Erik
Yeah. The closer a race is to town (any town), the more people will show up.
A short course with multiple laps doesn't equal "short track". I know some of you have been racing in Oregon long enough to remember the Cherry Festival XC in The Dalles. That was one of my favorite courses when it was still going. That had to be the the most challenging 4-miles (and like 4-5 laps) I've ever ridden, and it was well-within city limits. Great turnout for racers and spectators alike. Not every XC Race has to be a big giant loop with 3,000-4,000 feet of climbing. We have plenty of those races in Oregon, and they can be a blast to ride on - I always loved races like Oakridge. I can also appreciate a race on a 5 or 6-mile course with multiple laps, which basically amounts to an XC circuit race.
Stick a couple of races like those in the middle of a summer schedule - when it's actually nice to be outside - and racers' families might not mind sitting through a race that was easy to get to and that they might actually get to see. When I was a junior racer - waaay back when - my Mom's only complaint at any race was that she often didn't get to see anything while my Dad and I were out on the course - She was completely bored. Imagine making the drive to the middle-of-nowhere venue of a race like the Jedi as someone who's not racing (or as a racer's wife/girlfriend who IS racing) and you'll gain a clearer understanding of why that race gets such a poor turnout. No wife or girlfriend loves you THAT much, so you end up spending your Sunday at furniture shopping and you'll get to go race when she might not be miserable.
Give me a clearly marked course and a start/finish line, and I'll show up with the corresponding bike and my entry fee, but it has to be a bearable trip for EVERYONE involved.
-Erik
From: rondot@spiritone.com
To: raggy23@yahoo.com; mountainbikepros@msn.com; shane.young@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 16:45:22 -0700
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race number
Something the promoters might think about with
regard to the races that might be held in the "summer" is to not try to make
those specific races where getting permits etc. for federal/state or county
lands may be a problem, but to possibly try to get a venue that is maybe closer
in to a population area where the fire danger or other wildlife issues are not
as critical. Maybe a huge climb would not be possible for that type of
race, but the fact it is close to "people" might just get a better
turnout. All Mtb races do not have to have long mile laps. We are
Oregonians and thinking outside the box is in our nature. Look at those
vacant areas in and around the places you are living and think about having the
spirit of a youngster... and saying to yourself. I could make a course of
that space that would be a real hoot. Truth is in some areas it may
seem more like a cross or short track course or event. But... If you are
getting people off their butts and out on their bikes racing (and for promoters
getting the numbers) then hey! I like that idea. The Portland
Short Track Series is a good example of using the available resources to have
some fun. There are other areas here in the metro area that could work as
well. I know Salem, Bend Eugene etc have these places. If they have
a hill... all the better, but when I was a kid we raced out in the sage
brush. It was hot dusty (unless we strung a hose and got it wet) and we
rocked on our clunkers. I have had more fun racing on low tech courses,
equipment than anyone person should have in a lifetime because.... we created
our fun, we did not expect someone to create some grandiose affair with all the
"specific necessities of a pro course". It was dirt, bikes and people
riding and the rest is history. I am 58 still alive and racing.
Build the course and we will come. I will come winter or summer. I
would rather ride my bike than watch TV... I do not care what it on.... you can
always record it at watch later.
It is Friday so go ride.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From:
Randy Dreiling
To: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team ;
shane.young@comcast.net ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2008 12:30
PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race
number
Good point there are races in the summer and there numbers are low
If I remember right Hood didn't break 100 last year
I agree IF those races pull 100 I am open to rethinking Oakridge in
the Summer
Remember I also have owl and fire issues I have to deal with through
the forest service now
Take care
Randy Dreiling
-----
Original Message ----
From: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
To:
shane.young@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Friday, June
6, 2008 11:03:49 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race number
Well put Shane. As promoters we will give in to demand. So each one
of us would have to make a decision on weather to do the April and May
races. I must admit. I do see both sides of this. I work at a church. I
can only miss one sunday a month unless I am really good at working it. So for
me it would be really nice if we spred out the races through the Spring and
Summer. As a team we focus of the Series and State Championships (Return on
the Jedi, June 28th & 29th). We have had a great time doing the
series and will focus on it next year weather most of it is in the
spring or if it is spread out through the summer.
I must admit,
I am addicted to MTB racing. So I can't help my self. I think if someone held
a race in February I would go. I go from January to early April with out a
race of any type and I am ready. Even if my body is not ready.
If
we want races in the summer we need to go and fill up the ones we have. If you
look at the schedule we have one race in July and 1 race in August and the MTB
hill climb Championships in Sep. It seem they are offering what everyone
wants. I will commit that if all those races have 100 riders at them I will
put on a summer race. I bet if we can pull that off we could talk Randy into
bringing back Oakridge next year.
Here they are: LETS FILL UP THE
3 SUMMER RACES
Test of Endurance June 15
Pickets
Charge June 22
Cream Puff June
29
RETURN ON THE JEDI JUNE 28TH & 29TH
State Games
July 20
Northwest Challenge Aug 30
Ashland Hill climb Sep
14
That doesn't count the Portland Short track or the
Pistis Short Track (in Grants Pass) or the Super D races from Ashland up to
Portland.
