From velonews

scott hill

2008-11-25

one reason they cut those sports was because they take forever. they wasted so much olympic coverage on baseball this year, the games were taking 5+hours. there were several days that cycling did not air because baseball ran over. it was really frustrating.
 
scott

--- On Tue, 11/25/08, Mark J. Ginsberg wrote:

From: Mark J. Ginsberg
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 3:28 PM

Jet 9,

sorry to hear you don't know how to drink while riding, most cross riders call drinking with a bicycle  "warm up".

:-)

Mark

--- On Tue, 11/25/08, Jet 9 wrote:

From: Jet 9
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews
To: "'Randy Dreiling'" , obra@list.obra.org
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 1:07 PM

The reason they cut baseball & softball…Anything you can  smoke and drink while doing….ain’t a sport
 

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Randy Dreiling
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:36 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews
 

They just cut Baseball and Softball from the olympics so it'll be hard to see them  adding Cx
 
Randy Dreiling

 

 

From: Christopher Dyer Augustus
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:24:40 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews

It's true there's lots of sports in the summer and winter olympics that don't really qualify as being particularly international in their popularity. Badminton, curling, biathlon. Bunches of others too, I'm sure.

 

I don't really think that's the problem for Cx not being in the winter games. I think the problem is that in order to be in the winter games, it has to be a winter event. Just because we can race cross in the winter, doesn't mean we need winter conditions to do it. That's one of the major criteria for inclusion in the winter olympics. I mean, if all it took was the ability to do a sport in the winter, they could move any of the indoor summer games like tae kwan do or table tennis to the winter olympics.

 

But I'm cool with that. I think it's great that cross is still somewhat of a fringe thing, full of crazy people totally obsessed with this weird thing that most people just don't understand at all. We don't need the olympics.
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Matthew Rider

2008-11-25

This just begs for this
picture
...

...or something like
this
.

2008/11/25 Jet 9

> *The reason they cut baseball & softball…Anything you can smoke and
> drink while doing….ain't a sport*
>
> * *
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Randy Dreiling
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:36 PM
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews
>
>
>
> They just cut Baseball and Softball from the olympics so it'll be hard to
> see them adding Cx
>
>
> Randy Dreiling
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Christopher Dyer Augustus
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:24:40 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews
>
> It's true there's lots of sports in the summer and winter olympics that
> don't really qualify as being particularly international in their
> popularity. Badminton, curling, biathlon. Bunches of others too, I'm sure.
>
>
>
> I don't really think that's the problem for Cx not being in the winter
> games. I think the problem is that in order to be in the winter games, it
> has to be a winter event. Just because we can race cross in the winter,
> doesn't mean we need winter conditions to do it. That's one of the major
> criteria for inclusion in the winter olympics. I mean, if all it took was
> the ability to do a sport in the winter, they could move any of the indoor
> summer games like tae kwan do or table tennis to the winter olympics.
>
>
>
> But I'm cool with that. I think it's great that cross is still somewhat of
> a fringe thing, full of crazy people totally obsessed with this weird thing
> that most people just don't understand at all. We don't need the olympics.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


Mark J. Ginsberg

2008-11-25

Jet 9,

sorry to hear you don't know how to drink while riding, most cross riders call drinking with a bicycle  "warm up".

:-)

Mark

--- On Tue, 11/25/08, Jet 9 wrote:
From: Jet 9
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews
To: "'Randy Dreiling'" , obra@list.obra.org
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 1:07 PM


The reason they cut baseball & softball…Anything
you can  smoke and drink while doing….ain’t a sport

 

From:
obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Randy
Dreiling

Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:36 PM

To: obra@list.obra.org

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews

 

They just cut Baseball and Softball from the olympics so
it'll be hard to see them  adding Cx

 

Randy Dreiling

 

 

From: Christopher Dyer
Augustus

To: obra@list.obra.org

Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:24:40 PM

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews

It's true there's lots of sports in the summer and winter olympics that don't
really qualify as being particularly international in their popularity.
Badminton, curling, biathlon. Bunches of others too, I'm sure.

