Course safety

Robert Anderson

2008-10-31

They should use "lazers" to mark the course.

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:43 PM, T. Kenji Sugahara wrote:

> Phew... I had to read that twice. I thought for a moment that it said
> "pony" lift.
>
>
> On Oct 30, 2008, at 10:37 AM, EAL wrote:
>
> > I really like the chairlift idea!!!! I'd settle for a ropetow or
> > even a poma lift.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
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>

--
Rob Anderson
riznob@gmail.com


T. Kenji Sugahara

2008-10-30

Phew... I had to read that twice. I thought for a moment that it said
"pony" lift.

On Oct 30, 2008, at 10:37 AM, EAL wrote:

> I really like the chairlift idea!!!! I'd settle for a ropetow or
> even a poma lift.
>
> Ed
>
>


shane.young@comcast.net

2008-10-30

The poma would be great for photos. People being dragged by the poma becasue they fell over.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: EAL
> I really like the chairlift idea!!!!? I'd settle for a ropetow or even a poma
> lift.
> ?
> Ed
>
>
> --- On Thu, 10/30/08, Raedeke, John wrote:
>
> From: Raedeke, John
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Course safety
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 8:45 AM
>
>
> Maybe we should also clear the course of rocks, fill potholes, rake wet leaves
> and divert around potentially slippery muddy sections too. ?Maybe a chairlift up
> some of those run-ups. ?
>
> Seriously I think there is potential for accidents in any race, no matter what
> we do. ?That?s Racin? !! ?I have seen more tape wrapped up into someone?s wheel,
> cog, or brakes or a stake taking out a pedal and cause issues more than cones. ?
> Cones are just another great obstacle. ?We had some cones and some tape at the
> Southern Oregon Outlaw race last weekend, no cone problems, no tape problems. ?
> Just riders riding over their head a few times and going down on their own. ?
> Thankfully not taking anyone with them. With or without cones or tape/stakes
> that will happen at some point. ?After all that is one of the draws for the
> spectators, watching some fun crashes.
>
> All in all what it really takes is a careful use of both in appropriate areas
> and working on educating the participants and spectators as to where to walk,
> ride and stand. ?Veteran racers can be a great teacher for novice racers and
> spectators, and help keep the course as safe as possible.
>
> john
>
>
>
>
> On 10/29/08 11:08 AM, "Erik Voldengen" wrote:
>
>
> Friends that have raced from out of town do not respect cones at all, and claim
> cones only mark suggested course. ?I don't feel the same way, but they all sure
> seem to hate cones.
>
> But now that all those cones have been purchased, it's a greener solution! ?I
> wonder how much of that plastic course tape goes into the nation's land fills in
> the course of a single cyclocross season. ?Probably enough to fill 20 Cross
> Crusade RVs. ?I don't think I've ever seen a race gather up the course tape for
> reuse next time.
>
> -Erik
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Terry Keele wrote:
>
> I think it's time we truly evaluate whether cones are down-right un safe. ?They
> offer zero crowd control and end up scattered about the course. ?In the A race
> on Saturday, a cone ?was spit out of a back wheel and into Seth Hosmer's front
> wheel resulting in an ugly crash that also took out Mike Beno.
>
> In the same race, I was being lapped by Chris Sheppard and two River City Riders
> were coming at us head-on in the wrong lane. ?I want to be clear that they were
> not cheating or cutting the course in any way, they simply lost track of the
> maze of cones and following what they thought was the course.
>
> Cones also allow riders to ride outside of their abilities when they see clean
> dirt beyond the cone lined barrier. ?I'm not advocating we tape the entire
> course, but taping the danger spots is a good first step.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
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>
> John Raedeke
> IP Video Network Coordinator
> Rogue Community College
> Office ??541.956.7039
> Mobile 541.499.5459
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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>
>
>
>


I really like the chairlift idea!!!!  I'd settle for a ropetow or even a poma lift.
 
