why I have much appreciated the ability to volunteer my time in exchange for a free race or two. I think most promoters seem willing to work with you if its that much of a hardship. Although if you have a (few) multi-thousand dollar bike(s), I think you can probably afford to pay a few hundred a year in race fees. Or you can just take up running, it's a lot cheaper.

Although I do have to say.....8 miles??? Does that even count for points?

Kristin

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Jeff Henderson wrote:

This is an interesting discussion that used to annoy
me to no end - because I am a race director and
there's a lot of ignorance out there.

No one is valuing the promoter's time. You can add up
all of his costs, but I don't believe he shows up at
the track Tuesday night and a race magically happens.
He has to arrange for everything he pays for, as well
as a hundred other things.

I organize a duathlon (run-bike-run) on a race track
in NY. When I first approached Watkins Glen
International with the idea for the Fly by Night, I
was told the track costs $7,000 per day, with a
three-day minimum for weekends. Eventually, and with
much time and effort invested, I obtained a compromise
whereby my race would run in the evening, after the
Porsche Clash, for a bargain fee of $1,500. That was
four years ago, and last year was the first year I
turned a profit. And my entry fee starts at $55.

If you want to learn more about the finances involved,
you might find this article interesting:

http://www.flybynightdu.com/fly_by_night_opens_books.pdf

You have choices. I don't question the $15 because the
promoter has created something I very much enjoy. If
the cost outweighs the enjoyment, I don't go.

hope this helps,
Jeff

--- Jeff Tedder & Shari

wrote:

> All good points everyone is making....
> Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or
> Duathlon race...Spendy...
> Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....
> Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as
> getting new women and men out racing that probably
> would never try a road race because of being
> intimidated....And now we have a great new surface
> to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of
> complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....
>
> Jeff Tedder
> Hammer Nutrition Products
> Solid Core Training
> 503-246-2388
> cell 503-473-7650
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Hedahl
> To: obra
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
>
> You are also forgetting officials fees in the
> calculation, or did you think that obra officials
> were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john
> costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be
> made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also
> true that:
>

> a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to
> a professional "job",
>
> b.. health insurance is not provided,
>
> c.. you don't get sick days,
> d.. no 401k,
>
> e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.

> Seriously, if you think the price is to high then
> don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary
> they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find
> out how much work goes into planning and organizing
> a race and never complain again.
>
> /kevin hedahl
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson
> wrote:
>
> Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is
> this a great country or what?
>
> Rick
>
>
> T B wrote:
>
> > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for
> myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> > PIR was a low attendance. According to the
> numbers given and all, it
> > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On
> nights such as the Tuesday
> > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar
> profit for one race. That
> > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to
> profit when single day
> > races struggle to break even. A weekly series
> should focus on being
> > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15
> bucks. But it makes people
> > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
> can be squeezed into an
> > ever tight budget.
> >
> > My math;
> >
> > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials =
> Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders
> (lets say 150) = 337.5
> > dollars for insurance
> > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50
> dollars (which i have to
> > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a
> weekly basis. its actually
> > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can
> occur)
> >
> > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to
> be a fair average to
> > estimate if not a low average for the entire
> season).
> >
> > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
> >
> > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit
> for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job
> ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> > make an error in my math)
> >
> > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
> >
> > I just had to do the math just for s and g's
> and out of boredom
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com;
> cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
> >
> > Part of the problem is the expense.
> > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to
> rent. The truck rental
> > is $50, the first aid person and the
> officials all get paid. So I
> > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is
> $550 before the first
> > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person
> for the liability
> > insurance and surcharges.
> >
> > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do
> not use the truck and
> > the race organizer is a first aid
> provider, so the costs are much
> > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for
> juniors, adults pay $10.00.
> >
> > Do the math. If the race organizer doe
> snot make a profit there
> > will be no events for you to race.
> >
> > Candi
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *r r
> > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> >
> > I am going to take this email as an
> opportunity this jedi has been
> > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15
> bucks a shot every
> > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a
> weekly event. Unless PIR
> > wants some ungodly amount to use the
> venue, 15 almost seems like a
> > drastically over priced for what it is.
> Yes, i know you can buy a
> > season pass, but some of us are not in
> Portland for the entire PIR
> > season, but want to do more than one PIR a
> month. At least the
> > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the
> best deal is 5 bucks to
> > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And
> there are officials and
> > everything there just like PIR, the only
> possible difference is
> > that PIR wants money for us being there.
> But as far as i see it,
> > there is no reason a weekly series race
> should cost almost as much
> > as other events that are only held once a
> year.
> >
> > Just some of my thoughts and others that i
> have gathered over time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > >
> > > Cobra Kai would like to retract
> comments. Flyer was read while
> > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's
> brown belt and he did
>

=== message truncated ===>

_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

____________________________________________________________________________________

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------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to work after baby– how do you know when you’re ready?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

T B

So now bicycle racing is only for the Rich? Sounds like a typical American.

Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:23:52 -0700
From: kristinw@gmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

Certainly for some people paying race fee after race fee adds up really fast, which is why I have much appreciated the ability to volunteer my time in exchange for a free race or two. I think most promoters seem willing to work with you if its that much of a hardship. Although if you have a (few) multi-thousand dollar bike(s), I think you can probably afford to pay a few hundred a year in race fees. Or you can just take up running, it's a lot cheaper.

Although I do have to say.....8 miles??? Does that even count for points?

Kristin

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Jeff Henderson wrote:

This is an interesting discussion that used to annoy

me to no end - because I am a race director and

there's a lot of ignorance out there.

No one is valuing the promoter's time. You can add up

all of his costs, but I don't believe he shows up at

the track Tuesday night and a race magically happens.

He has to arrange for everything he pays for, as well

as a hundred other things.

I organize a duathlon (run-bike-run) on a race track

in NY. When I first approached Watkins Glen

International with the idea for the Fly by Night, I

was told the track costs $7,000 per day, with a

three-day minimum for weekends. Eventually, and with

much time and effort invested, I obtained a compromise

whereby my race would run in the evening, after the

Porsche Clash, for a bargain fee of $1,500. That was

four years ago, and last year was the first year I

turned a profit. And my entry fee starts at $55.

If you want to learn more about the finances involved,

you might find this article interesting:

http://www.flybynightdu.com/fly_by_night_opens_books.pdf

You have choices. I don't question the $15 because the

promoter has created something I very much enjoy. If

the cost outweighs the enjoyment, I don't go.

hope this helps,

Jeff

--- Jeff Tedder & Shari

wrote:

> All good points everyone is making....

> Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or

> Duathlon race...Spendy...

> Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....

> Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as

> getting new women and men out racing that probably

> would never try a road race because of being

> intimidated....And now we have a great new surface

> to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of

> complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....

>

> Jeff Tedder

> Hammer Nutrition Products

> Solid Core Training

> 503-246-2388

> cell 503-473-7650

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: Kevin Hedahl

> To: obra

> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM

> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

>

>

> You are also forgetting officials fees in the

> calculation, or did you think that obra officials

> were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john

> costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be

> made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also

> true that:

>

> a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to

> a professional "job",

>

> b.. health insurance is not provided,

>

> c.. you don't get sick days,

> d.. no 401k,

>

> e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.

> Seriously, if you think the price is to high then

> don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary

> they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find

> out how much work goes into planning and organizing

> a race and never complain again.

>

> /kevin hedahl

>

>

> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson

> wrote:

>

> Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is

> this a great country or what?

>

> Rick

>

>

> T B wrote:

>

> > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for

> myself. AND WOW!!! This past

> > PIR was a low attendance. According to the

> numbers given and all, it

> > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On

> nights such as the Tuesday

> > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar

> profit for one race. That

> > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to

> profit when single day

> > races struggle to break even. A weekly series

> should focus on being

> > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15

> bucks. But it makes people

> > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it

> can be squeezed into an

> > ever tight budget.

> >

> > My math;

> >

> > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials =

> Give estimate of 550 Dollars

> > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders

> (lets say 150) = 337.5

> > dollars for insurance

> > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50

> dollars (which i have to

> > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a

> weekly basis. its actually

> > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can

> occur)

> >

> > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to

> be a fair average to

> > estimate if not a low average for the entire

> season).

> >

> > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross

> >

> > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit

> for ONE night. WOW!!! I

> > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job

> ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't

> > make an error in my math)

> >

> > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)

> >

> > I just had to do the math just for s and g's

> and out of boredom

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > From: cmurray@obra.org

> > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com;

> cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org

> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR

> retraction

> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700

> >

> > Part of the problem is the expense.

> > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to

> rent. The truck rental

> > is $50, the first aid person and the

> officials all get paid. So I

> > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is

> $550 before the first

> > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person

> for the liability

> > insurance and surcharges.

> >

> > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do

> not use the truck and

> > the race organizer is a first aid

> provider, so the costs are much

> > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for

> juniors, adults pay $10.00.

> >

> > Do the math. If the race organizer doe

> snot make a profit there

> > will be no events for you to race.

> >

> > Candi

> >

> >

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org

> > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On

> Behalf Of *r r

> > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM

> > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org

> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR

> retraction

> >

> > I am going to take this email as an

> opportunity this jedi has been

> > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15

> bucks a shot every

> > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a

> weekly event. Unless PIR

> > wants some ungodly amount to use the

> venue, 15 almost seems like a

> > drastically over priced for what it is.

> Yes, i know you can buy a

> > season pass, but some of us are not in

> Portland for the entire PIR

> > season, but want to do more than one PIR a

> month. At least the

> > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the

> best deal is 5 bucks to

> > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And

> there are officials and

> > everything there just like PIR, the only

> possible difference is

> > that PIR wants money for us being there.

> But as far as i see it,

> > there is no reason a weekly series race

> should cost almost as much

> > as other events that are only held once a

> year.

> >

> > Just some of my thoughts and others that i

> have gathered over time.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700

> > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com

> > > To: obra@list.obra.org

> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR

> retraction

> > >

> > > Cobra Kai would like to retract

> comments. Flyer was read while

> > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's

> brown belt and he did

>

=== message truncated ===>

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> obra@list.obra.org

> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

>

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_________________________________________________________________
Back to work after baby–how do you know when you’re ready?
http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=5797498&ocid=T067MSN40A0701A

Craig Austin

If $15 is too much, you can always race the Vancouver Lake time trial on Thursdays. For your dollar entry fee, you get a sweet temporary number, a 10-mile ride by yourself, the satisfaction of racing against all other categories with no breakdown, and, occasionally, you get to see results posted in a newsletter a month later.

This is by no means a dig at the Vancouver TT; it is what it is, and you get what you pay for. It's a great opportunity to get some good training in cheaply and safely. And PIR is also what it is; an opportunity to race your bike right in town, against some great competition, on a great surface, two nights a week. If you miss one, there's another one next day or next week.

Anytime one of you would like to run a race series at no profit, more power to you. Find a venue, get permits, line it all up, get officials and equipment, organize it, and charge $5. We'll be there. Just don't put it on Monday or Tuesday nights because we already have a good event then.

Craig

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Jeff Henderson
Sent: Tue 4/29/2008 9:03 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

This is an interesting discussion that used to annoy
me to no end - because I am a race director and
there's a lot of ignorance out there.

No one is valuing the promoter's time. You can add up
all of his costs, but I don't believe he shows up at
the track Tuesday night and a race magically happens.
He has to arrange for everything he pays for, as well
as a hundred other things.

I organize a duathlon (run-bike-run) on a race track
in NY. When I first approached Watkins Glen
International with the idea for the Fly by Night, I
was told the track costs $7,000 per day, with a
three-day minimum for weekends. Eventually, and with
much time and effort invested, I obtained a compromise
whereby my race would run in the evening, after the
Porsche Clash, for a bargain fee of $1,500. That was
four years ago, and last year was the first year I
turned a profit. And my entry fee starts at $55.

