Erik
Actually Karsten, the rider with the TT getup will only win if he has made a point of training many, many miles on the tt bike. Otherwise, the privileged rider with the expensive bike is bound to have problems.
Case and point: http://www.velonews.com/article/81685/the-evolution-of-aero
The aero gear can help, but I happen to know that Chris Horner himself has opted for his standard road bike for certain ProTour TT's (much to the chagrin of his former Lotto team). He simply wasn't used to the tt setup because he didn't have a TT bike to train on at home.
I know this is counter-intuitive for most cyclists because we're so notorious for insisting on having the latest and greatest in expensive crap, but if you haven't been training a full-aero position, you're better off with standard drop bars.
Realistically, if you hosers spent half as much time on your bikes as you do emailing this list obsessing about who you shouldn't have to race against and all the gizmos you don't have, you'd be more competitive in a matter of months.
-Erik
> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 17:42:14 -0700
> From: hagenkt@mac.com
> To: macej@ohsu.edu; mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
>
> I feel a whole new email string coming on......
>
> If two people of equal abilities start a TT at the same time of day during
> the same weather conditions and one is on a standard road bike and one is on
> a Felt DA with Zipp disc and Giro TT helmet (my dream setup, pay no
> attention to the details) the guy on the TT setup will win; that is obvious.
>
> So, having a "traditional" category levels the playing field for those that
> don't have the scratch can still compete for a medal.
>
> Karsten
>
>
> On 8/19/08 5:34 PM, "Jess Mace" wrote:
>
> > It¹s a common misnomer at this level of competition to think that aero-gear is
> > a huge
> > technical advantage over strong and targeted training. I'm not saying it does
> > not help or provide some kind
> > of advantage to many riders, however I've passed quite a few guys on Cervelo
> > P3's with full
> > Zipp componentry and wheelsets on my old aluminum TT set up...and have been
> > passed by quite a few more
> > guys no aerogear whatsoever...I've raced and learned enough now to not credit
> > TT placements with one's expendable income..
> > thinking otherwise is simply falling for what a good marketer has told you in
> > some advertisement.
> >
> >
> > Jess Mace, MPH
> > Clinical Outcomes Research - Oregon Sinus Center
> > Department of Otolaryngology - Head and Neck Surgery
> > Oregon Health & Science University
> > 503.494.5886
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf
> > Of Karsten Hagen
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 5:23 PM
> > To: mike.murray@obra.org; obra@list.obra.org
> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> >
> > How about taking a cue from the DH crowd and running a "traditional"
> > category of TT at districts, similar to the Hardtail category in some DH
> > events. Meaning only standard road equipment is allowed (skinsuits OK).
> > That way, "buying speed" is not necessarily a ticket to a district medal.
> >
> > Karsten
> >
> >
> > On 8/19/08 5:12 PM, "Mike Murray" wrote:
> >
> >> TTs are in stage races primarily because otherwise there would be multiple
> >> riders that finished with the same time; i.e. multiple riders tied for
> >> places with o reasonable way to sort them out. This occurs because a single
> >> time is given for all riders that finish in a group together. Pack time is
> >> a reasonable method and is done universally in bike racing. In the past it
> >> was impossible to give riders their own finish time. This could be done
> >> with current timing equipment but I don't think we want to encourage
> >> everyone sprinting in so that they don't lose the time between 20th and
> >> 40th. I am also not sure it would be such a great idea for us to do things
> >> so different from everyone else in the world.
> >>
> >> A separate category for TT would be possible but stage races will still need
> >> to be divided by road category and will still need to include a TT. It
> >> would also require a fair amount more administrative work. If someone wants
> >> there to be separate categories for they can feel free to propose that rule
> >> change through the rule change process outline in the first paragraph of the
> >> rules.
> >>
> >> An alternative the I would suggest is that all TTs produce overall results
> >> for all competitors listing the fastest to slowest. There could then be
> >> secondary results done for specific groups; individual categories, age
> >> groups, home town, hair color ... Whatever. I see no reason why a single
> >> rider could not be the 5th place overall, 1st place Cat 4 and 2nd place 35+.
> >>
> >> I also don't think that the importance of TT specific equipment should be
> >> over emphasized. There is a measurable benefit from a skinsuit, TT bars and
> >> aero wheels (mostly front wheel) but the other stuff provides minimal
> >> benefit. Even a purchase of a maximal amount of TT equipment is only likely
> >> to improve placing by a small amount. Most people could ride a stage race
> >> TT on their regular road bike and they GC position would be minimally
> >> effected.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> >> Behalf Of Brian
> >> Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 15:22 PM
> >> To: obra@list.obra.org
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] TT, categories, and beer for lunch
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No beer for me today Erik, unfortunately.
> >>
> >> I think it is important for an organization to be able to reassess its own
> >> institutions from time to time. If you aren't interested in doing that,
> >> this post isn't for you.
> >>
> >> The categories thing might seem extreme, but honestly that is how they do it
> >> in many countries where cycling has been around a lot longer than it has
> >> here. Whatever its benefit, Categorization creates only the illusion of
> >> fair competition and success.
> >>
> >> And I do believe that realistically, for the average racer out there, it
> >> would be more fulfilling and realistic to focus on his own improvement and
> >> beating his friends at the races than to worry about getting on the podium
> >> and eventually becoming a cat2, the be-all end-all of local cycling. But
> >> that's just one opinion on healthy competition mentality.
> >>
> >> As for time trialing, I do think that it is a completely distinct discipline
> >> than road racing. I also think it' a serious flaw in stage race design that
> >> it requires investing a couple grand in aero equipment simply for the sake
> >> of being competitive in GC, when in one way of looking at it, TT has little
> >> to do with the actual concept of a stage race.
> >>
> >> Also, let's face it, most people with TT bikes just get them out of the
> >> garage a few times a year when they need them. Thinking of TT as a separate
> >> discipline, with its own categories if necessary, would make them more
> >> attractive purchases and encourage using them more.
> >>
> >> And finally, I believe that the perception that time trialing is a
> >> subdivision of road racing creates just one more barrier for new cyclists
> >> entering the sport. E.g., potential racer shows up to watch Mt. Hood
> >> Cycling Classic, sees that every racer is dressed like a mutant and riding a
> >> min. 5k dollar bike, and has no way of relating that to the kind of biking
> >> he does.
> >>
> >> Thanks for asking me to clarify that. Now for some beer...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Erik wrote:
> >>
> >> Brian, please tell us that you had a few beers with lunch and THEN wrote
> >> that.
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> >
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