Malcolm Johnson

Count me in for the "Kilo Club"... let's preserve the Alp!

Candi Murray

Mike and I are going to go down and do some patching at the velodrome today
around 11, if anyone has any extra time ;-)

Candi

Luciano bailey

you tell em Mike it is about the programs I would bet my last buck if you had an accessible venue with world class purses riders would flock here from all over the world.Key words purses in 1904 the elite purse was 10,000 this is doable today with the right partners and compliment that with a $500 amateur prize list the attendance would be so large we would have field limit issues.
I would also stress having an event partner such as roller derby would not only be fun to watch but comes with it's own fan base. just acouple cents
> From: mike.murray@obra.org
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 22:42:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Velodrome
>
> I have to disagree. I get contacted by lots of groups from around the world
> that want to build a velodrome. Many of them get land and money together
> and could actually have put up a velodrome but they start to think too big
> and then they never complete the deal. The US needs many more cheap but
> usable velodromes to grow the sport. We do not need another velodrome that
> meets world level competition standards but which is underutilized, costs a
> lot of money to run and still loses money. For the cost of one ADT center
> there could have been 10 more usable facilities built. The amount of money
> that USAC pays to use ADT each year could instead build a new velodrome each
> year.
>
> Mike Murray
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of joe cipale
> Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:06 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Cc: Jeff Standish
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Velodrome
>
> I agree with Jeff here.
>
> If we are going to put in a velodrome, then lets make it a Metric drome.
> This
> can be done in place of the 200M drome. The world runs on the metric system.
>
> It is time the US joined the 21st century in this regard.
>
> On Tuesday 07 July 2009 18:54, Jeff Standish wrote:
> > If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it. Seems to me that we in
> > Portland only want things for free. Why don't we dream big on occasion.
> > Seems to me that you get what you pay for.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™: Keep your life in sync.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_BR_life_in_synch_062009

Steve Brown

Max,

Great point and thanks for the support. FYI. Cost for the track is
$250K and we save the building with minimal work. We can operate on
fees and small profitable races.
I am not going to spend my time waiting for the next great velodrome
to drop out of the sky. It happened once in Portland, doubt it will
happen again. As long as I can, I am going to do what I can to
increase the chances that we will all have somewhere to ride when
Alpenrose is at the end of life.
I am always glad to answer any questions anyone has about the future
of building a new venue in the area. Part of the process is to learn
what it takes to fund and operate new tracks. If our efforts are
successful or can help any other group, all the better.

Steve Brown
On Jul 8, 2009, at 6:58 PM, Max Kirchoff wrote:

> I hear you Michael, however those are the same sentiments everyone
> expressed about public use skateboard parks ten years ago. Oregon
> now has hundreds that run under no supervision and without anything
> besides helmet regulations.
>
> These concerns, while legitamite, seem somewhat unnecessary.
>
>
> Max Kirchoff
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone...
>
> On Jul 8, 2009, at 6:15 PM, "Michael O'Hair"
> wrote:
>
>> My 2 cents' worth. When I was racing years ago, I was down at the
>> Alpenrose Velodrome and some guys had come up from San Diego for
>> the AVC. They showed up "early" and saw people riding the track.
>> One of the SanDiegans said, "You mean you guys can just show up
>> and ride the track? There's no lawyers?"
>>
>> The moral of this little tale is pretty simple: If you let the
>> government into the track racing scene, you'll never get it out.
>> They will have more and more "safety" rules and regulations.
>> Things like no riders under 12, no riding without official
>> supervision, and on and on.
>>
>> Also, wait until the "public" hears about the proposal. I predict
>> that there will be a big hooha about wasting government money for
>> an obscure elitist sport that brings in no income. Given the
>> state of the economy, there is sure to be at least a few
>> politicians and pundits who would jump on this with both feet as
>> an "issue."
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Max Kirchoff

I hear you Michael, however those are the same sentiments everyone
expressed about public use skateboard parks ten years ago. Oregon now
has hundreds that run under no supervision and without anything
besides helmet regulations.

These concerns, while legitamite, seem somewhat unnecessary.

Max Kirchoff

Sent from my iPhone...

On Jul 8, 2009, at 6:15 PM, "Michael O'Hair" wrote:

> My 2 cents' worth. When I was racing years ago, I was down at the
> Alpenrose Velodrome and some guys had come up from San Diego for the
> AVC. They showed up "early" and saw people riding the track. One
> of the SanDiegans said, "You mean you guys can just show up and ride
> the track? There's no lawyers?"
>
> The moral of this little tale is pretty simple: If you let the
> government into the track racing scene, you'll never get it out.
> They will have more and more "safety" rules and regulations. Things
> like no riders under 12, no riding without official supervision, and
> on and on.
>
> Also, wait until the "public" hears about the proposal. I predict
> that there will be a big hooha about wasting government money for an
> obscure elitist sport that brings in no income. Given the state of
> the economy, there is sure to be at least a few politicians and
> pundits who would jump on this with both feet as an "issue."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Brian Ratliff

I think what Jeff is saying is: "for God's sake, if you are going to make
the effort to build a velodrome, make it a standard length so we can have
standard competitions on it!" (I'm paraphrasing :) )

I have some of the same sentiment. That said, I'll race on anything as long
as I can go fast and it's open during the winter. It's too early to talk
about this anyway.

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Michael O'Hair wrote:

> My 2 cents' worth. When I was racing years ago, I was down at the
> Alpenrose Velodrome and some guys had come up from San Diego for the AVC.
> They showed up "early" and saw people riding the track. One of the
> SanDiegans said, "You mean you guys can just show up and ride the track?
> There's no lawyers?"
>
> The moral of this little tale is pretty simple: If you let the government
> into the track racing scene, you'll never get it out. They will have more
> and more "safety" rules and regulations. Things like no riders under 12, no
> riding without official supervision, and on and on.
>
> Also, wait until the "public" hears about the proposal. I predict that
> there will be a big hooha about wasting government money for an obscure
> elitist sport that brings in no income. Given the state of the economy,
> there is sure to be at least a few politicians and pundits who would jump on
> this with both feet as an "issue."
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Michael O'Hair

My 2 cents' worth. When I was racing years ago, I was down at the Alpenrose Velodrome and some guys had come up from San Diego for the AVC. They showed up "early" and saw people riding the track. One of the SanDiegans said, "You mean you guys can just show up and ride the track? There's no lawyers?"

The moral of this little tale is pretty simple: If you let the government into the track racing scene, you'll never get it out. They will have more and more "safety" rules and regulations. Things like no riders under 12, no riding without official supervision, and on and on.

Also, wait until the "public" hears about the proposal. I predict that there will be a big hooha about wasting government money for an obscure elitist sport that brings in no income. Given the state of the economy, there is sure to be at least a few politicians and pundits who would jump on this with both feet as an "issue."

Jeff Standish

Anyone who knows me, knows that I love and participate in most bike racing activities. I am just suggesting that if we can accommodate a track length that works to host "World Cup" events that we should try to make that happen. I will ride/race what ever is built. I also realize that cost will be a huge factor, I am not suggesting we build a new building. I am all for kids and new people riding a track, but folks may have to pay a few bucks to participate.

Steve Brown

Joe,

Last time I looked a 200 meter velodrome is metric. To use a point
of reference, in the years that the Olympic Trials and USTF
championships were not held at Hayword Field the T&F program did not
fold in Eugene. The Pepsi and Prefontaine meets are the dual meets
are probably a whole lot more fun for the fans. The whole idea is
not to build a velodrome, it is to grow and share the great program
of track racing we have now.
When Vancouver, WA builds an indoor 250 designed to hold World Cup
and Natz, then I will begin worry that we don't have one in Portland.

Steve Brown

On Jul 7, 2009, at 7:05 PM, joe cipale wrote:

> I agree with Jeff here.
>
> If we are going to put in a velodrome, then lets make it a Metric
> drome. This
> can be done in place of the 200M drome. The world runs on the
> metric system.
> It is time the US joined the 21st century in this regard.
>
> On Tuesday 07 July 2009 18:54, Jeff Standish wrote:
>> If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it. Seems to me that
>> we in
>> Portland only want things for free. Why don't we dream big on
>> occasion.
>> Seems to me that you get what you pay for.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Steve Brown

Jeff,

You address a couple interesting points. There are only a handful
of World Cup events a year. Right now there is a velodrome building
frenzy in Mexico. Not a single one of these new arenas will probably
every hold a velodrome. Yet these places will be full of riders and
events. In thinking about putting a new velodrome in Portland, the
plan all along has been to use community resources. Enough of a
little bit from here and there and we can make something that will
work. If you have ever talked to someone who has built a velodrome
and run a successful program you might get a glimpse of just how big
a dream it is. Having an program where races are well attended with
cheering fans, a kids program. a place where any who wants to learn
to ride the track can, a place for elite athletes and local racers to
train year round and to be able to have this resource centrally
located is a major metropolitan area is a pretty big dream. Because
no one in the richest country on the planet has not been able to do it.
Maybe we do not need to dream big, just dream well.

Steve Brown

On Jul 7, 2009, at 6:54 PM, Jeff Standish wrote:

> If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it. Seems to me that
> we in Portland only want things for free. Why don't we dream big
> on occasion. Seems to me that you get what you pay for.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Mike Murray

It is the program not the facility that attracts riders and events. The
most active programs in the country are not on the best velodromes. In
fact, I think the reverse is probably true.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of joe cipale
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 9:01 PM
To: Gregory Leblanc
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Velodrome

I know that.. .you know that... I meant a larger velodrome, ala what can be
found in LA for the Olympics. ut I know what Jeff is referring to. Why build

a smal velodrome that will only atrract local events when an Olympic size
venue will see more usage with (possible) events like Six-Day events drawing

international fields. It was a complete brain fart on my part.

