Eugene cyclist killed today

Scott Jones

2008-06-03

It is just sad when I read about cyclist being killed.

What is worse, is today on my lunch I walk out of the office building to see
a messenger almost get killed by a parked car pulling out of a spot. Oh,
before you spout off about the driver, it was not the drivers fault because
the messenger was riding the WRONG WAY on a one way, oh and without a
helmet.

These are the things that drivers complain about and the rest of us get
yelled at for! Can't we just follow the rules of the road?

Be safe out there everyone.

2008/6/3 Randy Dreiling :

> Sounds like by all accounts this sadly was the bike riders fault.
> Sounds like he ran a light.
>
> Randy Dreiling
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: john
> To: OBRA
> Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 9:39:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
>
> Seatbelts compared to helmets is like comparing a green bean to an
> apple. they are both food but thats it. I bet the majority of automobile
> fatal accidents are due to head injury too. And no one is asking if the
> person was wearing a helmet.
>
>
>
> The majority of fatal bicycle and motorcycle accidents are due to
> automobiles(drivers...) . Don't forget that. emphasis should be on the
> real issue, similar to issues in Iraq, its not going to help much to just
> hand out bullet proof vest and helmets to everyone, the root issue must be
> addressed.
>
>
>
> Helmets are great and everything, but training and education are 100 times
> more important.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 6/3/08, J.Michael Manning * wrote:
>
> From: J.Michael Manning
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> To: masessa@charter.net, "OBRA"
> Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 8:58 AM
>
> When the story reports that the cyclist was wearing no helmet, it paints
> a certain picture of the cyclist. One that I do not identify with. As well,
> I typically make the false assumption that a cyclist without a helmet is not
> a "real" cyclist, and is therefore just one of those knuckleheads out there
> that make us all look irresponsible. But the truth is that I do sometimes
> see racing cyclists who still wish to defy the odds and ignore good
> commonsense by riding in traffic with air blowing in the wind. Helmets are
> an issue and the statistics support the fact that the majority of fatal
> accidents for bicyclists and motorcyclists are due to head trauma.
> Mike Manning
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:50:39 -0700
> > From: masessa@charter.net
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> >
> > It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was
> wearing a helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the
> driver or passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's
> the first question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there
> you wonder "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?".
> >
> > ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > > They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by
> a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing
> a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would
> have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a
> guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have
> saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of
> all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > George Schreck
> > > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > (503) 502-0425
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: Erik
> > > I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he
> wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact
> that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> > > > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
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> SkyDrive.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
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>


mckenzie thramer

2008-06-03

the girlfriend'd front door was the crime scene, i talked to a few people
and it seems as if the rider was trying to make a yellow light by turning
right, and the car was punching the gas to make the yellow, both sets of
eyes were on the light and not the road, i would say the responisbility is
shared

2008/6/3 Randy Dreiling :

> Sounds like by all accounts this sadly was the bike riders fault.
> Sounds like he ran a light.
>
> Randy Dreiling
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: john
> To: OBRA
> Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 9:39:50 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
>
> Seatbelts compared to helmets is like comparing a green bean to an
> apple. they are both food but thats it. I bet the majority of automobile
> fatal accidents are due to head injury too. And no one is asking if the
> person was wearing a helmet.
>
>
>
> The majority of fatal bicycle and motorcycle accidents are due to
> automobiles(drivers...) . Don't forget that. emphasis should be on the
> real issue, similar to issues in Iraq, its not going to help much to just
> hand out bullet proof vest and helmets to everyone, the root issue must be
> addressed.
>
>
>
> Helmets are great and everything, but training and education are 100 times
> more important.
>
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 6/3/08, J.Michael Manning * wrote:
>
> From: J.Michael Manning
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> To: masessa@charter.net, "OBRA"
> Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 8:58 AM
>
> When the story reports that the cyclist was wearing no helmet, it paints
> a certain picture of the cyclist. One that I do not identify with. As well,
> I typically make the false assumption that a cyclist without a helmet is not
> a "real" cyclist, and is therefore just one of those knuckleheads out there
> that make us all look irresponsible. But the truth is that I do sometimes
> see racing cyclists who still wish to defy the odds and ignore good
> commonsense by riding in traffic with air blowing in the wind. Helmets are
> an issue and the statistics support the fact that the majority of fatal
> accidents for bicyclists and motorcyclists are due to head trauma.
> Mike Manning
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:50:39 -0700
> > From: masessa@charter.net
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> >
> > It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was
> wearing a helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the
> driver or passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's
> the first question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there
> you wonder "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?".
> >
> > ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > > They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by
> a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing
> a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would
> have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a
> guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have
> saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of
> all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > George Schreck
> > > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > (503) 502-0425
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: Erik
> > > I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he
> wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact
> that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> > > > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> > > >
> > > >
> http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------
> Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. Get Windows Live
> SkyDrive.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Randy Dreiling