If you want to learn more about the finances involved,
you might find this article interesting:

http://www.flybynightdu.com/fly_by_night_opens_books.pdf

You have choices. I don't question the $15 because the
promoter has created something I very much enjoy. If
the cost outweighs the enjoyment, I don't go.

hope this helps,
Jeff

--- Jeff Tedder & Shari
wrote:

> All good points everyone is making....
> Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or
> Duathlon race...Spendy...
> Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....
> Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as
> getting new women and men out racing that probably
> would never try a road race because of being
> intimidated....And now we have a great new surface
> to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of
> complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....
>
> Jeff Tedder
> Hammer Nutrition Products
> Solid Core Training
> 503-246-2388
> cell 503-473-7650
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Hedahl
> To: obra
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
>
> You are also forgetting officials fees in the
> calculation, or did you think that obra officials
> were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john
> costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be
> made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also
> true that:
>
> a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to
> a professional "job",
>
> b.. health insurance is not provided,
>
> c.. you don't get sick days,
> d.. no 401k,
>
> e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.
> Seriously, if you think the price is to high then
> don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary
> they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find
> out how much work goes into planning and organizing
> a race and never complain again.
>
> /kevin hedahl
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson
> wrote:
>
> Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is
> this a great country or what?
>
> Rick
>
>
> T B wrote:
>
> > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for
> myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> > PIR was a low attendance. According to the
> numbers given and all, it
> > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On
> nights such as the Tuesday
> > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar
> profit for one race. That
> > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to
> profit when single day
> > races struggle to break even. A weekly series
> should focus on being
> > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15
> bucks. But it makes people
> > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
> can be squeezed into an
> > ever tight budget.
> >
> > My math;
> >
> > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials =
> Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders
> (lets say 150) = 337.5
> > dollars for insurance
> > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50
> dollars (which i have to
> > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a
> weekly basis. its actually
> > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can
> occur)
> >
> > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to
> be a fair average to
> > estimate if not a low average for the entire
> season).
> >
> > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
> >
> > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit
> for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job
> ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> > make an error in my math)
> >
> > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
> >
> > I just had to do the math just for s and g's
> and out of boredom
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com;
> cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
> >
> > Part of the problem is the expense.
> > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to
> rent. The truck rental
> > is $50, the first aid person and the
> officials all get paid. So I
> > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is
> $550 before the first
> > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person
> for the liability
> > insurance and surcharges.
> >
> > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do
> not use the truck and
> > the race organizer is a first aid
> provider, so the costs are much
> > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for
> juniors, adults pay $10.00.
> >
> > Do the math. If the race organizer doe
> snot make a profit there
> > will be no events for you to race.
> >
> > Candi
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *r r
> > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> >
> > I am going to take this email as an
> opportunity this jedi has been
> > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15
> bucks a shot every
> > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a
> weekly event. Unless PIR
> > wants some ungodly amount to use the
> venue, 15 almost seems like a
> > drastically over priced for what it is.
> Yes, i know you can buy a
> > season pass, but some of us are not in
> Portland for the entire PIR
> > season, but want to do more than one PIR a
> month. At least the
> > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the
> best deal is 5 bucks to
> > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And
> there are officials and
> > everything there just like PIR, the only
> possible difference is
> > that PIR wants money for us being there.
> But as far as i see it,
> > there is no reason a weekly series race
> should cost almost as much
> > as other events that are only held once a
> year.
> >
> > Just some of my thoughts and others that i
> have gathered over time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > >
> > > Cobra Kai would like to retract
> comments. Flyer was read while
> > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's
> brown belt and he did
>
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Kristin

Certainly for some people paying race fee after race fee adds up really
fast, which is why I have much appreciated the ability to volunteer my time
in exchange for a free race or two. I think most promoters seem willing to
work with you if its that much of a hardship. Although if you have a (few)
multi-thousand dollar bike(s), I think you can probably afford to pay a few
hundred a year in race fees. Or you can just take up running, it's a lot
cheaper.

Although I do have to say.....8 miles??? Does that even count for points?

Kristin

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 9:03 AM, Jeff Henderson wrote:

> This is an interesting discussion that used to annoy
> me to no end - because I am a race director and
> there's a lot of ignorance out there.
>
> No one is valuing the promoter's time. You can add up
> all of his costs, but I don't believe he shows up at
> the track Tuesday night and a race magically happens.
> He has to arrange for everything he pays for, as well
> as a hundred other things.
>
> I organize a duathlon (run-bike-run) on a race track
> in NY. When I first approached Watkins Glen
> International with the idea for the Fly by Night, I
> was told the track costs $7,000 per day, with a
> three-day minimum for weekends. Eventually, and with
> much time and effort invested, I obtained a compromise
> whereby my race would run in the evening, after the
> Porsche Clash, for a bargain fee of $1,500. That was
> four years ago, and last year was the first year I
> turned a profit. And my entry fee starts at $55.
>
> If you want to learn more about the finances involved,
> you might find this article interesting:
>
> http://www.flybynightdu.com/fly_by_night_opens_books.pdf
>
> You have choices. I don't question the $15 because the
> promoter has created something I very much enjoy. If
> the cost outweighs the enjoyment, I don't go.
>
> hope this helps,
> Jeff
>
> --- Jeff Tedder & Shari
> wrote:
>
> > All good points everyone is making....
> > Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or
> > Duathlon race...Spendy...
> > Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....
> > Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as
> > getting new women and men out racing that probably
> > would never try a road race because of being
> > intimidated....And now we have a great new surface
> > to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of
> > complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....
> >
> > Jeff Tedder
> > Hammer Nutrition Products
> > Solid Core Training
> > 503-246-2388
> > cell 503-473-7650
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Kevin Hedahl
> > To: obra
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> >
> >
> > You are also forgetting officials fees in the
> > calculation, or did you think that obra officials
> > were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john
> > costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be
> > made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also
> > true that:
> >
> > a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to
> > a professional "job",
> >
> > b.. health insurance is not provided,
> >
> > c.. you don't get sick days,
> > d.. no 401k,
> >
> > e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.
> > Seriously, if you think the price is to high then
> > don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary
> > they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find
> > out how much work goes into planning and organizing
> > a race and never complain again.
> >
> > /kevin hedahl
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson
> > wrote:
> >
> > Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is
> > this a great country or what?
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > T B wrote:
> >
> > > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for
> > myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> > > PIR was a low attendance. According to the
> > numbers given and all, it
> > > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On
> > nights such as the Tuesday
> > > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar
> > profit for one race. That
> > > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to
> > profit when single day
> > > races struggle to break even. A weekly series
> > should focus on being
> > > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15
> > bucks. But it makes people
> > > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
> > can be squeezed into an
> > > ever tight budget.
> > >
> > > My math;
> > >
> > > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials =
> > Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> > > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders
> > (lets say 150) = 337.5
> > > dollars for insurance
> > > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50
> > dollars (which i have to
> > > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a
> > weekly basis. its actually
> > > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can
> > occur)
> > >
> > > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to
> > be a fair average to
> > > estimate if not a low average for the entire
> > season).
> > >
> > > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
> > >
> > > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit
> > for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> > > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job
> > ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> > > make an error in my math)
> > >
> > > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
> > >
> > > I just had to do the math just for s and g's
> > and out of boredom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com;
> > cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> > retraction
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
> > >
> > > Part of the problem is the expense.
> > > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to
> > rent. The truck rental
> > > is $50, the first aid person and the
> > officials all get paid. So I
> > > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is
> > $550 before the first
> > > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person
> > for the liability
> > > insurance and surcharges.
> > >
> > > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do
> > not use the truck and
> > > the race organizer is a first aid
> > provider, so the costs are much
> > > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for
> > juniors, adults pay $10.00.
> > >
> > > Do the math. If the race organizer doe
> > snot make a profit there
> > > will be no events for you to race.
> > >
> > > Candi
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> > Behalf Of *r r
> > > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> > > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> > > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> > retraction
> > >
> > > I am going to take this email as an
> > opportunity this jedi has been
> > > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15
> > bucks a shot every
> > > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a
> > weekly event. Unless PIR
> > > wants some ungodly amount to use the
> > venue, 15 almost seems like a
> > > drastically over priced for what it is.
> > Yes, i know you can buy a
> > > season pass, but some of us are not in
> > Portland for the entire PIR
> > > season, but want to do more than one PIR a
> > month. At least the
> > > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the
> > best deal is 5 bucks to
> > > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And
> > there are officials and
> > > everything there just like PIR, the only
> > possible difference is
> > > that PIR wants money for us being there.
> > But as far as i see it,
> > > there is no reason a weekly series race
> > should cost almost as much
> > > as other events that are only held once a
> > year.
> > >
> > > Just some of my thoughts and others that i
> > have gathered over time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> > retraction
> > > >
> > > > Cobra Kai would like to retract
> > comments. Flyer was read while
> > > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's
> > brown belt and he did
> >
> === message truncated ===>
> _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--

