pgarland@gorge.net

This recurring discussion bums me out every time it resurfaces. With the Skibowl announcement I’m
compelled to add my perspective (sport-class woman) to the discussion. I’ve tried my hand at a few
of the cycling disciplines in the last two years, and hands-down xc is the most fun. But having
tried other disciplines I do see that xc could benefit from some additions.

Cross
Pros: A big competitive women’s field, introductory clinics, supportive “heckling”, unique
courses and staggered fields that allow me and my husband to swap watching our son for each other’s
races. Heck, my son is old enough to watch by himself at this point. It’s fun and easy to fit into a
Sunday.
Cons: Sometimes it feels too short to justify the weekly commute from Hood River. (Yeah, get a
single-speed and race twice. Duly noted). But, I guess this falls in the “Pros” category, because of
the bigger fields, we have a lot of carpooling opportunities.
* I disagree that xc is losing racers because people are focusing on ‘cross training. If
anything, my early ‘cross season suffers from my inability to NOT ride hard the Saturday before. How
can you pass up Knebel Springs or Lewis River in the Fall?

Road
Cons: True confessions. I’ve only raced Cherry Pie and didn’t enjoy it all that much. I only felt
safe tooling along in the back after seeing two crashes, watching wheels cross, braking go uncalled
and being pushed to the center line. (Yeah, I need to get over my fear of pavement, race more and
learn tactics).
Pros: The cat 4 series and women’s clinics have made me reassess giving it another shot.

Short Track
Pros/cons: See ‘cross above

XC
Pros: Sure the swag and points are incentives, but I race for the course; Picketts (fast and
buff), Bear Springs (the technical variety), Skibowl (just damn brutal fun), 12 hour Willamette Pass
(that sh*t-eating-grin-single track at the top of every lap), TOE (ok, not enough single-track, but
still epic). 30 seconds after EVERY race I want to go again.
Cons: Small women’s field. The commute and time commitment required. Most times it’s not just a
Sunday, it’s a whole weekend. Also I can’t swap kid-watching duty with my husband who is racing at
the same time. And unlike cross/short track I’m not comfortable leaving my 10 year old alone for
almost 2 hours.

Still, does any of this explain why is xc dying? Mountain bike sales are good I presume. And the
Dirt Series is doing banner business. I’m baffled too. Clinics similar to the ones held for ‘cross
and women’s road races may help attract new riders. Also, “family-friendly” efforts (as corny as it
sounds) that allow parents to pull together for group day care may help.

But, that doesn’t solve the other inherent xc limitations due to seasonal trail closings, permit
issues, etc. (And THANK YOU promoters for your efforts despite these challenges).

I don’t have the answer. Honestly, xc will always require more sacrifice in terms of time, travel,
and training and you’re either going to love it or not. But personally, I think more who taste it
(however we attract them) the more who will love it. Now where’s that survey? I’m ready to cast my
vote! :-)

- patty

Ps -
(Disclaimer. You may ask, “Nice tirade, but where were you all summer?” Ironically, I was prepared
to race most of the xc courses – got the daycare figure out, printed off the schedule, started
building miles in Feb – and then promptly injured my knee at TOE. It’s still healing and can only
handle short efforts. Chronic knee pain and no Skibowl next year; can this get any worse!)

------- Original Message -------
From : Randy Dreiling[mailto:raggy23@yahoo.com]
Sent : 7/22/2008 1:55:19 PM
To : shane.young@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.org
Cc :
Subject : RE: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

Happened to me years ago...fire danger shut the race down with one weeks notice

Randy Dreiling

----- Original Message ----

Randy Dreiling

Happened to me years ago...fire danger shut the race down with one weeks notice

Randy Dreiling

----- Original Message ----
From: "shane.young@comcast.net"
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 11:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

Actually the later you run them the greater chance of them being cancelled due to fire danger. Lot of people forgetting that races held on BLM, Forrest Service or any other land can be cancelled at the last minute due to fire danger. I believe this happened to a race a few years back.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Freyensee, James P"
> Speaking of horrible weather and global warming, but weren't a few of
> the early MTB races affected by the ton of snow we got this year (so
> much for that global warming thing...)? I even remember Randy D.
> sending an email out saying the first Downhill in June was cancelled due
> to snow (and re-opened the resort to skiers/snowboarders)!
>
> It seems like there is a no-win situation happening. Have early season
> MTB races scheduled but risk them being cancelled because of snow. Or
> have later MTB races in great weather and less chance of weather-induced
> cancellation but have less riders show up.
>
> Clear as mud to me...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Ron
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:51 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
> I'm currently racing in the PIR short track XC series, which is my first
> MTB racing of the year.
>
> The reason this is the first XC races I've done this year...I don't like
> to ride in mud which is very prevalent in the spring. Also the road race
> season is in full swing during the spring which is when many of the
> single day road races take place.
>
> I was really looking forward to racing some of XC races this year until
> I looked at the schedule and noticed almost all races were in the spring
> when the weather is horrible in Oregon. That pretty much changed my mind
> until the Short Track XC races at PIR came around.
>
> For me the spring is single day road races and Time Trials. Summer is XC
> racing, stage racing (road) and crits (road).
>
> It's unfortunate that either the racers only want to race in the spring
> or the promoters only want to race in the spring (one of the two parties
> (racers/promoters) isn't listening to the other side) as I won't race
> MTB in the spring...Those races are more about survival than who is the
> best rider.
>
> I love to ride and race MTB's (it's what got me on a bike many years
> ago) but with the current schedule...I won't be joining the XC race
> series any time soon.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team

thats when it was in AugustCliff McCann Pistis MinistriesPistis.us541-659-4104

From: mountainbikepros@msn.comTo: shane.young@comcast.net; obra@list.obra.orgDate: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:11:30 -0700Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

