Seth Hosmer

Lots of good comments so far regarding nutrition and exercise. The take home on bone health is that for an otherwise healthy individual, both good nutrition (and possibly supplementation) and proper load-bearing exercise are required for skeletal health.

Your bones are dynamic like the rest of your body - constantly being remodeled and broken down/re-built. They respond to the demands imposed on them, "bulking up" when the proper stimulus is applied or thinning/weakenening if the skeletal system is not properly stressed. This is the SAID principle - specific adaptation to imposed demand, and most systems of the body respond to meet the challenges we apply.

I spoke with a MD bone density researcher at OHSU about this bone health question, and he agreed that around 1000mg of Calcium and 800 IU of vitamin D per day are needed for optimal bone health from a nutrition standpoint. This can come from food, supplements, etc.

Note that most of us do not get adequate vitamin D in fall/winter/spring b/c we don't get adequate sun exposure.

For the exercise part of the equation, multi-joint exercises that load the skeleton can provide a stimulus for bone to increase strength. There is also the added benefit of re-balancing the body after a season of cycling.

I will be again offering my Strength Training for Endurance Athletes program starting in October. This is an excellent program for improving the health of your musculoskeletal system.

Seth Hosmer, DC, CSCS
www.HPChiro.com
503.227.2279

Joel Morrissette

Great summary. Especially the points about needing Mg to absorb Ca, to
which I would add vitamin D. If the body is using skeletal Ca to neutralize
acidid protein residues, does that imply that those on a high-protein diet
(e.g. Atkins) are at elevated risk for osteoporosis?

-Joel

2008/9/10 J. Michael Manning

> Matthew,
> You are right in asking these questions, but I would like to redirect your
> logic. First of all, your MD probably could not give you more than a generic
> answer, simply because they do not study nutrition as it is not typically
> required as a part of their professional practice. For years, doctors have
> been telling people, mostly women, that to prevent bone loss, to increase
> the amount of calcium in their diet. They suggest dairy as the perfect
> source of the calcium. On the other hand, any Naturopath doctor could
> explain to you that calcium deficiencies do not result from a lack of dairy
> intake. Ironically, even though the U.S. is one of the top consumers in the
> world of dairy products, we also rank very near the top of the list in
> osteoporosis. The incidence of osteoporosis is just as high in other
> countries with a large consumption of dairy. England and Sweden follow
> closely behind the United States with cases of osteoporosis. They also
> follow closely behind the United States in dairy consumption. Dairy calcium
> has two major flaws that actually increases and worsens osteoporosis! *First,
> dairy calcium contains little or no magnesium.*
> In order to absorb calcium into the bones, the human body needs an equal
> amount of magnesium. Dairy products do not have enough magnesium to
> accomplish this task. However, magnesium is found in abundance in dark green
> leafy vegetables, something that most Americans eat very little of unless
> they are vegetarians. So think spinach salad.
>
> *Second, dairy contains too much protein.*
> Another potential source of the problem can be the overconsumption of
> protein. That is due to the acidic residue left behind from protein
> metabolism. Dietary protein causes the blood to become acidic. The human
> body needs an alkaline environment in order to function in a healthy way,
> and that is especially true of endurance athletes. To neutralize this acid
> and restore pH balance, the body uses its largest source of calcium: the
> skeletal system. The calcium in bones is the perfect neutralizer to the
> acids in protein. For example, if you take in 1000-1500 mg of high-protein
> calcium daily, the average person will still lose 4% bone mass each year!
> The body actually consumes its own skeleton to neutralize the acid found in
> protein.
> *So where do we find calcium that is balanced with magnesium and is also
> low in protein?*
> In green vegetables! Vegetables such as spinach, kale, and broccoli contain
> large amount of calcium, a good balance of magnesium, and low levels of
> acidic protein. The molecular structure of chlorophyll, the green blood of
> plant life, contains the magnesium molecule. And we find that in countries
> where dairy consumption is low and green vegetable consumption is high, the
> incidence of osteoporosis is low. China and Japan for example, have very low
> rates of osteoporosis and they consume very little dairy.
> *Calcium is not the only factor in the Osteoporosis equation.*
> Calcium loss can also be caused by hereditary factors, intake of salt,
> high-fat foods, caffeine, and tobacco products. Also, lack of weight-bearing
> exercise also increases the risks of osteoporosis. Weight training (cycling
> is not a weight bearing activity) will stimulate bone density, but only if
> you are providing your body with all of the necessary ingredients.
> Now...if you are unwilling to eat green leafy vegetables on a regular
> basis, you might consider calcium supplements. Just be sure that it is from
> a variety of different sources and is combined with Vitamin D3 , Vitamin C,
> and magnesium for better absorption.
>
> J.Michael Manning
> CycleOne Coaching
> "Athletic Excellence is our Business"
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: MathewB@dowa.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:28:30 -0700
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] broken bones
>
> Morning,
>
>
>
> This question is probably more for my doctor but I thought id toss it out
> to obra as well.
>
>
>
> Seems in the last 5+/- years every time I hit the deck I come out with a
> broken bone. Ive been active in sports my whole life and have never broken
> a bone until just the last few years ago. Now 35 im going on 3 breaks.
>
>
>
> Back in the day I used to drink a few pints of milk a day and now I barely
> get much at all. am I dairy calcium short?
>
>
>
> Any thoughts/insight would be appreciated.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> mathew br*au*n
>
> *d o w a*
>
> 319 sw washington street. #200
>
> portland, or 97204
>
> p: 503.226.6950
>
> f: 503.273.9192
>
> d: 503.419.0906
>
> m: 503.808.0495
>
> [image: Click for more info on the CSL]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER:
> The information contained in this e-mail is intended only for the
> individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Its contents (including any
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__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond

davidoliph@gmail.com

The one thing that I would add to Michael's comments are the importance of vitamin d. Evidence is showing the lack of vitamin d for many due to minimal sunlight, age, problems with absorbtion can actually be one of many underlying cause of osteoporosis.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: J.Michael Manning

Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:21:22
To: ;
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] broken bones

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J.Michael Manning

Matthew,
You are right in asking these questions, but I would like to redirect your logic. First of all, your MD probably could not give you more than a generic answer, simply because they do not study nutrition as it is not typically required as a part of their professional practice. For years, doctors have been telling people, mostly women, that to
prevent bone loss, to increase the amount of calcium in their diet.
They suggest dairy as the perfect source of the calcium. On the other hand, any Naturopath doctor could explain to you that
calcium deficiencies do not result from a lack of dairy intake. Ironically, even though the U.S. is one of the top consumers in the
world of dairy products, we also rank very near the top of the list in
osteoporosis. The incidence of osteoporosis is just as high in other countries with a
large consumption of dairy. England and Sweden follow closely behind
the United States with cases of osteoporosis. They also follow closely
behind the United States in dairy consumption. Dairy
calcium has two major flaws that actually increases and worsens osteoporosis! First, dairy calcium contains little or no magnesium.
In order to absorb calcium into the bones, the human body needs
an equal amount of magnesium. Dairy products do not have enough
magnesium to accomplish this task. However, magnesium is found in
abundance in dark green leafy vegetables,
something that most Americans eat very little of unless they are
vegetarians. So think spinach salad.
Second, dairy contains too much protein.
Another potential source of the problem can be the
overconsumption of protein. That is due to the acidic residue left
behind from protein metabolism. Dietary protein causes the blood to become acidic. The human body needs an alkaline
environment in order to function in a healthy way, and that is
especially true of endurance athletes. To neutralize
this acid and restore pH balance, the body uses its largest source of calcium: the
skeletal system. The calcium in bones is the perfect neutralizer to the
acids in protein. For example, if you take in 1000-1500 mg of
high-protein calcium daily, the average person will still lose 4% bone
mass each year! The body actually consumes its own skeleton to
neutralize the acid found in protein. So where do we find calcium that is balanced with magnesium and is also low in protein?
In green vegetables! Vegetables such as spinach, kale, and
broccoli contain large amount of calcium, a good balance of magnesium,
and low levels of acidic protein. The molecular structure of
chlorophyll, the green blood of plant life, contains the magnesium
molecule. And we find that in countries where dairy consumption is low
and green vegetable consumption is high, the incidence of osteoporosis
is low. China and Japan for example, have very low rates of osteoporosis and they consume very little dairy. Calcium is not the only factor in the Osteoporosis equation.
Calcium loss can also be caused by hereditary factors, intake of
salt, high-fat foods, caffeine, and tobacco products. Also, lack of
weight-bearing exercise also increases the risks of osteoporosis. Weight training (cycling is not a weight bearing activity) will
stimulate bone density, but only if you are providing your body with
all of the necessary ingredients. Now...if you are unwilling to eat green leafy vegetables on a regular basis, you might consider calcium supplements. Just be sure that it is from a variety of different sources and is combined with Vitamin D3 , Vitamin C, and magnesium for better absorption.

J.Michael Manning
CycleOne Coaching
"Athletic Excellence is our Business"

From: MathewB@dowa.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 07:28:30 -0700
Subject: [OBRA Chat] broken bones

Morning,

This question is probably more for my doctor but I thought
id toss it out to obra as well.