www.runbikeswim.net

Jeff Henderson

This is an interesting discussion that used to annoy
me to no end - because I am a race director and
there's a lot of ignorance out there.

No one is valuing the promoter's time. You can add up
all of his costs, but I don't believe he shows up at
the track Tuesday night and a race magically happens.
He has to arrange for everything he pays for, as well
as a hundred other things.

I organize a duathlon (run-bike-run) on a race track
in NY. When I first approached Watkins Glen
International with the idea for the Fly by Night, I
was told the track costs $7,000 per day, with a
three-day minimum for weekends. Eventually, and with
much time and effort invested, I obtained a compromise
whereby my race would run in the evening, after the
Porsche Clash, for a bargain fee of $1,500. That was
four years ago, and last year was the first year I
turned a profit. And my entry fee starts at $55.

If you want to learn more about the finances involved,
you might find this article interesting:

http://www.flybynightdu.com/fly_by_night_opens_books.pdf

You have choices. I don't question the $15 because the
promoter has created something I very much enjoy. If
the cost outweighs the enjoyment, I don't go.

hope this helps,
Jeff

--- Jeff Tedder & Shari
wrote:

> All good points everyone is making....
> Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or
> Duathlon race...Spendy...
> Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....
> Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as
> getting new women and men out racing that probably
> would never try a road race because of being
> intimidated....And now we have a great new surface
> to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of
> complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....
>
> Jeff Tedder
> Hammer Nutrition Products
> Solid Core Training
> 503-246-2388
> cell 503-473-7650
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kevin Hedahl
> To: obra
> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
>
> You are also forgetting officials fees in the
> calculation, or did you think that obra officials
> were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john
> costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be
> made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also
> true that:
>
> a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to
> a professional "job",
>
> b.. health insurance is not provided,
>
> c.. you don't get sick days,
> d.. no 401k,
>
> e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.
> Seriously, if you think the price is to high then
> don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary
> they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find
> out how much work goes into planning and organizing
> a race and never complain again.
>
> /kevin hedahl
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson
> wrote:
>
> Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is
> this a great country or what?
>
> Rick
>
>
> T B wrote:
>
> > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for
> myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> > PIR was a low attendance. According to the
> numbers given and all, it
> > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On
> nights such as the Tuesday
> > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar
> profit for one race. That
> > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to
> profit when single day
> > races struggle to break even. A weekly series
> should focus on being
> > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15
> bucks. But it makes people
> > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
> can be squeezed into an
> > ever tight budget.
> >
> > My math;
> >
> > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials =
> Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders
> (lets say 150) = 337.5
> > dollars for insurance
> > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50
> dollars (which i have to
> > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a
> weekly basis. its actually
> > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can
> occur)
> >
> > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to
> be a fair average to
> > estimate if not a low average for the entire
> season).
> >
> > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
> >
> > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit
> for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job
> ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> > make an error in my math)
> >
> > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
> >
> > I just had to do the math just for s and g's
> and out of boredom
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com;
> cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
> >
> > Part of the problem is the expense.
> > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to
> rent. The truck rental
> > is $50, the first aid person and the
> officials all get paid. So I
> > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is
> $550 before the first
> > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person
> for the liability
> > insurance and surcharges.
> >
> > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do
> not use the truck and
> > the race organizer is a first aid
> provider, so the costs are much
> > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for
> juniors, adults pay $10.00.
> >
> > Do the math. If the race organizer doe
> snot make a profit there
> > will be no events for you to race.
> >
> > Candi
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *r r
> > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> >
> > I am going to take this email as an
> opportunity this jedi has been
> > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15
> bucks a shot every
> > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a
> weekly event. Unless PIR
> > wants some ungodly amount to use the
> venue, 15 almost seems like a
> > drastically over priced for what it is.
> Yes, i know you can buy a
> > season pass, but some of us are not in
> Portland for the entire PIR
> > season, but want to do more than one PIR a
> month. At least the
> > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the
> best deal is 5 bucks to
> > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And
> there are officials and
> > everything there just like PIR, the only
> possible difference is
> > that PIR wants money for us being there.
> But as far as i see it,
> > there is no reason a weekly series race
> should cost almost as much
> > as other events that are only held once a
> year.
> >
> > Just some of my thoughts and others that i
> have gathered over time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
> retraction
> > >
> > > Cobra Kai would like to retract
> comments. Flyer was read while
> > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's
> brown belt and he did
>
=== message truncated ===>
_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Jeff Tedder & Shari

All good points everyone is making....
Also compare PIR races to the cost of doing a TRI or Duathlon race...Spendy...
Then come back and say PIR is to expensive....
Having PIR races is a big asset to OBRA as far as getting new women and men out racing that probably would never try a road race because of being intimidated....And now we have a great new surface to race on....I would be thanking Jeff instead of complaining...If you want to Play you gotta Pay....