 

I don't really think that's the problem for Cx not being in
the winter games. I think the problem is that in order to be in the winter
games, it has to be a winter event. Just because we can race cross in the winter,
doesn't mean we need winter conditions to do it. That's one of the major
criteria for inclusion in the winter olympics. I mean, if all it took was the
ability to do a sport in the winter, they could move any of the indoor summer
games like tae kwan do or table tennis to the winter olympics.

 

But I'm cool with that. I think it's great that cross is
still somewhat of a fringe thing, full of crazy people totally obsessed with
this weird thing that most people just don't understand at all. We don't need the
olympics.

 

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Randy Dreiling

2008-11-25

 
"drink while doing….ain’t a sport"
Seems to me I have seen people drinking while racing at an Cx race a number of times and in races of all skill levels from beginners to Pro's...just saying
 
From:obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Randy Dreiling
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:36 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews
 
They just cut Baseball and Softball from the olympics so it'll be hard to see them  adding Cx
 
Randy Dreiling
 
 

________________________________

From:Christopher Dyer Augustus
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:24:40 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews

It's true there's lots of sports in the summer and winter olympics that don't really qualify as being particularly international in their popularity. Badminton, curling, biathlon. Bunches of others too, I'm sure.
 
I don't really think that's the problem for Cx not being in the winter games. I think the problem is that in order to be in the winter games, it has to be a winter event. Just because we can race cross in the winter, doesn't mean we need winter conditions to do it. That's one of the major criteria for inclusion in the winter olympics. I mean, if all it took was the ability to do a sport in the winter, they could move any of the indoor summer games like tae kwan do or table tennis to the winter olympics.
 
But I'm cool with that. I think it's great that cross is still somewhat of a fringe thing, full of crazy people totally obsessed with this weird thing that most people just don't understand at all. We don't need the olympics.


Jet 9

2008-11-25

The reason they cut baseball & softball.Anything you can smoke and drink
while doing..ain't a sport

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Randy Dreiling
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:36 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews

They just cut Baseball and Softball from the olympics so it'll be hard to
see them adding Cx

Randy Dreiling

_____

From: Christopher Dyer Augustus
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:24:40 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews

It's true there's lots of sports in the summer and winter olympics that
don't really qualify as being particularly international in their
popularity. Badminton, curling, biathlon. Bunches of others too, I'm sure.

I don't really think that's the problem for Cx not being in the winter
games. I think the problem is that in order to be in the winter games, it
has to be a winter event. Just because we can race cross in the winter,
doesn't mean we need winter conditions to do it. That's one of the major
criteria for inclusion in the winter olympics. I mean, if all it took was
the ability to do a sport in the winter, they could move any of the indoor
summer games like tae kwan do or table tennis to the winter olympics.

But I'm cool with that. I think it's great that cross is still somewhat of a
fringe thing, full of crazy people totally obsessed with this weird thing
that most people just don't understand at all. We don't need the olympics.


Randy Dreiling

2008-11-25

They just cut Baseball and Softball from the olympics so it'll be hard to see them  adding Cx
 Randy Dreiling

________________________________
From: Christopher Dyer Augustus
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 12:24:40 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] From velonews

It's true there's lots of sports in the summer and winter olympics that don't really qualify as being particularly international in their popularity. Badminton, curling, biathlon. Bunches of others too, I'm sure.

I don't really think that's the problem for Cx not being in the winter games. I think the problem is that in order to be in the winter games, it has to be a winter event. Just because we can race cross in the winter, doesn't mean we need winter conditions to do it. That's one of the major criteria for inclusion in the winter olympics. I mean, if all it took was the ability to do a sport in the winter, they could move any of the indoor summer games like tae kwan do or table tennis to the winter olympics.

But I'm cool with that. I think it's great that cross is still somewhat of a fringe thing, full of crazy people totally obsessed with this weird thing that most people just don't understand at all. We don't need the olympics.


Christopher Dyer Augustus

2008-11-25

It's true there's lots of sports in the summer and winter olympics that
don't really qualify as being particularly international in their
popularity. Badminton, curling, biathlon. Bunches of others too, I'm sure.
I don't really think that's the problem for Cx not being in the winter
games. I think the problem is that in order to be in the winter games, it
has to be a winter event. Just because we can race cross in the winter,
doesn't mean we need winter conditions to do it. That's one of the major
criteria for inclusion in the winter olympics. I mean, if all it took was
the ability to do a sport in the winter, they could move any of the indoor
summer games like tae kwan do or table tennis to the winter olympics.