Joe

On Tuesday 07 July 2009 19:22, you wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:05 PM, joe cipale wrote:
> > I agree with Jeff here.
> >
> > If we are going to put in a velodrome, then lets make it a Metric drome.
> > This can be done in place of the 200M drome. The world runs on the
metric
> > system. It is time the US joined the 21st century in this regard.
>
> Uhm, maybe I'm missing something here, but last time I checked, 200
> METERS was a METRIC distance. OTOH, I have no idea what is meant by a
> "World Cup distance". I personally don't expect funding for this
> thing to happen, but ANY indoor velodrome in Portland would almost
> certainly have plenty of use and community support, assuming that fees
> could be reasonable. McMenamins on site might generate some revenue,
> and provide some entertainment while you're eating dinner, or enjoying
> a tasty brew.
> Greg
>
> > On Tuesday 07 July 2009 18:54, Jeff Standish wrote:
> >> If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it.  Seems to me that we in
> >> Portland only want things for free.  Why don't we dream big on
occasion.
> >> Seems to me that you get what you pay for.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mike Murray

I have to disagree. I get contacted by lots of groups from around the world
that want to build a velodrome. Many of them get land and money together
and could actually have put up a velodrome but they start to think too big
and then they never complete the deal. The US needs many more cheap but
usable velodromes to grow the sport. We do not need another velodrome that
meets world level competition standards but which is underutilized, costs a
lot of money to run and still loses money. For the cost of one ADT center
there could have been 10 more usable facilities built. The amount of money
that USAC pays to use ADT each year could instead build a new velodrome each
year.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of joe cipale
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 7:06 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Cc: Jeff Standish
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Velodrome

I agree with Jeff here.

If we are going to put in a velodrome, then lets make it a Metric drome.
This
can be done in place of the 200M drome. The world runs on the metric system.

It is time the US joined the 21st century in this regard.

On Tuesday 07 July 2009 18:54, Jeff Standish wrote:
> If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it. Seems to me that we in
> Portland only want things for free. Why don't we dream big on occasion.
> Seems to me that you get what you pay for.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

joe cipale

I know that.. .you know that... I meant a larger velodrome, ala what can be
found in LA for the Olympics. ut I know what Jeff is referring to. Why build
a smal velodrome that will only atrract local events when an Olympic size
venue will see more usage with (possible) events like Six-Day events drawing
international fields. It was a complete brain fart on my part.

Joe

On Tuesday 07 July 2009 19:22, you wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:05 PM, joe cipale wrote:
> > I agree with Jeff here.
> >
> > If we are going to put in a velodrome, then lets make it a Metric drome.
> > This can be done in place of the 200M drome. The world runs on the metric
> > system. It is time the US joined the 21st century in this regard.
>
> Uhm, maybe I'm missing something here, but last time I checked, 200
> METERS was a METRIC distance. OTOH, I have no idea what is meant by a
> "World Cup distance". I personally don't expect funding for this
> thing to happen, but ANY indoor velodrome in Portland would almost
> certainly have plenty of use and community support, assuming that fees
> could be reasonable. McMenamins on site might generate some revenue,
> and provide some entertainment while you're eating dinner, or enjoying
> a tasty brew.
> Greg
>
> > On Tuesday 07 July 2009 18:54, Jeff Standish wrote:
> >> If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it.  Seems to me that we in
> >> Portland only want things for free.  Why don't we dream big on occasion.
> >> Seems to me that you get what you pay for.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Kevin Mansker

It is going to be a metric track. 200m long.

I'm in full support of NOT having it be a world class track. I don't know how many of you have been. To ADT (where Worlds has been ran,) but it the most hostile, sterile feeling place I have ever been to. The main thing I love about Alpenrose is the community. A good quality 200m would attract all the top trackies from across the country for winter training. There is only 2 indoor tracks around. One of them costs a stupid amount to ride, and the other is far too dangerious to ride on fast.
------Original Message------
From: joe cipale
Sender: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: Obra
Cc: Jeff Standish
Sent: Jul 7, 2009 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Velodrome

I agree with Jeff here.

If we are going to put in a velodrome, then lets make it a Metric drome. This
can be done in place of the 200M drome. The world runs on the metric system.
It is time the US joined the 21st century in this regard.

On Tuesday 07 July 2009 18:54, Jeff Standish wrote:
> If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it. Seems to me that we in
> Portland only want things for free. Why don't we dream big on occasion.
> Seems to me that you get what you pay for.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Gregory Leblanc

On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:05 PM, joe cipale wrote:
> I agree with Jeff here.
>
> If we are going to put in a velodrome, then lets make it a Metric drome. This
> can be done in place of the 200M drome. The world runs on the metric system.
> It is time the US joined the 21st century in this regard.

Uhm, maybe I'm missing something here, but last time I checked, 200
METERS was a METRIC distance. OTOH, I have no idea what is meant by a
"World Cup distance". I personally don't expect funding for this
thing to happen, but ANY indoor velodrome in Portland would almost
certainly have plenty of use and community support, assuming that fees
could be reasonable. McMenamins on site might generate some revenue,
and provide some entertainment while you're eating dinner, or enjoying
a tasty brew.
Greg

> On Tuesday 07 July 2009 18:54, Jeff Standish wrote:
>> If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it.  Seems to me that we in
>> Portland only want things for free.  Why don't we dream big on occasion.
>> Seems to me that you get what you pay for.

joe cipale

I agree with Jeff here.

If we are going to put in a velodrome, then lets make it a Metric drome. This
can be done in place of the 200M drome. The world runs on the metric system.
It is time the US joined the 21st century in this regard.

On Tuesday 07 July 2009 18:54, Jeff Standish wrote:
> If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it. Seems to me that we in
> Portland only want things for free. Why don't we dream big on occasion.
> Seems to me that you get what you pay for.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jeff Standish

If we can't be World Cup distance, don't do it. Seems to me that we in Portland only want things for free. Why don't we dream big on occasion. Seems to me that you get what you pay for.

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

my perspective (worth ?)

If you really want the velodrome to allow access to all economic groups, it
should be located near good mass transit, be it central city area or burbs.
If you put it in Tigard, Salem or Corvallis the main group to use it will be
those communities and or the individuals that can afford to drive to the
track. If it is located in the Beaverton/Hillsboro, Gresham or (coming up)
in Sunnyside area max corridor, kids from all over the metro area will be
able to get on a train and go to the velodrome and not need to deal with a
car. Kids right now use the bus system and bikes to get to the skateboard
parks for the thrills... I bet a velodrome would be another excuse to head
out for fun with friends. It is wonderful when parents are part of the
cycling experience, but kids also like to be able to do things on their own
(feel empowered). Looking at it from that perspective will allow both kids
and adults to easily access the velodrome. At least I have not heard
anyone talk about putting it out near Hermiston as part of a big NASCAR fun
park. At least not yet.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Hormann"
To: "Luciano bailey" ;
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 5:59 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