Ya, The Jedi was cancelled 4 years ago because of firesCliff McCann Pistis MinistriesPistis.us541-659-4104> From: shane.young@comcast.net> To: obra@list.obra.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:56:09 +0000> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?> > Actually the later you run them the greater chance of them being cancelled due to fire danger. Lot of people forgetting that races held on BLM, Forrest Service or any other land can be cancelled at the last minute due to fire danger. I believe this happened to a race a few years back.> > > -------------- Original message ----------------------> From: "Freyensee, James P" > > Speaking of horrible weather and global warming, but weren't a few of> > the early MTB races affected by the ton of snow we got this year (so> > much for that global warming thing...)? I even remember Randy D.> > sending an email out saying the first Downhill in June was cancelled due> > to snow (and re-opened the resort to skiers/snowboarders)!> > > > It seems like there is a no-win situation happening. Have early season> > MTB races scheduled but risk them being cancelled because of snow. Or> > have later MTB races in great weather and less chance of weather-induced> > cancellation but have less riders show up.> > > > Clear as mud to me...> > > > -----Original Message-----> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On> > Behalf Of Ron> > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:51 AM> > To: obra@list.obra.org> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?> > > > I'm currently racing in the PIR short track XC series, which is my first> > MTB racing of the year. > > > > The reason this is the first XC races I've done this year...I don't like> > to ride in mud which is very prevalent in the spring. Also the road race> > season is in full swing during the spring which is when many of the> > single day road races take place.> > > > I was really looking forward to racing some of XC races this year until> > I looked at the schedule and noticed almost all races were in the spring> > when the weather is horrible in Oregon. That pretty much changed my mind> > until the Short Track XC races at PIR came around.> > > > For me the spring is single day road races and Time Trials. Summer is XC> > racing, stage racing (road) and crits (road).> > > > It's unfortunate that either the racers only want to race in the spring> > or the promoters only want to race in the spring (one of the two parties> > (racers/promoters) isn't listening to the other side) as I won't race> > MTB in the spring...Those races are more about survival than who is the> > best rider.> > > > I love to ride and race MTB's (it's what got me on a bike many years> > ago) but with the current schedule...I won't be joining the XC race> > series any time soon.> > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team

Ya, The Jedi was cancelled 4 years ago because of fires
Cliff McCann Pistis MinistriesPistis.us541-659-4104> From: shane.young@comcast.net> To: obra@list.obra.org> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 18:56:09 +0000> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?> > Actually the later you run them the greater chance of them being cancelled due to fire danger. Lot of people forgetting that races held on BLM, Forrest Service or any other land can be cancelled at the last minute due to fire danger. I believe this happened to a race a few years back.> > > -------------- Original message ----------------------> From: "Freyensee, James P" > > Speaking of horrible weather and global warming, but weren't a few of> > the early MTB races affected by the ton of snow we got this year (so> > much for that global warming thing...)? I even remember Randy D.> > sending an email out saying the first Downhill in June was cancelled due> > to snow (and re-opened the resort to skiers/snowboarders)!> > > > It seems like there is a no-win situation happening. Have early season> > MTB races scheduled but risk them being cancelled because of snow. Or> > have later MTB races in great weather and less chance of weather-induced> > cancellation but have less riders show up.> > > > Clear as mud to me...> > > > -----Original Message-----> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On> > Behalf Of Ron> > Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:51 AM> > To: obra@list.obra.org> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?> > > > I'm currently racing in the PIR short track XC series, which is my first> > MTB racing of the year. > > > > The reason this is the first XC races I've done this year...I don't like> > to ride in mud which is very prevalent in the spring. Also the road race> > season is in full swing during the spring which is when many of the> > single day road races take place.> > > > I was really looking forward to racing some of XC races this year until> > I looked at the schedule and noticed almost all races were in the spring> > when the weather is horrible in Oregon. That pretty much changed my mind> > until the Short Track XC races at PIR came around.> > > > For me the spring is single day road races and Time Trials. Summer is XC> > racing, stage racing (road) and crits (road).> > > > It's unfortunate that either the racers only want to race in the spring> > or the promoters only want to race in the spring (one of the two parties> > (racers/promoters) isn't listening to the other side) as I won't race> > MTB in the spring...Those races are more about survival than who is the> > best rider.> > > > I love to ride and race MTB's (it's what got me on a bike many years> > ago) but with the current schedule...I won't be joining the XC race> > series any time soon.> > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
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shane.young@comcast.net

Actually the later you run them the greater chance of them being cancelled due to fire danger. Lot of people forgetting that races held on BLM, Forrest Service or any other land can be cancelled at the last minute due to fire danger. I believe this happened to a race a few years back.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Freyensee, James P"
> Speaking of horrible weather and global warming, but weren't a few of
> the early MTB races affected by the ton of snow we got this year (so
> much for that global warming thing...)? I even remember Randy D.
> sending an email out saying the first Downhill in June was cancelled due
> to snow (and re-opened the resort to skiers/snowboarders)!
>
> It seems like there is a no-win situation happening. Have early season
> MTB races scheduled but risk them being cancelled because of snow. Or
> have later MTB races in great weather and less chance of weather-induced
> cancellation but have less riders show up.
>
> Clear as mud to me...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Ron
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:51 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
> I'm currently racing in the PIR short track XC series, which is my first
> MTB racing of the year.
>
> The reason this is the first XC races I've done this year...I don't like
> to ride in mud which is very prevalent in the spring. Also the road race
> season is in full swing during the spring which is when many of the
> single day road races take place.
>
> I was really looking forward to racing some of XC races this year until
> I looked at the schedule and noticed almost all races were in the spring
> when the weather is horrible in Oregon. That pretty much changed my mind
> until the Short Track XC races at PIR came around.
>
> For me the spring is single day road races and Time Trials. Summer is XC
> racing, stage racing (road) and crits (road).
>
> It's unfortunate that either the racers only want to race in the spring
> or the promoters only want to race in the spring (one of the two parties
> (racers/promoters) isn't listening to the other side) as I won't race
> MTB in the spring...Those races are more about survival than who is the
> best rider.
>
> I love to ride and race MTB's (it's what got me on a bike many years
> ago) but with the current schedule...I won't be joining the XC race
> series any time soon.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Freyensee, James P

Speaking of horrible weather and global warming, but weren't a few of
the early MTB races affected by the ton of snow we got this year (so
much for that global warming thing...)? I even remember Randy D.
sending an email out saying the first Downhill in June was cancelled due
to snow (and re-opened the resort to skiers/snowboarders)!

It seems like there is a no-win situation happening. Have early season
MTB races scheduled but risk them being cancelled because of snow. Or
have later MTB races in great weather and less chance of weather-induced
cancellation but have less riders show up.

Clear as mud to me...

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ron
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 9:51 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

I'm currently racing in the PIR short track XC series, which is my first
MTB racing of the year.

The reason this is the first XC races I've done this year...I don't like
to ride in mud which is very prevalent in the spring. Also the road race
season is in full swing during the spring which is when many of the
single day road races take place.

I was really looking forward to racing some of XC races this year until
I looked at the schedule and noticed almost all races were in the spring
when the weather is horrible in Oregon. That pretty much changed my mind
until the Short Track XC races at PIR came around.

For me the spring is single day road races and Time Trials. Summer is XC
racing, stage racing (road) and crits (road).

It's unfortunate that either the racers only want to race in the spring
or the promoters only want to race in the spring (one of the two parties
(racers/promoters) isn't listening to the other side) as I won't race
MTB in the spring...Those races are more about survival than who is the
best rider.

