Koin cyclist Poll

Monty Hill

2008-07-11

I like the roundabout in the middle of Ladd's addition with the stop signs at every street. That make no sense whatsoever. Even if I got 5 tickets there I will never come to a complete stop.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:38 AM
To: Martin Baker
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

Not to mention their frequent use of roundabouts...

Rick

Martin Baker wrote:

> I think this conversation also highlights that fact that stop signs
> are heavily overused and misused. In the UK, 90% of the situations
> where you would find a stop sign in the States, they employ a yield
> sign. And 4-way stops are almost unheard of - someone always has the
> right of way. In most cases, it's plain ridiculous to have a vehicle
> come to a complete stop when the sight-lines are good - it
> unnecessarily impedes the flow of traffic and people end up rolling
> through anyway because they realize they are usually stupid. Stop
> signs have become an inappropriate alternative to speed enforcement in
> neighborhoods.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Chris Alling
> *Sent:* Friday, July 11, 2008 9:27 AM
> *To:* hrdtduck; 'KO Kevin'; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>
> I to California stop (slow down to a pace that I can safely observe
> the intersection) most signs and a few blinking lights. I have
> actually had car drivers yell at me because I did such a "stop" and
> then they turn around and do the exact same thing at the next stop. I
> have caught some of these drivers and had discussions with them about
> their hypocrisy at which point most of them lie and tell me that they
> did stop but you know after being yelled at I am hyper observant.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> From: hrdtduck@clearwire.net
>> To: kko@ci.springfield.or.us; obra@list.obra.org
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:51:27 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> Hey I'm pretty much the same traffic do-gooder, and I admit I slow roll a
>> stop sign when no other traffic is around....just like 99.9% of the
> vehicles
>> do...I think it is called a "California stop"....I just really wonder
> what
>> we can do about all the "Freds" out there (sorry, not to impugn the name
>> Frederick)...I do not see any way to educate or to enforce traffic rule
>> compliance...from anyone...Only thing I can do is obey the best I can
> based
>> on what decision I make at the moment..... to how much or little of
> whatever
>> traffic law I obey.
>>
>> We all disobey from time to time traffic law whether on the bike or
> in the
>> car to some degree...that is a universal given in my opinion....but
> the high
>> profile stuff like stops and riding the wrong way on the road....we all
>> should make a effort to comply with, no matter how inconvenient it is.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of KO Kevin
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:21 AM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> Ok, I've gotten some flack for my admission of rolling through stop
>> signs. So to clarify, I DON'T blow through stop signs, I treat them more
>> as yield signs, and go when it's clear, and when it is my turn. Yeah,
>> know that it still violates the letter of the law, but I suggest that
>> ANY cyclist that claims he/she comes to a full stop at EVERY stop sign
>> is in denial. Heck, even the Trek commercial that is running with the
>> TDF on Vs shows a commuter rolling through a controlled intersection,
>> while the car on the side of him is stopping.
>>
>> I always obey a red light. I always signal my turns and lane changes
>> when there are cars or pedestrians around. I never pass on the right
>> unless there is a designated bike lane, I don't squeeze between lanes in
>> traffic. I always have a light when it is dark, I always wear a helmet,
>> I never kick my dog, I eat all of my veggies, I never run with scissors,
>> I always put the seat down....
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of hrdtduck
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:25 AM
>> To: joec@aracnet.com; 'Jamie Mikami'
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> I'd have to agree D to a F....It really irks me that I see sooooo many
>> cyclist just flout the rules of the road...especially traffic lights and
>> stop signs....you'd think we, (and I say we because we all have some
>> responsibility to bear here) would recognize the damage we do to our
>> image
>> and to our demand to safe & respectful treatment from all other road
>> users.
>> (I.E. the Automorons)....
>> Down here in the Soviet Socialists Republic of Eugene...the biggest
>> problem
>> is the "non-cyclist"...cyclist.....you all know who I am talking
>> about...riding on the sidewalk, off the sidewalk, wrong side of the
>> road,
>> disobeying all traffic rules, clunker bikes, pulling garbage trailers
>> full
>> of cans & trash, there seems to be a disproportionate number of these
>> "cyclists" and they are all too visible on the most commonly used roads
>> in
>> town.
>> Yesterday within 5 minutes on 2 different residential street 4 way stop
>> intersections, I could have legally run over cyclists who just blew off
>> the
>> stop sign....one after I had stopped and was entering the
>> intersection!...She looked right at me and rode into the intersection,
>> no
>> attempt to stop at all. Unbelievable....What the heck can we do as
>> responsible (as responsible as possible) cyclists??
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of joe cipale
>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:38 PM
>> To: Jamie Mikami
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:
>> > http://www.koin.com/
>> >
>> > How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
>> > the road?
>> >
>> > Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not
>> > pretty, currently at 71% D or F.
>>
>> Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as
>> cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or
>> recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules
>> of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are
>> better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances
>> where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live
> Messenger. Get started.
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Rick C Johnson