As a promoter I also see the other side. But I have
already covered that.
I am sure Mike would love to have more
volunteers help out. He doesn't get paid for all the work he puts into
the series and MTB racing in Oregon. So I want to Thank him for all he dose. I
know that the complaining has got to were him thin. I would say this has
chased others out of his position. So, Thank You Mike, You Rock. We could all
show our our thanks and go to the Test of Endurance and Pickets. Oh ya, the
Jedi.
Cliff McCann
Pistis
Ministries
Pistis.us
541-659-4104
> From:
shane.young@comcast.net
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thu, 5
Jun 2008 23:17:16 +0000
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race
number
>
> Kevin is right, Craig is right, Cliff is right, Dave
is right. Numbers are numbers and they will only take you so far, but they do
hold some truth.
>
> When I took a four year sample, this is
what the numbers showed.
>
> 1st MTB race of the season usually
had the highest turn out.
>
> Race turnout for races after
school was out of session would have close to half the rider turnout.
>
> When the series fractured, races in the series had twice as many
riders, aside for Spring Thaw.
>
> Races that were part of the
high-school series had more riders.
>
> When school was out,
there were very few juniors that raced and the beginner category at all ages
almost became no existed.
>
> Races closer to Portland, Bend and
Ashland had higher turnouts.
>
> Now would the number increase in
the summer if there were fewer races in the spring? Maybe. I am not convinced
of that. I have had plenty of conversation with people throughout the years
and the number one reason people said they dropped out was because summer was
for family activities and their family wasnt set on MTB being a family
activity.
>
> Bend: Bend has higher turnouts for a couple of
reasons. They have a ton of one day riders that dont race any other races
other than the Bend races. It is easier to convince the family to go to Bend
for a weekend of fun, than say Grants Pass. Races like Race around Bend and
Picketts Charge are great courses for beginners, they werent too technical
and they didnt have a lot of climbing.
>
> Ashland: Like Bend,
Ashland has a ton of one day riders that dont go to any other races, and
again it is easier to convince the family to go to Ashland.
>
>
So why not more races in the summer? Places like Hornings Hideout and Big K
are booked or too expensive in the summer. Places like Oakridge, Grants Pass,
Falls City and so on have to worry about the forest service cancelling the
race due to fire danger.
>
> What do you need to do if you to
race during the summer and want to see more races during the summer? Stop
racing in the spring, and make sure you make ALL of the races during the
summer. This will send promoters a clear message that there is a need for more
racing during the summer and not so much in the spring. Better yet, you or
your team put on a race in the summer.
>
> If someone wants, I
believe Candi has all the race data for years and years. Someone could get the
data and break it down for the last 10 years or even more; maybe to a time
when racing started in May and we can see if Craigs theory is correct.
>
> Now if gas prices continue, I think turnout will be more
strictly dictated by proximity to Portland, Ashland, and Bend; you can kiss
goodbye all the other factors. Has anyone thought of starting a Race bus, just
Willamette Pass has a Ski bus? If we could get a bus to leave from Portland,
Bend, and Ashland, I bet we could get more riders to show up to a race.
>
> Shane
> -------------- Original message
----------------------
> From: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
> >
> > The problem the
promoters have is more people go to races before school gets
> >
out. Races have not done well in the summer months. I would say to break even
> > you have to have 70-80 riders. We loss races when a promoter is
paying to put on
> > a race.
> >
> > Now if we
changed the race series and limited to one race a month (maybe 2 in
>
> May and June) and really push the team side of things might get more
riders out
> > in the summer to do the series. If you really pushed
the team compition they
> > would push riders to ride more races.