Ed

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Raedeke, John wrote:

From: Raedeke, John
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Course safety
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 8:45 AM

Maybe we should also clear the course of rocks, fill potholes, rake wet leaves and divert around potentially slippery muddy sections too.  Maybe a chairlift up some of those run-ups.  

Seriously I think there is potential for accidents in any race, no matter what we do.  That’s Racin’ !!  I have seen more tape wrapped up into someone’s wheel, cog, or brakes or a stake taking out a pedal and cause issues more than cones.  Cones are just another great obstacle.  We had some cones and some tape at the Southern Oregon Outlaw race last weekend, no cone problems, no tape problems.  Just riders riding over their head a few times and going down on their own.  Thankfully not taking anyone with them. With or without cones or tape/stakes that will happen at some point.  After all that is one of the draws for the spectators, watching some fun crashes.

All in all what it really takes is a careful use of both in appropriate areas and working on educating the participants and spectators as to where to walk, ride and stand.  Veteran racers can be a great teacher for novice racers and spectators, and help keep the course as safe as possible.

john

On 10/29/08 11:08 AM, "Erik Voldengen" wrote:

Friends that have raced from out of town do not respect cones at all, and claim cones only mark suggested course.  I don't feel the same way, but they all sure seem to hate cones.

But now that all those cones have been purchased, it's a greener solution!  I wonder how much of that plastic course tape goes into the nation's land fills in the course of a single cyclocross season.  Probably enough to fill 20 Cross Crusade RVs.  I don't think I've ever seen a race gather up the course tape for reuse next time.

-Erik

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Terry Keele wrote:

I think it's time we truly evaluate whether cones are down-right un safe.  They offer zero crowd control and end up scattered about the course.  In the A race on Saturday, a cone  was spit out of a back wheel and into Seth Hosmer's front wheel resulting in an ugly crash that also took out Mike Beno.

In the same race, I was being lapped by Chris Sheppard and two River City Riders were coming at us head-on in the wrong lane.  I want to be clear that they were not cheating or cutting the course in any way, they simply lost track of the maze of cones and following what they thought was the course.

Cones also allow riders to ride outside of their abilities when they see clean dirt beyond the cone lined barrier.  I'm not advocating we tape the entire course, but taping the danger spots is a good first step.
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John Raedeke
IP Video Network Coordinator
Rogue Community College
Office   541.956.7039
Mobile 541.499.5459
P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
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Raedeke, John

2008-10-30

Maybe we should also clear the course of rocks, fill potholes, rake wet
leaves and divert around potentially slippery muddy sections too. Maybe a
chairlift up some of those run-ups.

Seriously I think there is potential for accidents in any race, no matter
what we do. That¹s Racin¹ !! I have seen more tape wrapped up into
someone¹s wheel, cog, or brakes or a stake taking out a pedal and cause
issues more than cones. Cones are just another great obstacle. We had some
cones and some tape at the Southern Oregon Outlaw race last weekend, no cone
problems, no tape problems. Just riders riding over their head a few times
and going down on their own. Thankfully not taking anyone with them. With
or without cones or tape/stakes that will happen at some point. After all
that is one of the draws for the spectators, watching some fun crashes.

All in all what it really takes is a careful use of both in appropriate
areas and working on educating the participants and spectators as to where
to walk, ride and stand. Veteran racers can be a great teacher for novice
racers and spectators, and help keep the course as safe as possible.

john

On 10/29/08 11:08 AM, "Erik Voldengen" wrote:

> Friends that have raced from out of town do not respect cones at all, and
> claim cones only mark suggested course. I don't feel the same way, but they
> all sure seem to hate cones.
>
> But now that all those cones have been purchased, it's a greener solution! I
> wonder how much of that plastic course tape goes into the nation's land fills
> in the course of a single cyclocross season. Probably enough to fill 20 Cross
> Crusade RVs. I don't think I've ever seen a race gather up the course tape
> for reuse next time.
>
> -Erik
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Terry Keele
> wrote:
>> I think it's time we truly evaluate whether cones are down-right un safe.
>> They offer zero crowd control and end up scattered about the course. In the
>> A race on Saturday, a cone was spit out of a back wheel and into Seth
>> Hosmer's front wheel resulting in an ugly crash that also took out Mike Beno.
>>
>> In the same race, I was being lapped by Chris Sheppard and two River City
>> Riders were coming at us head-on in the wrong lane. I want to be clear that
>> they were not cheating or cutting the course in any way, they simply lost
>> track of the maze of cones and following what they thought was the course.
>>
>> Cones also allow riders to ride outside of their abilities when they see
>> clean dirt beyond the cone lined barrier. I'm not advocating we tape the
>> entire course, but taping the danger spots is a good first step.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