2008-07-11

Not to mention their frequent use of roundabouts...

Rick

Martin Baker wrote:

> I think this conversation also highlights that fact that stop signs
> are heavily overused and misused. In the UK, 90% of the situations
> where you would find a stop sign in the States, they employ a yield
> sign. And 4-way stops are almost unheard of – someone always has the
> right of way. In most cases, it’s plain ridiculous to have a vehicle
> come to a complete stop when the sight-lines are good – it
> unnecessarily impedes the flow of traffic and people end up rolling
> through anyway because they realize they are usually stupid. Stop
> signs have become an inappropriate alternative to speed enforcement in
> neighborhoods.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Chris Alling
> *Sent:* Friday, July 11, 2008 9:27 AM
> *To:* hrdtduck; 'KO Kevin'; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>
> I to California stop (slow down to a pace that I can safely observe
> the intersection) most signs and a few blinking lights. I have
> actually had car drivers yell at me because I did such a "stop" and
> then they turn around and do the exact same thing at the next stop. I
> have caught some of these drivers and had discussions with them about
> their hypocrisy at which point most of them lie and tell me that they
> did stop but you know after being yelled at I am hyper observant.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> From: hrdtduck@clearwire.net
>> To: kko@ci.springfield.or.us; obra@list.obra.org
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:51:27 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> Hey I'm pretty much the same traffic do-gooder, and I admit I slow roll a
>> stop sign when no other traffic is around....just like 99.9% of the
> vehicles
>> do...I think it is called a "California stop"....I just really wonder
> what
>> we can do about all the "Freds" out there (sorry, not to impugn the name
>> Frederick)...I do not see any way to educate or to enforce traffic rule
>> compliance...from anyone...Only thing I can do is obey the best I can
> based
>> on what decision I make at the moment..... to how much or little of
> whatever
>> traffic law I obey.
>>
>> We all disobey from time to time traffic law whether on the bike or
> in the
>> car to some degree...that is a universal given in my opinion....but
> the high
>> profile stuff like stops and riding the wrong way on the road....we all
>> should make a effort to comply with, no matter how inconvenient it is.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of KO Kevin
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:21 AM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> Ok, I've gotten some flack for my admission of rolling through stop
>> signs. So to clarify, I DON'T blow through stop signs, I treat them more
>> as yield signs, and go when it's clear, and when it is my turn. Yeah,
>> know that it still violates the letter of the law, but I suggest that
>> ANY cyclist that claims he/she comes to a full stop at EVERY stop sign
>> is in denial. Heck, even the Trek commercial that is running with the
>> TDF on Vs shows a commuter rolling through a controlled intersection,
>> while the car on the side of him is stopping.
>>
>> I always obey a red light. I always signal my turns and lane changes
>> when there are cars or pedestrians around. I never pass on the right
>> unless there is a designated bike lane, I don't squeeze between lanes in
>> traffic. I always have a light when it is dark, I always wear a helmet,
>> I never kick my dog, I eat all of my veggies, I never run with scissors,
>> I always put the seat down....
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of hrdtduck
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:25 AM
>> To: joec@aracnet.com; 'Jamie Mikami'
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> I'd have to agree D to a F....It really irks me that I see sooooo many
>> cyclist just flout the rules of the road...especially traffic lights and
>> stop signs....you'd think we, (and I say we because we all have some
>> responsibility to bear here) would recognize the damage we do to our
>> image
>> and to our demand to safe & respectful treatment from all other road
>> users.
>> (I.E. the Automorons)....
>> Down here in the Soviet Socialists Republic of Eugene...the biggest
>> problem
>> is the "non-cyclist"...cyclist.....you all know who I am talking
>> about...riding on the sidewalk, off the sidewalk, wrong side of the
>> road,
>> disobeying all traffic rules, clunker bikes, pulling garbage trailers
>> full
>> of cans & trash, there seems to be a disproportionate number of these
>> "cyclists" and they are all too visible on the most commonly used roads
>> in
>> town.
>> Yesterday within 5 minutes on 2 different residential street 4 way stop
>> intersections, I could have legally run over cyclists who just blew off
>> the
>> stop sign....one after I had stopped and was entering the
>> intersection!...She looked right at me and rode into the intersection,
>> no
>> attempt to stop at all. Unbelievable....What the heck can we do as
>> responsible (as responsible as possible) cyclists??
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of joe cipale
>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:38 PM
>> To: Jamie Mikami
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:
>> > http://www.koin.com/
>> >
>> > How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
>> > the road?
>> >
>> > Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not
>> > pretty, currently at 71% D or F.
>>
>> Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as
>> cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or
>> recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules
>> of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are
>> better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances
>> where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live
> Messenger. Get started.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Martin Baker