I love to ride and race MTB's (it's what got me on a bike many years
ago) but with the current schedule...I won't be joining the XC race
series any time soon.
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shane.young@comcast.net

Hey folks...

We didn't have any races in March this year. The first race was in April. We only had two races in April. Looking at the schedule we started racing later than any of the last 7 years. So the promoter are listening. We had 4 races in June and July. If you didn't want to race in the mud why didn't you attend all 4 of those races? So you wouldn't win the series, but you could have won a single race. Plus you would have showed that there is some type of demand for summer racing.

I think the racers have spoken. What they really want is dry weather racing in April and May. Maybe we can get the Sagebrush Sundae back, along Race around Bend, the Chainbreaker and Picketts all to run in April and May. The question would be, would people still race in June and July or would they still claim burn out... I remember when their were 12 to 16 mtb races... I heard less about burnout then, than I do now that there are 9 races.

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Eric Kytola"
> Craig is dead on. numbers are falling right? so why not move the
> schedule back!? move it into the summer. May through September. that way
> i can ride mountain bikes with my kids in the spring so they will be
> ready to race when schools out. then as the races are going on in nice
> weather we will be able to camp and show up to race, making a weekend of
> it instead of a long day of driving out of it. plus like others i am
> sure, my kids play soccer in the spring which conflicts with the early
> spring race season. whereas right now, my kids have no sports to do. and
> it happens....we are riding our bikes a lot during this nice weather and
> Leif doesn't understand why there aren't any mountain bike races when
> it's so nice out. i am focusing on kids here because XC mountain bike
> racing needs more kids badly, or it will die.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Craig Austin
> Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:44 AM
> To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net; Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
>
> Is it just me, or do most of the racers who are chiming in seem to be
> asking for the series to start later, and most of the promoters wanting
> it to be run earlier? We've been hearing complaints about low turnout
> for a few years now, and it looks like the market is trying to speak;
> we'll race hard and show up for about 3 months. If those 3 months are
> miserable, fewer of us will show up. If those 3 months are pleasant to
> be on dirt trails, we'll show up in much greater numbers.
>
> Craig
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Rick C Johnson
> Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 8:24 AM
> To: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
>
>
> The problem is that one could put races on the schedule later in the
> season but that wouldn't change the fact that under the current schedule
> people are tired. To cite a recent example it's the same reason why
> political parties have very strict rules about the earliest a states
> presidential primary can be held. If one secures the earliest possible
> date they get all the attention. That sets the stage for everyone
> clamoring to be right up there in the spotlight. Those coming later have
> no chance to be significant.
>
> Rick
>
>
> Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team wrote:
>
> > The racers have nothing to loss. The promoter has everything to loss.
> > I'm sure Peter lost money last weekend. If you aren't over the 100
> > rider mark you are going to loss money. It's a bummer to put in 100
> > hours on a race and have to cover part of the cost.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the races more spread out. I
> > would love if we had 1 race in March and April, 2 in May, June, July
> > and August and one in Septemper to finnish things off. I would make 8
> > out of the 11 races at least. The problem is what promoter is willing
> > to take the chance and move your race to July, August or Sept. Maybe
> > one of you should take on a race in one of those months and show us
> > how it is done. I will be there to support you.
> >
> > Cliff McCann
> > Pistis Ministries
> > Pistis.us
> > 541-659-4104
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:17:17 -0700
> > From: jpweathe@yahoo.com
> > To: obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
> >
> >
> > Agree with Rick and Craig 110% -- it's not fair to conclude everybody
> > likes racing in cold mud based on this skibowl turnout.
> > I think racers (and their families) are simply burned out by now and
> > just want to ride.
> >
> > In my case I chose to race in the point series and then do the Cream
> > Puff, which meant seven mtb races prior to the end of June.
> >
> > I did a mid-summer Skibowl race last year and, while the weather and
> > trails were great, but my motivation was not -- after missing a few
> > turns my race became a ride, along with a couple of other fellows.
> > Not so bad, but I don't really need to pay an entry fee to go for a
> ride!
> >
> > If the point series started later in the year I am almost certain
> > there would be better turnout at all venues. Look to the Colorado
> > series as an example of a strong mtb series that works this way.
> >
> > Why not give it a try for a year -- what do we have to lose?
> >
> > John W.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Time for vacation? WIN what you need. Enter Now!
> >
> >
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> >
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> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> obra@list.obra.org
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains
> information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy
> laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the
> intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from
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Joe Cipale

Craig Austin wrote:

> Is it just me, or do most of the racers who are chiming in seem to be askin=
> g for the series to start later, and most of the promoters wanting it to be=
> run earlier? We've been hearing complaints about low turnout for a few yea=
> rs now, and it looks like the market is trying to speak; we'll race hard an=
> d show up for about 3 months. If those 3 months are miserable, fewer of us =
> will show up. If those 3 months are pleasant to be on dirt trails, we'll sh=
> ow up in much greater numbers.
> =20
> Craig
>

As having been both a promoter and a racer (the verdict is out on the latter), a race is always at the whim of the weather (good and bad), time of year, and other variables too numerous to mention (including desireability of venue). Many roadies do not race the early races as it is too cold/wet/rainy. Others dont race the later dates becuase it is too hot, late in the season, family plans.

You will not pleased all of the people all of the time. And as been stated before: The viability and longevity of race will be determined by the number of faces that show up.

Joe C.

Ron

I'm currently racing in the PIR short track XC series, which is my first MTB racing of the year.

The reason this is the first XC races I've done this year...I don't like to ride in mud which is very prevalent in the spring. Also the road race season is in full swing during the spring which is when many of the single day road races take place.

I was really looking forward to racing some of XC races this year until I looked at the schedule and noticed almost all races were in the spring when the weather is horrible in Oregon. That pretty much changed my mind until the Short Track XC races at PIR came around.

For me the spring is single day road races and Time Trials. Summer is XC racing, stage racing (road) and crits (road).

It's unfortunate that either the racers only want to race in the spring or the promoters only want to race in the spring (one of the two parties (racers/promoters) isn't listening to the other side) as I won't race MTB in the spring...Those races are more about survival than who is the best rider.

I love to ride and race MTB's (it's what got me on a bike many years ago) but with the current schedule...I won't be joining the XC race series any time soon.