Jeff Tedder
Hammer Nutrition Products
Solid Core Training
503-246-2388
cell 503-473-7650

----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Hedahl
To: obra
Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 8:44 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

You are also forgetting officials fees in the calculation, or did you think that obra officials were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john costs, noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be made by organizing cycling racers. But it is also true that:

a.. the overall pay isn't very good compared to a professional "job",

b.. health insurance is not provided,

c.. you don't get sick days,
d.. no 401k,

e.. and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.
Seriously, if you think the price is to high then don't race. If you want in on the 5-figure salary they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find out how much work goes into planning and organizing a race and never complain again.

/kevin hedahl

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson wrote:

Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is this a great country or what?

Rick

T B wrote:

> Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> PIR was a low attendance. According to the numbers given and all, it
> was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On nights such as the Tuesday
> prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar profit for one race. That
> seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to profit when single day
> races struggle to break even. A weekly series should focus on being
> affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15 bucks. But it makes people
> like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it can be squeezed into an
> ever tight budget.
>
> My math;
>
> 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials = Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders (lets say 150) = 337.5
> dollars for insurance
> Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50 dollars (which i have to
> admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a weekly basis. its actually
> almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can occur)
>
> So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to be a fair average to
> estimate if not a low average for the entire season).
>
> 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
>
> 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> make an error in my math)
>
> Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
>
> I just had to do the math just for s and g's and out of boredom
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: cmurray@obra.org
> To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
>
> Part of the problem is the expense.
> The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck rental
> is $50, the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I
> would imagine that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first
> rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person for the liability
> insurance and surcharges.
>
> There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and
> the race organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much
> less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.
>
> Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there
> will be no events for you to race.
>
> Candi
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On Behalf Of *r r
> *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been
> pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every
> Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR
> wants some ungodly amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a
> drastically over priced for what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a
> season pass, but some of us are not in Portland for the entire PIR
> season, but want to do more than one PIR a month. At least the
> Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5 bucks to
> race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and
> everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is
> that PIR wants money for us being there. But as far as i see it,
> there is no reason a weekly series race should cost almost as much
> as other events that are only held once a year.
>
> Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> >
> > Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while
> practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did
> not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now
> be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai
> apologizes to owners of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
> >
> > NO SENSEI!!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.

>
>
>
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!

>
>
>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Kevin Hedahl

You are also forgetting officials fees in the calculation, or did you think
that obra officials were volunteers? Also, don't forget porta-john costs,
noise permits, etc. Yes, there is money to be made by organizing cycling
racers. But it is also true that:

- the overall pay isn't very good compared to a professional "job",
- health insurance is not provided,
- you don't get sick days,
- no 401k,
- and nobody seems to appreciate what you do.

Seriously, if you think the price is to high then don't race. If you want in
on the 5-figure salary they are making, then throw a race. Then you'll find
out how much work goes into planning and organizing a race and never
complain again.

/kevin hedahl

On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:46 AM, Rick C Johnson
wrote:

> Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is this a great country or
> what?
>
> Rick
>
> T B wrote:
>
> > Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> > PIR was a low attendance. According to the numbers given and all, it
> > was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On nights such as the Tuesday
> > prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar profit for one race. That
> > seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to profit when single day
> > races struggle to break even. A weekly series should focus on being
> > affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15 bucks. But it makes people
> > like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it can be squeezed into an
> > ever tight budget.
> >
> > My math;
> >
> > 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials = Give estimate of 550
> Dollars
> > 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders (lets say 150) = 337.5
> > dollars for insurance
> > Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50 dollars (which i have to
> > admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a weekly basis. its actually
> > almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can occur)
> >
> > So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to be a fair average to
> > estimate if not a low average for the entire season).
> >
> > 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
> >
> > 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> > mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> > make an error in my math)
> >
> > Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
> >
> > I just had to do the math just for s and g's and out of boredom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > From: cmurray@obra.org
> > To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
> >
> > Part of the problem is the expense.
> > The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck rental
> > is $50, the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I
> > would imagine that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first
> > rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person for the liability
> > insurance and surcharges.
> >
> > There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and
> > the race organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much
> > less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay
> $10.00.
> >
> > Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there
> > will be no events for you to race.
> >
> > Candi
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> > [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On Behalf Of *r r
> > *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> > *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> >
> > I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been
> > pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every
> > Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR
> > wants some ungodly amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a
> > drastically over priced for what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a
> > season pass, but some of us are not in Portland for the entire PIR
> > season, but want to do more than one PIR a month. At least the
> > Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5 bucks to
> > race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and
> > everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is
> > that PIR wants money for us being there. But as far as i see it,
> > there is no reason a weekly series race should cost almost as much
> > as other events that are only held once a year.
> >
> > Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> > >
> > > Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while
> > practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did
> > not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now
> > be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai
> > apologizes to owners of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
> > >
> > > NO SENSEI!!
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.
> > <
> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Contribute/Default.aspx?source=TXT_TAGHM_MSN_Make_IM_Yours
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
> > <
> http://www.gowindowslive.com/Mobile/Landing/Messenger/Default.aspx?Locale=en-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Rick C Johnson

Man, you gotta love our capitalist system! Is this a great country or what?