2008-07-11

I think this conversation also highlights that fact that stop signs are
heavily overused and misused. In the UK, 90% of the situations where you
would find a stop sign in the States, they employ a yield sign. And 4-way
stops are almost unheard of - someone always has the right of way. In most
cases, it's plain ridiculous to have a vehicle come to a complete stop when
the sight-lines are good - it unnecessarily impedes the flow of traffic and
people end up rolling through anyway because they realize they are usually
stupid. Stop signs have become an inappropriate alternative to speed
enforcement in neighborhoods.

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Alling
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 9:27 AM
To: hrdtduck; 'KO Kevin'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

I to California stop (slow down to a pace that I can safely observe the
intersection) most signs and a few blinking lights. I have actually had car
drivers yell at me because I did such a "stop" and then they turn around and
do the exact same thing at the next stop. I have caught some of these
drivers and had discussions with them about their hypocrisy at which point
most of them lie and tell me that they did stop but you know after being
yelled at I am hyper observant.

Chris

_____

> From: hrdtduck@clearwire.net
> To: kko@ci.springfield.or.us; obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:51:27 -0700
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>
> Hey I'm pretty much the same traffic do-gooder, and I admit I slow roll a
> stop sign when no other traffic is around....just like 99.9% of the
vehicles
> do...I think it is called a "California stop"....I just really wonder what
> we can do about all the "Freds" out there (sorry, not to impugn the name
> Frederick)...I do not see any way to educate or to enforce traffic rule
> compliance...from anyone...Only thing I can do is obey the best I can
based
> on what decision I make at the moment..... to how much or little of
whatever
> traffic law I obey.
>
> We all disobey from time to time traffic law whether on the bike or in the
> car to some degree...that is a universal given in my opinion....but the
high
> profile stuff like stops and riding the wrong way on the road....we all
> should make a effort to comply with, no matter how inconvenient it is.
>
> Howard
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of KO Kevin
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:21 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>
> Ok, I've gotten some flack for my admission of rolling through stop
> signs. So to clarify, I DON'T blow through stop signs, I treat them more
> as yield signs, and go when it's clear, and when it is my turn. Yeah,
> know that it still violates the letter of the law, but I suggest that
> ANY cyclist that claims he/she comes to a full stop at EVERY stop sign
> is in denial. Heck, even the Trek commercial that is running with the
> TDF on Vs shows a commuter rolling through a controlled intersection,
> while the car on the side of him is stopping.
>
> I always obey a red light. I always signal my turns and lane changes
> when there are cars or pedestrians around. I never pass on the right
> unless there is a designated bike lane, I don't squeeze between lanes in
> traffic. I always have a light when it is dark, I always wear a helmet,
> I never kick my dog, I eat all of my veggies, I never run with scissors,
> I always put the seat down....
>
> Kevin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of hrdtduck
> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:25 AM
> To: joec@aracnet.com; 'Jamie Mikami'
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>
> I'd have to agree D to a F....It really irks me that I see sooooo many
> cyclist just flout the rules of the road...especially traffic lights and
> stop signs....you'd think we, (and I say we because we all have some
> responsibility to bear here) would recognize the damage we do to our
> image
> and to our demand to safe & respectful treatment from all other road
> users.
> (I.E. the Automorons)....
> Down here in the Soviet Socialists Republic of Eugene...the biggest
> problem
> is the "non-cyclist"...cyclist.....you all know who I am talking
> about...riding on the sidewalk, off the sidewalk, wrong side of the
> road,
> disobeying all traffic rules, clunker bikes, pulling garbage trailers
> full
> of cans & trash, there seems to be a disproportionate number of these
> "cyclists" and they are all too visible on the most commonly used roads
> in
> town.
> Yesterday within 5 minutes on 2 different residential street 4 way stop
> intersections, I could have legally run over cyclists who just blew off
> the
> stop sign....one after I had stopped and was entering the
> intersection!...She looked right at me and rode into the intersection,
> no
> attempt to stop at all. Unbelievable....What the heck can we do as
> responsible (as responsible as possible) cyclists??
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of joe cipale
> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:38 PM
> To: Jamie Mikami
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>
> On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:
> > http://www.koin.com/
> >
> > How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
> > the road?
> >
> > Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not
> > pretty, currently at 71% D or F.
>
> Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as
> cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or
> recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules
> of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are
> better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances
> where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.
>
> Joe
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_____

