Mike Murray

I am afraid you are wrong. There is a standard ad it is the rule that I
quoted. It is designed to have the default be the open road situation where
the field being passed always should stay to the right but allows for
direction by the officials to go to the left, or outside or however directed
by officials.

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: joe cipale [mailto:joec@aracnet.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 20:56 PM
To: mike.murray@obra.org
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Rules

On Tue, 2008-05-27 at 15:52 -0700, Mike Murray wrote:
> The applicable rule is:
>
>
> 15.1.3 Field passing - Should a field catch another field of racers
> that started separately (except in a Handicap Race) the slower field
> will slow and ride at a neutral speed as soon as practical after they
> are caught by the faster field or its lead car to allow the faster
> field to pass. They will then continue to ride at a neutral slowed
> pace until the faster field is 300 meters ahead or until they are
> released by an official attending their race. The field being passed
> will stay to the far right of the road allowing room for the passing
> field unless instructed by an official otherwise. Passes will not
> occur in the final 2 kilometers of a race. Riders will not pass unless
> there is clear space to pass subject to rule 15.1.2."
>
>
>
> Although there is some interpretation here, I don't think that the
> 1/2/3 field should be considered the ""slower field" even if they are
> temporarily moving slower. It is not reasonable to expect that the
> Cat 4/5 field, which has already lost a considerable amount of ground
> to the Cat 1/2/3 field, will now be able to pass and maintain a lead
> on the Cat 1/2/3 field for any length of time. In general, if a
> passed field catches the field that had previously passed them the
> error is that the period of neutralization was too short. This is
> difficult at PIR since it is self policed. Personally I think this
> would be a lot easier if PIR routinely had a lead and follow vehicle
> for each field because the lead vehicle could hold back the passed
> field longer. There are those that disagree with me however. Mike
> Murray

My complaint is that there is no standard for overtaking a slower field.
IMHO, the 'unofficial' rule should be that the slower field should ALWAYS
neutralize to the outside of the course. There is only one corner at PIR
where this could be problematic, but it would be consistent, regardless of
which direction the race is going for a given week.

Joe

joe cipale

On Tue, 2008-05-27 at 15:52 -0700, Mike Murray wrote:
> The applicable rule is:
>
>
> 15.1.3 Field passing - Should a field catch another field of racers
> that started separately (except in a Handicap Race) the slower field
> will slow and ride at a neutral speed as soon as practical after they
> are caught by the faster field or its lead car to allow the faster
> field to pass. They will then continue to ride at a neutral slowed
> pace until the faster field is 300 meters ahead or until they are
> released by an official attending their race. The field being passed
> will stay to the far right of the road allowing room for the passing
> field unless instructed by an official otherwise. Passes will not
> occur in the final 2 kilometers of a race. Riders will not pass unless
> there is clear space to pass subject to rule 15.1.2."
>
>
>
> Although there is some interpretation here, I don't think that the
> 1/2/3 field should be considered the ""slower field" even if they are
> temporarily moving slower. It is not reasonable to expect that the
> Cat 4/5 field, which has already lost a considerable amount of ground
> to the Cat 1/2/3 field, will now be able to pass and maintain a lead
> on the Cat 1/2/3 field for any length of time. In general, if a
> passed field catches the field that had previously passed them the
> error is that the period of neutralization was too short. This is
> difficult at PIR since it is self policed. Personally I think this
> would be a lot easier if PIR routinely had a lead and follow vehicle
> for each field because the lead vehicle could hold back the passed
> field longer. There are those that disagree with me however.
> Mike Murray

My complaint is that there is no standard for overtaking a slower field.
IMHO, the 'unofficial' rule should be that the slower field should
ALWAYS neutralize to the outside of the course. There is only one corner
at PIR where this could be problematic, but it would be consistent,
regardless of which direction the race is going for a given week.

