Keep on rubbin' - the damage sandbagging does to us all

gschreckchat@comcast.net

2008-05-15

What is worng with competitive fast Masters races? I do not think Masters races should just be slow plodding races, which if usually what you get with a 3/4 Masters race. Also, you forget that the Masters races are often 50 miles while the 1/2 racesa are much longer. For people with commitments, they may be able to trian for a 50 mile race and ride strongly, but a 70 to 90 mile race may be beyond their ability at their age or a distance for which they do not have the time to train.

I suggest you race whatever category you want and let the others races theirs. Eventually, things sort themselves out.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Erik
If they're still competitive at the Pro/1/2 level, I could give two left nuts what their age is. They need to be racing based on ability.

Turning 40 doesn't make you slow slower than you were at 39. The rules now allow you to race in a field of riders younger than you - that's all. I'm still scratching my head as to why this category even exists.

If you pay attention to Pro/1/2 results in this state, a very high percentage of podium spots are taken by riders who are "masters" under USAC rules. If every eligible Cat 1/2 rider raced Masters 40+, we end up with a single-digit turn out for Pro/1/2.

So then you end up with a 40+ race that is the hardest event of the day. Super. So the few 20-something 1/2's on the road don't race against the best riders at the race and they don't get the challenge and the much needed experience they deserve.

I'm always hearing about how Masters are some of the strongest riders on the road. Well, Dammit, get your pathetic hide out of your little old-guy club and prove it.

The young 2's shouldn't have their development stunted by weak fields just because they're young and you're too lazy. This negative effect on other categories is what makes masters racing perhaps the most retarded concept in cycling today.

-Erik

From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: elongride@hotmail.com; qconant@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Keep on rubbin' - the damage sandbagging does to us all
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:23:45 +0000

If someone is a 1/2 and over 40, they are not sandbagging by racing masters. It is one of their categories. Is there something wrong with having strong masters riders and a hard fast quality masters race? Are masters races only supposed to be slow plodding affairs. The reason why the 1/2 category is small is because there are not enough young people taking up bike racing and bike racing is a sport that is aging. That is not going to improve by forcing old guys to race in the 1/2 category and reducing the quality of the masters races. Also, having raced in some Cat 3 races, I have not seen any dominance on that front, as most of the strong cat 3's have been upgraded.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Erik
Forget about "sour grapes". What a cop-out. I have nothing to do with cat 3/4/5 or masters racing whatsoever, and this whole scenario pisses me off.

If you're not a beginner, stop whooping up on the 4/5's - you're not helping anybody by soloing in 5 minutes ahead of the group. There is no such thing as a "Cat 4/5 Champion", mmkay? Okay, so you "won". You're still just a schmuck who should be racing with the rest of the Cat 3's. You're worse than a wannabe, you're a should-be who chooses to stay in his proverbial dirty diapers in a last ditch effort to avoid big-boy pants.

Same goes for the 3's. If you've finally taken some initiative and done some real training and begun "dominating" the Cat 3 races, wake up and race with others at your newfound performance level.

When you stay at a level you have outgrown, you keep the next level from being as competitive as it should be and you keep those you're flogging from making t heir next step. You make yourself a road block for everyone who actually wants to improve. You're stifling our growth as a legitimate sport. Stop it.

I'm not the only one who's sick of seeing the pro/1/2 field shrink while perfectly capable 3's avoid upgrading because racing might actually be hard again (cat 1/2 "masters", I'm looking in your direction, too. Might you be switching to "Depends" a little too early?). You're all weakening the sport through what can only be called a lack of "juevos".

Yes, I'm judging you . . . and I'm right. You can argue and rationalize your inaction all you want, it'll still be bad for the sport.

-Erik

> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 00:32:44 -0700
> From: qconant@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Re: Wow...rubbed some people the wrong way...
>
> sorry in advance, I can't resist...
>
> Regardless of if someone is actuall y a sandbagger, it just sounds like sour grapes if you complain about it publicly. It really does. It sounds like "I should have won, but someone else was faster, stronger, or more wily than I".
>
> Alot of us spend a great deal of time not winning, or even placing in a spot worth talking about. It's not fair, but that's just the way it goes. There's always someone out there who either has better tools, or can use what they have better.
>
> I dunno. Next time, mark the sandbagger and be their shadow, maybe you can use them to your advantage.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: elongride@hotmail.com
To: qconant@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Keep on rubbin' - the damage sandbagging does to us all
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:58:17 +0000