Eric Kytola

Craig is dead on. numbers are falling right? so why not move the
schedule back!? move it into the summer. May through September. that way
i can ride mountain bikes with my kids in the spring so they will be
ready to race when schools out. then as the races are going on in nice
weather we will be able to camp and show up to race, making a weekend of
it instead of a long day of driving out of it. plus like others i am
sure, my kids play soccer in the spring which conflicts with the early
spring race season. whereas right now, my kids have no sports to do. and
it happens....we are riding our bikes a lot during this nice weather and
Leif doesn't understand why there aren't any mountain bike races when
it's so nice out. i am focusing on kids here because XC mountain bike
racing needs more kids badly, or it will die.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Craig Austin
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:44 AM
To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net; Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

Is it just me, or do most of the racers who are chiming in seem to be
asking for the series to start later, and most of the promoters wanting
it to be run earlier? We've been hearing complaints about low turnout
for a few years now, and it looks like the market is trying to speak;
we'll race hard and show up for about 3 months. If those 3 months are
miserable, fewer of us will show up. If those 3 months are pleasant to
be on dirt trails, we'll show up in much greater numbers.

Craig

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 8:24 AM
To: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

The problem is that one could put races on the schedule later in the
season but that wouldn't change the fact that under the current schedule
people are tired. To cite a recent example it's the same reason why
political parties have very strict rules about the earliest a states
presidential primary can be held. If one secures the earliest possible
date they get all the attention. That sets the stage for everyone
clamoring to be right up there in the spotlight. Those coming later have
no chance to be significant.

Rick

Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team wrote:

> The racers have nothing to loss. The promoter has everything to loss.
> I'm sure Peter lost money last weekend. If you aren't over the 100
> rider mark you are going to loss money. It's a bummer to put in 100
> hours on a race and have to cover part of the cost.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the races more spread out. I
> would love if we had 1 race in March and April, 2 in May, June, July
> and August and one in Septemper to finnish things off. I would make 8
> out of the 11 races at least. The problem is what promoter is willing
> to take the chance and move your race to July, August or Sept. Maybe
> one of you should take on a race in one of those months and show us
> how it is done. I will be there to support you.
>
> Cliff McCann
> Pistis Ministries
> Pistis.us
> 541-659-4104
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:17:17 -0700
> From: jpweathe@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
>
> Agree with Rick and Craig 110% -- it's not fair to conclude everybody
> likes racing in cold mud based on this skibowl turnout.
> I think racers (and their families) are simply burned out by now and
> just want to ride.
>
> In my case I chose to race in the point series and then do the Cream
> Puff, which meant seven mtb races prior to the end of June.
>
> I did a mid-summer Skibowl race last year and, while the weather and
> trails were great, but my motivation was not -- after missing a few
> turns my race became a ride, along with a couple of other fellows.
> Not so bad, but I don't really need to pay an entry fee to go for a
ride!
>
> If the point series started later in the year I am almost certain
> there would be better turnout at all venues. Look to the Colorado
> series as an example of a strong mtb series that works this way.
>
> Why not give it a try for a year -- what do we have to lose?
>
> John W.
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Time for vacation? WIN what you need. Enter Now!
>
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
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Electronic Privacy Notice. This e-mail, and any attachments, contains information that is, or may be, covered by electronic communications privacy laws, and is also confidential and proprietary in nature. If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you are legally prohibited from retaining, using, copying, distributing, or otherwise disclosing this information in any manner. Instead, please reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error, and then immediately delete it. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.

Gordie Cumming

Start the series later. who needs to be mountain bike racing in March? What
so we can ride in peanut butter mud at Horning's? I always thought of
mountain biking as a summer sport. We seem to be turning it into a winter
sport.

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Craig Austin
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:44 AM
To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net; Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

Is it just me, or do most of the racers who are chiming in seem to be asking
for the series to start later, and most of the promoters wanting it to be
run earlier? We've been hearing complaints about low turnout for a few years
now, and it looks like the market is trying to speak; we'll race hard and
show up for about 3 months. If those 3 months are miserable, fewer of us
will show up. If those 3 months are pleasant to be on dirt trails, we'll
show up in much greater numbers.

Craig

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 8:24 AM
To: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

The problem is that one could put races on the schedule later in the
season but that wouldn't change the fact that under the current schedule
people are tired. To cite a recent example it's the same reason why
political parties have very strict rules about the earliest a states
presidential primary can be held. If one secures the earliest possible
date they get all the attention. That sets the stage for everyone
clamoring to be right up there in the spotlight. Those coming later have
no chance to be significant.

Rick

Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team wrote:

> The racers have nothing to loss. The promoter has everything to loss.
> I'm sure Peter lost money last weekend. If you aren't over the 100
> rider mark you are going to loss money. It's a bummer to put in 100
> hours on a race and have to cover part of the cost.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the races more spread out. I
> would love if we had 1 race in March and April, 2 in May, June, July
> and August and one in Septemper to finnish things off. I would make 8
> out of the 11 races at least. The problem is what promoter is willing
> to take the chance and move your race to July, August or Sept. Maybe
> one of you should take on a race in one of those months and show us
> how it is done. I will be there to support you.
>
> Cliff McCann
> Pistis Ministries
> Pistis.us
> 541-659-4104
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:17:17 -0700
> From: jpweathe@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
>
> Agree with Rick and Craig 110% -- it's not fair to conclude everybody
> likes racing in cold mud based on this skibowl turnout.
> I think racers (and their families) are simply burned out by now and
> just want to ride.
>
> In my case I chose to race in the point series and then do the Cream
> Puff, which meant seven mtb races prior to the end of June.
>
> I did a mid-summer Skibowl race last year and, while the weather and
> trails were great, but my motivation was not -- after missing a few
> turns my race became a ride, along with a couple of other fellows.
> Not so bad, but I don't really need to pay an entry fee to go for a ride!
>
> If the point series started later in the year I am almost certain
> there would be better turnout at all venues. Look to the Colorado
> series as an example of a strong mtb series that works this way.
>
> Why not give it a try for a year -- what do we have to lose?
>
> John W.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Time for vacation? WIN what you need. Enter Now!
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Craig Austin

Is it just me, or do most of the racers who are chiming in seem to be asking for the series to start later, and most of the promoters wanting it to be run earlier? We've been hearing complaints about low turnout for a few years now, and it looks like the market is trying to speak; we'll race hard and show up for about 3 months. If those 3 months are miserable, fewer of us will show up. If those 3 months are pleasant to be on dirt trails, we'll show up in much greater numbers.

Craig

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 8:24 AM
To: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

The problem is that one could put races on the schedule later in the
season but that wouldn't change the fact that under the current schedule
people are tired. To cite a recent example it's the same reason why
political parties have very strict rules about the earliest a states
presidential primary can be held. If one secures the earliest possible
date they get all the attention. That sets the stage for everyone
clamoring to be right up there in the spotlight. Those coming later have
no chance to be significant.