Joe

jon.ragsdale@comcast.net

I agree, that was cool to hear. :)

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Joel Morrissette"
> By the way, thanks to the ladies for yelling words of encouragement on the
> way by. We'll pass carefully to make sure they stay encouraging. = )
>
> 2008/5/27 Candi Murray :
>
> > I agree completely, Michelle. The faster group needs to not 'buzz' the
> > slower group
> >
> >
> > Candi
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> > *From:* michelechirgwin@comcast.net [mailto:michelechirgwin@comcast.net]
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:56 PM
> > *To:* Joel Morrissette; Candi Murray
> > *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> > *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Rules
> >
> > As a lady racer I do have something to say about this. (Open Women)
> >
> > We cannot hear you when you come up from behind us & try to pass us on the
> > inside of a tight corner. Please keep everyone safe. You can see us much
> > better than we can see you.
> >
> > I think if you see the ladies heading around a corner you need to go to the
> > outside & yell at the back of the group to stay neutral. If not entering a
> > corner, I think there is more time & room to YELL at us to move over & to
> > stay neutral.
> >
> > We had guys flying on the inside of our corner to get around us. There was
> > NO room. If any one had moved even slightly we would have had a huge pile
> > up.
> >
> > I know the slower group needs to move out of the way & neutralize. That is
> > just common sense. And I think we try very hard to do that & to give you
> > enough time to pass us so that we don't run up on your tail end...BUT please
> > be considerate of our group also!
> >
> > --
> > Michele Chirgwin
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: "Joel Morrissette"
> > Candi-
> > I was in the 4/5 race last night and there was quite a bit of confusion
> > after the 1/2/3s passed, so I'm CCing the list so everyone can benefit. We
> > went neutral and let them pass, then waited until we had a few-hundred-yard
> > gap before it was "game on". Apparently, the 1/2/3 field had let the gas
> > off quite a bit by the time we had all reached the front straightaway, and
> > the 4/5s closed in. We went left, assuming they would in turn go neutral to
> > let us pass. They never really did - we slowed up, they sped up, we chased
> > each other and finally got it worked out. What should have been protocol at
> > this point? Should the 1/2/3s have gone neutral to let us pass? What do we
> > do when we find ourselves going faster than the passing group and closing t
> > he gap back up?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Joel
> >
> > On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:
> >
> >> OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc
> >>
> >> Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
> >> his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific
> >> instruction
> >> given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
> >> riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
> >> states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders
> >> from
> >> another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please
> >> ask.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Candi
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.o
> rg/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > __o "It never gets easier,
> > _ \<_ you just go faster."
> > (_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> __o "It never gets easier,
> _ \<_ you just go faster."
> (_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

Joel Morrissette

By the way, thanks to the ladies for yelling words of encouragement on the
way by. We'll pass carefully to make sure they stay encouraging. = )

2008/5/27 Candi Murray :

> I agree completely, Michelle. The faster group needs to not 'buzz' the
> slower group
>
>
> Candi
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* michelechirgwin@comcast.net [mailto:michelechirgwin@comcast.net]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:56 PM
> *To:* Joel Morrissette; Candi Murray
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Rules
>
> As a lady racer I do have something to say about this. (Open Women)
>
> We cannot hear you when you come up from behind us & try to pass us on the
> inside of a tight corner. Please keep everyone safe. You can see us much
> better than we can see you.
>
> I think if you see the ladies heading around a corner you need to go to the
> outside & yell at the back of the group to stay neutral. If not entering a
> corner, I think there is more time & room to YELL at us to move over & to
> stay neutral.
>
> We had guys flying on the inside of our corner to get around us. There was
> NO room. If any one had moved even slightly we would have had a huge pile
> up.
>
> I know the slower group needs to move out of the way & neutralize. That is
> just common sense. And I think we try very hard to do that & to give you
> enough time to pass us so that we don't run up on your tail end...BUT please
> be considerate of our group also!
>
> --
> Michele Chirgwin
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Joel Morrissette"
> Candi-
> I was in the 4/5 race last night and there was quite a bit of confusion
> after the 1/2/3s passed, so I'm CCing the list so everyone can benefit. We
> went neutral and let them pass, then waited until we had a few-hundred-yard
> gap before it was "game on". Apparently, the 1/2/3 field had let the gas
> off quite a bit by the time we had all reached the front straightaway, and
> the 4/5s closed in. We went left, assuming they would in turn go neutral to
> let us pass. They never really did - we slowed up, they sped up, we chased
> each other and finally got it worked out. What should have been protocol at
> this point? Should the 1/2/3s have gone neutral to let us pass? What do we
> do when we find ourselves going faster than the passing group and closing t
> he gap back up?
>
> Thanks,
> Joel
>
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:
>
>> OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc
>>
>> Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
>> his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific
>> instruction
>> given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
>> riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
>> states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders
>> from
>> another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please
>> ask.
>>
>>
>>
>> Candi
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.o rg/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> __o "It never gets easier,
> _ \<_ you just go faster."
> (_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

