KO Kevin

Everyone has their opinions, but I always put my headlamp on flash mode
when riding on city streets. The busier the street, the more I rely on
my flasher to be seen. I don't use it to annoy anyone, and if I think
it is "blinding" an oncoming pedestrian I cover it with my hand until we
pass. I use the flash mode to be seen by car drivers at intersections,
at driveway entrances and in their rear and side-view mirrors before
right hooking me. I feel as vulnerable riding without a flasher in
traffic as I do riding without a helmet. In remote locations and on
dedicated MUPs, I don't find a need to use the flash mode, but others
may, and it doesn't bother me.

There are a lot of things that annoy the hell out of me, but bicycles
with lights is not one of them.

Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Fergus
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:39 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

Flashing headlights are obnoxious.

Maybe on a remote road without other pedestrians or cyclists going in
the other direction, they have a place.

In town, they degrade cycling for others.

Fergus
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Aaron Leritz

Right on Steve! I actually had a motorist stop me to tell me how great my
front flasher was in conjunction with my head light. It was the flasher that
got his attention so he did not turn in front of me, not my solid beam. I
would not ride in the dark without one now.

Just keep your really bright lights at a slightly declined angle on the road
so they blind cars or oncoming cyclists on the path.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Long, Steve
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:48 AM
To: Fergus; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

Well that totally defeats the purpose of a flashing headlight. Why would
anyone need one on a remote road? I put one of my headlights in flashing
mode as it either turns a little light or starts to get dark so I'll be
seen by traffic better. Totally dark, both my lights are on bright mode.
Other cyclists, for the most part, understand this and put up with the
annoyance. Afterall, their's is flashing too.
What's more obnoxious, is not having a light that can be put in steady
on mode for lighting up a cyclist's path. Many riders I see only have a
cheap little flasher in the front. That's just plain stupid if they are
riding in the dark.

I have commuted for several years in the darkest months of winter and I
am here to report that visibility by traffic is of a VERY high concern.
You need to get driver's attention out there because, after all, they
don't respect a bicycle.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Fergus
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:39 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

Flashing headlights are obnoxious.

Maybe on a remote road without other pedestrians or cyclists going in
the other direction, they have a place.

In town, they degrade cycling for others.

Fergus
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Matthew Klahn

You know I was thinking about this last night while riding home, and
no bike light that I've ever seen (including super bright LEDs) are
nearly as bright as the headlights of any of the cars in oncoming
traffic. Blinking or no, it is much more imparing to have two
headlights from a car coming at you than a single, small bike light.
Yet somehow, we allmanagr to drive around without being blinded to the
point that we're playing bumper cars...

--
Matthew Klahn

On Dec 5, 2008, at 8:47 AM, "Long, Steve"
wrote:

> Well that totally defeats the purpose of a flashing headlight. Why
> would
> anyone need one on a remote road? I put one of my headlights in
> flashing
> mode as it either turns a little light or starts to get dark so I'll
> be
> seen by traffic better. Totally dark, both my lights are on bright
> mode.
> Other cyclists, for the most part, understand this and put up with the
> annoyance. Afterall, their's is flashing too.
> What's more obnoxious, is not having a light that can be put in steady
> on mode for lighting up a cyclist's path. Many riders I see only
> have a
> cheap little flasher in the front. That's just plain stupid if they
> are
> riding in the dark.
>
> I have commuted for several years in the darkest months of winter
> and I
> am here to report that visibility by traffic is of a VERY high
> concern.
> You need to get driver's attention out there because, after all, they
> don't respect a bicycle.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On
> Behalf Of Fergus
> Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:39 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
>
> Flashing headlights are obnoxious.
>
> Maybe on a remote road without other pedestrians or cyclists going in
> the other direction, they have a place.
>
> In town, they degrade cycling for others.
>
> Fergus
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Long, Steve

Well that totally defeats the purpose of a flashing headlight. Why would
anyone need one on a remote road? I put one of my headlights in flashing
mode as it either turns a little light or starts to get dark so I'll be
seen by traffic better. Totally dark, both my lights are on bright mode.
Other cyclists, for the most part, understand this and put up with the
annoyance. Afterall, their's is flashing too.
What's more obnoxious, is not having a light that can be put in steady
on mode for lighting up a cyclist's path. Many riders I see only have a
cheap little flasher in the front. That's just plain stupid if they are
riding in the dark.

