Leibowitz, Flo

I agree with Kristin on this one. I wasn't there Wednesday but will be at some of these once final exams are over. I'd much rather have an all Cat 4 pack to race with. When we have to race with racers in higher Cats, it changes the race. When it's all 4's, I feel like it's more of a level playing field and that's more motivating.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Heather Gundersen
Sent: Thu 6/12/2008 10:07 AM
To: elisehuggins@msn.com
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; obra-bounces@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series

I really liked it and thought the large pack was fun. I also enjoyed the faster pace. I do, however, understand the other points of view about knowing your competition. It is fun either way!

On 6/12/08, elisehuggins@msn.com wrote:

I agree - it was sketchy at times and a bit frustrating not knowing who your cometition was. I think several cat4's finished in front of cat3's - am I right? Delaying by 1-2 minutes might improve things.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Kristin

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:48:05
To:"david hart"
Cc:obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series


>>Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to see such a big field of ladies.

I'm not sure how others felt, but I can't say I liked being in such an enormous group. It was really sketchy at times, since everyone just stayed packed together for the most part. Maybe waiting 1 minute or so after the seniors go by, rather then having us go right away, would be a good idea? Anyone else?

Kristin



On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:38 AM, david hart > wrote:
Thank you for working with the new schedule. It paid off as you notice in results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you hadn't noticed.

Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so it's easier to do placings.

Note-numbers go on your left side. A lot of you had the number upside down on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number placements. And why do you like the numbers so flappy? Making a fashion statement? : )

David Hart
Official
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mark duff

Well stated by someone who know what he is talking about!!
Thanks David.
Women Cat 4's you have your own series Starting this weekend. http://www.obra.org/flyers/2008/cat_4_womens_series.html
Please come out and support it. We should see more than 40 women this Sunday. If not shame on you!!!
cheers
Mark

> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 10:28:53 -0700
> From: davauk@hevanet.com
> To: elisehuggins@msn.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org; obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series
>
> A cat4 placing in front of cat3 might be a quick category
> upgrade...special upgrade not requiring extended accumulation of
> points. Darwinistic natural selection. Category upgrade requires more
> than just speed...bike handling is important, and this is why a time
> trial win a cat1 does not make. But Tabor has everything: climbing,
> descending, tight quarters--it's a good qualifier for showing true
> bicycle racing ability.
>
> I know results are important, but it would be cool if your "competition"
> was any rider you were in contact with.
>
> My .02...
>
> David
>
>
>
> elisehuggins@msn.com wrote:
> > I agree - it was sketchy at times and a bit frustrating not knowing who your cometition was. I think several cat4's finished in front of cat3's - am I right? Delaying by 1-2 minutes might improve things.
> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Kristin
> >
> > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:48:05
> > To:"david hart"
> > Cc:obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series
> >
> >
> >
> >>> Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to see such a big field of ladies.
> >>>
> >
> > I'm not sure how others felt, but I can't say I liked being in such an enormous group. It was really sketchy at times, since everyone just stayed packed together for the most part. Maybe waiting 1 minute or so after the seniors go by, rather then having us go right away, would be a good idea? Anyone else?
> >
> > Kristin
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:38 AM, david hart > wrote:
> > Thank you for working with the new schedule. It paid off as you notice in results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you hadn't noticed.
> >
> > Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so it's easier to do placings.
> >
> > Note-numbers go on your left side. A lot of you had the number upside down on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number placements. And why do you like the numbers so flappy? Making a fashion statement? : )
> >
> > David Hart
> > Official
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1499 - Release Date: 6/12/2008 7:13 AM
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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David Auker

A cat4 placing in front of cat3 might be a quick category
upgrade...special upgrade not requiring extended accumulation of
points. Darwinistic natural selection. Category upgrade requires more
than just speed...bike handling is important, and this is why a time
trial win a cat1 does not make. But Tabor has everything: climbing,
descending, tight quarters--it's a good qualifier for showing true
bicycle racing ability.

I know results are important, but it would be cool if your "competition"
was any rider you were in contact with.

My .02...