But I'm cool with that. I think it's great that cross is still somewhat of a
fringe thing, full of crazy people totally obsessed with this weird thing
that most people just don't understand at all. We don't need the olympics.


Candi Murray

2008-11-25

Dear Explainer dude,
I know that most of us talk as if this time of year is known as the
?off-season,? but for some of us ? and me in particular ? this is the height
of the cycling season. I love ?cross. When I ride on the road, I?m thinking
of cyclocross; when I ride my mountain bike it?s because I?m working on my
?cross technique.

Well, there have always been a couple of things that have bothered me when
it comes to cyclocross.

One is: why isn?t cyclocross an Olympic event? It seems to me that it would
be the perfect way for cycling to get into the Winter Olympics. It has a
huge fan base in Europe and no one would disagree that it?s growing here in
the States. How come the UCI doesn?t push for it?

Two, why doesn?t the UCI allow riders to use disc brakes in cyclocross? I
use ?em and I love ?em, but you never see riders like Sven Nys or the
biggies using them. As I understand it, the UCI has banned them from ?cross.
How come?
Jay Whorton
Detroit, Michigan

Dear Jay,
You?ve hit upon two questions that have bothered us for a long, long time,
so we appreciate your letter.

First, let?s tackle the Olympics question. To start, the International
Olympic Committee has some pretty stringent requirements for the
introduction of new sports. Both the Summer and Winter Games have
established upper limits on the number of events that can be included.

IOC president Jacques Rogge has made it clear that the organization?s policy
generally dictates that if a new event is to be included in the Games, an
existing sport needs to drop out.

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?For every novelty, we will need to give up a discipline,? Rogge said in
2004. ?Nothing can be added.?

We?ve seen that occur in the past, with the elimination of some track events
? the women?s 500-meter time trial, among others ? in favor of the inclusion
of BMX in Beijing. BMX is a good example of a sport being added by allowing
the affected governing body to shuffle its deck and change the type of
disciplines contested within its own number of allocated slots.

But cycling doesn?t have any Winter Olympic slots to play with. The
inclusion of cyclocross in the Winter Olympics? schedule would, therefore,
have to come about by heavy lobbying on the part of the UCI, not only to
introduce a new sport, but to eliminate some other governing body?s
allocation.

Now folks, here in the U.S. we?ve just finished what some would define as
the longest presidential campaign in history. But as far as politics goes,
you ain?t seen nuthin? until you try to keep track of the goings on in the
Lausanne headquarters of the IOC. Indeed, if you want a look at the inner
workings of that august organization, I would recommend a good read in Vyv
Simsom?s 1992 exposé, The Lords of the Rings: Power, Money and Drugs in the
Modern Olympics. It?s full of amazing stories, some of which would make even
Machiavelli blush. I believe it?s out of print now, but you should be able
to track down a used copy on eBay or Amazon.

That said, cycling does have at least one major player in the upper halls of
power at the IOC in former UCI president Hein Verbruggen. Verbruggen, fresh
off of his chairmanship of the Coordination Commission for the Beijing
Games, has considerable pull in the IOC. Just don?t expect that he?ll be
cashing in any of his political capital to push the cause of cyclocross.

Back when he was president of the UCI, we would often ask him about the
Olympic prospects of the discipline, usually when we were watching events at
the world ?cross championships with him. He didn?t seem all that receptive.

Verbruggen argues that ?cross is still too geo-centric to fit in the ?global
strategy? of advancing all aspects of the sport.

?It?s often dominated by riders from one or two countries,? he said right
after another top-five Belgian sweep in Monopoli, Italy, in 2003. ?It has
increasing appeal in the U.S, maybe Canada, but it?s essentially limited to
a few European countries: Belgium being the first, with the Netherlands,
France, Italy and the Czech Republic. It really isn?t a global sport, now is
it??

A sound argument, we concede, but we do have an equally sound one-word
response: Curling?

What about them brakes?
As for the second issue, the absence of disc brakes in UCI-sanctioned
cyclocross events, the answer is an interesting ? albeit convoluted ? one.

