Ron and Dorothy Strasser
Yeah! It was too hot. I had a summer cold. I flatted and didn't have a tire iron. The family (including little ol' me) was on vacation. I was strapped to the sofa and Oprah wouldn't let me get up. I woke up and I was dead! You are so right George.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: gschreckchat@comcast.net
To: Long, Steve
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] race attendence
People always have an excuse. I would have been there but ...... The fact is the excuses seem more prevalent in the summer.
--
George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Long, Steve"
I don't know for sure but maybe one of the reasons that the Firecracker TT was poorly attended was because the flyer was not ready for display until a week or two before the event date. Once the flyer was in place, the information on it was not complete such that people had to ask more questions about the event.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of gschreckchat@comcast.net
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:00 PM
To: david baker; Erik; Craig Austin; Randy Dreiling
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race numbers again
This schedule problem is not much different than it is for road racing. Most of the road races are early in the year when the weathr is bad, because the turn out is high. Road races in the summer more or less have disappeared (or moved to an early date) due to low turnout. One could argue it is burn out dur to the early start, summer family commitments or alternatives like PIR that addesss people's racing needs without the commitment of using a weekend. Probably all three. We had the same discussion a few years ago regarding road racing and seemed to come to the conclusion that the lack of summer road racing was due to our own lack of participation, whatever the reasons (for example, the recently cancelled Hell of the Cascades and the poorly attended TT in Peoria).
Despite your desires to the contrary, the numbers speak for themselves, and more are less are very likely the result of an overabundace of racing alternatives which is a good problem to have.
I assume if we only had a few races a month, they would be better attended, but then people would be complaining that there are not enough races.
--
George Schreck
gschreckchat@comcast.net
(503) 502-0425
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "david baker"
Are you saying getting rid of 24 hr races and short track will help xc racing?
I don't think distances have increased, but they should.
Well maybe I'll go along with the 30 divisions thing, but that is not killing xc.
XC being cool... hmm.
29 inch wheels are nice, big climbs and flat bars? Big climbs are good, have always been, same with flat bars. Mt hood has big climbs and I use flat bars, but some people call it a difficult course.
We still have a lot of races. I can see what Chris said about getting burnt out by feeling you need to complete every race to get your series points.
Maybe to "fix" the "problem" we should have a series for spring and another one for summer. We can't tell promoters when to put races on, but we could tell them that July, August, and Sept, are summer series and April, May, June, are spring series. Then people like me could just go for the summer series, and others could do the spring series. And if you are gonna have a big year do both. Like doin the giro and the tour in one year. Then do cyclo cross as the vuelta.
----- Original Message -----
From: Erik
To: Craig Austin ; Randy Dreiling
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race numbers again
I was not all that concerned about our situation here in Oregon. Our off-road racing always seemed quite healthy compared to a lot of other places.
The rumor that Peter - one of the most successful promoters in the NW - is ending his XC races worries me. Something is really wrong here. We know it's not a lack of riders. We've got plenty. In spite of that, we've had 2 canceled xc races this year along with every race at Willamette Pass, which wouldn't be a big deal if we weren't losing the 2 that Peter organizes for next year. What does that leave us with?
I'll take the public damnation here and say what everyone else seems to be afraid to say: Oregon XC racing is dying. Why do you think we have this conversation so often? Numbers are down because we're screwing up.
I cringe every time I read the phrase "the problem is". As if there's one problem and one magic pill to restore the h ealth of our region's off-road racing. We've got to be screwing the pooch in so many different positions to lose the Skibowl Series when off-road triathlons are booming at more than double the entry fee.
Things to consider:
- A small sport spreading itself too thin with too many types of events (XC, Short Track, Super D, Marathon, 24-hour racing, etc.)
- As distances have increased, attendance has decreased.
- 30 different divisions at each event make even a good turnout seem pitifully thin.
- When was the last time XC racing was considered "cool" by anyone other than us?
- Since XC mountainbikes with 700c (29inch) wheels are becoming so very common, is xc racing simply becoming a cyclocross race with big climbs and flat bars?
-Erik
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:54:42 -0700
From: austinc@exponent.com
To: raggy23@yahoo.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race numbers again
Sorry to seem to be finger-pointing Randy. I appreciate all the hard work that goes into promoting races and love the opportunities we do have.
I guess it seems like a chicken-and-egg question. Did the racers start telling you and Mike that they'd race more if you moved races to the muddy season? It had to start sometime, for some reason. Maybe that's what you were hearing from racers--that they didn't want to race in summer.
At some point, for some reason, races started moving earlier on the calendar. Of course the first few races will have good turnout, regardless of when they are, because we're always anxious for the season to start. All I'm saying (and it seems to be reflected by lots of very active racers) is that if the season started later, it could go later. Now that the bulk of the season is over by the beginning of June, only the most hardcore of mountain bikers will show up to race, and I think you know that's not how you make money. The non-hardcore racers then end up feeling intimidated even at the later races, as they know they've missed half or more of the season and aren't going to be competitive, so they just don't go.
I understand that you're in business, and as a business owner I would think you'd welcome all this free market research. I haven't seen any messages from the main promoters (you and Mike) asking OBRA: "If we move the start of the season to May and run it into August/September, will you do more or fewer races?" Seems like the answer to that question (it could even be set up as a poll) would be of great interest to those of you trying not to lose your shirt promoting races.
If you put it to the OBRA community as a whole, and the majority say they like the early season races and don't want to race in summer, then by all means continue with the current formula. But to me, the current formula doesn't seem to be working.
Respectfully,
Craig
------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Randy Dreiling [mailto:raggy23@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 9:36 AM
To: Craig Austin; RCJohnson1@attglobal.net; Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Subject: Mt Bike race numbers again
Hold on please
I put on races for many years in July and August and I had low turn out and lost money the last five years because people stopped showing up in the summer
I do a great job of posting about my events, I have my dates set well in advance and I have flyers in shops all over the state
Promoters put on races when people show...when people showed in the summer (which clearly they don't anymore) we put on races then
What I see is a handful of long time die hart racers (most who have raced for years and remember when we raced in the summer) posting about starting later.
I do not see a majority by any stretch sorry .
Please don't speak for us promoters...I would WAY rather put on a race in the summer if only people showed...marking a course in the rain is a total pain in the ass. Clean up after a muddy race is a total pain in the ass...reading muddy pull tags is a m ajor pain in the ass....as you can see a summer race is better for a promoter, so it is not the promoters fault, as I said we put on races when people race.
Weather people mean to or not it comes across as a racer vs promoter thing and remember most promoters race or have raced...we do this for the sport because we sure as hell don't make any money at it, with that said we should loose money either
Take care
Randy Dreiling
----- Original Message ----
From: Craig Austin
To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net; Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:44:14 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
Is it just me, or do most of the racers who are chiming in seem to be asking for the series to start later, and most of the promoters wanting it to be run earlier? We've been hearing complaints about low turnout for a few years now, and it looks like the market is trying to speak; we'll race hard and show up for about 3 months. If those 3 months are miserable, fewer of us will show up. If those 3 months are pleasant to be on dirt trails, we'll show up in much greater numbers.
Craig
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. IM anytime you're online.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org