David

elisehuggins@msn.com wrote:
> I agree - it was sketchy at times and a bit frustrating not knowing who your cometition was. I think several cat4's finished in front of cat3's - am I right? Delaying by 1-2 minutes might improve things.
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristin
>
> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:48:05
> To:"david hart"
> Cc:obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series
>
>
>
>>> Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to see such a big field of ladies.
>>>
>
> I'm not sure how others felt, but I can't say I liked being in such an enormous group. It was really sketchy at times, since everyone just stayed packed together for the most part. Maybe waiting 1 minute or so after the seniors go by, rather then having us go right away, would be a good idea? Anyone else?
>
> Kristin
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:38 AM, david hart > wrote:
> Thank you for working with the new schedule. It paid off as you notice in results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you hadn't noticed.
>
> Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so it's easier to do placings.
>
> Note-numbers go on your left side. A lot of you had the number upside down on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number placements. And why do you like the numbers so flappy? Making a fashion statement? : )
>
> David Hart
> Official
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 270.3.0/1499 - Release Date: 6/12/2008 7:13 AM
>

Heather Gundersen

I really liked it and thought the large pack was fun. I also enjoyed the
faster pace. I do, however, understand the other points of view about
knowing your competition. It is fun either way!

On 6/12/08, elisehuggins@msn.com wrote:
>
> I agree - it was sketchy at times and a bit frustrating not knowing who
> your cometition was. I think several cat4's finished in front of cat3's - am
> I right? Delaying by 1-2 minutes might improve things.
> Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kristin
>
> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:48:05
> To:"david hart"
> Cc:obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series
>
>
> >>Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to
> see such a big field of ladies.
>
> I'm not sure how others felt, but I can't say I liked being in such an
> enormous group. It was really sketchy at times, since everyone just stayed
> packed together for the most part. Maybe waiting 1 minute or so after the
> seniors go by, rather then having us go right away, would be a good idea?
> Anyone else?
>
> Kristin
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:38 AM, david hart suckwheel@gmail.com> > wrote:
> Thank you for working with the new schedule. It paid off as you notice in
> results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and
> an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you
> hadn't noticed.
>
> Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to
> see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so
> it's easier to do placings.
>
> Note-numbers go on your left side. A lot of you had the number upside down
> on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number
> placements. And why do you like the numbers so flappy? Making a fashion
> statement? : )
>
> David Hart
> Official
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra <
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org>
>
>
>
> --
>
> www.runbikeswim.net
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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elisehuggins@msn.com

I agree - it was sketchy at times and a bit frustrating not knowing who your cometition was. I think several cat4's finished in front of cat3's - am I right? Delaying by 1-2 minutes might improve things.
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: Kristin

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:48:05
To:"david hart"
Cc:obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series

>>Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns?  It was nice to see such a big field of ladies.

I'm not sure how others felt, but I can't say I liked being in such an enormous group. It was really sketchy at times, since everyone just stayed packed together for the most part. Maybe waiting 1 minute or so after the seniors go by, rather then having us go right away, would be a good idea? Anyone else?

Kristin

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:38 AM, david hart > wrote:
Thank you for working with the new schedule.  It paid off as you notice in results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you hadn't noticed.

Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns?  It was nice to see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so it's easier to do placings.

Note-numbers go on your left side.  A lot of you had the number upside down on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number placements.  And why do you like the numbers so flappy?  Making a fashion statement?  : )

David Hart
Official
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Josh LeBus

Some feedback from the Bridgetown ladies was that here was an evident
advantage for the stronger 4's to simply attach to the 1/2/3's and benefit
from the larger group and pace. It was also mentioned by our 3's racer, Anne
Davis, that having the extra women benefited the weaker senior women by
having a larger group to hide out in. I also agree that pack dynamics are
important to learn and that's a good course to test it but when the women
4's had 31 racers that's a pretty good size pack to learn how to ride in and
i'm sure the 1/2/3 women are pretty confident and comfortable already with
their pack riding skills. i know the race environment is often the only time
that large groups of women riders come together but the integrity of these
races shouldn't be jeopardized for the sake of learning how to ride in a
pack.

josh lebus
bridgetown velo

On 6/12/08, mark duff wrote:
>
> maybe keeping it the way it is, is a good idea. pack dynamics are important
> to learn. I got a few complaints from my ladies but i told them the same
> thing. how are others going to learn to ride in larger groups without doing
> it.
> cheers
> mark duff
> www.veloforma.blogspot.com
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:48:05 -0700
> From: kristinw@gmail.com
> To: suckwheel@gmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series
>
> >>Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to
> see such a big field of ladies.
>
> I'm not sure how others felt, but I can't say I liked being in such an
> enormous group. It was really sketchy at times, since everyone just stayed
> packed together for the most part. Maybe waiting 1 minute or so after the
> seniors go by, rather then having us go right away, would be a good idea?
> Anyone else?
>
> Kristin
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:38 AM, david hart wrote:
>
> Thank you for working with the new schedule. It paid off as you notice in
> results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and
> an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you
> hadn't noticed.
>
> Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to
> see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so
> it's easier to do placings.
>
> Note-numbers go on your left side. A lot of you had the number upside down
> on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number
> placements. And why do you like the numbers so flappy? Making a fashion
> statement? : )
>
> David Hart
> Official
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> www.runbikeswim.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
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> Windows Live™ Messenger. Learn How.
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>
>

Michelle Lichtenfels

I actually quite liked the dynamics of the bigger pack and having the
opportunity to ride with the more experienced riders (senior & masters
women).