John Raedeke
IP Video Network Coordinator
Rogue Community College
Office 541.956.7039
Mobile 541.499.5459
P Please consider the environment before printing this email.


Kevin

2008-10-29

--- On Wed, 10/29/08, craig austin wrote:
From: craig austin
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: course safety

8<  snip  >8
 
Face it, the Cone Crash isn't the main cause of 'cross injuries. Adrenaline and lack of bike handling skills are. If you can't ride your cross bike over a plastic traffic cone, do some off-season mountain biking so you can stay upright, don't burden the Crusaders with extra work and expense.

 
Where's Cobra Kai when we need the voice of reason?

:-)


craig austin

2008-10-29

I must've ridden over at least a dozen cones this season alone, and I've
seen hundreds of feral cones on the courses, but I'm not seeing an epidemic
of cone-caused mayhem. I'd rather take my chances riding over scattered
cones than falling into a wooden stake with tape on it. I view the odd
errant cone as just another obstacle on a 'cross course. Riders ARE going to
get pushed off course, or lose their line, in every race; tape won't stop it
from happening, but the stakes used to hold the tape are a lot more
dangerous than the cones are.

In addition, when the inevitable happens and someone goes off course
and takes out 30 meters of tape, it takes a lot longer to reassemble that
part of the course than when someone simply rides through a set of cones.

Face it, the Cone Crash isn't the main cause of 'cross injuries. Adrenaline
and lack of bike handling skills are. If you can't ride your cross bike over
a plastic traffic cone, do some off-season mountain biking so you can stay
upright, don't burden the Crusaders with extra work and expense.

Where's Cobra Kai when we need the voice of reason?

Craig Austin

2008/10/29 Mike Murray

OBRA used to use pennant flagging. It was a gigantic PITA. It is
> distinctly not reusable unless you are using a considerably smaller amount
> than what we would currently use if it replaced tape. We buy the tape in
> cases. We used to have gigantic tangled balls of pennant flagging. Taping
> is a better option. Tape does require that there be upright supports or
> other items to string it between, which often causes a safety hazard
> itself. Tape does not make it impossible to end up going the wrong way.
> Trebon was knocked out by a racer last year on a course that was taped when
> another rider got on the wrong side of the tape. Tape is a bit better at
> keeping non-racers from crossing the course, but only marginally so. People
> walking along really have no problem with ducking under the tape and causing
> lots of problems. We see them doing that all the time.
>
> While I am on that subject there is a related problem happening every race
> at the finish line. People walking across the finish or, worse, standing in
> front of the camera are causing problems for the camera which is a major
> part of how we for judge the race. The most difficult thing to figure out
> is when we warn people not to walk across the finish they often crouch down
> and run. Somehow I had never thought that "Stop!" could be interpreted as
> "It will be OK if you duck down and run". Even worse is the people on bikes
> riding past the finish line when they are not racing. You have to keep in
> mind that after the race what we have a series of pictures of each rider as
> they cross the line. There is a time associated with these riders. We do
> not have a way of telling which direction the rider was going (backwards
> riders will produce a left-to-right inverted image but everyone looks like
> they are going the same way). Feel free to come over some time and look
> over our shoulder at the pictures that we are looking at. We can't tell if
> you were racing or just riding to the can or something. Bottom line is ...
> DO NOT CROSS THE FINISH LINE ON A BIKE OR ON FOOT UNLESS CROSSING THAT LINE
> IS PART OF THE RACE.
>
>
>
> Mike Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Gina Miller
> *Sent:* Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:37 PM
> *To:* Melissa Boyd; Seth Hosmer
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] course safety
>
>
> Pennant flagging might be a good middle ground. It comes in long lengths
> (25 feet or longer) and can be re-used so it's not as disposable as caution
> tape. You can even use the cones, put a plastic pvc pipe inside the the
> tops of the cones (most cones have open tops) and string the flagging. This
> will help on some of the dangerous corners and other areas that need more
> crowd control....
>
> -gina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Melissa Boyd [mailto:melissafroggie@gmail.com
> ]
> Sent: Wed 10/29/2008 2:10 PM
> To: Seth Hosmer
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] course safety
>
> I don't know what the right solution is for course marking, but I
> personally prefer the cones to the rebar or hard-plastic posts I have seen
> at some races. I nearly skewered myself on one, and it seems that they have
> a lot more potential for serious injury than a plastic cone.
>
> Melissa
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Seth Hosmer wrote:
>
>
> While we are on the topic of 'cross course safety, it is worth
> mentioning that the cones should probably be replaced with fencing or tape
> in some places. This would hopefully prevent potential problems with
> spectators.
>
> In addition, the cones have a tendency to get ridden over and
> bumped into the course which can - and does - cause crashes.
>
> Seth Hosmer, DC, CSCS
> Health & Performance Chiropractic
> www.HPChiro.com >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Mike Murray

