Re: Course safety and cones

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

2008-10-29

Forgive my inability to reason well as I spent five hours doing trail work
today and have not taken my pain meds yet.
I think tape can and does get reused, depending on the series situation as
Will pointed out. The idea of Pennant Flags from Gina is a great idea in
some places. That can for sure be used many times over. I feel the cones
are of great use in zones where there is good sight lines and do not confuse
riders because of course double back etc. I strongly think that tape (that
really gives or breaks away) is what should be used when marking the course
where riders are likely to blow off the course. Having helped out with
setting up some races, I can say that all the methods of marking the course
take alot of time to set up and tear down. I wonder if the Crusade would be
open to some volunteers offering to help with set up? I wonder if there
would be volunteers willing to do that and also some willing to help with
tear down? If it takes more time to set up a course that everyone thinks is
marked better, it will take additional time to take it apart. This is
especially true if the organization is trying to save tape for reuse. Andy
and Brad know me and I will help them if they feel they need another body.
Anyone else want to offer to get up EARLY and stay LATE? Oh yeah! Remember
to set clocks back an hour this weekend.... more darkness for set up and
tear down.
Thanks Crusade. You guys are doing a great job on the courses overall.
Nothing is ever perfect, but I have only gotten confused four or five times
this season. I think that was because I was spending too much time in our
basement (lowlander). I am going to start hanging out on the second floor
as an altitude training strategy and this should not only make me stronger,
but sharpen my mind so I do not get confused by cones and cowbell.
*the first part of this message was serious about tape, cones, helping out
etc. the last part about the basement and second floor was "a joke" so if
you want to rip me apart for joking, go ahead. Is part of training actually
riding the bike? If so I better get started!
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "will"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 3:28 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Course safety and cones

>I did want to advocate for Kris Schamp & Portland Racing that we undid tape
>after each short track race and re-used it for the whole series. But with
>that said, cones & tape have caused/allowed for their fair-share of
>accidents.
>
> I totally agree that a combination of both is a great idea especially
> where we think racers might "double-back" near each other. But more than
> anywhere else, I would really like to see the tape at the sections of the
> course where foot-traffic by pedestrians is the highest. During short
> track, we taped a good chunk of pavement off and had essenitally corssing
> guards meter when people could go.
>
> It's really frustrating to see pedestrians (including those who are/have
> raced) undersestimating the speed of oncoming riders and jump out to cross
> the course. Case in point, at Villebois...so many folks were walking out
> in front of racers as they came up out of the gravel pit onto the pavement
> for the sprint to the line. Lots of the racers are carrying speed or
> dropping the hammer to gain places...and I still saw lots of close calls
> from racers and fans alike.
>
> my $0.02
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I did want to advocate for Kris Schamp & Portland Racing that we undid tape after each short track race and re-used it for the whole series. But with that said, cones & tape have caused/allowed for their fair-share of accidents.

I totally agree that a combination of both is a great idea especially where we think racers might "double-back" near each other. But more than anywhere else, I would really like to see the tape at the sections of the course where foot-traffic by pedestrians is the highest. During short track, we taped a good chunk of pavement off and had essenitally corssing guards meter when people could go.

It's really frustrating to see pedestrians (including those who are/have raced) undersestimating the speed of oncoming riders and jump out to cross the course. Case in point, at Villebois...so many folks were walking out in front of racers as they came up out of the gravel pit onto the pavement for the sprint to the line. Lots of the racers are carrying speed or dropping the hammer to gain places...and I still saw lots of close calls from racers and fans alike.

my $0.02


Dan H

2008-10-29

Speaking of sticks, I'm reminded of a race I once did in WA that had a downhill section lined on both sides with small trees about an inch in diameter that had been hacked off at an angle about a foot off the ground so they stuck up like Viet Nam booby trap pongee sticks. I didn't go as fast as I could have because the consequences of losing control there would have been dire.

I think the safest course markers would be a holographic projection of a fence or even an imaginary crowd lining the course cheering on the riders the whole way.

I know we have been all over the "racing could be dangerous" thing. You pays your money and takes your chances.
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Cyclist
To: obra
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2008 1:09 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Course safety and cones

I once saw someone take out tape & wood "sticks" (like those used in Astoria on Saturday in the downhill section, by the jump) the tape got all tangled up in his wheels and the sticks caused some serious injury. I don't know the "Best" solution but it's probably some combination of cones, tape, plastic tubing, flags etc, etc...I just know I hate those wood sticks when I see them.

On 10/29/08, Brian Johnson wrote:
I agree that cones do get knocked about and I've hit a few, popping
them up into my legs or into the rear wheel. I've never suffered
injury or crash because of a cone.

At a 2007 MTB short track I DID hit a stake (rebar? plastic pipe?)
with my knee. That left a lump and even a year later, if I put a
sheering pressure on just the right place I'm treated to a twinge of
pain. (Makes me think I chipped the bone, maybe?)

I also agree with Erik V.-- tape is wasteful. I never see that stuff
get collected and I've actually seen it get caught in wheels and
wound up around the hubs.

So, to me, while neither tape or cones are the perfect solution, I
think that cones are somewhat better in the long run.

Brian J.

* * *

My father asks "Do you live here or ride a bike?"

liveorridebikes.blogspot.com

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NW Cyclist

2008-10-29

I once saw someone take out tape & wood "sticks" (like those used in Astoria
on Saturday in the downhill section, by the jump) the tape got all tangled
up in his wheels and the sticks caused some serious injury. I don't know
the "Best" solution but it's probably some combination of cones, tape,
plastic tubing, flags etc, etc...I just know I hate those wood sticks when I
see them.

On 10/29/08, Brian Johnson wrote:
>
> I agree that cones do get knocked about and I've hit a few, popping
> them up into my legs or into the rear wheel. I've never suffered
> injury or crash because of a cone.
>
> At a 2007 MTB short track I DID hit a stake (rebar? plastic pipe?)
> with my knee. That left a lump and even a year later, if I put a
> sheering pressure on just the right place I'm treated to a twinge of
> pain. (Makes me think I chipped the bone, maybe?)
>
> I also agree with Erik V.-- tape is wasteful. I never see that stuff
> get collected and I've actually seen it get caught in wheels and
> wound up around the hubs.
>
> So, to me, while neither tape or cones are the perfect solution, I
> think that cones are somewhat better in the long run.
>
> Brian J.
>
>
>
> * * *
>
> My father asks "Do you live here or ride a bike?"
>
> liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>


Brian Johnson

2008-10-29

I agree that cones do get knocked about and I've hit a few, popping
them up into my legs or into the rear wheel. I've never suffered
injury or crash because of a cone.

At a 2007 MTB short track I DID hit a stake (rebar? plastic pipe?)
with my knee. That left a lump and even a year later, if I put a
sheering pressure on just the right place I'm treated to a twinge of
pain. (Makes me think I chipped the bone, maybe?)

I also agree with Erik V.-- tape is wasteful. I never see that stuff
get collected and I've actually seen it get caught in wheels and
wound up around the hubs.

So, to me, while neither tape or cones are the perfect solution, I
think that cones are somewhat better in the long run.

Brian J.

* * *

My father asks "Do you live here or ride a bike?"

liveorridebikes.blogspot.com