I have commuted for several years in the darkest months of winter and I
am here to report that visibility by traffic is of a VERY high concern.
You need to get driver's attention out there because, after all, they
don't respect a bicycle.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Fergus
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 8:39 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

Flashing headlights are obnoxious.

Maybe on a remote road without other pedestrians or cyclists going in
the other direction, they have a place.

In town, they degrade cycling for others.

Fergus
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Fergus

Flashing headlights are obnoxious.

Maybe on a remote road without other pedestrians or cyclists going in
the other direction, they have a place.

In town, they degrade cycling for others.

Fergus

Jet 9

Oh yea......I ran over a live duck (both wheels) on the "multi Use trail"
in the dark with a 20w light showing the way, (he dodged left, I zigged
right, he zagged back right, I ran over him) didn't go down, didn't kill the
duck...thank God for mad mountain bike skills!!

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Long, Steve
Sent: Friday, December 05, 2008 7:49 AM
To: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com; Matthew Klahn
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

That's just ridiculous.
Anybody that would say you don't need the kind of light, that one of the
new LEDs can provide, for commuting, doesn't care much about their
safety.
I have a friend that didn't want to spend much on a light and one
morning early, before dawn, he ran over a raccoon carcus or something
and went down. He punctured a lung and broke several ribs. There was a
hole in his chest for about a year. Events like that can be prevented by
spending enough money to be able to see what you are approaching as
compared to seeing what you ARE going to hit.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of john
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:54 PM
To: Matthew Klahn
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

"> Don't say that people shouldn't commute with bright
> LED lights; that's just silly. "

I Didn't say that. And you may think its silly until it has to be
regulated.

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Matthew Klahn wrote:

> From: Matthew Klahn
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
> To: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 4:18 PM OK, I was going to stay out
> of this, but this comes up a lot when talking about lights.
>
> There are two uses to lights:
>
> 1) To be seen by cars
> 2) To see the terrain you are traveling over
>
> Both uses are legitimate, and you need to figure out what your own
> needs are. If you need a light to see debris on the streets, leave
> piles, pot holes, etc. as you are commuting, then by all means get a
> bright LED light and point it at the street. If you want to be seen by

> traffic, then buy smaller, cheap LED lights and place them around your

> bicycle in many different locations, etc.
>
> Don't say that people shouldn't commute with bright LED lights; that's

> just silly. Let them decide if they need that kind of bright light for

> their own commuting. The point that it can be too bright to look at
> directly is well taken, but solved if the riders point the light at
> the street to, you know, see where they are going.
>
>
> Matthew Klahn
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:56 PM, john wrote:
>
> > if you ride in wood or on dark roads, by all means get
> really bright and super expensive light. For as bright and dangerous
> (to others) as those lights are (i've been literally blinded and
> nearly crashed many times...) they have a small area and therefore can

> appear only as a bright dot or blinking bright dot that is
> disconcerting and confusing with implied smugness also seen in suv
> drivers using cellphones (said with some exaggeration :). and Helmet
> mounted lights should be baned from the streets, or at least, for
> God's sake, stop looking at me as i ride by.
> >
> > I ride with two inexpensive planet bike or cateyes,
> simply use rechargeable batteries. The one (3-4 years old now), has
> a pretty big reflector, and if you turn on your light walk down the
> street and turn around and look at your parked bicycle, its nicely
> visible as a bigger "dot" than most. Add two, and you have even
> bigger "dots", and also a lot less likely to be caught lightless. And