Candi Murray

I agree completely, Michelle. The faster group needs to not 'buzz' the
slower group

Candi

_____

From: michelechirgwin@comcast.net [mailto:michelechirgwin@comcast.net]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:56 PM
To: Joel Morrissette; Candi Murray
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Rules

As a lady racer I do have something to say about this. (Open Women)

We cannot hear you when you come up from behind us & try to pass us on the
inside of a tight corner. Please keep everyone safe. You can see us much
better than we can see you.

I think if you see the ladies heading around a corner you need to go to the
outside & yell at the back of the group to stay neutral. If not entering a
corner, I think there is more time & room to YELL at us to move over & to
stay neutral.

We had guys flying on the inside of our corner to get around us. There was
NO room. If any one had moved even slightly we would have had a huge pile
up.

I know the slower group needs to move out of the way & neutralize. That is
just common sense. And I think we try very hard to do that & to give you
enough time to pass us so that we don't run up on your tail end...BUT please
be considerate of our group also!

--
Michele Chirgwin

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Joel Morrissette"
Candi-
I was in the 4/5 race last night and there was quite a bit of confusion
after the 1/2/3s passed, so I'm CCing the list so everyone can benefit. We
went neutral and let them pass, then waited until we had a few-hundred-yard
gap before it was "game on". Apparently, the 1/2/3 field had let the gas
off quite a bit by the time we had all reached the front straightaway, and
the 4/5s closed in. We went left, assuming they would in turn go neutral to
let us pass. They never really did - we slowed up, they sped up, we chased
each other and finally got it worked out. What should have been protocol at
this point? Should the 1/2/3s have gone neutral to let us pass? What do we
do when we find ourselves going faster than the passing group and closing t
he gap back up?

Thanks,
Joel

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:

OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc

Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific instruction
given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders from
another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please ask.

Candi

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.o
rg/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

Joel Morrissette

We did fine last week when we were passed. I think the lead couple of guys
were just going a little too fast, we caught up to tell them to back off,
and then we went too soon. Next week, we'll go reeeeaaaall slow on neutral.
= )

-Joel

2008/5/27 Mike Murray :

> The applicable rule is:
>
>
>
> 15.1.3 Field passing - Should a field catch another field of racers that
> started separately (except in a Handicap Race) the slower field will slow
> and ride at a neutral speed as soon as practical after they are caught by
> the faster field or its lead car to allow the faster field to pass. They
> will then continue to ride at a neutral slowed pace until the faster field
> is 300 meters ahead or until they are released by an official attending
> their race. The field being passed will stay to the far right of the road
> allowing room for the passing field unless instructed by an official
> otherwise. Passes will not occur in the final 2 kilometers of a race. Riders
> will not pass unless there is clear space to pass subject to rule 15.1.2."
>
> Although there is some interpretation here, I don't think that the 1/2/3
> field should be considered the ""slower field" even if they are temporarily
> moving slower. It is not reasonable to expect that the Cat 4/5 field, which
> has already lost a considerable amount of ground to the Cat 1/2/3 field,
> will now be able to pass and maintain a lead on the Cat 1/2/3 field for any
> length of time. In general, if a passed field catches the field that had
> previously passed them the error is that the period of neutralization was
> too short. This is difficult at PIR since it is self policed. Personally I
> think this would be a lot easier if PIR routinely had a lead and follow
> vehicle for each field because the lead vehicle could hold back the passed
> field longer. There are those that disagree with me however.
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Joel Morrissette
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 27, 2008 15:35 PM
> *To:* Candi Murray
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Rules
>
> Candi-
> I was in the 4/5 race last night and there was quite a bit of confusion
> after the 1/2/3s passed, so I'm CCing the list so everyone can benefit. We
> went neutral and let them pass, then waited until we had a few-hundred-yard
> gap before it was "game on". Apparently, the 1/2/3 field had let the gas
> off quite a bit by the time we had all reached the front straightaway, and
> the 4/5s closed in. We went left, assuming they would in turn go neutral to
> let us pass. They never really did - we slowed up, they sped up, we chased
> each other and finally got it worked out. What should have been protocol at
> this point? Should the 1/2/3s have gone neutral to let us pass? What do we
> do when we find ourselves going faster than the passing group and closing
> the gap back up?
>
> Thanks,
> Joel
>
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:
>
>> OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc
>>
>> Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
>> his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific
>> instruction
>> given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
>> riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
>> states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders
>> from
>> another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please
>> ask.
>>
>>
>>
>> Candi
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
>
> --
> __o "It never gets easier,
> _ \<_ you just go faster."
> (_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