>I agree with you that supporting the fan base and getting people to come
> watch is key to a velodrome being a success. However, I'm not sure I
> necessarily agree that an analysis would show that its easier to get
> people
> into city center events. I don't think there's enough data in the PDX area
> to show this, particularly since there aren't that many venues outside of
> the city to compare (Rose Garden, etc. are already in the city.)
> Certainly,
> the huge crowd at the Cross Crusade events in Hillsboro should show that
> people are willing to travel-- if what they get upon arrival is a good
> show.
> Regarding tracks in the Major Taylor days; There are some big differences
> between populations then and now, for one suburbs didn't really exist, so
> it
> was natural that tracks, usually board tracks that were dismantled and
> moved
> to the next town with each race, were set up in the city centers. In the
> end, you may be entirely right. However, it will be important to do a
> thorough analysis of the market, both the potential users and spectators,
> and the costs of the site, construction, etc., as this will be a big
> ticket
> items if it happens. In the end, I think we are all on the same sheet of
> music, we all want a new track to succeed and be an asset to the WHOLE
> community!
>
> Doug
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luciano bailey [mailto:rideon1@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 12:37 AM
> To: djhormann@verizon.net; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
>
> Not overlooking Hillsboro at all if it turns out to be the only option
> what
> becomes key in promoting not only big events but local regional is access
> and visibilty. Being easy to reach is the location and demographic of of
> the
> surrounding population. Marketing analasis of venued events in the
> Portland
> metro would clearly show it is easier to get patrons to attend city center
> events than events at outlying venues. Following the model set at the turn
> of the century most tracks were located in city centers newark NJ, philly
> etc. Unlike some of the more modern locations trexlertown, for one which
> are
> not accessable and play a major part in the loss of fan base and ability
> to
> attrach new participants. Attrachting new participants is key to the
> future
> of the sport unlike road racing which by it's complex criteria for
> participation has seen numbers accross demographic lines continue to be an
> elitist sport open to the privilaged few who can afford it. Track racing
> finds it's roots with the common man ,bike messengers lured to tracks by
> the
> huge purses, the sporting ground where the blue collar met the elite. This
> marriage of financiers and athletes was one of the greatest times in
> sports
> history. So when we plan the future of this sport inclusion has to be a
> focus for the fan base to have any life span. For a smaller more recent
> and
> local model look at the success of the local roller derby ladies they have
> shed light on what can be done with good local outreach and an inclusive
> outlook on marketing their event.
>
>>From: "Doug Hormann"
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>>Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:44:56 -0700
>>
>>Hey, we are in Metro, I've even got a map! Okay, I know you Portland folks
>>think you fall of the edge of the world if you go past Sylvan Hill, but
>>look
>>at the big empty area next to Hillsboro Stadium where Cross Crusade runs.
>>You could easily put a velodrome there, it already has lots of parking and
>>easy access to Hwy. 26, and would still have a great venue for cross. Also
>>lots of hotel space nearby. If in proposing a covered velodrome with the
>>idea of bringing in some major events, these things will need to be taken
>>into consideration. As far as the population thing goes, Washington County
>>will likely pass Multnomah County by 2020, only 13 years from now and even
>>closer by the time a velodrome would be built. Also, have you checked the
>>price of land in Multnomah County lately?
>>
>>Doug H.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Luciano bailey [mailto:rideon1@hotmail.com]
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:23 AM
>>To: sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com; djhormann@verizon.net
>>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>>
>>
>>No offense but I barely want to go to Beaverton as it is keep it metro.
>>
>>
>> >From: Steve Brown
>> >To: Doug Hormann
>> >CC: obra@list.obra.org
>> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>> >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:56:00 -0700
>> >
>> >In 2040 you are welcome to do anything you want.
>> >On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Doug Hormann wrote:
>> >
>> >>Given the proposed stats for 2040, I vote we build it in Hillsboro.:)
>> >>
>> >>Doug Hormann
>> >>-----Original Message-----
>> >>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> >>Behalf Of Rick Johnson
>> >>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:12 PM
>> >>To: KO Kevin; kevin@verboort.org
>> >>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> >>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>> >>
>> >>2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
>> >>Multnomah 662,400
>> >>Washington 449,250
>> >>Clackamas 340,000
>> >>Lane 323,950
>> >>Marion 286,300
>> >>Jackson 182,200
>> >>Deschutes 116,600
>> >>Linn 103,350
>> >>Douglas 100,500
>> >>Yamhill 85,500
>> >>2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
>> >>Washington 920,852
>> >>Multnomah 842,009
>> >>Clackamas 620,703
>> >>Lane 471,511
>> >>Marion 448,671
>> >>Jackson 297,496
>> >>Deschutes 257,088
>> >>Yamhill 166,776
>> >>Linn 146,260
>> >>Douglas 140,619
>> >>Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>KO Kevin wrote:
>> >>>Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in Oregon.
>> >>>Yes, it's larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing that
>> >>>separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a
>> >>>lot
>> >>>more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/ Tacoma or
>> >>>Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has
>>been
>> >>>talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
>> >>>And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars
>>and
>> >>>cents.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>I don't doubt that the population of our area can support a
>> >>>velodrome.
>> >>>I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding support
>> >>>for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more likely
>>to
>> >>>yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector put up
>>the
>> >>>land and provide management/maintenance services through a parks
>> >>>district, and funding for design and construction be raised through
>> >>>private donors.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>I would love to see something like this gain momentum in Eugene/
>> >>>Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Kevin Ko
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra- bounces@list.obra.org]
>>On
>> >>>Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
>> >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
>> >>>To: obra@list.obra.org
>> >>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem
>> >>>is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene-
>> >>>Springfield
>> >>>is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well
>>say
>> >>>Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If
>>by
>> >>>centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
>> >>>either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland
>>metro
>> >>>area that skews your claim.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down
>> >>>to
>> >>>dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close
>>enough
>> >>>to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either
>>through
>> >>>tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all
>> >>>three.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
>>Probably.
>> >>>
>> >>>Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help
>> >>>clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Kevin
>> >>>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >Doug Turnbull wrote:
>> >>> > After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>> >>> >velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
>> >>> >Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
>> >>> >second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
>> >>> >and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
>> >>> >proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>> >>> >wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
>> >>> >were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
>> >>> >one here?
>> >>> >
>> >>> >-Doug
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Finding fabulous fares is fun.
>> >>>Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
>> >>>and hotel bargains.
>> >>>
>> >>>_______________________________________________
>> >>>OBRA mailing list
>> >>>obra@list.obra.org
>> >>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> >>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >>>
>> >>_______________________________________________
>> >>OBRA mailing list
>> >>obra@list.obra.org
>> >>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> >>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> >
>>
>>
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >OBRA mailing list
>> >obra@list.obra.org
>> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Doug Hormann

I agree with you that supporting the fan base and getting people to come
watch is key to a velodrome being a success. However, I'm not sure I
necessarily agree that an analysis would show that its easier to get people
into city center events. I don't think there's enough data in the PDX area
to show this, particularly since there aren't that many venues outside of
the city to compare (Rose Garden, etc. are already in the city.) Certainly,
the huge crowd at the Cross Crusade events in Hillsboro should show that
people are willing to travel-- if what they get upon arrival is a good show.
Regarding tracks in the Major Taylor days; There are some big differences
between populations then and now, for one suburbs didn't really exist, so it
was natural that tracks, usually board tracks that were dismantled and moved
to the next town with each race, were set up in the city centers. In the
end, you may be entirely right. However, it will be important to do a
thorough analysis of the market, both the potential users and spectators,
and the costs of the site, construction, etc., as this will be a big ticket
items if it happens. In the end, I think we are all on the same sheet of
music, we all want a new track to succeed and be an asset to the WHOLE
community!

Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: Luciano bailey [mailto:rideon1@hotmail.com]
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 12:37 AM
To: djhormann@verizon.net; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

Not overlooking Hillsboro at all if it turns out to be the only option what
becomes key in promoting not only big events but local regional is access
and visibilty. Being easy to reach is the location and demographic of of the
surrounding population. Marketing analasis of venued events in the Portland
metro would clearly show it is easier to get patrons to attend city center
events than events at outlying venues. Following the model set at the turn
of the century most tracks were located in city centers newark NJ, philly
etc. Unlike some of the more modern locations trexlertown, for one which are
not accessable and play a major part in the loss of fan base and ability to
attrach new participants. Attrachting new participants is key to the future
of the sport unlike road racing which by it's complex criteria for
participation has seen numbers accross demographic lines continue to be an
elitist sport open to the privilaged few who can afford it. Track racing
finds it's roots with the common man ,bike messengers lured to tracks by the
huge purses, the sporting ground where the blue collar met the elite. This
marriage of financiers and athletes was one of the greatest times in sports
history. So when we plan the future of this sport inclusion has to be a
focus for the fan base to have any life span. For a smaller more recent and
local model look at the success of the local roller derby ladies they have
shed light on what can be done with good local outreach and an inclusive
outlook on marketing their event.

>From: "Doug Hormann"
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:44:56 -0700
>
>Hey, we are in Metro, I've even got a map! Okay, I know you Portland folks
>think you fall of the edge of the world if you go past Sylvan Hill, but
>look
>at the big empty area next to Hillsboro Stadium where Cross Crusade runs.
>You could easily put a velodrome there, it already has lots of parking and
>easy access to Hwy. 26, and would still have a great venue for cross. Also
>lots of hotel space nearby. If in proposing a covered velodrome with the
>idea of bringing in some major events, these things will need to be taken
>into consideration. As far as the population thing goes, Washington County
>will likely pass Multnomah County by 2020, only 13 years from now and even
>closer by the time a velodrome would be built. Also, have you checked the
>price of land in Multnomah County lately?
>
>Doug H.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Luciano bailey [mailto:rideon1@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:23 AM
>To: sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com; djhormann@verizon.net
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
>
>No offense but I barely want to go to Beaverton as it is keep it metro.
>
>
> >From: Steve Brown
> >To: Doug Hormann
> >CC: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
> >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:56:00 -0700
> >
> >In 2040 you are welcome to do anything you want.
> >On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Doug Hormann wrote:
> >
> >>Given the proposed stats for 2040, I vote we build it in Hillsboro.:)
> >>
> >>Doug Hormann
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> >>Behalf Of Rick Johnson
> >>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:12 PM
> >>To: KO Kevin; kevin@verboort.org
> >>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> >>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
> >>
> >>2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
> >>Multnomah 662,400
> >>Washington 449,250
> >>Clackamas 340,000
> >>Lane 323,950
> >>Marion 286,300
> >>Jackson 182,200
> >>Deschutes 116,600
> >>Linn 103,350
> >>Douglas 100,500
> >>Yamhill 85,500
> >>2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
> >>Washington 920,852
> >>Multnomah 842,009
> >>Clackamas 620,703
> >>Lane 471,511
> >>Marion 448,671
> >>Jackson 297,496
> >>Deschutes 257,088
> >>Yamhill 166,776
> >>Linn 146,260
> >>Douglas 140,619
> >>Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
> >>
> >>
> >>KO Kevin wrote:
> >>>Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in Oregon.
> >>>Yes, it?s larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing that
> >>>separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a lot
> >>>more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/ Tacoma or
> >>>Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has
>been
> >>>talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
> >>>And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars
>and
> >>>cents.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I don?t doubt that the population of our area can support a velodrome.
> >>>I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding support
> >>>for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more likely
>to
> >>>yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector put up
>the
> >>>land and provide management/maintenance services through a parks
> >>>district, and funding for design and construction be raised through
> >>>private donors.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I would love to see something like this gain momentum in Eugene/
> >>>Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Kevin Ko
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra- bounces@list.obra.org]
>On
> >>>Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
> >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
> >>>To: obra@list.obra.org
> >>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem
> >>>is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene- Springfield
> >>>is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well
>say
> >>>Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If
>by
> >>>centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
> >>>either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland
>metro
> >>>area that skews your claim.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down to
> >>>dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close
>enough
> >>>to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either
>through
> >>>tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all
> >>>three.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
>Probably.
> >>>
> >>>Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help
> >>>clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Kevin
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >Doug Turnbull wrote:
> >>> > After reading all these excited emails about building two new
> >>> >velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
> >>> >Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
> >>> >second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
> >>> >and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
> >>> >proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
> >>> >wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
> >>> >were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
> >>> >one here?
> >>> >
> >>> >-Doug
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> >>>Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
> >>>and hotel bargains.
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>OBRA mailing list
> >>>obra@list.obra.org
> >>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>OBRA mailing list
> >>obra@list.obra.org
> >>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Luciano bailey