That being said, I missed being able to more closely compete with the women
in my own category (4). If you're racing to place, you need to know who
you're *really* racing against. Isn't that part of having a category in the
first place? Having a combined field really changes those dynamics.

In any case, I liked the new format and had fun racing, but there are some
clear tradeoffs, competitively speaking.

Michelle

2008/6/12 mark duff :

> maybe keeping it the way it is, is a good idea. pack dynamics are important
> to learn. I got a few complaints from my ladies but i told them the same
> thing. how are others going to learn to ride in larger groups without doing
> it.
> cheers
> mark duff
> www.veloforma.blogspot.com
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:48:05 -0700
> From: kristinw@gmail.com
> To: suckwheel@gmail.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series
>
>
> >>Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to
> see such a big field of ladies.
>
> I'm not sure how others felt, but I can't say I liked being in such an
> enormous group. It was really sketchy at times, since everyone just stayed
> packed together for the most part. Maybe waiting 1 minute or so after the
> seniors go by, rather then having us go right away, would be a good idea?
> Anyone else?
>
> Kristin
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:38 AM, david hart wrote:
>
> Thank you for working with the new schedule. It paid off as you notice in
> results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and
> an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you
> hadn't noticed.
>
> Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to
> see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so
> it's easier to do placings.
>
> Note-numbers go on your left side. A lot of you had the number upside down
> on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number
> placements. And why do you like the numbers so flappy? Making a fashion
> statement? : )
>
> David Hart
> Official
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> www.runbikeswim.net
>
>
> ------------------------------
> It's easy to add contacts from Facebook and other social sites through
> Windows Live™ Messenger. Learn How.
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>

mark duff

maybe keeping it the way it is, is a good idea. pack dynamics are important to learn. I got a few complaints from my ladies but i told them the same thing. how are others going to learn to ride in larger groups without doing it.
cheers
mark duff
www.veloforma.blogspot.com

Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2008 08:48:05 -0700
From: kristinw@gmail.com
To: suckwheel@gmail.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Wed Tabor Series

>>Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice
to see such a big field of ladies.

I'm not sure how others felt, but I can't say I liked being in such an enormous group. It was really sketchy at times, since everyone just stayed packed together for the most part. Maybe waiting 1 minute or so after the seniors go by, rather then having us go right away, would be a good idea? Anyone else?

Kristin

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:38 AM, david hart wrote:

Thank you for working with the new schedule. It paid off as you notice in results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you hadn't noticed.

Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so it's easier to do placings.

Note-numbers go on your left side. A lot of you had the number upside down on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number placements. And why do you like the numbers so flappy? Making a fashion statement? : )

David Hart

Official

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

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Kristin

>>Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to
see such a big field of ladies.

I'm not sure how others felt, but I can't say I liked being in such an
enormous group. It was really sketchy at times, since everyone just stayed
packed together for the most part. Maybe waiting 1 minute or so after the
seniors go by, rather then having us go right away, would be a good idea?
Anyone else?

Kristin

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 8:38 AM, david hart wrote:

> Thank you for working with the new schedule. It paid off as you notice in
> results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and
> an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you
> hadn't noticed.
>
> Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to
> see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so
> it's easier to do placings.
>
> Note-numbers go on your left side. A lot of you had the number upside down
> on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number
> placements. And why do you like the numbers so flappy? Making a fashion
> statement? : )
>
> David Hart
> Official
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

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david hart

Thank you for working with the new schedule. It paid off as you notice in results, we, er, Candi and Mike(s) placed everyone. It took two cameras and an extra person (Mike) to handle the placings. It is a lot of work if you hadn't noticed.

Women-did it work with the staggered start? Any concerns? It was nice to see such a big field of ladies. I think this is the best way to handle it so it's easier to do placings.

Note-numbers go on your left side. A lot of you had the number upside down on your back. I think we set a record for the amount of bad number placements. And why do you like the numbers so flappy? Making a fashion statement? : )

David Hart
Official