Rick

T B wrote:

> Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> PIR was a low attendance. According to the numbers given and all, it
> was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On nights such as the Tuesday
> prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar profit for one race. That
> seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to profit when single day
> races struggle to break even. A weekly series should focus on being
> affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15 bucks. But it makes people
> like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it can be squeezed into an
> ever tight budget.
>
> My math;
>
> 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials = Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders (lets say 150) = 337.5
> dollars for insurance
> Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50 dollars (which i have to
> admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a weekly basis. its actually
> almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can occur)
>
> So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to be a fair average to
> estimate if not a low average for the entire season).
>
> 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
>
> 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't
> make an error in my math)
>
> Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
>
> I just had to do the math just for s and g's and out of boredom
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: cmurray@obra.org
> To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
>
> Part of the problem is the expense.
> The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck rental
> is $50, the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I
> would imagine that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first
> rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person for the liability
> insurance and surcharges.
>
> There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and
> the race organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much
> less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.
>
> Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there
> will be no events for you to race.
>
> Candi
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On Behalf Of *r r
> *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been
> pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every
> Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR
> wants some ungodly amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a
> drastically over priced for what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a
> season pass, but some of us are not in Portland for the entire PIR
> season, but want to do more than one PIR a month. At least the
> Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5 bucks to
> race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and
> everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is
> that PIR wants money for us being there. But as far as i see it,
> there is no reason a weekly series race should cost almost as much
> as other events that are only held once a year.
>
> Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> >
> > Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while
> practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did
> not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now
> be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai
> apologizes to owners of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
> >
> > NO SENSEI!!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Karsten Hagen

This is a very well organized weekly series, put on rain or shine at a great
venue. Of course the organizer should make a healthy profit, it is an
excellent product. Of course, you could probably get just as good a workout
doing intervals on your own somewhere for free, right?

On 4/29/08 6:42 AM, "Tony McCray" wrote:

> Why don't you go organize a weekly race series then?
>
> 2008/4/29 T B :
>> Further math
>>
>> Multiple that by 20 PIRs in a season...thats 27,250 dollars net profit for
>> the entire PIR series. Maybe we should start having cash purses at these or
>> something. I mean, shoot, i work 40 hrs a week, and have a bachelors degree,
>> and only make 22,000. Dang. I chose the wrong profession.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: bikexcr@hotmail.com
>>> To: cmurray@obra.org; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>>> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:56:47 -0700
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>>>
>>> Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for myself. AND WOW!!! This past PIR
>>> was a low attendance. According to the numbers given and all, it was only a
>>> profit of about 330 bucks. On nights such as the Tuesday prior, it seems to
>>> be almost 1300 dollar profit for one race. That seems a ridiculous amount
>>> for a weekly race to profit when single day races struggle to break even. A
>>> weekly series should focus on being affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats
>>> 15 bucks. But it makes people like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
>>> can be squeezed into an ever tight budget.
>>>
>>> My math;
>>>
>>> 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials = Give estimate of 550 Dollars
>>> 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders (lets say 150) = 337.5
>>> dollars for insurance
>>> Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50 dollars (which i have to admit
>>> is a pretty hefty bill to have on a weekly basis. its actually almost
>>> outrageous and makes it a wonder it can occur)
>>>
>>> So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to be a fair average to estimate
>>> if not a low average for the entire season).
>>>
>>> 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
>>>
>>> 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit for ONE night. WOW!!! I
>>> mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't make
>>> an error in my math)
>>>
>>> Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
>>>
>>> I just had to do the math just for s and g's and out of boredom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: cmurray@obra.org
>>>> To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
>>>> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>>>> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
>>>>
>>>> Part of the problem is the expense.
>>>> The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck rental is $50,
>>>> the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I would imagine
>>>> that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first rider shows up. It costs
>>>> $2.25 per person for the liability insurance and surcharges.
>>>>
>>>> There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and the race
>>>> organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much less then PIR. It
>>>> is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.
>>>>
>>>> Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there will be no
>>>> events for you to race.
>>>>
>>>> Candi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of r r
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
>>>> To: Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>>>>
>>>> I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been
>>>> pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every Tuesday? That
>>>> seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some ungodly
>>>> amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced for
>>>> what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are not
>>>> in Portland for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a
>>>> month. At least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is
>>>> 5 bucks to race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials
>>>> and everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that
>>>> PIR wants money for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no
>>>> reason a weekly series race should cost almost as much as other events that
>>>> are only held once a year.
>>>>
>>>> Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
>>>>> > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
>>>>> > To: obra@list.obra.org
>>>>> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while
>>>>> practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did not
>>>>> realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now be paying
>>>>> less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners of
>>>>> PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > NO SENSEI!!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>> > OBRA mailing list
>>>>> > obra@list.obra.org
>>>>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.
>>>> >>> SN_Make_IM_Yours>
>>>
>>>
>>> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
>>> >> n-US?ocid=TAG_APRIL>
>>
>>
>> Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. Get in
>> the game.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>

Mark J. Ginsberg

there is cash for top three in the 1-2-3 every week.

Mark Ginsberg

T B wrote: .hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Further math

Multiple that by 20 PIRs in a season...thats 27,250 dollars net profit for the entire PIR series. Maybe we should start having cash purses at these or something. I mean, shoot, i work 40 hrs a week, and have a bachelors degree, and only make 22,000. Dang. I chose the wrong profession.

---------------------------------
From: bikexcr@hotmail.com
To: cmurray@obra.org; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:56:47 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for myself. AND WOW!!! This past PIR was a low attendance. According to the numbers given and all, it was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On nights such as the Tuesday prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar profit for one race. That seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to profit when single day races struggle to break even. A weekly series should focus on being affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15 bucks. But it makes people like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it can be squeezed into an ever tight budget.

My math;

300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials = Give estimate of 550 Dollars
550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders (lets say 150) = 337.5 dollars for insurance
Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50 dollars (which i have to admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a weekly basis. its actually almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can occur)

So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to be a fair average to estimate if not a low average for the entire season).

150 x 15 = 2,250 gross

2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit for ONE night. WOW!!! I mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't make an error in my math)

Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)

I just had to do the math just for s and g's and out of boredom

---------------------------------
From: cmurray@obra.org
To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700

.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Part of the problem is the expense.
The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck rental is $50, the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I would imagine that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first rider shows up. It costs $2.25 per person for the liability insurance and surcharges.

There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and the race organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much less then PIR. It is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.

Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there will be no events for you to race.

Candi

---------------------------------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of r r
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
To: Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some ungodly amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced for what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are not in Portland for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a month. At least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5 bucks to race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that PIR wants money for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no reason a weekly series race should cost almost as much as other events that are only held once a year.

Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.

---------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
>
> NO SENSEI!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

---------------------------------
Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.

---------------------------------
Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!

---------------------------------
Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. Get in the game._______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Tony McCray

Why don't you go organize a weekly race series then?