> although its not insanely bright, Its bright enough to easily allow a
> ride on lief ericson in the
> dark. Its also gone 10-20 hours before a required
> recharge.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Gregory Leblanc
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Gregory Leblanc
>
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for
> Headlights
> >> To: "OBRA List"
>
> >> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:43 PM
> >> 2008/12/4 Phreadi :
> >>> ...or with some lights, you get nowhere near
> what you
> >> should be getting for
> >>> what you paid for it.
> >>> I just recently queried the list and ended up
> picking
> >> up a single-beam,
> >>> minewt USB light w/ a tiny Li-ION batter to
> have as a
> >> helmet mounted for
> >>> commuting, for 100 bucks.
> >>> It's beam is indestinguishable from my 250
> dollar
> >> cateye tripleshot, a very
> >>> huge and heavy 3-beam LED, with a very heaving
> NiMH
> >> battery. Granted it's a
> >>> 2 year old design and the minewt USB is brand
> new, but
> >> c'mon...a 3-beam
> >>> light should not be that dim compared to any
> new
> >> single LED lamp in my book.
> >>
> >> Well, it might be time to change books, then. In
> the past
> >> 2 years,
> >> light output from LEDs really has tripled at the
> same
> >> power-point, if
> >> not more. Electronics to efficiently drive LEDs
> have also
> >> gotten a
> >> lot better in the past 2 years, and the prices
> have come
> >> down on both
> >> the electronics and the LEDs themselves. I fully
> expect
> >> this sort of
> >> evolution in bicycle lights to continue for at
> least
> >> another 3 years,
> >> on the LED front. Get something now that's
> Good
> >> Enough, but don't
> >> expect to buy a bunch of expensive battery packs
> for it, as
> >> by the
> >> time you wear one out, there will be something
> newer,
> >> cheaper, and
> >> that throws more light where you need it.
> >> Greg
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Long, Steve

That's just ridiculous.
Anybody that would say you don't need the kind of light, that one of the
new LEDs can provide, for commuting, doesn't care much about their
safety.
I have a friend that didn't want to spend much on a light and one
morning early, before dawn, he ran over a raccoon carcus or something
and went down. He punctured a lung and broke several ribs. There was a
hole in his chest for about a year. Events like that can be prevented by
spending enough money to be able to see what you are approaching as
compared to seeing what you ARE going to hit.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of john
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 4:54 PM
To: Matthew Klahn
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

"> Don't say that people shouldn't commute with bright
> LED lights; that's just silly. "

I Didn't say that. And you may think its silly until it has to be
regulated.

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Matthew Klahn wrote:

> From: Matthew Klahn
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
> To: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 4:18 PM OK, I was going to stay out
> of this, but this comes up a lot when talking about lights.
>
> There are two uses to lights:
>
> 1) To be seen by cars
> 2) To see the terrain you are traveling over
>
> Both uses are legitimate, and you need to figure out what your own
> needs are. If you need a light to see debris on the streets, leave
> piles, pot holes, etc. as you are commuting, then by all means get a
> bright LED light and point it at the street. If you want to be seen by

> traffic, then buy smaller, cheap LED lights and place them around your

> bicycle in many different locations, etc.
>
> Don't say that people shouldn't commute with bright LED lights; that's

> just silly. Let them decide if they need that kind of bright light for

> their own commuting. The point that it can be too bright to look at
> directly is well taken, but solved if the riders point the light at
> the street to, you know, see where they are going.
>
>
> Matthew Klahn
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:56 PM, john wrote:
>
> > if you ride in wood or on dark roads, by all means get
> really bright and super expensive light. For as bright and dangerous
> (to others) as those lights are (i've been literally blinded and
> nearly crashed many times...) they have a small area and therefore can

> appear only as a bright dot or blinking bright dot that is
> disconcerting and confusing with implied smugness also seen in suv
> drivers using cellphones (said with some exaggeration :). and Helmet
> mounted lights should be baned from the streets, or at least, for
> God's sake, stop looking at me as i ride by.
> >
> > I ride with two inexpensive planet bike or cateyes,
> simply use rechargeable batteries. The one (3-4 years old now), has
> a pretty big reflector, and if you turn on your light walk down the
> street and turn around and look at your parked bicycle, its nicely
> visible as a bigger "dot" than most. Add two, and you have even
> bigger "dots", and also a lot less likely to be caught lightless. And