2008-06-03

Sounds like by all accounts this sadly was the bike riders fault.
Sounds like he ran a light.
 Randy Dreiling

----- Original Message ----
From: john
To: OBRA
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2008 9:39:50 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today

Seatbelts compared to helmets is like comparing a green bean to an apple.  they are both food but thats it.   I bet the majority of automobile fatal accidents are due to head injury too.   And no one is asking if the person was wearing a helmet.
 
The majority of fatal bicycle and motorcycle accidents are due to automobiles(drivers...) .  Don't forget that.  emphasis should be on the real issue, similar to issues in Iraq, its not going to help much to just hand out bullet proof vest and helmets to everyone, the root issue must be addressed.
 
Helmets are great and everything, but training and education are 100 times more important.  

--- On Tue, 6/3/08, J.Michael Manning wrote:

From: J.Michael Manning
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
To: masessa@charter.net, "OBRA"
Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 8:58 AM

When the story reports that the cyclist was wearing no helmet, it paints a certain picture of the cyclist. One that I do not identify with. As well, I typically make the false assumption that a cyclist without a helmet is not a "real" cyclist, and is therefore just one of those knuckleheads out there that make us all look irresponsible. But the truth is that I do sometimes see racing cyclists who still wish to defy the odds and ignore good commonsense by riding in traffic with air blowing in the wind. Helmets are an issue and the statistics support the fact that the majority of fatal accidents for bicyclists and motorcyclists are due to head trauma.
Mike Manning

________________________________
> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:50:39 -0700
> From: masessa@charter.net
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
>
> It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was wearing a helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the driver or passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's the first question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there you wonder "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?".
>
> ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Erik
> > I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.
> >
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> > > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> > >
> > > http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Monty Hill

2008-06-03

I agree that there is a bias in the media as well as the average person, cyclist included. On my commute I see AT LEAST 10 infractions by motorist. Half of which could potentially cause harm to another. And 2-3 for the cyclist I see. None of which would cause harm to another.

And my first question is why did the motorist feel it necessary to drive a car today? Was their bicycle busted? Did the bus break down?

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of J.Michael Manning
Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2008 8:59 AM
To: masessa@charter.net; OBRA
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today

When the story reports that the cyclist was wearing no helmet, it paints a certain picture of the cyclist. One that I do not identify with. As well, I typically make the false assumption that a cyclist without a helmet is not a "real" cyclist, and is therefore just one of those knuckleheads out there that make us all look irresponsible. But the truth is that I do sometimes see racing cyclists who still wish to defy the odds and ignore good commonsense by riding in traffic with air blowing in the wind. Helmets are an issue and the statistics support the fact that the majority of fatal accidents for bicyclists and motorcyclists are due to head trauma.
Mike Manning

________________________________
> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:50:39 -0700
> From: masessa@charter.net
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
>
> It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was wearing a helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the driver or passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's the first question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there you wonder "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?".
>
> ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Erik
> > I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.
> >
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> > > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> > >
> > > http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i'm Initiative from Microsoft.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
________________________________
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david jackson

2008-06-03

It isn't my intention to sound callous or indifferent in any way, shape, or form concerning the recent fatality of the Eugene cyclist. However, for all sorts of reasons (some objective, some subjective) people often confuse the terms 'cause and effect'.