Use video conversation to talk face-to-face with Windows Live Messenger. Get
started.


Chris Alling

2008-07-11

I to California stop (slow down to a pace that I can safely observe the intersection) most signs and a few blinking lights. I have actually had car drivers yell at me because I did such a "stop" and then they turn around and do the exact same thing at the next stop. I have caught some of these drivers and had discussions with them about their hypocrisy at which point most of them lie and tell me that they did stop but you know after being yelled at I am hyper observant.

Chris

> From: hrdtduck@clearwire.net> To: kko@ci.springfield.or.us; obra@list.obra.org> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:51:27 -0700> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll> > Hey I'm pretty much the same traffic do-gooder, and I admit I slow roll a> stop sign when no other traffic is around....just like 99.9% of the vehicles> do...I think it is called a "California stop"....I just really wonder what> we can do about all the "Freds" out there (sorry, not to impugn the name> Frederick)...I do not see any way to educate or to enforce traffic rule> compliance...from anyone...Only thing I can do is obey the best I can based> on what decision I make at the moment..... to how much or little of whatever> traffic law I obey.> > We all disobey from time to time traffic law whether on the bike or in the> car to some degree...that is a universal given in my opinion....but the high> profile stuff like stops and riding the wrong way on the road....we all> should make a effort to comply with, no matter how inconvenient it is.> > Howard > > -----Original Message-----> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On> Behalf Of KO Kevin> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:21 AM> To: obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll> > Ok, I've gotten some flack for my admission of rolling through stop> signs. So to clarify, I DON'T blow through stop signs, I treat them more> as yield signs, and go when it's clear, and when it is my turn. Yeah,> know that it still violates the letter of the law, but I suggest that> ANY cyclist that claims he/she comes to a full stop at EVERY stop sign> is in denial. Heck, even the Trek commercial that is running with the> TDF on Vs shows a commuter rolling through a controlled intersection,> while the car on the side of him is stopping.> > I always obey a red light. I always signal my turns and lane changes> when there are cars or pedestrians around. I never pass on the right> unless there is a designated bike lane, I don't squeeze between lanes in> traffic. I always have a light when it is dark, I always wear a helmet,> I never kick my dog, I eat all of my veggies, I never run with scissors,> I always put the seat down.... > > Kevin > > -----Original Message-----> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On> Behalf Of hrdtduck> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:25 AM> To: joec@aracnet.com; 'Jamie Mikami'> Cc: obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll> > I'd have to agree D to a F....It really irks me that I see sooooo many> cyclist just flout the rules of the road...especially traffic lights and> stop signs....you'd think we, (and I say we because we all have some> responsibility to bear here) would recognize the damage we do to our> image> and to our demand to safe & respectful treatment from all other road> users.> (I.E. the Automorons)....> Down here in the Soviet Socialists Republic of Eugene...the biggest> problem> is the "non-cyclist"...cyclist.....you all know who I am talking> about...riding on the sidewalk, off the sidewalk, wrong side of the> road,> disobeying all traffic rules, clunker bikes, pulling garbage trailers> full> of cans & trash, there seems to be a disproportionate number of these> "cyclists" and they are all too visible on the most commonly used roads> in> town. > Yesterday within 5 minutes on 2 different residential street 4 way stop> intersections, I could have legally run over cyclists who just blew off> the> stop sign....one after I had stopped and was entering the> intersection!...She looked right at me and rode into the intersection,> no> attempt to stop at all. Unbelievable....What the heck can we do as> responsible (as responsible as possible) cyclists??> > -----Original Message-----> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On> Behalf Of joe cipale> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:38 PM> To: Jamie Mikami> Cc: obra@list.obra.org> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll> > On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:> > http://www.koin.com/> > > > How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of> > the road?> > > > Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not> > pretty, currently at 71% D or F.> > Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as> cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or> recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules> of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are> better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances> where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.> > Joe> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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hrdtduck

