Patrick wilder
I'll answer this. I have had 2 "catastrophic" flats with the tubeless.
I'll preface by saying in both instances the puncture would have damaged ANY tyre.
1. HW 30 (could there be a worse enviroment to test?) I put a large 2 inch staple through the sidewall. It broke the bead and actually blew the tyre off the rim. Very sketchy to say the least on HW 30.
2. Last week going down Lolo Pass gravel section, another puncture which tore the sidewall. Probably a large sharp rock. This time the tyre stayed on the rim.
My theory would be that puncutureing and breaking the bead is rare. In that case it tyre did not stay on the rim. In the other case it did, so perhaps a bit less "unpredictable" than normal?
~Patrick
www.pwildertherapy.com
--- On Wed, 7/9/08, David Auker wrote:
From: David Auker
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless clinchers - fad or
To: "hrdtduck"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Wednesday, July 9, 2008, 7:56 AM
How do they fit the rim? Easy on/off? How about a catastrophic flat...big puncture/blow-out...are they characteristic of clinchers, unpredictable about staying on the rim? If so, the sew-up is probably safer in Grand Tour type racing. Just a thought.
David
hrdtduck wrote:
What you say is true the weigh difference is minor at best
but two large differences
.cost of the tire itself, and ease of use, make for a pretty strong argument for tubeless
.to fix a flat out on the road all I have to carry is a tube, & a dollar (for those big holes)
.what can you do when a sew-up flats on the road?...do you carry a spare tire when you ride?..... not to mention the issue of trying to put a replacement tire on over a previously glued rim
when it all boils down to it
.sew-ups probably ride better overall, but I think the new technology will replace the old in time
.I have been told/& read that some teams are already using tubeless on this years Tour
..It is only a matter of time
Have you tried them?? I was so amazed I bought 2 wheel sets (perhaps excessive, but I am kinda like that about bicycling)
..
Howard
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Harry Phinney
Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 1:01 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless clinchers - fad or
On ride comfort, are the tubeless really more comfortable than e.g. 25 mm Vittoria Evo Open CX tires or 25 mm Michelin Carbons at 90 PSI? On weight, the tubeless tires save little. Excel lists the Hutchinson tubeless tires at 290 g. To that you need to add the weight of the valve. An old bolt-on presta from a tube I have weighs 7 g, so call the tubeless a total of 297 g. The 25 mm Vittoria weighs 242 g, and a latex tube I had lying around weighs 60 g for a total of 302 g. The tubeless saves 5 grams in this example, with no sealant. Perhaps I should add the weight of a rim strip for the tube case. A Rox strip such as I use in my racing wheels weighs around 3 g, making the tubeless weight advantage 8 g. I honestly cant remember the last time that I pinch flatted a 25 mm tire, but I do ride them at 100-110 PSI, not 90 PSI. While I am obviously skeptical of the performance claims for them, Im really not opposed to the idea of tubeless tires. I much
prefer them on my motorcycles; theyre harder to repair for flats, but easier to change and I replace worn tires more than I repair flats on the motos.
Harry Phinney
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of hrdtduck
Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 1:56 PM
To: 'Erik'; 'Doug Sears'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Tubeless clinchers - fad or
I have to agree over the thought that when you spend a lot of money on something you tend to ignore what may not meet your expectations
.However if there were nothing else to evaluate
..the ride comfort alone sells me on the tubeless clincher tire
.From what I understand about the specific Shimano/Hutchinson technology, lower air pressure is designed in and not necessarily the root/only cause for smoother ride experience
even at the lower air pressure rolling resistance is claimed to be lower (I do not have any way to test that so I have to depend on what Shimano & Hutchinson have to say, after all, why would they lie?? Hey Look I know what you are going to say
)
All I really know is what my butt, hands and average ride speeds tell me
they all have improved
..Bonus?? No more pinch flats!!.....if I do get a flat I can put a tube in as easily as a regular clincher, and be on my way. I save a small about of weight (no tube), while the tires
arent cheap they cost no more than any high end clincher and less that tubular
..and I get a great ride, they also seem to conform to the road better when in a high speed corner
..Like disc brakes on Mountain bikes
I dont think I will be going back to the older technology
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