Rick

Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team wrote:

> The racers have nothing to loss. The promoter has everything to loss.
> I'm sure Peter lost money last weekend. If you aren't over the 100
> rider mark you are going to loss money. It's a bummer to put in 100
> hours on a race and have to cover part of the cost.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the races more spread out. I
> would love if we had 1 race in March and April, 2 in May, June, July
> and August and one in Septemper to finnish things off. I would make 8
> out of the 11 races at least. The problem is what promoter is willing
> to take the chance and move your race to July, August or Sept. Maybe
> one of you should take on a race in one of those months and show us
> how it is done. I will be there to support you.
>
> Cliff McCann
> Pistis Ministries
> Pistis.us
> 541-659-4104
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:17:17 -0700
> From: jpweathe@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
>
> Agree with Rick and Craig 110% -- it's not fair to conclude everybody
> likes racing in cold mud based on this skibowl turnout.
> I think racers (and their families) are simply burned out by now and
> just want to ride.
>
> In my case I chose to race in the point series and then do the Cream
> Puff, which meant seven mtb races prior to the end of June.
>
> I did a mid-summer Skibowl race last year and, while the weather and
> trails were great, but my motivation was not -- after missing a few
> turns my race became a ride, along with a couple of other fellows.
> Not so bad, but I don't really need to pay an entry fee to go for a ride!
>
> If the point series started later in the year I am almost certain
> there would be better turnout at all venues. Look to the Colorado
> series as an example of a strong mtb series that works this way.
>
> Why not give it a try for a year -- what do we have to lose?
>
> John W.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Time for vacation? WIN what you need. Enter Now!
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rick C Johnson

The problem is that one could put races on the schedule later in the
season but that wouldn't change the fact that under the current schedule
people are tired. To cite a recent example it's the same reason why
political parties have very strict rules about the earliest a states
presidential primary can be held. If one secures the earliest possible
date they get all the attention. That sets the stage for everyone
clamoring to be right up there in the spotlight. Those coming later have
no chance to be significant.

Rick

Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team wrote:

> The racers have nothing to loss. The promoter has everything to loss.
> I'm sure Peter lost money last weekend. If you aren't over the 100
> rider mark you are going to loss money. It's a bummer to put in 100
> hours on a race and have to cover part of the cost.
>
> Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the races more spread out. I
> would love if we had 1 race in March and April, 2 in May, June, July
> and August and one in Septemper to finnish things off. I would make 8
> out of the 11 races at least. The problem is what promoter is willing
> to take the chance and move your race to July, August or Sept. Maybe
> one of you should take on a race in one of those months and show us
> how it is done. I will be there to support you.
>
> Cliff McCann
> Pistis Ministries
> Pistis.us
> 541-659-4104
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:17:17 -0700
> From: jpweathe@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
>
> Agree with Rick and Craig 110% -- it's not fair to conclude everybody
> likes racing in cold mud based on this skibowl turnout.
> I think racers (and their families) are simply burned out by now and
> just want to ride.
>
> In my case I chose to race in the point series and then do the Cream
> Puff, which meant seven mtb races prior to the end of June.
>
> I did a mid-summer Skibowl race last year and, while the weather and
> trails were great, but my motivation was not -- after missing a few
> turns my race became a ride, along with a couple of other fellows.
> Not so bad, but I don't really need to pay an entry fee to go for a ride!
>
> If the point series started later in the year I am almost certain
> there would be better turnout at all venues. Look to the Colorado
> series as an example of a strong mtb series that works this way.
>
> Why not give it a try for a year -- what do we have to lose?
>
> John W.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Time for vacation? WIN what you need. Enter Now!
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
>http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

casey

I feel the same way, with a majority of the races so early in the season I've just about burned all my bridges with my family. I'm not personally burned out, in fact I really wanted to be at SkiBowl. I would love it if the series started later and ran into the summer rather than so many miserable mudfests in February through May. I know my family would be happy to come watch me race in the summer, but they're just tired of me being busy racing all spring.

So please don't think the low turnout is just due to people having too many other plans in the summer. For a lot of us it's because we had too many plans in the Spring.

Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team

The racers have nothing to loss. The promoter has everything to loss. I'm sure Peter lost money last weekend. If you aren't over the 100 rider mark you are going to loss money. It's a bummer to put in 100 hours on a race and have to cover part of the cost.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the races more spread out. I would love if we had 1 race in March and April, 2 in May, June, July and August and one in Septemper to finnish things off. I would make 8 out of the 11 races at least. The problem is what promoter is willing to take the chance and move your race to July, August or Sept. Maybe one of you should take on a race in one of those months and show us how it is done. I will be there to support you. Cliff McCann Pistis MinistriesPistis.us541-659-4104

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:17:17 -0700From: jpweathe@yahoo.comTo: obra@list.obra.orgSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

Agree with Rick and Craig 110% -- it's not fair to conclude everybody likes racing in cold mud based on this skibowl turnout. I think racers (and their families) are simply burned out by now and just want to ride. In my case I chose to race in the point series and then do the Cream Puff, which meant seven mtb races prior to the end of June. I did a mid-summer Skibowl race last year and, while the weather and trails were great, but my motivation was not -- after missing a few turns my race became a ride, along with a couple of other fellows. Not so bad, but I don't really need to pay an entry fee to go for a ride!If the point series started later in the year I am almost certain there would be better turnout at all venues. Look to the Colorado series as an example of a strong mtb series that works this way. Why not give it a try for a year -- what do we have to lose?John W.
_________________________________________________________________
Time for vacation? WIN what you need- enter now!
http://www.gowindowslive.com/summergiveaway/?ocid=tag_jlyhm

John Weathers

Agree with Rick and Craig 110% -- it's not fair to conclude everybody likes racing in cold mud based on this skibowl turnout.  I think racers (and their families) are simply burned out by now and just want to ride.

In my case I chose to race in the point series and then do the Cream Puff, which meant seven mtb races prior to the end of June.   

I did a mid-summer Skibowl race last year and, while the weather and trails were great, but my motivation was not -- after missing a few turns my race became a ride, along with a couple of other fellows.  Not so bad, but I don't really need to pay an entry fee to go for a ride!

If the point series started later in the year I am almost certain there would be better turnout at all venues.  Look to the Colorado series as an example of a strong mtb series that works this way.  

Why not give it a try for a year -- what do we have to lose?

John W.