The problem you have is as a promoter you
> > put out alot of money
up front. It is hard to take a chance on a maybe. Another
> > option
is the summer promoters can raise the price to race. That way when only
> > 50 riders show up they can still break even.Cliff McCann Pistis
> > MinistriesPistis.us541-659-4104> Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2008
14:38:23 -0700> From:
> > masessa@charter.net> To:
obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike
> > race
number> > I agree with you Craig. I love cross more than anything, but
when
> > the season starts in the early winter I do not want to deal
with cold, wet and
> > mud at every race. I found myself skipping
Horning's and Mudslinger simply
> > because I didn't want to deal
with all that goes with a wet, muddy race. > NOTE:
> > this is my
personal opinion so all you bashers can refrain from ripping me for
>
> being a wimp :-)> I love mtb racing in the warm/heat of the summer
with dry
> > trails. It's also way more fun for the racers and
families to hang out and enjoy
> > the day.> Dave Masessa>
> ---- Craig Austin wrote: > >
>
> Maybe if the promoters would ever try STARTING the season a little later
they'd
> > find that it's not just a summertime vacation issue, it
might be that we're
> > tired of racing mountain bikes by then. It
might be that we've replaced our
> > derailleurs, chains, and
cassettes a couple of times already and don't want to
> > spend more
on repairs. It might be that we've raced all spring and don't have
>
> particularly fond memories of mountain bike racing a certain course
because it
> > hasn't been fun (as fun as it could be under better
conditions). > > > > Look
> > back at the mountain bike
"season" in the last five years. The first race of the
> > year:>
> > > 2003: March 29> > 2004: April 4> > 2005: March
26> > 2006: March
> > 26> > 2007: March 25> >
2008: April 6> > > > You don't have good data about
> >
turnout in later races, because you've never tried moving the season back to
> > find out. The complaint we used to hear from promoters was that
the Bend
> > mountain bike races got much better turnout. There's a
reason for that; they
> > were held in raceable conditions. Spring
races can be great in Bend; if it's not
> > snowing, the trails are
very rideable. Not so on the west side.> > > > In 2005,
>
> the year Kevin only had 97 racers, that was already the 10th XC race of
the year
> > (not counting the TOE or creampuff). In 2005, we'd had
four XC races by May 1. I
> > don't know about the rest of you, but
I love to race 'cross--just not on my
> > mountain bike. I love mud,
and I love muddy courses. And we get plenty of that
> > in the fall
and winter. Oregon is blessed with wonderful trails and great
> >
weather in the summer; I for one would love the opportunity to enjoy both at
the
> > same time. > > > > Even 'cross can only sustain
the fever pitch for about 10
> > weeks. Those guys have done a great
job of giving the people what they want,
> > when they want it. >
> > > Start the mountain bike season in late May or early
>
> June; let the roadies have the Banana Belts and the early season stage
races.
> > Mountain biking is a summer thing. I know I'd be at a lot
more races.> > > >
> > Craig Austin> > > >
________________________________> > > > From:
> >
obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Randy Dreiling> > Sent: Thu
6/5/2008
> > 1:11 PM> > To: kevin thompson;
obra@list.obra.org> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Mt
> > Bike race
number> > > > > > > > As a promoter of over 10
years.> > Kevin is 100%
> > correct after June numbers drop
big time, even if there is no other event the
> > same day> >
I think we have had this chat 20 times now.> > It has nothing to do
> > with promoters, nothing to do with courses, nothing to do with
cost...remember
> > as I always point out it was the same cost to
race the oakridge ftf last year as
> > it was in 1992, even cheaper
for JR's.> > The bottom line is people stop showing
> > up
after June> > We can go round and round about it and why it happens, but
the
> > answer is people stop coming.> > This is a BIG part of
why there is no oakridge
> > ftf this year, when I was not allowed
by the forest service to host the event in
> > May and instead I
would have had the race in July I decided to pass for this
> > year,
as it sucks to put a bunch of effort out to host a race for 50-75 people
> > no offense and at the end of the day loose money.> > I
miss not seeing you
> > racers this year, but I can't afford to
loose money.> > As before think about
> > the LONG list of
races that are no longer around.> > Take care> > Randy
>
> Dreiling> > > > > > ----- Original Message ---->
> From: kevin thompson
> > >
> To: obra@list.obra.org> > Sent: Thursday, June
> > 5,
2008 12:56:06 PM> > Subject: [OBRA Chat] Falls City Firecracker
AWESOME> > >
> > > John, and everyone else who is
interested,> > > > I am speaking for myself,
> > none of
the handful of other mountain bike promoters have said they agree with
> > anything I am going to say here.> > > > This year
was my 6th year running the
> > Firecracker. Of course I want more
people there. It takes just as much work to
> > put a race if 10
people show up, as it does if 200 show up.> > > > Several years
> > back, Shane Young was doing the OBRA rep job at the mountain
bike races and one
> > of the things he did to entertain himself was
to track attendance through out
> > the season. The conclusion that
he made was that after school got out in June,
> > that fewer racers
showed up to race. After reading John's email today, I went
> > back
to look at my history in the OBRA arcives. My data backs Shane's data up. I
> > checked the old schedules to see what conficts where happening
on the dates the
> > Firecracker was happening. This is what I
found.> > > > The most surprising to
> > me was in 2005
the firecracer had an entire July weekend to its self (just what
> >
John seems to want). I had 97 racers.> > > > The complete history
is:> > > >
> > July 2003, Brownsville crit, and state
track on the same day, 115 racers> > July
> > 2004, Silverton
rr, firecracker is the xc state champ, 89 racers> > July 2005,
>
> no compitition the entire weekend, 97 racers> > August 2006,
Woodland rr, 75
> > racers> > May 2007, Swan Island, 158
racers> > June 2008, Silverton, 170
> > racers.> > >
> The last 2 years, the race was before school got out and I almost
> > doubled participation. > > > > I tried for 4 years
to promote a race in the
> > summer, it was not really worth my
effort.> > > > Any thoughts?> > > > See you
>
> all at Pickets.> > > > Kevin> > > >
> >
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