2008-10-29

OBRA used to use pennant flagging. It was a gigantic PITA. It is
distinctly not reusable unless you are using a considerably smaller amount
than what we would currently use if it replaced tape. We buy the tape in
cases. We used to have gigantic tangled balls of pennant flagging. Taping
is a better option. Tape does require that there be upright supports or
other items to string it between, which often causes a safety hazard itself.
Tape does not make it impossible to end up going the wrong way. Trebon was
knocked out by a racer last year on a course that was taped when another
rider got on the wrong side of the tape. Tape is a bit better at keeping
non-racers from crossing the course, but only marginally so. People walking
along really have no problem with ducking under the tape and causing lots of
problems. We see them doing that all the time.

While I am on that subject there is a related problem happening every race
at the finish line. People walking across the finish or, worse, standing in
front of the camera are causing problems for the camera which is a major
part of how we for judge the race. The most difficult thing to figure out
is when we warn people not to walk across the finish they often crouch down
and run. Somehow I had never thought that "Stop!" could be interpreted as
"It will be OK if you duck down and run". Even worse is the people on bikes
riding past the finish line when they are not racing. You have to keep in
mind that after the race what we have a series of pictures of each rider as
they cross the line. There is a time associated with these riders. We do
not have a way of telling which direction the rider was going (backwards
riders will produce a left-to-right inverted image but everyone looks like
they are going the same way). Feel free to come over some time and look
over our shoulder at the pictures that we are looking at. We can't tell if
you were racing or just riding to the can or something. Bottom line is ...
DO NOT CROSS THE FINISH LINE ON A BIKE OR ON FOOT UNLESS CROSSING THAT LINE
IS PART OF THE RACE.

Mike Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Gina Miller
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 12:37 PM
To: Melissa Boyd; Seth Hosmer
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] course safety

Pennant flagging might be a good middle ground. It comes in long lengths (25
feet or longer) and can be re-used so it's not as disposable as caution
tape. You can even use the cones, put a plastic pvc pipe inside the the
tops of the cones (most cones have open tops) and string the flagging. This
will help on some of the dangerous corners and other areas that need more
crowd control....

-gina

-----Original Message-----
From: Melissa Boyd [mailto:melissafroggie@gmail.com]
Sent: Wed 10/29/2008 2:10 PM
To: Seth Hosmer
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] course safety

I don't know what the right solution is for course marking, but I personally
prefer the cones to the rebar or hard-plastic posts I have seen at some
races. I nearly skewered myself on one, and it seems that they have a lot
more potential for serious injury than a plastic cone.