2008-07-11

Hey I'm pretty much the same traffic do-gooder, and I admit I slow roll a
stop sign when no other traffic is around....just like 99.9% of the vehicles
do...I think it is called a "California stop"....I just really wonder what
we can do about all the "Freds" out there (sorry, not to impugn the name
Frederick)...I do not see any way to educate or to enforce traffic rule
compliance...from anyone...Only thing I can do is obey the best I can based
on what decision I make at the moment..... to how much or little of whatever
traffic law I obey.

We all disobey from time to time traffic law whether on the bike or in the
car to some degree...that is a universal given in my opinion....but the high
profile stuff like stops and riding the wrong way on the road....we all
should make a effort to comply with, no matter how inconvenient it is.

Howard

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of KO Kevin
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:21 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

Ok, I've gotten some flack for my admission of rolling through stop
signs. So to clarify, I DON'T blow through stop signs, I treat them more
as yield signs, and go when it's clear, and when it is my turn. Yeah,
know that it still violates the letter of the law, but I suggest that
ANY cyclist that claims he/she comes to a full stop at EVERY stop sign
is in denial. Heck, even the Trek commercial that is running with the
TDF on Vs shows a commuter rolling through a controlled intersection,
while the car on the side of him is stopping.

I always obey a red light. I always signal my turns and lane changes
when there are cars or pedestrians around. I never pass on the right
unless there is a designated bike lane, I don't squeeze between lanes in
traffic. I always have a light when it is dark, I always wear a helmet,
I never kick my dog, I eat all of my veggies, I never run with scissors,
I always put the seat down....

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of hrdtduck
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:25 AM
To: joec@aracnet.com; 'Jamie Mikami'
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

I'd have to agree D to a F....It really irks me that I see sooooo many
cyclist just flout the rules of the road...especially traffic lights and
stop signs....you'd think we, (and I say we because we all have some
responsibility to bear here) would recognize the damage we do to our
image
and to our demand to safe & respectful treatment from all other road
users.
(I.E. the Automorons)....
Down here in the Soviet Socialists Republic of Eugene...the biggest
problem
is the "non-cyclist"...cyclist.....you all know who I am talking
about...riding on the sidewalk, off the sidewalk, wrong side of the
road,
disobeying all traffic rules, clunker bikes, pulling garbage trailers
full
of cans & trash, there seems to be a disproportionate number of these
"cyclists" and they are all too visible on the most commonly used roads
in
town.
Yesterday within 5 minutes on 2 different residential street 4 way stop
intersections, I could have legally run over cyclists who just blew off
the
stop sign....one after I had stopped and was entering the
intersection!...She looked right at me and rode into the intersection,
no
attempt to stop at all. Unbelievable....What the heck can we do as
responsible (as responsible as possible) cyclists??