Not overlooking Hillsboro at all if it turns out to be the only option what
becomes key in promoting not only big events but local regional is access
and visibilty. Being easy to reach is the location and demographic of of the
surrounding population. Marketing analasis of venued events in the Portland
metro would clearly show it is easier to get patrons to attend city center
events than events at outlying venues. Following the model set at the turn
of the century most tracks were located in city centers newark NJ, philly
etc. Unlike some of the more modern locations trexlertown, for one which are
not accessable and play a major part in the loss of fan base and ability to
attrach new participants. Attrachting new participants is key to the future
of the sport unlike road racing which by it's complex criteria for
participation has seen numbers accross demographic lines continue to be an
elitist sport open to the privilaged few who can afford it. Track racing
finds it's roots with the common man ,bike messengers lured to tracks by the
huge purses, the sporting ground where the blue collar met the elite. This
marriage of financiers and athletes was one of the greatest times in sports
history. So when we plan the future of this sport inclusion has to be a
focus for the fan base to have any life span. For a smaller more recent and
local model look at the success of the local roller derby ladies they have
shed light on what can be done with good local outreach and an inclusive
outlook on marketing their event.

>From: "Doug Hormann"
>To:
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2007 21:44:56 -0700
>
>Hey, we are in Metro, I've even got a map! Okay, I know you Portland folks
>think you fall of the edge of the world if you go past Sylvan Hill, but
>look
>at the big empty area next to Hillsboro Stadium where Cross Crusade runs.
>You could easily put a velodrome there, it already has lots of parking and
>easy access to Hwy. 26, and would still have a great venue for cross. Also
>lots of hotel space nearby. If in proposing a covered velodrome with the
>idea of bringing in some major events, these things will need to be taken
>into consideration. As far as the population thing goes, Washington County
>will likely pass Multnomah County by 2020, only 13 years from now and even
>closer by the time a velodrome would be built. Also, have you checked the
>price of land in Multnomah County lately?
>
>Doug H.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Luciano bailey [mailto:rideon1@hotmail.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:23 AM
>To: sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com; djhormann@verizon.net
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
>
>No offense but I barely want to go to Beaverton as it is keep it metro.
>
>
> >From: Steve Brown
> >To: Doug Hormann
> >CC: obra@list.obra.org
> >Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
> >Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:56:00 -0700
> >
> >In 2040 you are welcome to do anything you want.
> >On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Doug Hormann wrote:
> >
> >>Given the proposed stats for 2040, I vote we build it in Hillsboro.:)
> >>
> >>Doug Hormann
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> >>Behalf Of Rick Johnson
> >>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:12 PM
> >>To: KO Kevin; kevin@verboort.org
> >>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> >>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
> >>
> >>2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
> >>Multnomah 662,400
> >>Washington 449,250
> >>Clackamas 340,000
> >>Lane 323,950
> >>Marion 286,300
> >>Jackson 182,200
> >>Deschutes 116,600
> >>Linn 103,350
> >>Douglas 100,500
> >>Yamhill 85,500
> >>2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
> >>Washington 920,852
> >>Multnomah 842,009
> >>Clackamas 620,703
> >>Lane 471,511
> >>Marion 448,671
> >>Jackson 297,496
> >>Deschutes 257,088
> >>Yamhill 166,776
> >>Linn 146,260
> >>Douglas 140,619
> >>Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
> >>
> >>
> >>KO Kevin wrote:
> >>>Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in Oregon.
> >>>Yes, it?s larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing that
> >>>separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a lot
> >>>more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/ Tacoma or
> >>>Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has
>been
> >>>talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
> >>>And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars
>and
> >>>cents.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I don?t doubt that the population of our area can support a velodrome.
> >>>I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding support
> >>>for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more likely
>to
> >>>yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector put up
>the
> >>>land and provide management/maintenance services through a parks
> >>>district, and funding for design and construction be raised through
> >>>private donors.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>I would love to see something like this gain momentum in Eugene/
> >>>Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Kevin Ko
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra- bounces@list.obra.org]
>On
> >>>Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
> >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
> >>>To: obra@list.obra.org
> >>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem
> >>>is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene- Springfield
> >>>is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well
>say
> >>>Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If
>by
> >>>centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
> >>>either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland
>metro
> >>>area that skews your claim.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down to
> >>>dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close
>enough
> >>>to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either
>through
> >>>tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all
> >>>three.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
>Probably.
> >>>
> >>>Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help
> >>>clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Kevin
> >>>
> >>> >
> >>> >Doug Turnbull wrote:
> >>> > After reading all these excited emails about building two new
> >>> >velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
> >>> >Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
> >>> >second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
> >>> >and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
> >>> >proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
> >>> >wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
> >>> >were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
> >>> >one here?
> >>> >
> >>> >-Doug
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> >>>Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
> >>>and hotel bargains.
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>OBRA mailing list
> >>>obra@list.obra.org
> >>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>OBRA mailing list
> >>obra@list.obra.org
> >>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
> >_______________________________________________
> >OBRA mailing list
> >obra@list.obra.org
> >http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Steve Brown

Doug H,

I may have this wrong, and please correct me if I am not right but
these numbers do not include the Couv. If you add Clark County and
whatever else is over there, I think the epicenter moves a little
closer to downtown PDX. Whether we like it our not, our friends to
the north are part of the mix.

Steve Brown
On Apr 14, 2007, at 9:44 PM, Doug Hormann wrote:

> Hey, we are in Metro, I've even got a map! Okay, I know you
> Portland folks
> think you fall of the edge of the world if you go past Sylvan Hill,
> but look
> at the big empty area next to Hillsboro Stadium where Cross Crusade
> runs.
> You could easily put a velodrome there, it already has lots of
> parking and
> easy access to Hwy. 26, and would still have a great venue for
> cross. Also
> lots of hotel space nearby. If in proposing a covered velodrome
> with the
> idea of bringing in some major events, these things will need to be
> taken
> into consideration. As far as the population thing goes, Washington
> County
> will likely pass Multnomah County by 2020, only 13 years from now
> and even
> closer by the time a velodrome would be built. Also, have you
> checked the
> price of land in Multnomah County lately?
>
> Doug H.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Luciano bailey [mailto:rideon1@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:23 AM
> To: sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com; djhormann@verizon.net
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
>
> No offense but I barely want to go to Beaverton as it is keep it
> metro.
>
>
>> From: Steve Brown
>> To: Doug Hormann
>> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:56:00 -0700
>>
>> In 2040 you are welcome to do anything you want.
>> On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Doug Hormann wrote:
>>
>>> Given the proposed stats for 2040, I vote we build it in
>>> Hillsboro.:)
>>>
>>> Doug Hormann
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
>>> bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Rick Johnson
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:12 PM
>>> To: KO Kevin; kevin@verboort.org
>>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>>>
>>> 2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
>>> Multnomah 662,400
>>> Washington 449,250
>>> Clackamas 340,000
>>> Lane 323,950
>>> Marion 286,300
>>> Jackson 182,200
>>> Deschutes 116,600
>>> Linn 103,350
>>> Douglas 100,500
>>> Yamhill 85,500
>>> 2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
>>> Washington 920,852
>>> Multnomah 842,009
>>> Clackamas 620,703
>>> Lane 471,511
>>> Marion 448,671
>>> Jackson 297,496
>>> Deschutes 257,088
>>> Yamhill 166,776
>>> Linn 146,260
>>> Douglas 140,619
>>> Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
>>>
>>>
>>> KO Kevin wrote:
>>>> Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in
>>>> Oregon.
>>>> Yes, it’s larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing
>>>> that
>>>> separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell
>>>> of a lot
>>>> more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/ Tacoma or
>>>> Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there
>>>> has been
>>>> talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our
>>>> area.
>>>> And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of
>>>> dollars and
>>>> cents.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don’t doubt that the population of our area can support a
>>>> velodrome.
>>>> I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding
>>>> support
>>>> for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more
>>>> likely to
>>>> yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector
>>>> put up the
>>>> land and provide management/maintenance services through a parks
>>>> district, and funding for design and construction be raised
>>>> through
>>>> private donors.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would love to see something like this gain momentum in Eugene/
>>>> Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kevin Ko
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
>>>> bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
>>>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>>>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city,
>>>> Salem
>>>> is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene-
>>>> Springfield
>>>> is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as
>>>> well say
>>>> Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or
>>>> Prineville!) If by
>>>> centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
>>>> either. There is a comparitively large population in the
>>>> Portland metro
>>>> area that skews your claim.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils
>>>> down to
>>>> dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population
>>>> close enough
>>>> to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill,
>>>> either through
>>>> tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all
>>>> three.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
>>>> Probably.
>>>>
>>>> Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with
>>>> dollars.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help
>>>> clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Kevin
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug Turnbull wrote:
>>>>> After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>>>>> velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
>>>>> Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
>>>>> second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling
>>>>> community,
>>>>> and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
>>>>> proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>>>>> wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern
>>>>> Oregon
>>>>> were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of
>>>>> building
>>>>> one here?
>>>>>
>>>>> -Doug
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
>>>> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find
>>>> flight
>>>> and hotel bargains.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Doug Hormann

Hey, we are in Metro, I've even got a map! Okay, I know you Portland folks
think you fall of the edge of the world if you go past Sylvan Hill, but look
at the big empty area next to Hillsboro Stadium where Cross Crusade runs.
You could easily put a velodrome there, it already has lots of parking and
easy access to Hwy. 26, and would still have a great venue for cross. Also
lots of hotel space nearby. If in proposing a covered velodrome with the
idea of bringing in some major events, these things will need to be taken
into consideration. As far as the population thing goes, Washington County
will likely pass Multnomah County by 2020, only 13 years from now and even
closer by the time a velodrome would be built. Also, have you checked the
price of land in Multnomah County lately?