2008/4/29 T B :

> Further math
>
> Multiple that by 20 PIRs in a season...thats 27,250 dollars net profit for
> the entire PIR series. Maybe we should start having cash purses at these or
> something. I mean, shoot, i work 40 hrs a week, and have a bachelors degree,
> and only make 22,000. Dang. I chose the wrong profession.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: bikexcr@hotmail.com
> To: cmurray@obra.org; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:56:47 -0700
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for myself. AND WOW!!! This past
> PIR was a low attendance. According to the numbers given and all, it was
> only a profit of about 330 bucks. On nights such as the Tuesday prior, it
> seems to be almost 1300 dollar profit for one race. That seems a ridiculous
> amount for a weekly race to profit when single day races struggle to break
> even. A weekly series should focus on being affordable. Yes, to most of
> yall, whats 15 bucks. But it makes people like me, broke and starving,
> ponder whether it can be squeezed into an ever tight budget.
>
> My math;
>
> 300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials = Give estimate of 550 Dollars
> 550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders (lets say 150) = 337.5
> dollars for insurance
> Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50 dollars (which i have to admit
> is a pretty hefty bill to have on a weekly basis. its actually almost
> outrageous and makes it a wonder it can occur)
>
> So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to be a fair average to
> estimate if not a low average for the entire season).
>
> 150 x 15 = 2,250 gross
>
> 2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit for ONE night. WOW!!! I
> mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't make
> an error in my math)
>
> Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)
>
> I just had to do the math just for s and g's and out of boredom
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: cmurray@obra.org
> To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
>
> Part of the problem is the expense.
> The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck rental is $50,
> the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I would imagine
> that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first rider shows up. It costs
> $2.25 per person for the liability insurance and surcharges.
>
> There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and the race
> organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much less then PIR. It
> is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.
>
> Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there will be no
> events for you to race.
>
> Candi
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *r r
> *Sent:* Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
> *To:* Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been
> pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every Tuesday? That
> seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some ungodly
> amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced for
> what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are not
> in Portland for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a
> month. At least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is
> 5 bucks to race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and
> everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that PIR
> wants money for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no reason a
> weekly series race should cost almost as much as other events that are only
> held once a year.
>
> Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> > Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> > From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
> >
> > Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while
> practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did not realize
> that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now be paying less that $1
> per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners of PIR but still
> feels sorry for Cat V.
> >
> > NO SENSEI!!
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
> Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. Get
> in the game.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Blog: tonymccray.wordpress.com
Photos: tonymccray.smugmug.com

Mike Murray

It strikes me that the people discussing the price here do not realize that
the price of a product are only in part determined by the cost to bring it
to market. The more important determinant is the market value; i.e. what
people are willing to pay. Arguably there might be even more racers at PIR
if the price was lower but there are lots there now. Lots of people are
willing to pay this price. Yes, money is being made but that is the point.
Races are not put on for only altruistic reasons, nor should they be. If
the price is too high then just don't buy. After all, we are not talking
staples of life here.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of T B
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 23:57 PM
To: cmurray@obra.org; 'Cobra Kai'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for myself. AND WOW!!! This past PIR
was a low attendance. According to the numbers given and all, it was only a
profit of about 330 bucks. On nights such as the Tuesday prior, it seems to
be almost 1300 dollar profit for one race. That seems a ridiculous amount
for a weekly race to profit when single day races struggle to break even. A
weekly series should focus on being affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats
15 bucks. But it makes people like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it
can be squeezed into an ever tight budget.

My math;

300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials = Give estimate of 550 Dollars
550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders (lets say 150) = 337.5
dollars for insurance
Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50 dollars (which i have to admit
is a pretty hefty bill to have on a weekly basis. its actually almost
outrageous and makes it a wonder it can occur)

So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to be a fair average to estimate
if not a low average for the entire season).

150 x 15 = 2,250 gross

2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit for ONE night. WOW!!! I
mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't make
an error in my math)

Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)

I just had to do the math just for s and g's and out of boredom

_____

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700

Part of the problem is the expense.
The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck rental is $50,
the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I would imagine
that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first rider shows up. It costs
$2.25 per person for the liability insurance and surcharges.

There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and the race
organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much less then PIR. It
is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.

Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there will be no
events for you to race.

Candi

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of r r
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
To: Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been pondering
over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every Tuesday? That seems a
little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some ungodly amount to use
the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced for what it is.
Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are not in Portland
for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a month. At
least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5 bucks to
race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and everything
there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that PIR wants money
for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no reason a weekly
series race should cost almost as much as other events that are only held
once a year.

Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.

_____

> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while practicing
self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did not realize that 4's
can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now be paying less that $1 per mile,
he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners of PIR but still feels sorry
for Cat V.
>
> NO SENSEI!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.

_____

Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!

T B

Further math

Multiple that by 20 PIRs in a season...thats 27,250 dollars net profit for the entire PIR series. Maybe we should start having cash purses at these or something. I mean, shoot, i work 40 hrs a week, and have a bachelors degree, and only make 22,000. Dang. I chose the wrong profession.

From: bikexcr@hotmail.com
To: cmurray@obra.org; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 23:56:47 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for myself. AND WOW!!! This past PIR was a low attendance. According to the numbers given and all, it was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On nights such as the Tuesday prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar profit for one race. That seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to profit when single day races struggle to break even. A weekly series should focus on being affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15 bucks. But it makes people like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it can be squeezed into an ever tight budget.

My math;

300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials = Give estimate of 550 Dollars
550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders (lets say 150) = 337.5 dollars for insurance
Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50 dollars (which i have to admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a weekly basis. its actually almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can occur)

So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to be a fair average to estimate if not a low average for the entire season).

150 x 15 = 2,250 gross

2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit for ONE night. WOW!!! I mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't make an error in my math)

Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)

I just had to do the math just for s and g's and out of boredom

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700

Part of the problem is the expense.
The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck
rental is $50, the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I
would imagine that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first rider shows
up. It costs $2.25 per person for the liability insurance and
surcharges.

There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and
the race organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much less then PIR.
It is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.

Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there
will be no events for you to race.

Candi

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of r r
Sent:
Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
To: Cobra Kai;
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
retraction

I am going to take this email as an opportunity
this jedi has been pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every
Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some
ungodly amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced
for what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are
not in Portland for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a
month. At least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5
bucks to race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and
everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that PIR wants
money for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no reason a weekly
series race should cost almost as much as other events that are only held once a
year.

Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over
time.

> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> From:
cobrakai43@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat]
Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Cobra Kai would like to retract
comments. Flyer was read while practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown
belt and he did not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now
be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners
of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
>
> NO SENSEI!!
>

> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing
list
> obra@list.obra.org
>
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.