The fact is - a collision (cause) between a cyclist and a motorist resulted in the cyclist's death (effect). Objectively, whether or not the cyclist was wearing a helmet at the time the collision took place isn't material to the outcome as it had nothing whatsoever to do with the effect. What is relevant, however, is: 1) why the event occurred as it did, and 2) what actually happened that precipitated its occurrence.

Tragic interactions between motorists and cyclists aren't likely to ever be reduced appreciably until or unless each entity respects the rights of the other and behaves accordingly. As it relates to cyclists, that could mean wearing bike helmets. In the case of motorists, it could mean being more observant and cautious. Regardless, collisions (cause) with motorists will likely continue to result in cyclist fatalities (effect) unless the root cause of the effect (why the event occurred and what actually happened that precipitated it) is resolved.
David Jackson
> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 10:54:48 -0700> From: masessa@charter.net> To: obra@list.obra.org; twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today> > The majority of automobile accident fatalities ARE due to not wearing a seatbelt and being thrown from the vehicle or thrown around inside the vehicle. Maybe head injury, maybe internal injury. The comparison is just. They are both something the vehicle operators can control to make themselves safer. > My original point was that reports state the info because people want to know, not necessarily to make a cyclist look irresponsible or not. > > > ---- john wrote: > > Seatbelts compared to helmets is like comparing a green bean to an apple.  they are both food but thats it.   I bet the majority of automobile fatal accidents are due to head injury too.   And no one is asking if the person was wearing a helmet. > >  > > The majority of fatal bicycle and motorcycle accidents are due to automobiles(drivers...) .  Don't forget that.  emphasis should be on the real issue, similar to issues in Iraq, its not going to help much to just hand out bullet proof vest and helmets to everyone, the root issue must be addressed. > >  > > Helmets are great and everything, but training and education are 100 times more important.  > > > > > > --- On Tue, 6/3/08, J.Michael Manning wrote:> > > > From: J.Michael Manning > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today> > To: masessa@charter.net, "OBRA" > > Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 8:58 AM> > > > > > > > > > #yiv2017243431 .hmmessage P> > {> > margin:0px;padding:0px;}> > #yiv2017243431 .hmmessage> > {> > FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}> > > > > > When the story reports that the cyclist was wearing no helmet, it paints a certain picture of the cyclist. One that I do not identify with. As well, I typically make the false assumption that a cyclist without a helmet is not a "real" cyclist, and is therefore just one of those knuckleheads out there that make us all look irresponsible. But the truth is that I do sometimes see racing cyclists who still wish to defy the odds and ignore good commonsense by riding in traffic with air blowing in the wind. Helmets are an issue and the statistics support the fact that the majority of fatal accidents for bicyclists and motorcyclists are due to head trauma.> > Mike Manning> > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:50:39 -0700> > > From: masessa@charter.net> > > To: obra@list.obra.org> > > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today> > > > > > It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was wearing a helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the driver or passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's the first question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there you wonder "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?". > > > > > > ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote: > > > > They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.> > > > > > > > --> > > > > > > > George Schreck > > > > gschreckchat@comcast.net > > > > (503) 502-0425> > > > > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > > > From: Erik > > > > I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.> > > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700> > > > > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com> > > > > To: obra@list.obra.org> > > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today> > > > > > > > > > http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7> > > > > _______________________________________________> > > > > OBRA mailing list> > > > > obra@list.obra.org> > > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.> > > _______________________________________________> > > OBRA mailing list> > > obra@list.obra.org> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > > > > > > > Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. Get Windows Live SkyDrive. _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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masessa@charter.net

2008-06-03

The majority of automobile accident fatalities ARE due to not wearing a seatbelt and being thrown from the vehicle or thrown around inside the vehicle. Maybe head injury, maybe internal injury. The comparison is just. They are both something the vehicle operators can control to make themselves safer.
My original point was that reports state the info because people want to know, not necessarily to make a cyclist look irresponsible or not.