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Mike Murray

2008-05-14

Erik Long questioned why the Masters 40+ exists. The answer is that it
exists because race organizers put it on. Race organizers may put on a race
for any specific group that they want unless prohibited by the rules. There
are very few rules; basically only that you cannot exclude women from a
race. So if a race organizer wished to put on a race for only guys born on
Tuesdays or guys who are employed as bakers they could do that. 40+ is a
huge demographic group so many race organizers select this. It also serves
the additional benefit of decompressing the overpopulated Cat 3, 4 and 5
fields. Unfortunately it also shrinks the under populated Cat 1/2 group and
the presence of Cat 1/2 riders inhibits participation by the slower category
riders in the Masters race. Race organizer could (and to my mind should)
address this problem while simultaneously increasing total participation by
limiting Masters competition to Cat 3/4/5. Some elect to do that and some
do not. The great thing about a free market system like we have is that you
get to choose which scheme fits your preference and then vote with your
entry fees at every race. In many locations the field compositions are
fixed into a scheme that generally only a few people decided was a good idea
and most people either put up with it or don't race at all.

Mike Murray


Scott Jones

2008-05-14

Look at the size of the Cat 3 fields and they always seem to be pretty
large, as do most fields these days. It is hard to get upgrade points when
there is a strong field of 70+ racers. Yes, you can upgrade pretty quick,
but if you are like me and are not a great at one part of racing (I'm not a
good climber) there are only so many races that I will do well in and score
points at.

Cat 3's and Cat 4's at Tuesday PIR have 2 choices. A strong Cat 4 can still
ride in the Cat 4/5 race and the same can be said with a strong 3 riding in
the 3/4 field. I CHOOSE to ride in the 1/2/3 field as a Cat 3 for several
reasons. It is usually a longer race with faster speeds and has stronger
riders. I don't win, but that is not what its about for me. Some people like
to win, so they ride in a group that they win or be very competitive in on
Tuesday nights.

I think Candi and now Kenji have done a good job of upgrading people as they
should. It is not easy to keep track of thousands of racers and do
everything as fast as you want it done.

Stop whining and start riding!

2008/5/14 Quenton :

> I thought the dwindling numbers was also because of the insane amount of
> points previously needed to upgrade from 3 to 2? From what I understand the
> new upgrade rules will help feed more people into the upper ranks. It's only
> 25 points now... last year wasn't it closer to 50?
>
> Heck, it may not have been strong 3's not wanting to upgrade but strong 3's
> having a hard time reaching the minimum number of points to upgrade. In
> either case, the new upgrade rules should help swell your field, and make it
> easier for guys like myself to upgrade
>
> In the end us spamming our opinions doesn't really solve anything.
>
>
> 2008/5/14 :
>
>> If someone is a 1/2 and over 40, they are not sandbagging by racing
>> masters. It is one of their categories. Is there something wrong with
>> having strong masters riders and a hard fast quality masters race? Are
>> masters races only supposed to be slow plodding affairs. The reason why the
>> 1/2 category is small is because there are not enough young people taking up
>> bike racing and bike racing is a sport that is aging. That is not going to
>> improve by forcing old guys to race in the 1/2 category and reducing the
>> quality of the masters races. Also, having raced in some Cat 3 races, I
>> have not seen any dominance on that front, as most of the strong cat 3's
>> have been upgraded.
>>
>> --
>>
>> George Schreck
>> gschreckchat@comcast.net
>> (503) 502-0425
>>
>>
>> -------------- Original message --------------
>> From: Erik
>> Forget about "sour grapes". What a cop-out. I have nothing to do with
>> cat 3/4/5 or masters racing whatsoever, and this whole scenario pisses me
>> off.
>>
>> If you're not a beginner, stop whooping up on the 4/5's - you're not
>> helping anybody by soloing in 5 minutes ahead of the group. There is no
>> such thing as a "Cat 4/5 Champion", mmkay? Okay, so you "won". You're
>> still just a schmuck who should be racing with the rest of the Cat 3's.
>> You're worse than a wannabe, you're a should-be who chooses to stay in his
>> proverbial dirty diapers in a last ditch effort to avoid big-boy pants.
>>
>> Same goes for the 3's. If you've finally taken some initiative and done
>> some real training and begun "dominating" the Cat 3 races, wake up and race
>> with others at your newfound performance level.
>>
>> When you stay at a level you have outgrown, you keep the next level from
>> being as competitive as it should be and you keep those you're flogging from
>> making t heir next step. You make yourself a road block for everyone who
>> actually wants to improve. You're stifling our growth as a legitimate
>> sport. Stop it.
>>
>> I'm not the only one who's sick of seeing the pro/1/2 field shrink while
>> perfectly capable 3's avoid upgrading because racing might actually be hard
>> again (cat 1/2 "masters", I'm looking in your direction, too. Might you be
>> switching to "Depends" a little too early?). You're all weakening the sport
>> through what can only be called a lack of "juevos".
>>
>> Yes, I'm judging you . . . and I'm right. You can argue and rationalize
>> your inaction all you want, it'll still be bad for the sport.
>>
>> -Erik
>>
>>
>> > Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 00:32:44 -0700
>> > From: qconant@gmail.com
>> > To: obra@list.obra.org
>> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Re: Wow...rubbed some people the wrong way...
>> >
>> > sorry in advance, I can't resist...
>> >
>> > Regardless of if someone is actuall y a sandbagger, it just sounds like
>> sour grapes if you complain about it publicly. It really does. It sounds
>> like "I should have won, but someone else was faster, stronger, or more wily
>> than I".
>> >
>> > Alot of us spend a great deal of time not winning, or even placing in a
>> spot worth talking about. It's not fair, but that's just the way it goes.
>> There's always someone out there who either has better tools, or can use
>> what they have better.
>> >
>> > I dunno. Next time, mark the sandbagger and be their shadow, maybe you
>> can use them to your advantage.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > OBRA mailing list
>> > obra@list.obra.org
>> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. Connect on
>> the go.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Erik
>> To: Quenton ,
>> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:58:17 +0000
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Keep on rubbin' - the damage sandbagging does to us
>> all
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> " There is nothing but atoms and space,
> everything else is only an opinion"
> - Democritus from Abdera
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