Melissa

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Seth Hosmer wrote:

While we are on the topic of 'cross course safety, it is worth
mentioning that the cones should probably be replaced with fencing or tape
in some places. This would hopefully prevent potential problems with
spectators.

In addition, the cones have a tendency to get ridden over and bumped
into the course which can - and does - cause crashes.

Seth Hosmer, DC, CSCS
Health & Performance Chiropractic
www.HPChiro.com

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Gina Miller

2008-10-29

Pennant flagging might be a good middle ground. It comes in long lengths (25 feet or longer) and can be re-used so it's not as disposable as caution tape. You can even use the cones, put a plastic pvc pipe inside the the tops of the cones (most cones have open tops) and string the flagging. This will help on some of the dangerous corners and other areas that need more crowd control....

-gina

-----Original Message-----
From: Melissa Boyd [mailto:melissafroggie@gmail.com]
Sent: Wed 10/29/2008 2:10 PM
To: Seth Hosmer
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] course safety

I don't know what the right solution is for course marking, but I personally prefer the cones to the rebar or hard-plastic posts I have seen at some races. I nearly skewered myself on one, and it seems that they have a lot more potential for serious injury than a plastic cone.

Melissa

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Seth Hosmer wrote:

While we are on the topic of 'cross course safety, it is worth mentioning that the cones should probably be replaced with fencing or tape in some places. This would hopefully prevent potential problems with spectators.

In addition, the cones have a tendency to get ridden over and bumped into the course which can - and does - cause crashes.

Seth Hosmer, DC, CSCS
Health & Performance Chiropractic
www.HPChiro.com

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Rick Johnson

2008-10-29

Probably there's some sort of heavier
strap-like material that could be reused? Bungees could be fun too.

Zzzzz... nice laceration you have there. Everybody try not to slip in
the blood!





Matt Distefano wrote:

body{font-family: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color: #ffffff;color: black;}The
cones could still be used in a lot of cases. They work fine for
straight sections and using fences/tape isn't always going to be an
option (pavement, for instance). It's mostly areas where the course is
zig-zagging repeatedly that the cones get confusing.



Probably there's some sort of heavier strap-like material that could be
reused? Bungees could be fun too.



-----Original
Message-----


From: Erik Voldengen


Sent: Oct 29, 2008 2:08 PM


To: Terry Keele


Cc: obra@list.obra.org


Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Course safety




Friends that have raced from out of town do not respect cones at all,
and claim cones only mark suggested course.  I don't feel the same way,
but they all sure seem to hate cones.



But now that all those cones have been purchased, it's a greener
solution!  I wonder how much of that plastic course tape goes into the
nation's land fills in the course of a single cyclocross season. 
Probably enough to fill 20 Cross Crusade RVs.  I don't think I've ever
seen a race gather up the course tape for reuse next time.



-Erik












On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Terry
Keele <terry.keele@agedwards.com>
wrote:

I
think it's time we truly evaluate whether cones are down-right un safe.
 They offer zero crowd control and end up scattered about the course.
 In the A race on Saturday, a cone  was spit out of a back wheel and
into Seth Hosmer's front wheel resulting in an ugly crash that also
took out Mike Beno.



In the same race, I was being lapped by Chris Sheppard and two River
City Riders were coming at us head-on in the wrong lane.  I want to be
clear that they were not cheating or cutting the course in any way,
they simply lost track of the maze of cones and following what they
thought was the course.



Cones also allow riders to ride outside of their abilities when they
see clean dirt beyond the cone lined barrier.  I'm not advocating we
tape the entire course, but taping the danger spots is a good first
step.

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org









_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Matt Distefano

2008-10-29

body{font-family: Geneva,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:9pt;background-color: #ffffff;color: black;}The cones could still be used in a lot of cases. They work fine for straight sections and using fences/tape isn't always going to be an option (pavement, for instance). It's mostly areas where the course is zig-zagging repeatedly that the cones get confusing.

Probably there's some sort of heavier strap-like material that could be reused? Bungees could be fun too.