michelechirgwin@comcast.net

As a lady racer I do have something to say about this. (Open Women)

We cannot hear you when you come up from behind us & try to pass us on the inside of a tight corner. Please keep everyone safe. You can see us much better than we can see you.

I think if you see the ladies heading around a corner you need to go to the outside & yell at the back of the group to stay neutral. If not entering a corner, I think there is more time & room to YELL at us to move over & to stay neutral.

We had guys flying on the inside of our corner to get around us. There was NO room. If any one had moved even slightly we would have had a huge pile up.

I know the slower group needs to move out of the way & neutralize. That is just common sense. And I think we try very hard to do that & to give you enough time to pass us so that we don't run up on your tail end...BUT please be considerate of our group also!

--
Michele Chirgwin

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Joel Morrissette"
Candi-
I was in the 4/5 race last night and there was quite a bit of confusion after the 1/2/3s passed, so I'm CCing the list so everyone can benefit. We went neutral and let them pass, then waited until we had a few-hundred-yard gap before it was "game on". Apparently, the 1/2/3 field had let the gas off quite a bit by the time we had all reached the front straightaway, and the 4/5s closed in. We went left, assuming they would in turn go neutral to let us pass. They never really did - we slowed up, they sped up, we chased each other and finally got it worked out. What should have been protocol at this point? Should the 1/2/3s have gone neutral to let us pass? What do we do when we find ourselves going faster than the passing group and closing the gap back up?

Thanks,
Joel

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:

OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc

Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific instruction
given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders from
another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please ask.

Candi

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

Mike Murray

The applicable rule is:

15.1.3 Field passing - Should a field catch another field of racers that
started separately (except in a Handicap Race) the slower field will slow
and ride at a neutral speed as soon as practical after they are caught by
the faster field or its lead car to allow the faster field to pass. They
will then continue to ride at a neutral slowed pace until the faster field
is 300 meters ahead or until they are released by an official attending
their race. The field being passed will stay to the far right of the road
allowing room for the passing field unless instructed by an official
otherwise. Passes will not occur in the final 2 kilometers of a race. Riders
will not pass unless there is clear space to pass subject to rule 15.1.2."

Although there is some interpretation here, I don't think that the 1/2/3
field should be considered the ""slower field" even if they are temporarily
moving slower. It is not reasonable to expect that the Cat 4/5 field, which
has already lost a considerable amount of ground to the Cat 1/2/3 field,
will now be able to pass and maintain a lead on the Cat 1/2/3 field for any
length of time. In general, if a passed field catches the field that had
previously passed them the error is that the period of neutralization was
too short. This is difficult at PIR since it is self policed. Personally I
think this would be a lot easier if PIR routinely had a lead and follow
vehicle for each field because the lead vehicle could hold back the passed
field longer. There are those that disagree with me however.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Joel Morrissette
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 15:35 PM
To: Candi Murray
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Rules

Candi-
I was in the 4/5 race last night and there was quite a bit of confusion
after the 1/2/3s passed, so I'm CCing the list so everyone can benefit. We
went neutral and let them pass, then waited until we had a few-hundred-yard
gap before it was "game on". Apparently, the 1/2/3 field had let the gas
off quite a bit by the time we had all reached the front straightaway, and
the 4/5s closed in. We went left, assuming they would in turn go neutral to
let us pass. They never really did - we slowed up, they sped up, we chased
each other and finally got it worked out. What should have been protocol at
this point? Should the 1/2/3s have gone neutral to let us pass? What do we
do when we find ourselves going faster than the passing group and closing
the gap back up?

Thanks,
Joel

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:

OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc

Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific instruction
given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders from
another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please ask.