If they're still competitive at the Pro/1/2 level, I could give two left nuts what their age is. They need to be racing based on ability.

Turning 40 doesn't make you slow slower than you were at 39. The rules now allow you to race in a field of riders younger than you - that's all. I'm still scratching my head as to why this category even exists.

If you pay attention to Pro/1/2 results in this state, a very high percentage of podium spots are taken by riders who are "masters" under USAC rules. If every eligible Cat 1/2 rider raced Masters 40+, we end up with a single-digit turn out for Pro/1/2.

So then you end up with a 40+ race that is the hardest event of the day. Super. So the few 20-something 1/2's on the road don't race against the best riders at the race and they don't get the challenge and the much needed experience they deserve.

I'm always hearing about how Masters are some of the strongest riders on the road. Well, Dammit, get your pathetic hide out of your little old-guy club and prove it.

The young 2's shouldn't have their development stunted by weak fields just because they're young and you're too lazy. This negative effect on other categories is what makes masters racing perhaps the most retarded concept in cycling today.

-Erik

From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: elongride@hotmail.com; qconant@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Keep on rubbin' - the damage sandbagging does to us all
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:23:45 +0000

If someone is a 1/2 and over 40, they are not sandbagging by racing masters. It is one of their categories. Is there something wrong with having strong masters riders and a hard fast quality masters race? Are masters races only supposed to be slow plodding affairs. The reason why the 1/2 category is small is because there are not enough young people taking up bike racing and bike racing is a sport that is aging. That is not going to improve by forcing old guys to race in the 1/2 category and reducing the quality of the masters races. Also, having raced in some Cat 3 races, I have not seen any dominance on that front, as most of the strong cat 3's have been upgraded.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Erik

Forget about "sour grapes". What a cop-out. I have nothing to do with cat 3/4/5 or masters racing whatsoever, and this whole scenario pisses me off.

If you're not a beginner, stop whooping up on the 4/5's - you're not helping anybody by soloing in 5 minutes ahead of the group. There is no such thing as a "Cat 4/5 Champion", mmkay? Okay, so you "won". You're still just a schmuck who should be racing with the rest of the Cat 3's. You're worse than a wannabe, you're a should-be who chooses to stay in his proverbial dirty diapers in a last ditch effort to avoid big-boy pants.

Same goes for the 3's. If you've finally taken some initiative and done some real training and begun "dominating" the Cat 3 races, wake up and race with others at your newfound performance level.

When you stay at a level you have outgrown, you keep the next level from being as competitive as it should be and you keep those you're flogging from making t
heir next step. You make yourself a road block for everyone who actually wants to improve. You're stifling our growth as a legitimate sport. Stop it.

I'm not the only one who's sick of seeing the pro/1/2 field shrink while perfectly capable 3's avoid upgrading because racing might actually be hard again (cat 1/2 "masters", I'm looking in your direction, too. Might you be switching to "Depends" a little too early?). You're all weakening the sport through what can only be called a lack of "juevos".

Yes, I'm judging you . . . and I'm right. You can argue and rationalize your inaction all you want, it'll still be bad for the sport.