Doug H.

-----Original Message-----
From: Luciano bailey [mailto:rideon1@hotmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 10:23 AM
To: sbrown@stevebrowncompany.com; djhormann@verizon.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

No offense but I barely want to go to Beaverton as it is keep it metro.

>From: Steve Brown
>To: Doug Hormann
>CC: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:56:00 -0700
>
>In 2040 you are welcome to do anything you want.
>On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Doug Hormann wrote:
>
>>Given the proposed stats for 2040, I vote we build it in Hillsboro.:)
>>
>>Doug Hormann
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>Behalf Of Rick Johnson
>>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:12 PM
>>To: KO Kevin; kevin@verboort.org
>>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>>
>>2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
>>Multnomah 662,400
>>Washington 449,250
>>Clackamas 340,000
>>Lane 323,950
>>Marion 286,300
>>Jackson 182,200
>>Deschutes 116,600
>>Linn 103,350
>>Douglas 100,500
>>Yamhill 85,500
>>2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
>>Washington 920,852
>>Multnomah 842,009
>>Clackamas 620,703
>>Lane 471,511
>>Marion 448,671
>>Jackson 297,496
>>Deschutes 257,088
>>Yamhill 166,776
>>Linn 146,260
>>Douglas 140,619
>>Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
>>
>>
>>KO Kevin wrote:
>>>Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in Oregon.
>>>Yes, it?s larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing that
>>>separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a lot
>>>more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/ Tacoma or
>>>Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been
>>>talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
>>>And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars and
>>>cents.
>>>
>>>
>>>I don?t doubt that the population of our area can support a velodrome.
>>>I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding support
>>>for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more likely to
>>>yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector put up the
>>>land and provide management/maintenance services through a parks
>>>district, and funding for design and construction be raised through
>>>private donors.
>>>
>>>
>>>I would love to see something like this gain momentum in Eugene/
>>>Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
>>>
>>>
>>>Kevin Ko
>>>
>>>
>>>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra- bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
>>>To: obra@list.obra.org
>>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>>>
>>>
>>>No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem
>>>is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene- Springfield
>>>is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well say
>>>Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
>>>
>>>
>>>Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If by
>>>centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
>>>either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro
>>>area that skews your claim.
>>>
>>>
>>>Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down to
>>>dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close enough
>>>to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either through
>>>tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all
>>>three.
>>>
>>>
>>>Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene? Probably.
>>>
>>>Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.
>>>
>>>
>>>Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help
>>>clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
>>>
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>>
>>> >
>>> >Doug Turnbull wrote:
>>> > After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>>> >velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
>>> >Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
>>> >second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
>>> >and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
>>> >proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>>> >wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
>>> >were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
>>> >one here?
>>> >
>>> >-Doug
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Finding fabulous fares is fun.
>>>Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
>>>and hotel bargains.
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>OBRA mailing list
>>>obra@list.obra.org
>>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Luciano bailey

No offense but I barely want to go to Beaverton as it is keep it metro.

>From: Steve Brown
>To: Doug Hormann
>CC: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 07:56:00 -0700
>
>In 2040 you are welcome to do anything you want.
>On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Doug Hormann wrote:
>
>>Given the proposed stats for 2040, I vote we build it in Hillsboro.:)
>>
>>Doug Hormann
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>Behalf Of Rick Johnson
>>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:12 PM
>>To: KO Kevin; kevin@verboort.org
>>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>>
>>2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
>>Multnomah 662,400
>>Washington 449,250
>>Clackamas 340,000
>>Lane 323,950
>>Marion 286,300
>>Jackson 182,200
>>Deschutes 116,600
>>Linn 103,350
>>Douglas 100,500
>>Yamhill 85,500
>>2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
>>Washington 920,852
>>Multnomah 842,009
>>Clackamas 620,703
>>Lane 471,511
>>Marion 448,671
>>Jackson 297,496
>>Deschutes 257,088
>>Yamhill 166,776
>>Linn 146,260
>>Douglas 140,619
>>Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
>>
>>
>>KO Kevin wrote:
>>>Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in Oregon.
>>>Yes, it?s larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing that
>>>separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a lot
>>>more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/ Tacoma or
>>>Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been
>>>talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
>>>And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars and
>>>cents.
>>>
>>>
>>>I don?t doubt that the population of our area can support a velodrome.
>>>I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding support
>>>for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more likely to
>>>yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector put up the
>>>land and provide management/maintenance services through a parks
>>>district, and funding for design and construction be raised through
>>>private donors.
>>>
>>>
>>>I would love to see something like this gain momentum in Eugene/
>>>Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
>>>
>>>
>>>Kevin Ko
>>>
>>>
>>>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra- bounces@list.obra.org] On
>>>Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
>>>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
>>>To: obra@list.obra.org
>>>Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>>>
>>>
>>>No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem
>>>is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene- Springfield
>>>is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well say
>>>Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
>>>
>>>
>>>Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If by
>>>centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
>>>either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro
>>>area that skews your claim.
>>>
>>>
>>>Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down to
>>>dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close enough
>>>to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either through
>>>tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all
>>>three.
>>>
>>>
>>>Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene? Probably.
>>>
>>>Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.
>>>
>>>
>>>Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help
>>>clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
>>>
>>>
>>>Kevin
>>>
>>> >
>>> >Doug Turnbull wrote:
>>> > After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>>> >velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
>>> >Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
>>> >second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
>>> >and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
>>> >proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>>> >wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
>>> >were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
>>> >one here?
>>> >
>>> >-Doug
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Finding fabulous fares is fun.
>>>Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
>>>and hotel bargains.
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>OBRA mailing list
>>>obra@list.obra.org
>>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>OBRA mailing list
>>obra@list.obra.org
>>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

T. Kenji Sugahara

Any thoughts about Salem?

45 min. from PDX, 1 hr. from Eugene, 2.5 hours from Bend.

Salem and Eugene are the same size.

Steve Brown

In 2040 you are welcome to do anything you want.
On Apr 9, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Doug Hormann wrote:

> Given the proposed stats for 2040, I vote we build it in Hillsboro.:)
>
> Doug Hormann
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of Rick Johnson
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:12 PM
> To: KO Kevin; kevin@verboort.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
> 2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
> Multnomah 662,400
> Washington 449,250
> Clackamas 340,000
> Lane 323,950
> Marion 286,300
> Jackson 182,200
> Deschutes 116,600
> Linn 103,350
> Douglas 100,500
> Yamhill 85,500
> 2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
> Washington 920,852
> Multnomah 842,009
> Clackamas 620,703
> Lane 471,511
> Marion 448,671
> Jackson 297,496
> Deschutes 257,088
> Yamhill 166,776
> Linn 146,260
> Douglas 140,619
> Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
>
>
> KO Kevin wrote:
>> Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in
>> Oregon. Yes, it’s larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only
>> thing that separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes
>> a hell of a lot more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/
>> Tacoma or Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip.
>> Yes, there has been talk at the grassroots level about building a
>> velodrome in our area. And you are correct that it really comes
>> down to a matter of dollars and cents.
>>
>>
>> I don’t doubt that the population of our area can support a
>> velodrome. I do have concerns whether we can generate the public
>> funding support for such an undertaking. A private/public
>> partnership is more likely to yield results. A reasonable
>> scenario is if the public sector put up the land and provide
>> management/maintenance services through a parks district, and
>> funding for design and construction be raised through private donors.
>>
>>
>> I would love to see something like this gain momentum in Eugene/
>> Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
>>
>>
>> Kevin Ko
>>
>>
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
>> bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>>
>>
>> No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city,
>> Salem is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene-
>> Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You
>> might as well say Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
>>
>>
>> Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!)
>> If by centrally located you mean the center of population, it's
>> not that either. There is a comparitively large population in the
>> Portland metro area that skews your claim.
>>
>>
>> Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils
>> down to dollars and cents. There must be a large enough
>> population close enough to your proposed venue that are willing to
>> foot the bill, either through tax support, or admissions and
>> sponsorships, or combination of all three.
>>
>>
>> Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
>> Probably.
>>
>> Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.
>>
>>
>> Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help
>> clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
>>
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> >
>> >Doug Turnbull wrote:
>> > After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>> >velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
>> >Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
>> >second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
>> >and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
>> >proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>> >wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
>> >were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
>> >one here?
>> >
>> >-Doug
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
>> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find
>> flight and hotel bargains.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

gschreckchat@comcast.net

Yes, good idea, because with that growth, by then, it will be the only place left in Hillsboro that you can ride a bike.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Doug Hormann"

