Monty Hill
I like the roundabout in the middle of Ladd's addition with the stop signs at every street. That make no sense whatsoever. Even if I got 5 tickets there I will never come to a complete stop.
-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:38 AM
To: Martin Baker
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
Not to mention their frequent use of roundabouts...
Rick
Martin Baker wrote:
> I think this conversation also highlights that fact that stop signs
> are heavily overused and misused. In the UK, 90% of the situations
> where you would find a stop sign in the States, they employ a yield
> sign. And 4-way stops are almost unheard of - someone always has the
> right of way. In most cases, it's plain ridiculous to have a vehicle
> come to a complete stop when the sight-lines are good - it
> unnecessarily impedes the flow of traffic and people end up rolling
> through anyway because they realize they are usually stupid. Stop
> signs have become an inappropriate alternative to speed enforcement in
> neighborhoods.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Chris Alling
> *Sent:* Friday, July 11, 2008 9:27 AM
> *To:* hrdtduck; 'KO Kevin'; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>
> I to California stop (slow down to a pace that I can safely observe
> the intersection) most signs and a few blinking lights. I have
> actually had car drivers yell at me because I did such a "stop" and
> then they turn around and do the exact same thing at the next stop. I
> have caught some of these drivers and had discussions with them about
> their hypocrisy at which point most of them lie and tell me that they
> did stop but you know after being yelled at I am hyper observant.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> From: hrdtduck@clearwire.net
>> To: kko@ci.springfield.or.us; obra@list.obra.org
>> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 08:51:27 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> Hey I'm pretty much the same traffic do-gooder, and I admit I slow roll a
>> stop sign when no other traffic is around....just like 99.9% of the
> vehicles
>> do...I think it is called a "California stop"....I just really wonder
> what
>> we can do about all the "Freds" out there (sorry, not to impugn the name
>> Frederick)...I do not see any way to educate or to enforce traffic rule
>> compliance...from anyone...Only thing I can do is obey the best I can
> based
>> on what decision I make at the moment..... to how much or little of
> whatever
>> traffic law I obey.
>>
>> We all disobey from time to time traffic law whether on the bike or
> in the
>> car to some degree...that is a universal given in my opinion....but
> the high
>> profile stuff like stops and riding the wrong way on the road....we all
>> should make a effort to comply with, no matter how inconvenient it is.
>>
>> Howard
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of KO Kevin
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 8:21 AM
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> Ok, I've gotten some flack for my admission of rolling through stop
>> signs. So to clarify, I DON'T blow through stop signs, I treat them more
>> as yield signs, and go when it's clear, and when it is my turn. Yeah,
>> know that it still violates the letter of the law, but I suggest that
>> ANY cyclist that claims he/she comes to a full stop at EVERY stop sign
>> is in denial. Heck, even the Trek commercial that is running with the
>> TDF on Vs shows a commuter rolling through a controlled intersection,
>> while the car on the side of him is stopping.
>>
>> I always obey a red light. I always signal my turns and lane changes
>> when there are cars or pedestrians around. I never pass on the right
>> unless there is a designated bike lane, I don't squeeze between lanes in
>> traffic. I always have a light when it is dark, I always wear a helmet,
>> I never kick my dog, I eat all of my veggies, I never run with scissors,
>> I always put the seat down....
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of hrdtduck
>> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 7:25 AM
>> To: joec@aracnet.com; 'Jamie Mikami'
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> I'd have to agree D to a F....It really irks me that I see sooooo many
>> cyclist just flout the rules of the road...especially traffic lights and
>> stop signs....you'd think we, (and I say we because we all have some
>> responsibility to bear here) would recognize the damage we do to our
>> image
>> and to our demand to safe & respectful treatment from all other road
>> users.
>> (I.E. the Automorons)....
>> Down here in the Soviet Socialists Republic of Eugene...the biggest
>> problem
>> is the "non-cyclist"...cyclist.....you all know who I am talking
>> about...riding on the sidewalk, off the sidewalk, wrong side of the
>> road,
>> disobeying all traffic rules, clunker bikes, pulling garbage trailers
>> full
>> of cans & trash, there seems to be a disproportionate number of these
>> "cyclists" and they are all too visible on the most commonly used roads
>> in
>> town.
>> Yesterday within 5 minutes on 2 different residential street 4 way stop
>> intersections, I could have legally run over cyclists who just blew off
>> the
>> stop sign....one after I had stopped and was entering the
>> intersection!...She looked right at me and rode into the intersection,
>> no
>> attempt to stop at all. Unbelievable....What the heck can we do as
>> responsible (as responsible as possible) cyclists??
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
>> Behalf Of joe cipale
>> Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 9:38 PM
>> To: Jamie Mikami
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Koin cyclist Poll
>>
>> On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:56 -0700, Jamie Mikami wrote:
>> > http://www.koin.com/
>> >
>> > How do you grade local cyclists when it comes to obeying the rules of
>> > the road?
>> >
>> > Anyone seen the results of the koin cyclist poll? They are not
>> > pretty, currently at 71% D or F.
>>
>> Based on my observations, I would say that is pretty accurate. We as
>> cyclists (and I don't care of you are a commuter, racer, triathlete or
>> recreational rider) are pretty lousy when it comes to obeying the rules
>> of the road. Although it seems that those of us who belong to a club are
>> better at adhering to the rules of the road, I have observed instances
>> where even those individuals are guilty of transgressions.
>>
>> Joe
>>
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