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of joe cipale
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:38 PM
To: Jamie Mikami
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:
> http://www.koin.com/
>
> How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
> the road?
>
> Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not
> pretty, currently at 71% D or F.

Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as
cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or
recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules
of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are
better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances
where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.

Joe

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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KO Kevin

2008-07-11

Ok, I've gotten some flack for my admission of rolling through stop
signs. So to clarify, I DON'T blow through stop signs, I treat them more
as yield signs, and go when it's clear, and when it is my turn. Yeah,
know that it still violates the letter of the law, but I suggest that
ANY cyclist that claims he/she comes to a full stop at EVERY stop sign
is in denial. Heck, even the Trek commercial that is running with the
TDF on Vs shows a commuter rolling through a controlled intersection,
while the car on the side of him is stopping.

I always obey a red light. I always signal my turns and lane changes
when there are cars or pedestrians around. I never pass on the right
unless there is a designated bike lane, I don't squeeze between lanes in
traffic. I always have a light when it is dark, I always wear a helmet,
I never kick my dog, I eat all of my veggies, I never run with scissors,
I always put the seat down....

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of hrdtduck
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:25 AM
To: joec@aracnet.com; 'Jamie Mikami'
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

I'd have to agree D to a F....It really irks me that I see sooooo many
cyclist just flout the rules of the road...especially traffic lights and
stop signs....you'd think we, (and I say we because we all have some
responsibility to bear here) would recognize the damage we do to our
image
and to our demand to safe & respectful treatment from all other road
users.
(I.E. the Automorons)....
Down here in the Soviet Socialists Republic of Eugene...the biggest
problem
is the "non-cyclist"...cyclist.....you all know who I am talking
about...riding on the sidewalk, off the sidewalk, wrong side of the
road,
disobeying all traffic rules, clunker bikes, pulling garbage trailers
full
of cans & trash, there seems to be a disproportionate number of these
"cyclists" and they are all too visible on the most commonly used roads
in
town.
Yesterday within 5 minutes on 2 different residential street 4 way stop
intersections, I could have legally run over cyclists who just blew off
the
stop sign....one after I had stopped and was entering the
intersection!...She looked right at me and rode into the intersection,
no
attempt to stop at all. Unbelievable....What the heck can we do as
responsible (as responsible as possible) cyclists??

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of joe cipale
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:38 PM
To: Jamie Mikami
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:
> http://www.koin.com/
>
> How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
> the road?
>
> Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not
> pretty, currently at 71% D or F.

Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as
cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or
recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules
of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are
better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances
where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.

Joe

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


hrdtduck

2008-07-11

I'd have to agree D to a F....It really irks me that I see sooooo many
cyclist just flout the rules of the road...especially traffic lights and
stop signs....you'd think we, (and I say we because we all have some
responsibility to bear here) would recognize the damage we do to our image
and to our demand to safe & respectful treatment from all other road users.
(I.E. the Automorons)....
Down here in the Soviet Socialists Republic of Eugene...the biggest problem
is the "non-cyclist"...cyclist.....you all know who I am talking
about...riding on the sidewalk, off the sidewalk, wrong side of the road,
disobeying all traffic rules, clunker bikes, pulling garbage trailers full
of cans & trash, there seems to be a disproportionate number of these
"cyclists" and they are all too visible on the most commonly used roads in
town.
Yesterday within 5 minutes on 2 different residential street 4 way stop
intersections, I could have legally run over cyclists who just blew off the
stop sign....one after I had stopped and was entering the
intersection!...She looked right at me and rode into the intersection, no
attempt to stop at all. Unbelievable....What the heck can we do as
responsible (as responsible as possible) cyclists??

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of joe cipale
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:38 PM
To: Jamie Mikami
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:
> http://www.koin.com/
>
> How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
> the road?
>
> Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not
> pretty, currently at 71% D or F.

Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as
cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or
recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules
of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are
better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances
where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.