First off, the UCI rules are really important to a small core of the upper
elements of the sport. There are maybe about 150 to 200 riders who are
directly affected by the rule. The rest of us can pretty much use any darn
brake we want to.

We?re pretty sure that everyone who has heard the
fingernails-across-a-chalkboard sounds coming off their rims after riding
through muck and mire and applying their brakes hasn?t thought of how cool
it would be to use disc brakes on a ?cross bike. It?s a solution that has
worked nicely for mountain bike racers, although some weight weenies still
opt for V-brakes when gram-counting is an issue.

By now, there are plenty of manufacturers willing and able to produce
disc-braked ?cross bikes, since there are plenty of them on the market. To
be sure, disc brakes are not the perfect solution to braking problems in
mud, but from our own experience, they?re a heck of a lot better than
cantilevers in the sloppiest conditions.

It ain't rocket science: Cannondale is one of several manufacturers who've
produced disc-equipped 'cross bikes.
Photo: CannondaleAdmittedly, disc braking systems are somewhat heavier, but
that is slowly changing as companies further refine the designs. We'd sure
like to see riders at the upper levels of the sport have the option.

Anyway, you can certainly use them in ?cross events here in the U.S., unless
it?s a UCI-sanctioned event. Actually, the UCI has not actually banned disc
brakes in cyclocross, it just hasn?t approved their use yet.

There are two factors at play here. One is regulatory and the other ? well,
it seems to depend on one personality in particular.

First off, UCI rules do require that new innovations be approved by the UCI
executive committee. Specifically, UCI rule 1.3.004 bars the use of any
innovation, whether it is ?used, worn or carried by any rider or other
license holder during a race (bicycles, equipment mounted on them,
accessories, helmets, clothing, means of communication, etc.)? without prior
approval of that panel.

The idea has been floated a couple of times, but it?s been shot down,
largely on the recommendations of the UCI?s ?technical consultant? Jean
Wauthier. Wauthier, whose technical expertise in cycling comes from his
background in industrial ergonomics, is also the guy who advanced the rule
changes that shot down some of Graeme Obree?s innovative approaches to time
trialing.

It was Wauthier, for example, who proposed a blanket rule limiting the
distance of handlebar extensions in an effort to eliminate the so-called
?Superman? position. Whether that was a laudable goal or not, his approach
was arguably off-the-mark. By adopting a uniform standard, with no allowance
for the rider?s height, the net result was that short riders still had
access to what amounted to the Superman position, while taller riders found
themselves scrunched up in something akin to the fetal position while racing
against the clock.

Wauthier is also the guy who killed Cinelli?s ?Spinaci? bars, those small
extensions that allowed road riders to assume a more aero position while
trying to escape on a break. Again, the goal may, or may not, have been
valid, but the result is, of course, that we now see riders using their
shift cables ? or nothing at all ? to achieve the same position.

You might guess by now that we?re not huge fans of Mr. Wauthier. We?ve tried
interviewing him and it?s nearly impossible to do so. He just doesn?t make a
lot of sense from the technical side of things. At first, we thought that
perhaps it was because of the language barrier, so we brought along a
French-speaking colleague with a strong background in the technical side of
cycling. Nope, it didn?t help. After a 30-minute interview in French, our
associate looked at us and said, ?I have no idea what the hell the guy?s
been talking about.?

So, it may just be that the UCI regs in general and Wauthier in particular
are just two more hurdles ?crossers will have to get over before we can see
discs make their way into the top-levels of cyclocross.

More news from the 'cross committee
The good news is that one ? or both - of those hurdles may soon be cleared.
According to American Adam Myerson, a member of the UCI's cyclocross
commission, there is a movement afoot to allow the use of discs in 'cross.
Myerson reports that the proposal has been largely driven by manufacturers,
and from MTB riders who are also racing 'cross and prefer disc brakes.

The UCI 'cross commission voted to allow disc brakes. Now the ball is in the
management committee?s court. The management committee will meet again in
January during the world cyclocross championships and the disc brake
question is on the agenda. For them to approve it, they would have to find a
way to separate out a rule allowing for disc brakes in 'cross but not for
the road, or decide to allow disc brakes on the road as well.

If approved, you could see disc brakes in UCI events as soon as next season.
Candi