-Erik

> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 00:32:44 -0700
> From: qconant@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Re: Wow...rubbed some people the wrong way...
>
> sorry in advance, I can't resist...
>
> Regardless of if someone is actuall
y a sandbagger, it just sounds like sour grapes if you complain about it publicly. It really does. It sounds like "I should have won, but someone else was faster, stronger, or more wily than I".
>
> Alot of us spend a great deal of time not winning, or even placing in a spot worth talking about. It's not fair, but that's just the way it goes. There's always someone out there who either has better tools, or can use what they have better.
>
> I dunno. Next time, mark the sandbagger and be their shadow, maybe you can use them to your advantage.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. Connect on the go.
--Forwarded Message Attachment--
From: elongride@hotmail.com
To: qconant@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Keep on rubbin' - the damage sandbagging does to us all
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:58:17 +0000

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Erik Voldengen

2008-05-14

You know what's just as bad as sandbagging? Whining about it.

There's no way to wear well, not unlike a poop mustache.

-Erik


Quenton

2008-05-14

I thought the dwindling numbers was also because of the insane amount of
points previously needed to upgrade from 3 to 2? From what I understand the
new upgrade rules will help feed more people into the upper ranks. It's only
25 points now... last year wasn't it closer to 50?

Heck, it may not have been strong 3's not wanting to upgrade but strong 3's
having a hard time reaching the minimum number of points to upgrade. In
either case, the new upgrade rules should help swell your field, and make it
easier for guys like myself to upgrade

In the end us spamming our opinions doesn't really solve anything.

2008/5/14 :

> If someone is a 1/2 and over 40, they are not sandbagging by racing
> masters. It is one of their categories. Is there something wrong with
> having strong masters riders and a hard fast quality masters race? Are
> masters races only supposed to be slow plodding affairs. The reason why the
> 1/2 category is small is because there are not enough young people taking up
> bike racing and bike racing is a sport that is aging. That is not going to
> improve by forcing old guys to race in the 1/2 category and reducing the
> quality of the masters races. Also, having raced in some Cat 3 races, I
> have not seen any dominance on that front, as most of the strong cat 3's
> have been upgraded.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Erik
> Forget about "sour grapes". What a cop-out. I have nothing to do with cat
> 3/4/5 or masters racing whatsoever, and this whole scenario pisses me off.
>
> If you're not a beginner, stop whooping up on the 4/5's - you're not
> helping anybody by soloing in 5 minutes ahead of the group. There is no
> such thing as a "Cat 4/5 Champion", mmkay? Okay, so you "won". You're
> still just a schmuck who should be racing with the rest of the Cat 3's.
> You're worse than a wannabe, you're a should-be who chooses to stay in his
> proverbial dirty diapers in a last ditch effort to avoid big-boy pants.
>
> Same goes for the 3's. If you've finally taken some initiative and done
> some real training and begun "dominating" the Cat 3 races, wake up and race
> with others at your newfound performance level.
>
> When you stay at a level you have outgrown, you keep the next level from
> being as competitive as it should be and you keep those you're flogging from
> making t heir next step. You make yourself a road block for everyone who
> actually wants to improve. You're stifling our growth as a legitimate
> sport. Stop it.
>
> I'm not the only one who's sick of seeing the pro/1/2 field shrink while
> perfectly capable 3's avoid upgrading because racing might actually be hard
> again (cat 1/2 "masters", I'm looking in your direction, too. Might you be
> switching to "Depends" a little too early?). You're all weakening the sport
> through what can only be called a lack of "juevos".
>
> Yes, I'm judging you . . . and I'm right. You can argue and rationalize
> your inaction all you want, it'll still be bad for the sport.
>
> -Erik
>
>
> > Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 00:32:44 -0700
> > From: qconant@gmail.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Re: Wow...rubbed some people the wrong way...
> >
> > sorry in advance, I can't resist...
> >
> > Regardless of if someone is actuall y a sandbagger, it just sounds like
> sour grapes if you complain about it publicly. It really does. It sounds
> like "I should have won, but someone else was faster, stronger, or more wily
> than I".
> >
> > Alot of us spend a great deal of time not winning, or even placing in a
> spot worth talking about. It's not fair, but that's just the way it goes.
> There's always someone out there who either has better tools, or can use
> what they have better.
> >
> > I dunno. Next time, mark the sandbagger and be their shadow, maybe you
> can use them to your advantage.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
> With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. Connect on
> the go.
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Erik
> To: Quenton ,
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:58:17 +0000
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Keep on rubbin' - the damage sandbagging does to us
> all
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
" There is nothing but atoms and space,
everything else is only an opinion"
- Democritus from Abdera