-----Original Message-----

From: Erik Voldengen

Sent: Oct 29, 2008 2:08 PM

To: Terry Keele

Cc: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Course safety



Friends that have raced from out of town do not respect cones at all, and claim cones only mark suggested course.  I don't feel the same way, but they all sure seem to hate cones.

But now that all those cones have been purchased, it's a greener solution!  I wonder how much of that plastic course tape goes into the nation's land fills in the course of a single cyclocross season.  Probably enough to fill 20 Cross Crusade RVs.  I don't think I've ever seen a race gather up the course tape for reuse next time.


-Erik





On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Terry Keele <terry.keele@agedwards.com> wrote:

I think it's time we truly evaluate whether cones are down-right un safe.  They offer zero crowd control and end up scattered about the course.  In the A race on Saturday, a cone  was spit out of a back wheel and into Seth Hosmer's front wheel resulting in an ugly crash that also took out Mike Beno.



In the same race, I was being lapped by Chris Sheppard and two River City Riders were coming at us head-on in the wrong lane.  I want to be clear that they were not cheating or cutting the course in any way, they simply lost track of the maze of cones and following what they thought was the course.



Cones also allow riders to ride outside of their abilities when they see clean dirt beyond the cone lined barrier.  I'm not advocating we tape the entire course, but taping the danger spots is a good first step.

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org






Joel Morrissette

2008-10-29

Between the Beginners and Cs at Rainier the left turn just after the start
chute got changed from cones to tape and it made a big difference. Perhaps
the most noticeable change was that the darned thing was just easier to
see. I've missed several corners by a cone or two this season because I
just couldn't see them through traffic just beyond a small rise or whatnot.
I do appreciate that tape is much more labor-intensive than cones and really
adds to setup time, but I think the benefits are worth it.

-Joel

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Don Leet wrote:

> I would concur about cones. A cone took out the top two racers in the
> 2007 world ccx championships. I hit a cone at the last thrilla race
> and broke a couple of ribs, (that is why I am not laughing so much at
> the cross crusades). On sat coming out of the barn during the A race
> I stood where the cones were to keep the racers from crossing over to
> oncoming traffic, More tape less cones.
> Don Leet
> On Oct 29, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Terry Keele wrote:
>
> > I think it's time we truly evaluate whether cones are down-right un
> > safe. They offer zero crowd control and end up scattered about the
> > course. In the A race on Saturday, a cone was spit out of a back
> > wheel and into Seth Hosmer's front wheel resulting in an ugly crash
> > that also took out Mike Beno.
> >
> > In the same race, I was being lapped by Chris Sheppard and two River
> > City Riders were coming at us head-on in the wrong lane. I want to
> > be clear that they were not cheating or cutting the course in any
> > way, they simply lost track of the maze of cones and following what
> > they thought was the course.
> >
> > Cones also allow riders to ride outside of their abilities when they
> > see clean dirt beyond the cone lined barrier. I'm not advocating we
> > tape the entire course, but taping the danger spots is a good first
> > step.
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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>

--
__o "It never gets easier,
_ \<_ you just go faster."
(_)/(_) -- Greg LeMond


Melissa Boyd

2008-10-29

I don't know what the right solution is for course marking, but I personally
prefer the cones to the rebar or hard-plastic posts I have seen at some
races. I nearly skewered myself on one, and it seems that they have a lot
more potential for serious injury than a plastic cone.

Melissa

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Seth Hosmer wrote:

> While we are on the topic of 'cross course safety, it is worth mentioning
> that the cones should probably be replaced with fencing or tape in some
> places. This would hopefully prevent potential problems with spectators.
>
> In addition, the cones have a tendency to get ridden over and bumped into
> the course which can - and does - cause crashes.
>
> Seth Hosmer, DC, CSCS
> Health & Performance Chiropractic
> www.HPChiro.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


c.rycewicz@comcast.net

2008-10-29

The cones are always getting bumped and routinely end up all over the course, often times on the preferred lines through corners.