Candi

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

jon.ragsdale@comcast.net

That was a little confusing. IMO we did the right thing and hugged the left side of the track on the front stretch. I couldn't tell after that if we picked up the pace or they let off more than we thought but we were alot closer than I thought.
I couldn't tell from where I was, but when we got passed on the back stretch, it looked like two of our guys tried to take off with them. We caught them again. I think we picked up the pace to bring them back and slowed back down, or maybe they realized where they were and slowed down. Either way, I wonder if there should be another way to race again. I don't know if it's a time frame or distance before we go again. I know the novices have the mentors, and I don't think we need that. Ideas?

Jon
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Joel Morrissette"
> Candi-
> I was in the 4/5 race last night and there was quite a bit of confusion
> after the 1/2/3s passed, so I'm CCing the list so everyone can benefit. We
> went neutral and let them pass, then waited until we had a few-hundred-yard
> gap before it was "game on". Apparently, the 1/2/3 field had let the gas
> off quite a bit by the time we had all reached the front straightaway, and
> the 4/5s closed in. We went left, assuming they would in turn go neutral to
> let us pass. They never really did - we slowed up, they sped up, we chased
> each other and finally got it worked out. What should have been protocol at
> this point? Should the 1/2/3s have gone neutral to let us pass? What do we
> do when we find ourselves going faster than the passing group and closing
> the gap back up?
>
> Thanks,
> Joel
>
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:
>
> > OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc
> >
> > Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
> > his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific
> > instruction
> > given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
> > riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
> > states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders from
> > another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please
> > ask.
> >
> >
> >
> > Candi
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
>
>
>
> --
> __o "It never gets easier,
> _ \<_ you just go faster."
> (_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

Candi Murray

The group being caught should always be the one that goes neutral. So having
said that, I have never seen the 1/2/3 do it I think that the 3/4 field
just needs to realize that and accept it. If it had happened on the road,
the 3/4 would have gone neutral for 1-2 minutes, I am going to assume that
last night was no where near that.

Candi

_____

From: Joel Morrissette [mailto:news4joel@gmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 3:35 PM
To: Candi Murray
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Rules

Candi-
I was in the 4/5 race last night and there was quite a bit of confusion
after the 1/2/3s passed, so I'm CCing the list so everyone can benefit. We
went neutral and let them pass, then waited until we had a few-hundred-yard
gap before it was "game on". Apparently, the 1/2/3 field had let the gas
off quite a bit by the time we had all reached the front straightaway, and
the 4/5s closed in. We went left, assuming they would in turn go neutral to
let us pass. They never really did - we slowed up, they sped up, we chased
each other and finally got it worked out. What should have been protocol at
this point? Should the 1/2/3s have gone neutral to let us pass? What do we
do when we find ourselves going faster than the passing group and closing
the gap back up?

Thanks,
Joel

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:

OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc

Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific instruction
given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders from
another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please ask.

Candi

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obra@list.obra.org
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--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

Joel Morrissette

Candi-
I was in the 4/5 race last night and there was quite a bit of confusion
after the 1/2/3s passed, so I'm CCing the list so everyone can benefit. We
went neutral and let them pass, then waited until we had a few-hundred-yard
gap before it was "game on". Apparently, the 1/2/3 field had let the gas
off quite a bit by the time we had all reached the front straightaway, and
the 4/5s closed in. We went left, assuming they would in turn go neutral to
let us pass. They never really did - we slowed up, they sped up, we chased
each other and finally got it worked out. What should have been protocol at
this point? Should the 1/2/3s have gone neutral to let us pass? What do we
do when we find ourselves going faster than the passing group and closing
the gap back up?

Thanks,
Joel

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:20 PM, Candi Murray wrote:

> OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc
>
> Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
> his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific
> instruction
> given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
> riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
> states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders from
> another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please
> ask.
>
>
>
> Candi
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

Candi Murray

OBRA rules can be found at http://www.obra.org/word_docs/2008rules.doc

Last night at PIR, the winner of the 3/4 race was disqualified for taking
his hands off the handlebars at the finish. This was a specific instruction
given at the start of the race by the officials and deemed 'dangerous'
riding. Another rule that needs to be enforced more at PIR is the one that
states that riders from one group cannot take pace or ride with riders from
another. If you do not understand the neutralization procedure, please ask.

Candi