Brian Engelen

Maybe this logic works: A Pro is not an amateur.

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/ach/sample_amateurism_questions/Sample_Amate
urism_Questionnaire.doc

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Mark J. Ginsberg
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:33 AM
To: lynne Cuevas; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] what defines a pro racer?

sorry to be the guy who reads the rules, but anyone with a cat 2 or above
can purchase a "pro" license.

so simply questions: does the person have a pro license or not?

the answer may bring you your answer. Or not.

Ginsberg

lynne Cuevas wrote:

Hi,
I am currently in a debate with someone that thinks that to be a pro racer
you must make your living doing so. Is that the way it is?

And, they also say that Lance Armstrong is no longer a pro racer because he
doesn't race.

I still consider Lance a pro even if he isn't currently racing on the tour.
Am I all washed up?

Thanks
Lynne
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

veloboy366@netzero.net

"I thought anyone with white handlebar tape was PRO. Clearly, I need to do more research."
Erik Voldengen

Yes!!! I finally made it! I did it with out any extra training, fixing my diet, or losing weight.

____________________________________________________________
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Erik

Pro is short for Professional, people. I am a Professional bike mechanic. I provide my services, knowledge, and abilities to bike shops in exchange for a means to a living.

Thus, a Professional Cyclist is one who provides his services, knowledge and abilities to a team, a sponsor, or other organization in exchange for a means to a living. It means cycling is their job.

The term "Pro" is one of the most frequently misused terms in sport in that we often call someone "Pro" just for being pretty good at the sport at hand. For instance, OBRA licenses many mountain bikers under the designation of "Pro", but barely a handful of these riders actually receive paychecks.

Buying a License doesn't get you paid. There are much fewer actual professional cyclists in North America than there seem to be.

Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:33:05 -0700
From: markjginsberg@yahoo.com
To: toyotapu996@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] what defines a pro racer?

sorry to be the guy who reads the rules, but anyone with a cat 2 or above can purchase a "pro" license. so simply questions: does the person have a pro license or not? the answer may bring you your answer. Or not. Ginsberg

lynne Cuevas wrote: Hi,
I am currently in a debate with someone that thinks that to be a pro racer you must make your living doing so. Is that the way it is?

And, they also say that Lance Armstrong is no longer a pro racer because he doesn't race.

I still consider Lance a pro even if he isn't currently racing on the tour. Am I all washed up?

Thanks
Lynne
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe:
obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

_________________________________________________________________
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Kristin

hm, I thought it was white bibs.

2008/6/26 Erik Voldengen :

> I thought anyone with white handlebar tape was PRO. Clearly, I need to do
> more research.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--

www.runbikeswim.net

Erik Voldengen

I thought anyone with white handlebar tape was PRO. Clearly, I need to do
more research.

Mark J. Ginsberg

sorry to be the guy who reads the rules, but anyone with a cat 2 or above can purchase a "pro" license.
so simply questions: does the person have a pro license or not?
the answer may bring you your answer. Or not.

Ginsberg

lynne Cuevas wrote:
Hi,
I am currently in a debate with someone that thinks that to be a pro racer you must make your living doing so. Is that the way it is?

And, they also say that Lance Armstrong is no longer a pro racer because he doesn't race.

I still consider Lance a pro even if he isn't currently racing on the tour. Am I all washed up?

Thanks
Lynne
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Mark J. Ginsberg
Attorney At Law
1216 SE Belmont St.
Portland, OR 97214
(503) 542-3000
Fax (503) 233-6874
markjginsberg@yahoo.com
www.bikesafetylaw.com

Long, Steve

Here's a tiny url for the pic:
http://tinyurl.com/5duzdd

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Long, Steve
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:21 AM
To: gpcrane@yahoo.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] what defines a pro racer?

He doesn't look too fat here, and Kate seems to be digging him:
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b143985_lance_kates_romantic_getaway.htm
l

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Greg Crane
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] what defines a pro racer?

Lynne,

You are not all washed up, Lance is. Have you seen how fat he is now
that he is retired. I could drop that dough boy in the hills. I would
this Sunday if I did not have to work, since I am not a rich pro or rich
retired pro.