---- john wrote:
> Seatbelts compared to helmets is like comparing a green bean to an apple.  they are both food but thats it.   I bet the majority of automobile fatal accidents are due to head injury too.   And no one is asking if the person was wearing a helmet.
>  
> The majority of fatal bicycle and motorcycle accidents are due to automobiles(drivers...) .  Don't forget that.  emphasis should be on the real issue, similar to issues in Iraq, its not going to help much to just hand out bullet proof vest and helmets to everyone, the root issue must be addressed.
>  
> Helmets are great and everything, but training and education are 100 times more important.  
>
>
> --- On Tue, 6/3/08, J.Michael Manning wrote:
>
> From: J.Michael Manning
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> To: masessa@charter.net, "OBRA"
> Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 8:58 AM
>
>
>
>
> #yiv2017243431 .hmmessage P
> {
> margin:0px;padding:0px;}
> #yiv2017243431 .hmmessage
> {
> FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma;}
>
>
> When the story reports that the cyclist was wearing no helmet, it paints a certain picture of the cyclist. One that I do not identify with. As well, I typically make the false assumption that a cyclist without a helmet is not a "real" cyclist, and is therefore just one of those knuckleheads out there that make us all look irresponsible. But the truth is that I do sometimes see racing cyclists who still wish to defy the odds and ignore good commonsense by riding in traffic with air blowing in the wind. Helmets are an issue and the statistics support the fact that the majority of fatal accidents for bicyclists and motorcyclists are due to head trauma.
> Mike Manning
>
>
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:50:39 -0700
> > From: masessa@charter.net
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> >
> > It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was wearing a helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the driver or passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's the first question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there you wonder "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?".
> >
> > ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > > They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > George Schreck
> > > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > > (503) 502-0425
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > From: Erik
> > > I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> > > > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> > > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> > > >
> > > > http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > OBRA mailing list
> > > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. Get Windows Live SkyDrive. _______________________________________________
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gschreckchat@comcast.net

2008-06-03

I just feel that when a cyclist is hit by a motor vehicle, the implication is that if they are wearing a helemt they are a victim, but if not, somehow it is their fault. The fact is that seat belts do reduce injuries in an auto accident, but when one is hit by a vehicle, unless there are head injuries, it has little to do with it.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From:

> It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was wearing a
> helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the driver or
> passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's the first
> question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there you wonder
> "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?".
>
> ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by a
> truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing a
> helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would have been
> at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a guy was hit
> at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have saved him when
> getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of all reporters when
> reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Erik
> > I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't
> wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was
> hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.
> >
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> > > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> > >
> > >
> http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=1068
> 79&sid=1&fid=7
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft.
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
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> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Seatbelts compared to helmets is like comparing a green bean to an apple.  they are both food but thats it.   I bet the majority of automobile fatal accidents are due to head injury too.   And no one is asking if the person was wearing a helmet.
 
The majority of fatal bicycle and motorcycle accidents are due to automobiles(drivers...) .  Don't forget that.  emphasis should be on the real issue, similar to issues in Iraq, its not going to help much to just hand out bullet proof vest and helmets to everyone, the root issue must be addressed.
 
Helmets are great and everything, but training and education are 100 times more important.  

--- On Tue, 6/3/08, J.Michael Manning <cycleone23@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: J.Michael Manning <cycleone23@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
To: masessa@charter.net, "OBRA" <obra@list.obra.org>
Date: Tuesday, June 3, 2008, 8:58 AM

#yiv2017243431 .hmmessage P
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When the story reports that the cyclist was wearing no helmet, it paints a certain picture of the cyclist. One that I do not identify with. As well, I typically make the false assumption that a cyclist without a helmet is not a "real" cyclist, and is therefore just one of those knuckleheads out there that make us all look irresponsible. But the truth is that I do sometimes see racing cyclists who still wish to defy the odds and ignore good commonsense by riding in traffic with air blowing in the wind. Helmets are an issue and the statistics support the fact that the majority of fatal accidents for bicyclists and motorcyclists are due to head trauma.
Mike Manning

> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:50:39 -0700
> From: masessa@charter.net
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
>
> It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was wearing a helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the driver or passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's the first question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there you wonder "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?".
>
> ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Erik <elongride@hotmail.com>
> > I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.
> >
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> > > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> > >
> > > http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Enjoy 5 GB of free, password-protected online storage. Get Windows Live SkyDrive. _______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


J.Michael Manning

2008-06-03

When the story reports that the cyclist was wearing no helmet, it paints a certain picture of the cyclist. One that I do not identify with. As well, I typically make the false assumption that a cyclist without a helmet is not a "real" cyclist, and is therefore just one of those knuckleheads out there that make us all look irresponsible. But the truth is that I do sometimes see racing cyclists who still wish to defy the odds and ignore good commonsense by riding in traffic with air blowing in the wind. Helmets are an issue and the statistics support the fact that the majority of fatal accidents for bicyclists and motorcyclists are due to head trauma.
Mike Manning

> Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:50:39 -0700
> From: masessa@charter.net
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
>
> It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was wearing a helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the driver or passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's the first question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there you wonder "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?".
>
> ---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> > They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.
> >
> > --
> >
> > George Schreck
> > gschreckchat@comcast.net
> > (503) 502-0425
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> > From: Erik
> > I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.
> >
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> > > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> > > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> > >
> > > http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > OBRA mailing list
> > > obra@list.obra.org
> > > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> > Change the world with e-mail. Join the i’m Initiative from Microsoft.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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masessa@charter.net

2008-06-03

It's not really just a bicycle thing to mention whether a rider was wearing a helmet. Most auto accident reports make a statement about the driver or passenger wearing a seatbelt or not. It's included because it's the first question people hearing about an accident ask. If it's not there you wonder "were they wearing a helmet/seatbelt?".

---- gschreckchat@comcast.net wrote:
> They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.
>
> --
>
> George Schreck
> gschreckchat@comcast.net
> (503) 502-0425
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Erik
> I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> > From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
> >
> > http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> Change the world with e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft.


gschreckchat@comcast.net

2008-06-03

They mention in in all bicycle injuries. When the woman was crished by a truck in downtown Portland this year, they mentioned that she was wearing a helmet, as if somehow if she had not been wearing a helment, she would have been at fault when the truck crushed her. They also mentioned it when a guy was hit at 50 mph, as if a styrofoam beer cooler on his head would have saved him when getting hit at 50 mph. Somehow it has become the mantra of all reporters when reporting on bicycle/vehicle collissions.

--

George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Erik
I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.

> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
>
> http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Change the world with e-mail. Join the i?m Initiative from Microsoft.


Mikey

2008-06-02


Actually, it's pretty tough to say one way or the other.  I heard of a
cyclist that was hit by a car a few years ago and broke his neck as his
head hit the windshield.  They were wearing a helmet and it didn't save
their life.   I myself was also T-boned by a car doing 35-40 mph and
came away with only a broken knee and road rash, even after hitting the
windshield....and I was not wearing a helmet either.  Yeah....I got
real lucky.  I think it all depends upon how you're hit and how you
land.



Mike



Erik wrote:



.hmmessage P
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}
I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point
out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway.  As if that would've saved
him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into
the air.





> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700

> From: cdbrandt@gmail.com

> To: obra@list.obra.org

> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today

>

>
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7

> _______________________________________________

> OBRA mailing list

> obra@list.obra.org

> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org




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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


I like how they fail to mention any head trauma, but point out that he wasn't wearing a helmet anyway. As if that would've saved him from an impact that was hard enough to throw his bike 20 feet into the air.

> Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 19:03:20 -0700
> From: cdbrandt@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Eugene cyclist killed today
>
> http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
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Chris Brandt

2008-06-02

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.cms.support.viewStory.cls?cid=106879&sid=1&fid=7