Given the proposed stats for 2040, I vote we build it in Hillsboro.:)

Doug Hormann
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:12 PM
To: KO Kevin; kevin@verboort.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

2000 population top ten ranking, by county:

Multnomah 662,400
Washington 449,250
Clackamas 340,000
Lane 323,950
Marion 286,300
Jackson 182,200
Deschutes 116,600
Linn 103,350
Douglas 100,500
Yamhill 85,500

2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:

Washington 920,852
Multnomah 842,009
Clackamas 620,703
Lane 471,511
Marion 448,671
Jackson 297,496
Deschutes 257,088
Yamhill 166,776
Linn 146,260
Douglas 140,619
Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis

KO Kevin wrote:
Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in Oregon. Yes, it?s larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing that separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area. And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars and cents.
I don?t doubt that the population of our area can support a velodrome. I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding support for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more likely to yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector put up the land and provide management/maintenance services through a parks district, and funding for design and construction be raised through private donors.
I would love to see something like this gain momentum in Eugene/Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
Kevin Ko

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene-Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well say Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If by centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro area that skews your claim.
Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down to dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close enough to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either through tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all three.
Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene? Probably.
Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.
Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
Kevin
>
>Doug Turnbull wrote:
> After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
>Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
>second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
>and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
>proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
>were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
>one here?
>
>-Doug
>

Finding fabulous fares is fun.
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Doug Hormann

Given the proposed stats for 2040, I vote we build it in Hillsboro.:)

Doug Hormann
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]On
Behalf Of Rick Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 7:12 PM
To: KO Kevin; kevin@verboort.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

2000 population top ten ranking, by county:

1.. Multnomah 662,400
2.. Washington 449,250
3.. Clackamas 340,000
4.. Lane 323,950
5.. Marion 286,300
6.. Jackson 182,200
7.. Deschutes 116,600
8.. Linn 103,350
9.. Douglas 100,500
10.. Yamhill 85,500

2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:

1.. Washington 920,852
2.. Multnomah 842,009
3.. Clackamas 620,703
4.. Lane 471,511
5.. Marion 448,671
6.. Jackson 297,496
7.. Deschutes 257,088
8.. Yamhill 166,776
9.. Linn 146,260
10.. Douglas 140,619
Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis

KO Kevin wrote:
Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in Oregon.
Yes, it?s larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing that
separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a lot more
sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or Portland/Salem. We
are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been talk at the grassroots
level about building a velodrome in our area. And you are correct that it
really comes down to a matter of dollars and cents.

I don?t doubt that the population of our area can support a velodrome.
I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding support for
such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more likely to yield
results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector put up the land and
provide management/maintenance services through a parks district, and
funding for design and construction be raised through private donors.

I would love to see something like this gain momentum in
Eugene/Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.

Kevin Ko

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem
is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene-Springfield is
almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well say
Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.

Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If by
centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that either.
There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro area that
skews your claim.

Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down to
dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close enough to
your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either through tax
support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all three.

Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene? Probably.

Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.

Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help
clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.

Kevin

>
>Doug Turnbull wrote:
> After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
>Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
>second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
>and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
>proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
>were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
>one here?
>
>-Doug
>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

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and hotel bargains.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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KO Kevin

Yeah, I know...but I felt that I owe it to Rick to admit I was wrong. I
sent my previous reply from home last night, but when I went to my HUD
data sets this morning I found the following population figures (2003
data):

Portland/Vancouver/Beaverton MSA --- 2,040,279
Salem MSA --- 364,674
Eugene/Springfield MSA --- 330,012
Medford MSA --- 190,380
Bend MSA --- 129,546
Corvallis MSA --- 79,149

Thanks all for your tolerance. Rick, I owe you a beer!

Kevin Ko
Housing Programs Specialist
(541) 726-2302
(541) 741-2763 fax

Development Services
City of Springfield
225 Fifth Street, 97477
http://www.ci.springfield.or.us

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Johnson [mailto:RCJohnson1@attglobal.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:08 PM
To: KO Kevin
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

You call that beating it to death? Come on, quote some numbers to go
with the MSAs if you're going that far... that will truly beating it to
death!
;-)

(I'd like to hear 'em, but perhaps I'm the only one...)

Rick

KO Kevin wrote:

>At the risk of beating this to death, there are 6 Metropolitan
Statistical Areas in Oregon, as determined by the US Department of Urban
Development (In alpha order): Bend MSA, Corvallis MSA,
Eugene-Springfield MSA, Medford MSA, Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton MSA,
Salem MSA. Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton is the most populous (by far)
and Eugene-Springfield is the second most populous MSA in Oregon.
>
>Kevin
>
>________________________
>
>2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
>
>
>1. Multnomah 662,400
>2. Washington 449,250
>3. Clackamas 340,000
>4. Lane 323,950
>5. Marion 286,300
>6. Jackson 182,200
>7. Deschutes 116,600
>8. Linn 103,350
>9. Douglas 100,500
>10. Yamhill 85,500
>
>
>2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
>
>
>1. Washington 920,852
>2. Multnomah 842,009
>3. Clackamas 620,703
>4. Lane 471,511
>5. Marion 448,671
>6. Jackson 297,496
>7. Deschutes 257,088
>8. Yamhill 166,776
>9. Linn 146,260
>10. Douglas 140,619
>
>Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
>
>
>KO Kevin wrote:
>
> Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in
Oregon. Yes, it's larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing
that separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a
lot more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or
Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been
talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars and
cents.
>
>
>
> I don't doubt that the population of our area can support a
velodrome. I do have concerns whether we can generate the public
funding support for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership
is more likely to yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public
sector put up the land and provide management/maintenance services
through a parks district, and funding for design and construction be
raised through private donors.
>
>
>
> I would love to see something like this gain momentum in
Eugene/Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
>
>
>
> Kevin Ko
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
>
>
> No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city,
Salem is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying
Eugene-Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma.
You might as well say Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
>
>
>
> Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!)
If by centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro
area that skews your claim.
>
>
>
> Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils
down to dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population
close enough to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill,
either through tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or
combination of all three.
>
>
>
> Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
Probably.
>
> Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with
dollars.
>
>
>
> Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to
help clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
> >
> >Doug Turnbull wrote:
> > After reading all these excited emails about building
two new
> >velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am
curious as to why
> >Eugene is not one of the proposed sites.
Eugene/Springfield is the
> >second largest city in the state, we have a large
cycling community,
> >and we are centrally located geographically. I
certainly think the
> >proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I
am just
> >wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and
southern Oregon
> >were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been
talk of building
> >one here?
> >
> >-Doug
> >
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>
> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites
to find flight and hotel bargains.
>
>
>________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>

Chris Alling

I don't know I think that men argueing about who's is bigger is a very
relevant conversation.

>From: smclaughry
>To: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:15:08 -0700 (PDT)
>
>Perhaps it's time to re-direct the conversation to a topic more relevant to
>the subject line.
>
>Have you contacted your State Senator in support of Senate Bill 926 yet?
>
>http://www.leg.state.or.us/writelegsltr/
>
>If so, how about contacting the Governor's Office?
>
>Have you visited www.portlandvelodrome.org and pledged your support?
>
>Alternatively, if you feel that your time would be better spent arguing
>about which town deserves the title of "Oregon's Second Largest City", feel
>free.
>
>-stephen
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: Craig Austin
>To: KO Kevin ; Rick Johnson
>; kevin@verboort.org
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:59:22 PM
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
>This is no $hit, hands down, the dumbest argument I've ever seen on this
>email list.
>
>Craig Austin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>Behalf Of KO Kevin
>Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:56 PM
>To: Rick Johnson; kevin@verboort.org
>Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
>At the risk of beating this to death, there are 6 Metropolitan
>Statistical Areas in Oregon, as determined by the US Department of Urban
>Development (In alpha order): Bend MSA, Corvallis MSA,
>Eugene-Springfield MSA, Medford MSA, Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton MSA,
>Salem MSA. Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton is the most populous (by far)
>and Eugene-Springfield is the second most populous MSA in Oregon.
>
>Kevin
>
>________________________
>
>2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
>
>
>1. Multnomah 662,400
>2. Washington 449,250
>3. Clackamas 340,000
>4. Lane 323,950
>5. Marion 286,300
>6. Jackson 182,200
>7. Deschutes 116,600
>8. Linn 103,350
>9. Douglas 100,500
>10. Yamhill 85,500
>
>
>2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
>
>
>1. Washington 920,852
>2. Multnomah 842,009
>3. Clackamas 620,703
>4. Lane 471,511
>5. Marion 448,671
>6. Jackson 297,496
>7. Deschutes 257,088
>8. Yamhill 166,776
>9. Linn 146,260
>10. Douglas 140,619
>
>Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
>ty_Forecast>
>
>KO Kevin wrote:
>
> Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in
>Oregon. Yes, it's larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing
>that separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a
>lot more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or
>Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been
>talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
>And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars and
>cents.
>
>
>
> I don't doubt that the population of our area can support a
>velodrome. I do have concerns whether we can generate the public
>funding support for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership
>is more likely to yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public
>sector put up the land and provide management/maintenance services
>through a parks district, and funding for design and construction be
>raised through private donors.
>
>
>
> I would love to see something like this gain momentum in
>Eugene/Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.
>
>
>
> Kevin Ko
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
>[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
>
>
> No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city,
>Salem is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying
>Eugene-Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma.
>You might as well say Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
>
>
>
> Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!)
>If by centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
>either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro
>area that skews your claim.
>
>
>
> Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils
>down to dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population
>close enough to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill,
>either through tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or
>combination of all three.
>
>
>
> Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
>Probably.
>
> Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with
>dollars.
>
>
>
> Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to
>help clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
> >
> >Doug Turnbull wrote:
> > After reading all these excited emails about building
>two new
> >velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am
>curious as to why
> >Eugene is not one of the proposed sites.
>Eugene/Springfield is the
> >second largest city in the state, we have a large
>cycling community,
> >and we are centrally located geographically. I
>certainly think the
> >proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I
>am just
> >wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and
>southern Oregon
> >were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been
>talk of building
> >one here?
> >
> >-Doug
> >
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>
> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites
>BF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0w
>Nw--%0d%0a> to find flight and hotel bargains.
>
>
>________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________________________
>TV dinner still cooling?
>Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
>http://tv.yahoo.com/
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jakebigham