--
Christopher A. Rycewicz
c.rycewicz@comcast.net

-------------- Original message --------------
From: Seth Hosmer

> While we are on the topic of 'cross course safety, it is worth mentioning that
> the cones should probably be replaced with fencing or tape in some places. This
> would hopefully prevent potential problems with spectators.
>
> In addition, the cones have a tendency to get ridden over and bumped into the
> course which can - and does - cause crashes.
>
> Seth Hosmer, DC, CSCS
> Health & Performance Chiropractic
> www.HPChiro.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Terry Keele

2008-10-29

Don. Thanks for being there. I left the part out where you verbaly alerted the two riders that they were in the wrong lane. You saved our collective bacon.


Erik Voldengen

2008-10-29

Friends that have raced from out of town do not respect cones at all, and
claim cones only mark suggested course. I don't feel the same way, but they
all sure seem to hate cones.

But now that all those cones have been purchased, it's a greener solution!
I wonder how much of that plastic course tape goes into the nation's land
fills in the course of a single cyclocross season. Probably enough to fill
20 Cross Crusade RVs. I don't think I've ever seen a race gather up the
course tape for reuse next time.

-Erik

On Wed, Oct 29, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Terry Keele wrote:

> I think it's time we truly evaluate whether cones are down-right un safe.
> They offer zero crowd control and end up scattered about the course. In
> the A race on Saturday, a cone was spit out of a back wheel and into Seth
> Hosmer's front wheel resulting in an ugly crash that also took out Mike
> Beno.
>
> In the same race, I was being lapped by Chris Sheppard and two River City
> Riders were coming at us head-on in the wrong lane. I want to be clear that
> they were not cheating or cutting the course in any way, they simply lost
> track of the maze of cones and following what they thought was the course.
>
> Cones also allow riders to ride outside of their abilities when they see
> clean dirt beyond the cone lined barrier. I'm not advocating we tape the
> entire course, but taping the danger spots is a good first step.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Don Leet

2008-10-29

I would concur about cones. A cone took out the top two racers in the
2007 world ccx championships. I hit a cone at the last thrilla race
and broke a couple of ribs, (that is why I am not laughing so much at
the cross crusades). On sat coming out of the barn during the A race
I stood where the cones were to keep the racers from crossing over to
oncoming traffic, More tape less cones.
Don Leet
On Oct 29, 2008, at 10:48 AM, Terry Keele wrote:

> I think it's time we truly evaluate whether cones are down-right un
> safe. They offer zero crowd control and end up scattered about the
> course. In the A race on Saturday, a cone was spit out of a back
> wheel and into Seth Hosmer's front wheel resulting in an ugly crash
> that also took out Mike Beno.
>
> In the same race, I was being lapped by Chris Sheppard and two River
> City Riders were coming at us head-on in the wrong lane. I want to
> be clear that they were not cheating or cutting the course in any
> way, they simply lost track of the maze of cones and following what
> they thought was the course.
>
> Cones also allow riders to ride outside of their abilities when they
> see clean dirt beyond the cone lined barrier. I'm not advocating we
> tape the entire course, but taping the danger spots is a good first
> step.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Seth Hosmer

2008-10-29

While we are on the topic of 'cross course safety, it is worth mentioning that the cones should probably be replaced with fencing or tape in some places. This would hopefully prevent potential problems with spectators.

In addition, the cones have a tendency to get ridden over and bumped into the course which can - and does - cause crashes.

Seth Hosmer, DC, CSCS
Health & Performance Chiropractic
www.HPChiro.com


Terry Keele

2008-10-29

I think it's time we truly evaluate whether cones are down-right un safe. They offer zero crowd control and end up scattered about the course. In the A race on Saturday, a cone was spit out of a back wheel and into Seth Hosmer's front wheel resulting in an ugly crash that also took out Mike Beno.

In the same race, I was being lapped by Chris Sheppard and two River City Riders were coming at us head-on in the wrong lane. I want to be clear that they were not cheating or cutting the course in any way, they simply lost track of the maze of cones and following what they thought was the course.

Cones also allow riders to ride outside of their abilities when they see clean dirt beyond the cone lined barrier. I'm not advocating we tape the entire course, but taping the danger spots is a good first step.