Craig Austin

Cross and short track are "where racing is at" because they're run at
the best time of year to enjoy those respective types of racing. XC is
run at the WORST time of year to race a mountain bike in Oregon. April,
May and early June are terrible times to be on a mountain bike in
western Oregon (but great times to be on a road bike); Bend area races
are better because they aren't mudfests, but they can be snowed in.
Short track is close and easy to get to, but don't discount the fact
that it's fun to ride a mountain bike in nice weather, which also
accounts for lots of turnout.

You can't judge Oregon mountain biking enthusiasm by the Ski Bowl
turnout. I rarely miss a Ski Bowl race but they aren't well promoted on
the OBRA website or list, the promoter doesn't send reminders, the
flyers are rarely up to date or don't have all the information on them,
and like others have pointed out, people have been racing mountain bikes
since winter.

I couldn't promise to make it to every mountain bike race if they
started in June and went through August, but I'd make it to lots more
than I do now, and just as importantly, my wife and kids wouldn't be
miserable if they came along. My kids might even be able to DO a race if
it was held in anything approaching decent conditions. As it is, they
won't ever get started in XC.

Cross racing is for cross season, but that's what the mountain bike
season has turned into over the past several years.

Craig Austin

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Dreiling
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 11:04 PM
To: Rick Johnson; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

Giant was at Mt Bike Oregon(MBO) and left to be at Ski Bowl..they left
at 9pm from Oakridge Saturday night, so they could be at ski bowl on
Sunday
Not sure about what happened at ski bowl, but they were getting out a
lot bikes at MBO

I still think that short track and cross impact the turn out of XC...I
am NOT saying that is a bad thing, just that it is the way racing is
right now

I have said this a million times...cross is so hot now that people that
use to race all year now take the summer off to get ready for cross.

The Cross Crusade and short track is where racing is at right now

Randy Dreiling

----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Paul Greenwalt
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Brian Johnson
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 7:30:02 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

That point is what leads me to conclude that it's not the family aspect
that kept people from coming out. Rather, it's racing burn out. I say
that because at Skibowl this weekend - in addition to the previously
mentioned race related things - there was whole Adventure Park full of
family friendly fun:

"When the snow melts, Skibowl transforms into an Adventure Park
featuring 20+ attractions. There are indy karts and kiddy jeeps, batting
cages, kids' play zone, miniature golfing, horseback trail rides, bungee
jumping, zip line, guided trail hikes and so much more. Our unique
mountain environment offers the perfect setting for summer fun.

You control the brakes, you control the speed - but you'll never
control the full-tilt rush of excitement as you whoosh through the
half-mile of mountain meadows on the Northwest's only dual alpine
slide!"

Then there was the Giant Demo truck with free rides of Giant's Downhill
bikes. Arts and crafts, book shopping and museum across the road in
Government Camp.

No, if you choose not to come out and race this one you are done with
racing - or you're simply dead. What a shame to waste such an awesome
opportunity!

And that reinforces the point that racing in Oregon starts too early and
ends too early. I think I'll propose a rule at the annual meeting that
there shall be no road races sanctioned before March 20th and no MTB
races before June 20th.

Rick

Paul Greenwalt wrote:

The race, weather, and venue were great...it would be sad if
that was the
last race at Skibowl. It's a great race for dragging the family

along...lots to keep everyone busy.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Johnson"

To:
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to
race?

I guess attendance at Skibowl races won't be an issue
next year
because there won't BE any races at Skibowl!!
(Apparently Petr's
packing in the Skibowl
races?)

That said, Skibowl totally owned me yesterday. I sucked.
:)

Thanks all for the race-- especially the water hand-ups.

Brian J.


---

"May Evil beware and may Good dress warmly and eat lots
of fresh
vegetables."

--The Tick

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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--
Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon
541-390-5269
RCJohnson1@Attglobal.net

Randy Dreiling

Giant was at Mt Bike Oregon(MBO) and left to be at Ski Bowl..they left at 9pm from Oakridge Saturday night, so they could be at ski bowl on Sunday
Not sure about what happened at ski bowl, but they were getting out a lot bikes at MBO

I still think that short track and cross impact the turn out of XC...I am NOT saying that is a bad thing, just that it is the way racing is right now

I have said this a million times...cross is so hot now that people that use to race all year now take the summer off to get ready for cross.

The Cross Crusade and short track is where racing is at right now

Randy Dreiling

----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Paul Greenwalt
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Brian Johnson
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 7:30:02 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

That point is what leads me to conclude that it's not the family aspect
that kept people from coming out. Rather, it's racing burn out. I say
that because at Skibowl this weekend - in addition to the previously
mentioned race related things - there was whole Adventure Park full of
family friendly fun:

"When the snow melts, Skibowl transforms into an Adventure
Park featuring 20+ attractions. There are indy karts and kiddy jeeps,
batting cages, kids’ play zone, miniature golfing, horseback trail
rides, bungee jumping, zip line, guided trail hikes and so much more.
Our unique mountain environment offers the perfect setting for summer
fun.

You control the brakes, you control the speed – but you’ll never
control the full-tilt rush of excitement as you whoosh through the
half-mile of mountain meadows on the Northwest’s only dual alpine
slide!"

Then there was the Giant Demo truck with free rides of Giant's Downhill
bikes. Arts and crafts, book shopping and museum across the road in
Government Camp.

No, if you choose not to come out and race this one you are done with
racing - or you're simply dead. What a shame to waste such an awesome
opportunity!

And that reinforces the point that racing in Oregon starts too early
and ends too early. I think I'll propose a rule at the annual meeting
that there shall be no road races sanctioned before March 20th and no
MTB races before June 20th.

Rick

Paul Greenwalt wrote:
The race, weather, and venue were great...it would be sad if that was the
last race at Skibowl. It's a great race for dragging the family
along...lots to keep everyone busy.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Johnson"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

I guess attendance at Skibowl races won't be an issue next year
because there won't BE any races at Skibowl!! (Apparently Petr's
packing in the Skibowl races?)

That said, Skibowl totally owned me yesterday. I sucked. :)

Thanks all for the race-- especially the water hand-ups.

Brian J.

---

"May Evil beware and may Good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh
vegetables."

--The Tick

_______________________________________________
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http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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--
Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon
541-390-5269
RCJohnson1@Attglobal.net

Brian Spears

Anything Skibowl is my favorite MTB event. I'm new to MTB as of last year
(thanks Craig) and the experience of Skibowl was something that galvanized
me. Furthermore, I just can't even begin to express how hammering Skibowl
in the winter has affected my life and to ride a MTB race on the same slopes
as some of my favorite ski runs is something that has become a singular
experience. Sunday's snow encounters were absolutely joyful, like seeing an
old friend in a familiar place.