Express yourself wherever you are. Mobilize!

_________________________________________________________________
Spell a grand slam in this game where word skill meets World Series. Get in the game.
http://club.live.com/word_slugger.aspx?icid=word_slugger_wlhm_admod_april08

T B

Ok. I did the math. I just had to see for myself. AND WOW!!! This past PIR was a low attendance. According to the numbers given and all, it was only a profit of about 330 bucks. On nights such as the Tuesday prior, it seems to be almost 1300 dollar profit for one race. That seems a ridiculous amount for a weekly race to profit when single day races struggle to break even. A weekly series should focus on being affordable. Yes, to most of yall, whats 15 bucks. But it makes people like me, broke and starving, ponder whether it can be squeezed into an ever tight budget.

My math;

300 for PIR + 50 for the truck + Officials = Give estimate of 550 Dollars
550 + 2.25 (x) where X is number of riders (lets say 150) = 337.5 dollars for insurance
Total cost of event is 337.5 + 550 = 887.50 dollars (which i have to admit is a pretty hefty bill to have on a weekly basis. its actually almost outrageous and makes it a wonder it can occur)

So, taken there are 150 riders (which seems to be a fair average to estimate if not a low average for the entire season).

150 x 15 = 2,250 gross

2,250 - 887.50 = 1,362.50 dollars net profit for ONE night. WOW!!! I mean...WOW!!! Im in SHOCK! I need this job ASAP!!! (assuming i didn't make an error in my math)

Am i making anyone's water boil yet :)

I just had to do the math just for s and g's and out of boredom

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700

Part of the problem is the expense.
The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck
rental is $50, the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I
would imagine that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first rider shows
up. It costs $2.25 per person for the liability insurance and
surcharges.

There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and
the race organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much less then PIR.
It is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.

Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there
will be no events for you to race.

Candi

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of r r
Sent:
Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
To: Cobra Kai;
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
retraction

I am going to take this email as an opportunity
this jedi has been pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every
Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some
ungodly amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced
for what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are
not in Portland for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a
month. At least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5
bucks to race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and
everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that PIR wants
money for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no reason a weekly
series race should cost almost as much as other events that are only held once a
year.

Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over
time.

> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> From:
cobrakai43@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat]
Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Cobra Kai would like to retract
comments. Flyer was read while practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown
belt and he did not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now
be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners
of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
>
> NO SENSEI!!
>

> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing
list
> obra@list.obra.org
>
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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tony kic

i did the math for the tuesday races so far this year, and i'll just say that running it seems like a pretty sweet deal.

From: cmurray@obra.org
To: bikexcr@hotmail.com; cobrakai43@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 21:27:49 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

Part of the problem is the expense.
The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck
rental is $50, the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I
would imagine that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first rider shows
up. It costs $2.25 per person for the liability insurance and
surcharges.

There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and
the race organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much less then PIR.
It is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.

Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there
will be no events for you to race.

Candi

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of r r
Sent:
Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
To: Cobra Kai;
obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR
retraction

I am going to take this email as an opportunity
this jedi has been pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every
Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some
ungodly amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced
for what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are
not in Portland for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a
month. At least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5
bucks to race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and
everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that PIR wants
money for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no reason a weekly
series race should cost almost as much as other events that are only held once a
year.

Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over
time.

> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> From:
cobrakai43@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat]
Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Cobra Kai would like to retract
comments. Flyer was read while practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown
belt and he did not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now
be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners
of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
>
> NO SENSEI!!
>

> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing
list
> obra@list.obra.org
>
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe:
obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.

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david baker

Yeah,
and Safeway should have better bread!
----- Original Message -----
From: r r
To: Cobra Kai ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some ungodly amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced for what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are not in Portland for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a month. At least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5 bucks to race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that PIR wants money for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no reason a weekly series race should cost almost as much as other events that are only held once a year.

Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
>
> NO SENSEI!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Candi Murray

Part of the problem is the expense.
The PIR track costs almost $300 a night to rent. The truck rental is $50,
the first aid person and the officials all get paid. So I would imagine
that the cost for a PIR is $550 before the first rider shows up. It costs
$2.25 per person for the liability insurance and surcharges.

There is no charge to use Alpenrose. We do not use the truck and the race
organizer is a first aid provider, so the costs are much less then PIR. It
is only $5 entry fee for juniors, adults pay $10.00.

Do the math. If the race organizer doe snot make a profit there will be no
events for you to race.

Candi

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of r r
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:03 PM
To: Cobra Kai; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction

I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been pondering
over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every Tuesday? That seems a
little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some ungodly amount to use
the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced for what it is.
Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are not in Portland
for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a month. At
least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5 bucks to
race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and everything
there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that PIR wants money
for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no reason a weekly
series race should cost almost as much as other events that are only held
once a year.

Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.

_____

> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while practicing
self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did not realize that 4's
can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now be paying less that $1 per mile,
he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners of PIR but still feels sorry
for Cat V.
>
> NO SENSEI!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

Make i'm yours. Create a custom banner to support your cause.

r r

I am going to take this email as an opportunity this jedi has been pondering over about PIR as well....Why 15 bucks a shot every Tuesday? That seems a little steep for a weekly event. Unless PIR wants some ungodly amount to use the venue, 15 almost seems like a drastically over priced for what it is. Yes, i know you can buy a season pass, but some of us are not in Portland for the entire PIR season, but want to do more than one PIR a month. At least the Eugene weekly series is 10, But by far the best deal is 5 bucks to race on the track. Now thats a steal. And there are officials and everything there just like PIR, the only possible difference is that PIR wants money for us being there. But as far as i see it, there is no reason a weekly series race should cost almost as much as other events that are only held once a year.

Just some of my thoughts and others that i have gathered over time.

> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:51:51 -0700
> From: cobrakai43@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Tuesday PIR retraction
>
> Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.
>
> NO SENSEI!!
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Make i'm yours.  Create a custom banner to support your cause.
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Cobra Kai

Cobra Kai would like to retract comments. Flyer was read while practicing self-asphyxiation with Miyagi's brown belt and he did not realize that 4's can race with 3's. Since Cobra Kai will now be paying less that $1 per mile, he may attend. Cobra Kai apologizes to owners of PIR but still feels sorry for Cat V.

NO SENSEI!!