Greg
The sarcasm in this e-mail is made with 85% recycled material and the
bitterness is derived from a 100% Fair Trade, Shade Grown joyless
childhood.
This e-mail is dedicated to Fiona Graham, my alter ego in the body of a
teenage girl.

--- On Thu, 6/26/08, lynne Cuevas wrote:

> From: lynne Cuevas
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] what defines a pro racer?
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 9:28 AM Hi,
> I am currently in a debate with someone that thinks that to be a pro

> racer you must make your living doing so. Is that the way it is?
>
> And, they also say that Lance Armstrong is no longer a pro racer
> because he doesn't race.
>
> I still consider Lance a pro even if he isn't currently racing on
> the tour. Am I all washed up?
>
> Thanks
> Lynne
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Long, Steve

He doesn't look too fat here, and Kate seems to be digging him:
http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/b143985_lance_kates_romantic_getaway.htm
l

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Greg Crane
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 10:16 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] what defines a pro racer?

Lynne,

You are not all washed up, Lance is. Have you seen how fat he is now
that he is retired. I could drop that dough boy in the hills. I would
this Sunday if I did not have to work, since I am not a rich pro or rich
retired pro.

Greg
The sarcasm in this e-mail is made with 85% recycled material and the
bitterness is derived from a 100% Fair Trade, Shade Grown joyless
childhood.
This e-mail is dedicated to Fiona Graham, my alter ego in the body of a
teenage girl.

--- On Thu, 6/26/08, lynne Cuevas wrote:

> From: lynne Cuevas
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] what defines a pro racer?
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 9:28 AM
> Hi,
> I am currently in a debate with someone that thinks that
> to be a pro racer you must make your living doing so. Is
> that the way it is?
>
> And, they also say that Lance Armstrong is no longer a pro
> racer because he doesn't race.
>
> I still consider Lance a pro even if he isn't
> currently racing on the tour. Am I all washed up?
>
> Thanks
> Lynne
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Greg Crane

Lynne,

You are not all washed up, Lance is. Have you seen how fat he is now that he is retired. I could drop that dough boy in the hills. I would this Sunday if I did not have to work, since I am not a rich pro or rich retired pro.

Greg
The sarcasm in this e-mail is made with 85% recycled
material and the bitterness is derived from a 100%
Fair Trade, Shade Grown joyless childhood.
This e-mail is dedicated to Fiona Graham, my alter ego in the body of a teenage girl.

--- On Thu, 6/26/08, lynne Cuevas wrote:

> From: lynne Cuevas
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] what defines a pro racer?
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thursday, June 26, 2008, 9:28 AM
> Hi,
> I am currently in a debate with someone that thinks that
> to be a pro racer you must make your living doing so. Is
> that the way it is?
>
> And, they also say that Lance Armstrong is no longer a pro
> racer because he doesn't race.
>
> I still consider Lance a pro even if he isn't
> currently racing on the tour. Am I all washed up?
>
> Thanks
> Lynne
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Dan H

There are plenty of riders on pro teams that do not "make a living" at it.
I know a guy that delivered pizza at night part time to make ends meet.
Some of the riders who did not have rich parents on a pro team I worked with
had flexible "day" jobs with understanding bosses.
They did the NRC circuit and raced with more highly paid "pros".
I'd say if one is on a pro team they are a pro even if the only compensation
they get is a bike they can sell later.

----- Original Message -----
From: "lynne Cuevas"
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2008 9:28 AM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] what defines a pro racer?

> Hi,
> I am currently in a debate with someone that thinks that to be a pro
> racer you must make your living doing so. Is that the way it is?
>
> And, they also say that Lance Armstrong is no longer a pro racer because
> he doesn't race.
>
> I still consider Lance a pro even if he isn't currently racing on the
> tour. Am I all washed up?
>
> Thanks
> Lynne
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

lynne Cuevas

Hi,
I am currently in a debate with someone that thinks that to be a pro racer you must make your living doing so. Is that the way it is?

And, they also say that Lance Armstrong is no longer a pro racer because he doesn't race.

I still consider Lance a pro even if he isn't currently racing on the tour. Am I all washed up?

Thanks
Lynne