I've spoken with a number of Half Fasters and we are universally bummed at
the departure of an old stalwart.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Paul Greenwalt
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 5:52 PM
To: Brian Johnson; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

The race, weather, and venue were great...it would be sad if that was the
last race at Skibowl. It's a great race for dragging the family
along...lots to keep everyone busy.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Johnson"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

> I guess attendance at Skibowl races won't be an issue next year
> because there won't BE any races at Skibowl!! (Apparently Petr's
> packing in the Skibowl races?)
>
> That said, Skibowl totally owned me yesterday. I sucked. :)
>
> Thanks all for the race-- especially the water hand-ups.
>
> Brian J.
>
>
> ---
>
> "May Evil beware and may Good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh
> vegetables."
>
> --The Tick
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

david baker

I am very much into summer races and hope we get more but you are kidding about that proposal , right...
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick Johnson
To: Paul Greenwalt
Cc: obra@list.obra.org ; Brian Johnson
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

That point is what leads me to conclude that it's not the family aspect that kept people from coming out. Rather, it's racing burn out. I say that because at Skibowl this weekend - in addition to the previously mentioned race related things - there was whole Adventure Park full of family friendly fun:

"When the snow melts, Skibowl transforms into an Adventure Park featuring 20+ attractions. There are indy karts and kiddy jeeps, batting cages, kids' play zone, miniature golfing, horseback trail rides, bungee jumping, zip line, guided trail hikes and so much more. Our unique mountain environment offers the perfect setting for summer fun.

You control the brakes, you control the speed - but you'll never control the full-tilt rush of excitement as you whoosh through the half-mile of mountain meadows on the Northwest's only dual alpine slide!"

Then there was the Giant Demo truck with free rides of Giant's Downhill bikes. Arts and crafts, book shopping and museum across the road in Government Camp.

No, if you choose not to come out and race this one you are done with racing - or you're simply dead. What a shame to waste such an awesome opportunity!

And that reinforces the point that racing in Oregon starts too early and ends too early. I think I'll propose a rule at the annual meeting that there shall be no road races sanctioned before March 20th and no MTB races before June 20th.

Rick

Paul Greenwalt wrote:
The race, weather, and venue were great...it would be sad if that was the
last race at Skibowl. It's a great race for dragging the family
along...lots to keep everyone busy.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Johnson"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

I guess attendance at Skibowl races won't be an issue next year
because there won't BE any races at Skibowl!! (Apparently Petr's
packing in the Skibowl races?)

That said, Skibowl totally owned me yesterday. I sucked. :)

Thanks all for the race-- especially the water hand-ups.

Brian J.

---

"May Evil beware and may Good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh
vegetables."

--The Tick

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
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obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

--
Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon
541-390-5269
RCJohnson1@Attglobal.net

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Rick Johnson

That point is what leads me to conclude that it's not the family aspect
that kept people from coming out. Rather, it's racing burn out. I say
that because at Skibowl this weekend - in addition to the previously
mentioned race related things - there was whole Adventure Park full of
family friendly fun:

"When the snow melts, Skibowl transforms into an Adventure
Park featuring 20+ attractions. There are indy karts and kiddy jeeps,
batting cages, kids’ play zone, miniature golfing, horseback trail
rides, bungee jumping, zip line, guided trail hikes and so much more.
Our unique mountain environment offers the perfect setting for summer
fun.



You control the brakes, you control the speed – but you’ll never
control the full-tilt rush of excitement as you whoosh through the
half-mile of mountain meadows on the Northwest’s only dual alpine
slide!"

Then there was the Giant Demo truck with free rides of Giant's Downhill
bikes. Arts and crafts, book shopping and museum across the road in
Government Camp.



No, if you choose not to come out and race this one you are done with
racing - or you're simply dead. What a shame to waste such an awesome
opportunity!



And that reinforces the point that racing in Oregon starts too early
and ends too early. I think I'll propose a rule at the annual meeting
that there shall be no road races sanctioned before March 20th and no
MTB races before June 20th.



Rick





Paul Greenwalt wrote:

The race, weather, and venue were great...it would be sad if that was the 

last race at Skibowl.  It's a great race for dragging the family 

along...lots to keep everyone busy.

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Brian Johnson" <brian.p.johnson@gmail.com>

To: <obra@list.obra.org>

Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:36 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

  

 I guess attendance at Skibowl races won't be an issue next year

because there won't BE any races at Skibowl!!  (Apparently Petr's

packing in the Skibowl races?)

That said, Skibowl totally owned me yesterday. I sucked. :)

Thanks all for the race-- especially the water hand-ups.

Brian J.

---

"May Evil beware and may Good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh

vegetables."

--The Tick

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org 

    

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

  

-- 

Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon

541-390-5269

RCJohnson1@Attglobal.net

Paul Greenwalt

The race, weather, and venue were great...it would be sad if that was the
last race at Skibowl. It's a great race for dragging the family
along...lots to keep everyone busy.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Johnson"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

> I guess attendance at Skibowl races won't be an issue next year
> because there won't BE any races at Skibowl!! (Apparently Petr's
> packing in the Skibowl races?)
>
> That said, Skibowl totally owned me yesterday. I sucked. :)
>
> Thanks all for the race-- especially the water hand-ups.
>
> Brian J.
>
>
> ---
>
> "May Evil beware and may Good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh
> vegetables."
>
> --The Tick
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

bcr123@comcast.net

The racers have spoken, the majority do not want to race in nice weather they show up in droves to early season races to race in the worst conditions but do not show for summer races, it's a simple decision for Promoters, start the MTB season in January, shorten the laps, add a time limit, allow bike swaps then change the name to cyclocross since that's what people seem to actually want.

Perhaps in a few years we can start up a new sport, maybe called "mountain biking" that takes place on epic trails in the mountains, people will get all jazzed about it and want to race their "mountain" bikes then we can start a race series that takes place in the mountains in the nice weather that comes with an Oregon Summer.

--
Brandon Reed
bcr123@comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Freyensee, James P"

> Bummer to hear about the decreased number of MTB races this year and the
> good chance there will be no more races at Skibowl next year, which
> means less racing in great Oregon weather. I had a great time doing the
> Oregon MTB scene last year. Sorry I wasn't there to help out with the
> numbers; there are just some things in my life I wanted to address this
> year and I thought it would be best to address them by taking a race
> hiatus.
>
> Jay
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of will
> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:55 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
> The weather was great, those of us non-pros did some 'cross dismounts to
> get through snow patches and you can't beat a pretty lady handing out
> water at an aide station...
>
> So, where were you? This definitely had to be the smallest Sport Men
> 19-39 field I have ever seen; maybe less than 10 or 11. I was totally
> expecting the parking lot to be full!
>
> For what it's worth, there was only 1 race at SkiBowl this year as
> opposed to the 3 last year. With Oakridge FTF cancelled this year, the
> number of races is definitely down. It's two-thirds of the way through
> July and I'll be hanging up the OBRA mtb plate.
>
> -will
>
> PS -- come out to Short Track. We've got just a couple races left!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Randy Dreiling

NOT trying to be rude or start a big discussion here AGAIN, but this just proves that hardly anyone races XC after June anymore...on the other hand the first Willamette Pass DH had a great turn out this weekend.