Joe

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


George de Randich

2008-07-11

I might say the same way a cop would a motorcyclist! Just because we are on one, two or in my case three wheels; we are all subject to the same rules of he road!; people don't understand that when I come to a stop for a stop sign, I must yield right of way for cross traffic!! It's not that I should, I must according to my understanding of Washington Traffic Laws! And I assume that the same is true in Oregon!
Respectfully yours,
George de Randich

----- Original Message -----
From: Jamie Mikami
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

http://www.koin.com/

How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of the road?

Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not pretty, currently at 71% D or F.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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joe cipale

2008-07-10

On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:
> http://www.koin.com/
>
> How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
> the road?
>
> Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not
> pretty, currently at 71% D or F.

Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as
cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or
recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules
of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are
better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances
where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.

Joe


MICHAEL HILBRANDT

2008-07-10

"When one takes into account "cyclists" as anyone on a bike, I think the poll results are incorrect. I would say at least 80% percent of "people on bikes" are scoff laws."

Just like 80% of people driving cars are not really drivers.

It would seem, based on comments posted here and on BikePortland, that we need an official definition of cyclist. One might assume that riding as a means of transportation or recreation might qualify you as a cyclist. That leaves me to wonder who is left? Who are these people, and what are they not doing? Am I a cyclist?

As a commuter, the "type" I see most often disregarding laws are the 35-45 y.o. men (also commuting to work), or the younger hipsters, in which case females are included. I thought they were all cyclists hough.

Mike

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Dan H

2008-07-10

When one takes into account "cyclists" as anyone on a bike, I think the poll results are incorrect. I would say at least 80% percent of "people on bikes" are scoff laws.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jamie Mikami
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 2:56 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

http://www.koin.com/

How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of the road?

Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not pretty, currently at 71% D or F.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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obra@list.obra.org
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KO Kevin

2008-07-10

I bike commute 11.5 mile each way to work. Curiously, I am far more apt
to cross on foot against a red light than I am to run a red light on a
bike. I honestly can't think of any occasion where purposely ran a red
light on a bike. Stop signs, however, are a different matter. When it
is a four way stop, I take my turn as if in a car, but otherwise I will
proceed without stopping if the coast is clear. Except for that
transgression, I would guess that I break far fewer laws on my bike than
driving in my car (speeding, tailgating, not signaling lane changes...).
Which is probably why I get shown the finger more often in my car than
on my bike....

Kevin

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Scott Jones
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 3:08 PM
To: Jamie Mikami; OBRA List
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll

Jaime,

Thanks for the note about this. I saw it a little bit earlier and was
not surprised to be honest. I voted and gave us a grade of "C". Things
are not as good as some might think. I see way, way too many cyclists
not following the rules.

I would say that a lot of this response has to do with the incident
reported on in the Oregonian and on www.bikeportland.org today. The top
things I see cyclists due on my commute and and while at work in
downtown Portland are running red lights, failure to signal turns or
stopping, weaving in and out of traffic, and running stop signs.

I just wonder if people think before they act. Really, does it save you
that much time?

Scott

2008/7/10 Jamie Mikami :

http://www.koin.com/

How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
the road?

Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not pretty,
currently at 71% D or F.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Scott Jones

2008-07-10

Jaime,

Thanks for the note about this. I saw it a little bit earlier and was not
surprised to be honest. I voted and gave us a grade of "C". Things are not
as good as some might think. I see way, way too many cyclists not following
the rules.

I would say that a lot of this response has to do with the incident reported
on in the Oregonian and on www.bikeportland.org today. The top things I see
cyclists due on my commute and and while at work in downtown Portland are
running red lights, failure to signal turns or stopping, weaving in and out
of traffic, and running stop signs.

I just wonder if people think before they act. Really, does it save you that
much time?

Scott

2008/7/10 Jamie Mikami :

> http://www.koin.com/
>
> How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of the
> road?
>
> Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not pretty,
> currently at 71% D or F.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


tackyglueit

2008-07-10

judging by my bike commute id say that's probably not to far off.

2008/7/10 Jamie Mikami :

> http://www.koin.com/
>
> How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of the
> road?
>
> Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not pretty,
> currently at 71% D or F.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Jamie Mikami

2008-07-10

http://www.koin.com/

How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of the road?

Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not pretty, currently at 71% D or F.