I don't know...
I have seen some others.
And I would be willing to argue they were dumber.
{Sorry- am effort at humor ; } -jake
On Mar 13, 2007, at 10:59 PM, Craig Austin wrote:

> This is no $hit, hands down, the dumbest argument I've ever seen on
> this
> email list.
>
> Craig Austin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-
> bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of KO Kevin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:56 PM
> To: Rick Johnson; kevin@verboort.org
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
> At the risk of beating this to death, there are 6 Metropolitan
> Statistical Areas in Oregon, as determined by the US Department of
> Urban
> Development (In alpha order): Bend MSA, Corvallis MSA,
> Eugene-Springfield MSA, Medford MSA, Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton MSA,
> Salem MSA. Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton is the most populous (by far)
> and Eugene-Springfield is the second most populous MSA in Oregon.
>
> Kevin
>
> ________________________
>
> 2000 population top ten ranking, by county:
>
>
> 1. Multnomah 662,400
> 2. Washington 449,250
> 3. Clackamas 340,000
> 4. Lane 323,950
> 5. Marion 286,300
> 6. Jackson 182,200
> 7. Deschutes 116,600
> 8. Linn 103,350
> 9. Douglas 100,500
> 10. Yamhill 85,500
>
>
> 2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:
>
>
> 1. Washington 920,852
> 2. Multnomah 842,009
> 3. Clackamas 620,703
> 4. Lane 471,511
> 5. Marion 448,671
> 6. Jackson 297,496
> 7. Deschutes 257,088
> 8. Yamhill 166,776
> 9. Linn 146,260
> 10. Douglas 140,619
>
> Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis
> demographic.shtml#Long_term_Coun
> ty_Forecast>
>
> KO Kevin wrote:
>
> Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in
> Oregon. Yes, it's larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only
> thing
> that separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell
> of a
> lot more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or
> Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has
> been
> talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
> And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of
> dollars and
> cents.
>
>
>
> I don't doubt that the population of our area can support a
> velodrome. I do have concerns whether we can generate the public
> funding support for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership
> is more likely to yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the
> public
> sector put up the land and provide management/maintenance services
> through a parks district, and funding for design and construction be
> raised through private donors.
>
>
>
> I would love to see something like this gain momentum in
> Eugene/Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it
> happen.
>
>
>
> Kevin Ko
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome
>
>
>
> No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city,
> Salem is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying
> Eugene-Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma.
> You might as well say Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.
>
>
>
> Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!)
> If by centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not
> that
> either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland
> metro
> area that skews your claim.
>
>
>
> Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils
> down to dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population
> close enough to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill,
> either through tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or
> combination of all three.
>
>
>
> Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
> Probably.
>
> Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with
> dollars.
>
>
>
> Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to
> help clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
> >
> >Doug Turnbull wrote:
> > After reading all these excited emails about building
> two new
> >velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am
> curious as to why
> >Eugene is not one of the proposed sites.
> Eugene/Springfield is the
> >second largest city in the state, we have a large
> cycling community,
> >and we are centrally located geographically. I
> certainly think the
> >proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I
> am just
> >wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and
> southern Oregon
> >were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been
> talk of building
> >one here?
> >
> >-Doug
> >
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> Finding fabulous fares is fun.
> Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites
> generic-14795097;_ylc=X3oDMTFtNW45amVp
> BF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS
> 0w
> Nw--%0d%0a> to find flight and hotel bargains.
>
>
> ________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

smclaughry

Perhaps it's time to re-direct the conversation to a topic more relevant to the subject line.

Have you contacted your State Senator in support of Senate Bill 926 yet?

http://www.leg.state.or.us/writelegsltr/

If so, how about contacting the Governor's Office?

Have you visited www.portlandvelodrome.org and pledged your support?

Alternatively, if you feel that your time would be better spent arguing about which town deserves the title of "Oregon's Second Largest City", feel free.

-stephen

----- Original Message ----
From: Craig Austin
To: KO Kevin ; Rick Johnson ; kevin@verboort.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 10:59:22 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

This is no $hit, hands down, the dumbest argument I've ever seen on this
email list.

Craig Austin

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of KO Kevin
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:56 PM
To: Rick Johnson; kevin@verboort.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

At the risk of beating this to death, there are 6 Metropolitan
Statistical Areas in Oregon, as determined by the US Department of Urban
Development (In alpha order): Bend MSA, Corvallis MSA,
Eugene-Springfield MSA, Medford MSA, Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton MSA,
Salem MSA. Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton is the most populous (by far)
and Eugene-Springfield is the second most populous MSA in Oregon.

Kevin

________________________

2000 population top ten ranking, by county:

1. Multnomah 662,400
2. Washington 449,250
3. Clackamas 340,000
4. Lane 323,950
5. Marion 286,300
6. Jackson 182,200
7. Deschutes 116,600
8. Linn 103,350
9. Douglas 100,500
10. Yamhill 85,500

2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:

1. Washington 920,852
2. Multnomah 842,009
3. Clackamas 620,703
4. Lane 471,511
5. Marion 448,671
6. Jackson 297,496
7. Deschutes 257,088
8. Yamhill 166,776
9. Linn 146,260
10. Douglas 140,619

Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis

KO Kevin wrote:

Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in
Oregon. Yes, it's larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing
that separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a
lot more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or
Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been
talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars and
cents.

I don't doubt that the population of our area can support a
velodrome. I do have concerns whether we can generate the public
funding support for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership
is more likely to yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public
sector put up the land and provide management/maintenance services
through a parks district, and funding for design and construction be
raised through private donors.

I would love to see something like this gain momentum in
Eugene/Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.

Kevin Ko

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city,
Salem is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying
Eugene-Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma.
You might as well say Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.

Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!)
If by centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro
area that skews your claim.

Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils
down to dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population
close enough to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill,
either through tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or
combination of all three.

Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
Probably.

Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with
dollars.

Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to
help clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.

Kevin

>
>Doug Turnbull wrote:
> After reading all these excited emails about building
two new
>velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am
curious as to why
>Eugene is not one of the proposed sites.
Eugene/Springfield is the
>second largest city in the state, we have a large
cycling community,
>and we are centrally located geographically. I
certainly think the
>proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I
am just
>wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and
southern Oregon
>were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been
talk of building
>one here?
>
>-Doug
>

________________________________

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to find flight and hotel bargains.

________________________________

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____________________________________________________________________________________
TV dinner still cooling?
Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
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Craig Austin

This is no $hit, hands down, the dumbest argument I've ever seen on this
email list.

Craig Austin

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of KO Kevin
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 8:56 PM
To: Rick Johnson; kevin@verboort.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

At the risk of beating this to death, there are 6 Metropolitan
Statistical Areas in Oregon, as determined by the US Department of Urban
Development (In alpha order): Bend MSA, Corvallis MSA,
Eugene-Springfield MSA, Medford MSA, Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton MSA,
Salem MSA. Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton is the most populous (by far)
and Eugene-Springfield is the second most populous MSA in Oregon.

Kevin

________________________

2000 population top ten ranking, by county:

1. Multnomah 662,400
2. Washington 449,250
3. Clackamas 340,000
4. Lane 323,950
5. Marion 286,300
6. Jackson 182,200
7. Deschutes 116,600
8. Linn 103,350
9. Douglas 100,500
10. Yamhill 85,500

2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:

1. Washington 920,852
2. Multnomah 842,009
3. Clackamas 620,703
4. Lane 471,511
5. Marion 448,671
6. Jackson 297,496
7. Deschutes 257,088
8. Yamhill 166,776
9. Linn 146,260
10. Douglas 140,619

Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis

KO Kevin wrote:

Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in
Oregon. Yes, it's larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing
that separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a
lot more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or
Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been
talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars and
cents.

I don't doubt that the population of our area can support a
velodrome. I do have concerns whether we can generate the public
funding support for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership
is more likely to yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public
sector put up the land and provide management/maintenance services
through a parks district, and funding for design and construction be
raised through private donors.

I would love to see something like this gain momentum in
Eugene/Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.

Kevin Ko

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city,
Salem is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying
Eugene-Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma.
You might as well say Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.

Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!)
If by centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro
area that skews your claim.

Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils
down to dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population
close enough to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill,
either through tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or
combination of all three.

Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene?
Probably.

Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with
dollars.

Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to
help clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.