This was the ONLY Hood XC in 2008 and still bad numbers
Unless I can have the Oakridge FTF in May or early June I likely wouldn't bring it back, as I said not to be rude but if a race closest to where the majority of the racers live can't pull numbers Oakridge would have been really screwed this Summer

Take Care

Randy Dreiling

----- Original Message ----
From: "Freyensee, James P"
To: will ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 4:09:39 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

Bummer to hear about the decreased number of MTB races this year and the
good chance there will be no more races at Skibowl next year, which
means less racing in great Oregon weather. I had a great time doing the
Oregon MTB scene last year. Sorry I wasn't there to help out with the
numbers; there are just some things in my life I wanted to address this
year and I thought it would be best to address them by taking a race
hiatus.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of will
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:55 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

The weather was great, those of us non-pros did some 'cross dismounts to
get through snow patches and you can't beat a pretty lady handing out
water at an aide station...

So, where were you? This definitely had to be the smallest Sport Men
19-39 field I have ever seen; maybe less than 10 or 11. I was totally
expecting the parking lot to be full!

For what it's worth, there was only 1 race at SkiBowl this year as
opposed to the 3 last year. With Oakridge FTF cancelled this year, the
number of races is definitely down. It's two-thirds of the way through
July and I'll be hanging up the OBRA mtb plate.

-will

PS -- come out to Short Track. We've got just a couple races left!
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Freyensee, James P

Bummer to hear about the decreased number of MTB races this year and the
good chance there will be no more races at Skibowl next year, which
means less racing in great Oregon weather. I had a great time doing the
Oregon MTB scene last year. Sorry I wasn't there to help out with the
numbers; there are just some things in my life I wanted to address this
year and I thought it would be best to address them by taking a race
hiatus.

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of will
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:55 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

The weather was great, those of us non-pros did some 'cross dismounts to
get through snow patches and you can't beat a pretty lady handing out
water at an aide station...

So, where were you? This definitely had to be the smallest Sport Men
19-39 field I have ever seen; maybe less than 10 or 11. I was totally
expecting the parking lot to be full!

For what it's worth, there was only 1 race at SkiBowl this year as
opposed to the 3 last year. With Oakridge FTF cancelled this year, the
number of races is definitely down. It's two-thirds of the way through
July and I'll be hanging up the OBRA mtb plate.

-will

PS -- come out to Short Track. We've got just a couple races left!
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Brian Johnson

I guess attendance at Skibowl races won't be an issue next year
because there won't BE any races at Skibowl!! (Apparently Petr's
packing in the Skibowl races?)

That said, Skibowl totally owned me yesterday. I sucked. :)

Thanks all for the race-- especially the water hand-ups.

Brian J.

---

"May Evil beware and may Good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh
vegetables."

--The Tick

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

No more XC races at Ski Bowl as per Peter. He said with low turnout is
reason. This may have been the last one there unless MTB riders that enjoy
a "TOUGH" cross country course get it together enough to get him to put
another one on... and get the numbers there. This is not meant to start up
another huge gob of babble about numbers at races... fact is there were not
many riders there and he can make a better living doing other events for
riders. That venue is about as good as it gets... close to huge population
center, great place to stage with good support and BEAUTIFUL. Oh well! I
am old enough to know that nothing lasts forever. Short track tonight as
long as I stay vertical.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "david baker"
To: "will" ;
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

> Yeah,
> what a day! Great summer weather, hopefully all of those people that
> complain in april about not having enough summer races were there.
> Blistering sun, icy snow, FUN trails! That's what it's all about. We had 9
> people in the 40 plus expert as opposed to 5 at this race last year, so
> that
> was good.
> There is still one race up there in sept, I believe.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "will"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:54 PM
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
>
>> The weather was great, those of us non-pros did some 'cross dismounts to
>> get through snow patches and you can't beat a pretty lady handing out
>> water at an aide station...
>>
>> So, where were you? This definitely had to be the smallest Sport Men
>> 19-39
>> field I have ever seen; maybe less than 10 or 11. I was totally expecting
>> the parking lot to be full!
>>
>> For what it's worth, there was only 1 race at SkiBowl this year as
>> opposed
>> to the 3 last year. With Oakridge FTF cancelled this year, the number of
>> races is definitely down. It's two-thirds of the way through July and
>> I'll
>> be hanging up the OBRA mtb plate.
>>
>> -will
>>
>> PS -- come out to Short Track. We've got just a couple races left!
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

david baker

Yeah,
what a day! Great summer weather, hopefully all of those people that
complain in april about not having enough summer races were there.
Blistering sun, icy snow, FUN trails! That's what it's all about. We had 9
people in the 40 plus expert as opposed to 5 at this race last year, so that
was good.
There is still one race up there in sept, I believe.
----- Original Message -----
From: "will"
To:
Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 7:54 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

> The weather was great, those of us non-pros did some 'cross dismounts to
> get through snow patches and you can't beat a pretty lady handing out
> water at an aide station...
>
> So, where were you? This definitely had to be the smallest Sport Men 19-39
> field I have ever seen; maybe less than 10 or 11. I was totally expecting
> the parking lot to be full!
>
> For what it's worth, there was only 1 race at SkiBowl this year as opposed
> to the 3 last year. With Oakridge FTF cancelled this year, the number of
> races is definitely down. It's two-thirds of the way through July and I'll
> be hanging up the OBRA mtb plate.
>
> -will
>
> PS -- come out to Short Track. We've got just a couple races left!
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

will

The weather was great, those of us non-pros did some 'cross dismounts to get through snow patches and you can't beat a pretty lady handing out water at an aide station...

So, where were you? This definitely had to be the smallest Sport Men 19-39 field I have ever seen; maybe less than 10 or 11. I was totally expecting the parking lot to be full!

For what it's worth, there was only 1 race at SkiBowl this year as opposed to the 3 last year. With Oakridge FTF cancelled this year, the number of races is definitely down. It's two-thirds of the way through July and I'll be hanging up the OBRA mtb plate.

-will

PS -- come out to Short Track. We've got just a couple races left!