gschreckchat@comcast.net

2008-05-14

If someone is a 1/2 and over 40, they are not sandbagging by racing masters. It is one of their categories. Is there something wrong with having strong masters riders and a hard fast quality masters race? Are masters races only supposed to be slow plodding affairs. The reason why the 1/2 category is small is because there are not enough young people taking up bike racing and bike racing is a sport that is aging. That is not going to improve by forcing old guys to race in the 1/2 category and reducing the quality of the masters races. Also, having raced in some Cat 3 races, I have not seen any dominance on that front, as most of the strong cat 3's have been upgraded.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Erik
Forget about "sour grapes". What a cop-out. I have nothing to do with cat 3/4/5 or masters racing whatsoever, and this whole scenario pisses me off.

If you're not a beginner, stop whooping up on the 4/5's - you're not helping anybody by soloing in 5 minutes ahead of the group. There is no such thing as a "Cat 4/5 Champion", mmkay? Okay, so you "won". You're still just a schmuck who should be racing with the rest of the Cat 3's. You're worse than a wannabe, you're a should-be who chooses to stay in his proverbial dirty diapers in a last ditch effort to avoid big-boy pants.

Same goes for the 3's. If you've finally taken some initiative and done some real training and begun "dominating" the Cat 3 races, wake up and race with others at your newfound performance level.

When you stay at a level you have outgrown, you keep the next level from being as competitive as it should be and you keep those you're flogging from making their next step. You make yourself a road block for everyone who actually wants to improve. You're stifling our growth as a legitimate sport. Stop it.

I'm not the only one who's sick of seeing the pro/1/2 field shrink while perfectly capable 3's avoid upgrading because racing might actually be hard again (cat 1/2 "masters", I'm looking in your direction, too. Might you be switching to "Depends" a little too early?). You're all weakening the sport through what can only be called a lack of "juevos".

Yes, I'm judging you . . . and I'm right. You can argue and rationalize your inaction all you want, it'll still be bad for the sport.

-Erik

> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 00:32:44 -0700
> From: qconant@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Re: Wow...rubbed some people the wrong way...
>
> sorry in advance, I can't resist...
>
> Regardless of if someone is actually a sandbagger, it just sounds like sour grapes if you complain about it publicly. It really does. It sounds like "I should have won, but someone else was faster, stronger, or more wily than I".
>
> Alot of us spend a great deal of time not winning, or even placing in a spot worth talking about. It's not fair, but that's just the way it goes. There's always someone out there who either has better tools, or can use what they have better.
>
> I dunno. Next time, mark the sandbagger and be their shadow, maybe you can use them to your advantage.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. Connect on the go.


Forget about "sour grapes". What a cop-out. I have nothing to do with cat 3/4/5 or masters racing whatsoever, and this whole scenario pisses me off.

If you're not a beginner, stop whooping up on the 4/5's - you're not helping anybody by soloing in 5 minutes ahead of the group. There is no such thing as a "Cat 4/5 Champion", mmkay? Okay, so you "won". You're still just a schmuck who should be racing with the rest of the Cat 3's. You're worse than a wannabe, you're a should-be who chooses to stay in his proverbial dirty diapers in a last ditch effort to avoid big-boy pants.

Same goes for the 3's. If you've finally taken some initiative and done some real training and begun "dominating" the Cat 3 races, wake up and race with others at your newfound performance level.

When you stay at a level you have outgrown, you keep the next level from being as competitive as it should be and you keep those you're flogging from making their next step. You make yourself a road block for everyone who actually wants to improve. You're stifling our growth as a legitimate sport. Stop it.

I'm not the only one who's sick of seeing the pro/1/2 field shrink while perfectly capable 3's avoid upgrading because racing might actually be hard again (cat 1/2 "masters", I'm looking in your direction, too. Might you be switching to "Depends" a little too early?). You're all weakening the sport through what can only be called a lack of "juevos".

Yes, I'm judging you . . . and I'm right. You can argue and rationalize your inaction all you want, it'll still be bad for the sport.

-Erik

> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 00:32:44 -0700
> From: qconant@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Re: Wow...rubbed some people the wrong way...
>
> sorry in advance, I can't resist...
>
> Regardless of if someone is actually a sandbagger, it just sounds like sour grapes if you complain about it publicly. It really does. It sounds like "I should have won, but someone else was faster, stronger, or more wily than I".
>
> Alot of us spend a great deal of time not winning, or even placing in a spot worth talking about. It's not fair, but that's just the way it goes. There's always someone out there who either has better tools, or can use what they have better.
>
> I dunno. Next time, mark the sandbagger and be their shadow, maybe you can use them to your advantage.
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