Kevin

>
>Doug Turnbull wrote:
> After reading all these excited emails about building
two new
>velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am
curious as to why
>Eugene is not one of the proposed sites.
Eugene/Springfield is the
>second largest city in the state, we have a large
cycling community,
>and we are centrally located geographically. I
certainly think the
>proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I
am just
>wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and
southern Oregon
>were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been
talk of building
>one here?
>
>-Doug
>

________________________________

Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites
to find flight and hotel bargains.

________________________________

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

KO Kevin

At the risk of beating this to death, there are 6 Metropolitan Statistical Areas in Oregon, as determined by the US Department of Urban Development (In alpha order): Bend MSA, Corvallis MSA, Eugene-Springfield MSA, Medford MSA, Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton MSA, Salem MSA. Portland-Vancouver-Beaverton is the most populous (by far) and Eugene-Springfield is the second most populous MSA in Oregon.

Kevin

________________________

2000 population top ten ranking, by county:

1. Multnomah 662,400
2. Washington 449,250
3. Clackamas 340,000
4. Lane 323,950
5. Marion 286,300
6. Jackson 182,200
7. Deschutes 116,600
8. Linn 103,350
9. Douglas 100,500
10. Yamhill 85,500

2040 estimated population top ten ranking, by county:

1. Washington 920,852
2. Multnomah 842,009
3. Clackamas 620,703
4. Lane 471,511
5. Marion 448,671
6. Jackson 297,496
7. Deschutes 257,088
8. Yamhill 166,776
9. Linn 146,260
10. Douglas 140,619

Source: Oregon Office of Economic Analysis

KO Kevin wrote:

Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in Oregon. Yes, it's larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing that separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area. And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars and cents.

I don't doubt that the population of our area can support a velodrome. I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding support for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more likely to yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector put up the land and provide management/maintenance services through a parks district, and funding for design and construction be raised through private donors.

I would love to see something like this gain momentum in Eugene/Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.

Kevin Ko

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene-Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well say Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.

Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If by centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro area that skews your claim.

Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down to dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close enough to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either through tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all three.

Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene? Probably.

Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.

Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.

Kevin

>
>Doug Turnbull wrote:
> After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
>Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
>second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
>and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
>proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
>were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
>one here?
>
>-Doug
>

________________________________

Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

________________________________

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rick Johnson

2000 population top ten ranking, by county:

1. Multnomah 662,400


2. Washington 449,250


3. Clackamas 340,000


4. Lane 323,950


5. Marion 286,300


6. Jackson 182,200


7. Deschutes 116,600


8. Linn 103,350


9. Douglas 100,500


10. Yamhill 85,500
    
    

1. Washington  920,852


2. Multnomah  842,009


3. Clackamas  620,703


4. Lane  471,511


5. Marion  448,671


6. Jackson  297,496


7. Deschutes  257,088


8. Yamhill  166,776


9. Linn  146,260


10. Douglas  140,619

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Eugene/Springfield
is the second largest
metropolitan area in Oregon. 
Yes, it’s larger than Salem/Keizer.  And because the only thing that
separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a lot
more
sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or Portland/Salem. 
We
are, indeed, joined at the hip.  Yes, there has been talk at the
grassroots
level about building a velodrome in our area.  And you are correct that
it
really comes down to a matter of dollars and cents.

 

I don’t
doubt that the population of
our area can support a velodrome.  I do have concerns whether we can
generate
the public funding support for such an undertaking.  A private/public
partnership is more likely to yield results.  A reasonable scenario is
if
the public sector put up the land and provide management/maintenance
services
through a parks district, and funding for design and construction be
raised
through private donors.

 

I would love
to see something like this
gain momentum in Eugene/Springfield.  And yes, I would donate my time
to
help it happen.

 

Kevin Ko

 

---

From:
obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke

Sent: Tuesday, March
13, 2007 4:25
PM

To: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: [OBRA Chat]
velodrome

 

No offense intended, but Eugene
is not
the second largest city, Salem
is.  Eugene is the third largest in Oregon.  Saying
Eugene-Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. 
You
might as well say Portland-Salem.  Sorry, I digress.

 

Eugene
is centrally located?  Tell that to Bend
(or Prineville!)  If by centrally located you mean the center of
population, it's not that either.  There is a comparitively large
population in the Portland
metro area that skews your claim.

 

Regardless of size of a city, or geographic
location, it boils down to
dollars and cents.  There must be a large enough population close
enough
to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either
through tax
support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all three.

 

Has anyone ever talked about building a
velodrome in Eugene? 
Probably.

Talk however is cheap...........  facilities
are built with
dollars.

 

Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. 
I just want to help
clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.

 

Kevin

>

>Doug Turnbull wrote:

> After reading all these excited emails about building two new

>velodromes in Portland and southern
Oregon,
I am curious as
to why

>Eugene
is
not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the

>second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,

>and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the

>proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just

>wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland
and southern Oregon

>were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building

>one here?

>

>-Doug

>

 

---

Finding fabulous fares is fun.

Let
Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight
and hotel
bargains.

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

  

KO Kevin

Eugene/Springfield is the second largest metropolitan area in Oregon.
Yes, it's larger than Salem/Keizer. And because the only thing that
separates the two cities is the width of I-5, it makes a hell of a lot
more sense to say Eugene/Springfield than Seattle/Tacoma or
Portland/Salem. We are, indeed, joined at the hip. Yes, there has been
talk at the grassroots level about building a velodrome in our area.
And you are correct that it really comes down to a matter of dollars and
cents.

I don't doubt that the population of our area can support a velodrome.
I do have concerns whether we can generate the public funding support
for such an undertaking. A private/public partnership is more likely to
yield results. A reasonable scenario is if the public sector put up the
land and provide management/maintenance services through a parks
district, and funding for design and construction be raised through
private donors.

I would love to see something like this gain momentum in
Eugene/Springfield. And yes, I would donate my time to help it happen.

Kevin Ko

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Kevin Van Dyke
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2007 4:25 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] velodrome

No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem
is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene-Springfield
is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well say
Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.

Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If by
centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that
either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro
area that skews your claim.

Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down to
dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close enough
to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either through
tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all
three.

Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene? Probably.

Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.

Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help
clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.

Kevin

>
>Doug Turnbull wrote:
> After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to
why
>Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is
the
>second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling
community,
>and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think
the
>proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern
Oregon
>were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of
building
>one here?
>
>-Doug
>

________________________________

Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites
to find flight and hotel bargains.

Kevin Van Dyke

No offense intended, but Eugene is not the second largest city, Salem is. Eugene is the third largest in Oregon. Saying Eugene-Springfield is almost as irritating as saying Seattle-Tacoma. You might as well say Portland-Salem. Sorry, I digress.

Eugene is centrally located? Tell that to Bend (or Prineville!) If by centrally located you mean the center of population, it's not that either. There is a comparitively large population in the Portland metro area that skews your claim.

Regardless of size of a city, or geographic location, it boils down to dollars and cents. There must be a large enough population close enough to your proposed venue that are willing to foot the bill, either through tax support, or admissions and sponsorships, or combination of all three.

Has anyone ever talked about building a velodrome in Eugene? Probably.
Talk however is cheap........... facilities are built with dollars.

Like I said, no offense intended whatsoever. I just want to help clarify some reasons why it hasn't happened.

Kevin

>
>Doug Turnbull
wrote:
> After reading all these excited emails about building two new
>velodromes in Portland and southern Oregon, I am curious as to why
>Eugene is not one of the proposed sites. Eugene/Springfield is the
>second largest city in the state, we have a large cycling community,
>and we are centrally located geographically. I certainly think the
>proposal to build more velodromes is fantastic, but I am just
>wondering (with a bit of jealousy) why Portland and southern Oregon
>were picked instead of my town. Has there ever been talk of building
>one here?
>
>-Doug
>

---------------------------------
Finding fabulous fares is fun.
Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains.

mmur-@teleport.com

I have been contacted by a few people regarding a conflict that occurred at

the velodrome over the weekend between cyclists and some inappropriate users

of the track. This is something that has happened before but it appears that

this weekend the people involved were more confrontational. I have spoken

with Jeff Miller at Alpenrose to clarify what the Dairy wishes to be done in

this situation. The bottom line is:



-The park facilities at Alpenrose are not public property. The velodrome is

on private property which belongs to Alpenrose Dairy. The Dairy, therefore,

is allowed to establish what are legitimate uses of the facility.

-The only appropriate use of the velodrome is for riding with track bikes.

Use of the velodrome for riding with BMX bikes, mountain bikes, skates,

skateboards, etc. is not allowed. Climbing on the rails, sliding on the

track fencing rails, sliding on the track surface, pouring or throwing items

on the track are not allowed. The infield of the track is not an appropriate

area to walk dogs or allow them to run free (or defecate). Minors are not

allowed at the velodrome without adult supervision.

-If you see someone using the track in an inappropriate fashion the

appropriate response should be:



1) Collect any identifying information (most importantly car license

numbers).

2) Ask them to leave. This should be done in as non-confrontational a

fashion as possible. Simply explain that whatever they are doing is not

allowed at the Dairy.

3) If there are any difficulties then contact the Dairy staff if it is

before 3:00 PM Mondays through Saturdays or the police.

4) Communicate the details of any of these interactions to me and I will

pass that information on as appropriate.



Please be aware that some of the people that have been asked to leave the

Dairy have been confrontational and there have been rare threats of

violence. Please do not put yourself in a situation where you may be risking

injury. In addition, it would be best if we avoid giving any person a

motive for returning to the site later and committing some act of vandalism.



If there are any questions please feel free to contact me.



Mike Murray

503 661-5874

mmur-@teleport.com