Seems in the last 5+/- years every time I hit the deck I come
out with a broken bone. Ive been active in sports my whole life and have
never broken a bone until just the last few years ago. Now 35 im going on
3 breaks.

Back in the day I used to drink a few pints of milk a day
and now I barely get much at all. am I dairy calcium short?

Any thoughts/insight would be appreciated.

Cheers,

mathew braun

d
o w a

319
sw washington street.
#200

portland,
or 97204

p: 503.226.6950

f:
503.273.9192

d:
503.419.0906

m:
503.808.0495

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entity to whom it is addressed. Its contents (including any attachments) are
confidential and may contain privileged information. If you are not an intended
recipient you must not use, disclose, disseminate, copy or print its
contents. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by
reply e-mail and delete and destroy the message.

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john

Mmm, i have actually heard that dairy is more of detriment  to building
bones than a help.  Sure it has calcium, but that doesn't mean its
absorbable, supposedly stuff in cows milk hinders calcium absorption. 
The dairy association though is big business and  will have
studies and of course TV ads, that show the opposite.  Green leafy
vegetables(daily) is a much better source, and in a form the human body
can absorb. 

breaking bones is probably mainly a function of
how you hit the ground, ie.. how your bones get loaded with a force. In
your particular situations, you just hit wrongly. 

Obviously
the best bet is to avoid crashes in the first place.  Most people ride
too uptight and stiff and push too big a gear.  Try to ride in front of
these sort of riders.  As i get older too, i will back way off if I
start feeling uncomfortable... its just not worth it.   I am constantly
reading body language , its part of the fun of racing and part of
becoming a good racer.

Next do weight training.  Its not to to get you big muscles necssarily but to
stress your bones, joints, mucsles, tendons and given this stress, your bones/body will strengthen.  

I
am not going to recall this exactly, but from research at OSU, et al,
maybe 5-6 years ago and previous, high bone density can most easily be
established only to mid 20's or so.  up to that age,  high stress, high
g loading, high impact can have huge effect on bone strength and
density, the human body responds really well...  And then this will
then stay with you for the rest of your life.
After mid 20's or
so, the human body doesn't respond as well to the high stress
situations... meaning the bone density increase  / response is a lot
less than when you were younger.. 

I kind of wish i had known
this when i was 20 or so, i would have done a hell of a  lot more
weight training.  I know my dad, had the snot worked out of him when he
was kid, ie  throwing 80 lb hay bales off the end of a pitchfork 15
feet up, sort of work all summer long... and has had doctors, etc,
comment on how incredible sturdy his musculoskeletal system is... No
broken bones ever, not even when an out of control car, going over 60
mph, hit him and sent him flying 50 feet or so into the blackberry
bushes.  He got up and walked out of the ditch and was milling around
when they went looking for a body... 

My
opinion on this, then is, if you are are a teen or still in early 20's
or if you have a kid that is,  physically work the snot out of them,
with work that takes a lot of strength...Yep menial hard labor.  They
will thank you when they are older. 

--- On Wed, 9/10/08, MathewB@dowa.com wrote:
From: MathewB@dowa.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] broken bones
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 7:28 AM

Morning,

 

This question is probably more for my doctor but I thought
id toss it out to obra as well. 

 

Seems in the last 5+/- years every time I hit the deck I come
out with a broken bone.  Ive been active in sports my whole life and have
never broken a bone until just the last few years ago.  Now 35 im going on
3 breaks. 

 

Back in the day I used to drink a few pints of milk a day
and now I barely get much at all.  am I dairy calcium short? 

 

Any thoughts/insight would be appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

mathew braun 

d  
o   w   a

319 
sw washington street . 
#200

portland ,
or  97204

p:  503.226.6950

f: 
503.273.9192

d: 
503.419.0906

m: 
503.808.0495

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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MathewB@dowa.com

Morning,

This question is probably more for my doctor but I thought id toss it out to obra as well.

Seems in the last 5+/- years every time I hit the deck I come out with a broken bone. Ive been active in sports my whole life and have never broken a bone until just the last few years ago. Now 35 im going on 3 breaks.

Back in the day I used to drink a few pints of milk a day and now I barely get much at all. am I dairy calcium short?

Any thoughts/insight would be appreciated.

Cheers,

mathew braun
d o w a
319 sw washington street. #200
portland, or 97204
p: 503.226.6950
f: 503.273.9192
d: 503.419.0906
m: 503.808.0495
[cid:image001.jpg@01C91316.42689C10]

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