> although its not insanely bright, Its bright enough to easily allow a
> ride on lief ericson in the
> dark. Its also gone 10-20 hours before a required
> recharge.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Gregory Leblanc
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Gregory Leblanc
>
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for
> Headlights
> >> To: "OBRA List"
>
> >> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:43 PM
> >> 2008/12/4 Phreadi :
> >>> ...or with some lights, you get nowhere near
> what you
> >> should be getting for
> >>> what you paid for it.
> >>> I just recently queried the list and ended up
> picking
> >> up a single-beam,
> >>> minewt USB light w/ a tiny Li-ION batter to
> have as a
> >> helmet mounted for
> >>> commuting, for 100 bucks.
> >>> It's beam is indestinguishable from my 250
> dollar
> >> cateye tripleshot, a very
> >>> huge and heavy 3-beam LED, with a very heaving
> NiMH
> >> battery. Granted it's a
> >>> 2 year old design and the minewt USB is brand
> new, but
> >> c'mon...a 3-beam
> >>> light should not be that dim compared to any
> new
> >> single LED lamp in my book.
> >>
> >> Well, it might be time to change books, then. In
> the past
> >> 2 years,
> >> light output from LEDs really has tripled at the
> same
> >> power-point, if
> >> not more. Electronics to efficiently drive LEDs
> have also
> >> gotten a
> >> lot better in the past 2 years, and the prices
> have come
> >> down on both
> >> the electronics and the LEDs themselves. I fully
> expect
> >> this sort of
> >> evolution in bicycle lights to continue for at
> least
> >> another 3 years,
> >> on the LED front. Get something now that's
> Good
> >> Enough, but don't
> >> expect to buy a bunch of expensive battery packs
> for it, as
> >> by the
> >> time you wear one out, there will be something
> newer,
> >> cheaper, and
> >> that throws more light where you need it.
> >> Greg
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Matthew Klahn

*Ahem*

> and
> Helmet mounted lights should be baned from the streets, or
> at least, for God's sake, stop looking at me as i ride
> by.

If the person feels like they can see better with a bright helmet
mounted light, then that's their decision, and let them figure out
what is best for them. Just sayin'.

I think this will be as regulated as the super bright halogen
headlights that have been pretty popular for the last couple of years:
that is, not at all.

Matthew

On Dec 4, 2008, at 4:53 PM, john wrote:

> "> Don't say that people shouldn't commute with bright
>> LED lights; that's just silly. "
>
> I Didn't say that. And you may think its silly until it has to be
> regulated.
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Matthew Klahn wrote:
>
>> From: Matthew Klahn
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
>> To: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com
>> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
>> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 4:18 PM
>> OK, I was going to stay out of this, but this comes up a lot
>> when talking about lights.
>>
>> There are two uses to lights:
>>
>> 1) To be seen by cars
>> 2) To see the terrain you are traveling over
>>
>> Both uses are legitimate, and you need to figure out what
>> your own needs are. If you need a light to see debris on the
>> streets, leave piles, pot holes, etc. as you are commuting,
>> then by all means get a bright LED light and point it at the
>> street. If you want to be seen by traffic, then buy smaller,
>> cheap LED lights and place them around your bicycle in many
>> different locations, etc.
>>
>> Don't say that people shouldn't commute with bright
>> LED lights; that's just silly. Let them decide if they
>> need that kind of bright light for their own commuting. The
>> point that it can be too bright to look at directly is well
>> taken, but solved if the riders point the light at the
>> street to, you know, see where they are going.
>>
>>
>> Matthew Klahn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:56 PM, john wrote:
>>
>>> if you ride in wood or on dark roads, by all means get
>> really bright and super expensive light. For as bright and
>> dangerous (to others) as those lights are (i've been
>> literally blinded and nearly crashed many times...) they
>> have a small area and therefore can appear only as a bright
>> dot or blinking bright dot that is disconcerting and
>> confusing with implied smugness also seen in suv drivers
>> using cellphones (said with some exaggeration :). and
>> Helmet mounted lights should be baned from the streets, or
>> at least, for God's sake, stop looking at me as i ride
>> by.
>>>
>>> I ride with two inexpensive planet bike or cateyes,
>> simply use rechargeable batteries. The one (3-4 years old
>> now), has a pretty big reflector, and if you turn on your
>> light walk down the street and turn around and look at your
>> parked bicycle, its nicely visible as a bigger
>> "dot" than most. Add two, and you have even
>> bigger "dots", and also a lot less likely to be
>> caught lightless. And although its not insanely bright, Its
>> bright enough to easily allow a ride on lief ericson in the
>> dark. Its also gone 10-20 hours before a required
>> recharge.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Gregory Leblanc
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Gregory Leblanc
>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for
>> Headlights
>>>> To: "OBRA List"
>>
>>>> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:43 PM
>>>> 2008/12/4 Phreadi :
>>>>> ...or with some lights, you get nowhere near
>> what you
>>>> should be getting for
>>>>> what you paid for it.
>>>>> I just recently queried the list and ended up
>> picking
>>>> up a single-beam,
>>>>> minewt USB light w/ a tiny Li-ION batter to
>> have as a
>>>> helmet mounted for
>>>>> commuting, for 100 bucks.
>>>>> It's beam is indestinguishable from my 250
>> dollar
>>>> cateye tripleshot, a very
>>>>> huge and heavy 3-beam LED, with a very heaving
>> NiMH
>>>> battery. Granted it's a
>>>>> 2 year old design and the minewt USB is brand
>> new, but
>>>> c'mon...a 3-beam
>>>>> light should not be that dim compared to any
>> new
>>>> single LED lamp in my book.
>>>>
>>>> Well, it might be time to change books, then. In
>> the past
>>>> 2 years,
>>>> light output from LEDs really has tripled at the
>> same
>>>> power-point, if
>>>> not more. Electronics to efficiently drive LEDs
>> have also
>>>> gotten a
>>>> lot better in the past 2 years, and the prices
>> have come
>>>> down on both
>>>> the electronics and the LEDs themselves. I fully
>> expect
>>>> this sort of
>>>> evolution in bicycle lights to continue for at
>> least
>>>> another 3 years,
>>>> on the LED front. Get something now that's
>> Good
>>>> Enough, but don't
>>>> expect to buy a bunch of expensive battery packs
>> for it, as
>>>> by the
>>>> time you wear one out, there will be something
>> newer,
>>>> cheaper, and
>>>> that throws more light where you need it.
>>>> Greg
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OBRA mailing list
>>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OBRA mailing list
>>> obra@list.obra.org
>>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

john

"> Don't say that people shouldn't commute with bright
> LED lights; that's just silly. "

I Didn't say that. And you may think its silly until it has to be regulated.

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Matthew Klahn wrote:

> From: Matthew Klahn
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
> To: twotiretinker-obra2@yahoo.com
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 4:18 PM
> OK, I was going to stay out of this, but this comes up a lot
> when talking about lights.
>
> There are two uses to lights:
>
> 1) To be seen by cars
> 2) To see the terrain you are traveling over
>
> Both uses are legitimate, and you need to figure out what
> your own needs are. If you need a light to see debris on the
> streets, leave piles, pot holes, etc. as you are commuting,
> then by all means get a bright LED light and point it at the
> street. If you want to be seen by traffic, then buy smaller,
> cheap LED lights and place them around your bicycle in many
> different locations, etc.
>
> Don't say that people shouldn't commute with bright
> LED lights; that's just silly. Let them decide if they
> need that kind of bright light for their own commuting. The
> point that it can be too bright to look at directly is well
> taken, but solved if the riders point the light at the
> street to, you know, see where they are going.
>
>
> Matthew Klahn
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:56 PM, john wrote:
>
> > if you ride in wood or on dark roads, by all means get
> really bright and super expensive light. For as bright and
> dangerous (to others) as those lights are (i've been
> literally blinded and nearly crashed many times...) they
> have a small area and therefore can appear only as a bright
> dot or blinking bright dot that is disconcerting and
> confusing with implied smugness also seen in suv drivers
> using cellphones (said with some exaggeration :). and
> Helmet mounted lights should be baned from the streets, or
> at least, for God's sake, stop looking at me as i ride
> by.
> >
> > I ride with two inexpensive planet bike or cateyes,
> simply use rechargeable batteries. The one (3-4 years old
> now), has a pretty big reflector, and if you turn on your
> light walk down the street and turn around and look at your
> parked bicycle, its nicely visible as a bigger
> "dot" than most. Add two, and you have even
> bigger "dots", and also a lot less likely to be
> caught lightless. And although its not insanely bright, Its
> bright enough to easily allow a ride on lief ericson in the
> dark. Its also gone 10-20 hours before a required
> recharge.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Gregory Leblanc
> wrote:
> >
> >> From: Gregory Leblanc
>
> >> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for
> Headlights
> >> To: "OBRA List"
>
> >> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:43 PM
> >> 2008/12/4 Phreadi :
> >>> ...or with some lights, you get nowhere near
> what you
> >> should be getting for
> >>> what you paid for it.
> >>> I just recently queried the list and ended up
> picking
> >> up a single-beam,
> >>> minewt USB light w/ a tiny Li-ION batter to
> have as a
> >> helmet mounted for
> >>> commuting, for 100 bucks.
> >>> It's beam is indestinguishable from my 250
> dollar
> >> cateye tripleshot, a very
> >>> huge and heavy 3-beam LED, with a very heaving
> NiMH
> >> battery. Granted it's a
> >>> 2 year old design and the minewt USB is brand
> new, but
> >> c'mon...a 3-beam
> >>> light should not be that dim compared to any
> new
> >> single LED lamp in my book.
> >>
> >> Well, it might be time to change books, then. In
> the past
> >> 2 years,
> >> light output from LEDs really has tripled at the
> same
> >> power-point, if
> >> not more. Electronics to efficiently drive LEDs
> have also
> >> gotten a
> >> lot better in the past 2 years, and the prices
> have come
> >> down on both
> >> the electronics and the LEDs themselves. I fully
> expect
> >> this sort of
> >> evolution in bicycle lights to continue for at
> least
> >> another 3 years,
> >> on the LED front. Get something now that's
> Good
> >> Enough, but don't
> >> expect to buy a bunch of expensive battery packs
> for it, as
> >> by the
> >> time you wear one out, there will be something
> newer,
> >> cheaper, and
> >> that throws more light where you need it.
> >> Greg
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> OBRA mailing list
> >> obra@list.obra.org
> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Matthew Klahn

OK, I was going to stay out of this, but this comes up a lot when
talking about lights.

There are two uses to lights:

1) To be seen by cars
2) To see the terrain you are traveling over

Both uses are legitimate, and you need to figure out what your own
needs are. If you need a light to see debris on the streets, leave
piles, pot holes, etc. as you are commuting, then by all means get a
bright LED light and point it at the street. If you want to be seen by
traffic, then buy smaller, cheap LED lights and place them around your
bicycle in many different locations, etc.

Don't say that people shouldn't commute with bright LED lights; that's
just silly. Let them decide if they need that kind of bright light for
their own commuting. The point that it can be too bright to look at
directly is well taken, but solved if the riders point the light at
the street to, you know, see where they are going.

Matthew Klahn

On Dec 4, 2008, at 2:56 PM, john wrote:

> if you ride in wood or on dark roads, by all means get really bright
> and super expensive light. For as bright and dangerous (to others)
> as those lights are (i've been literally blinded and nearly crashed
> many times...) they have a small area and therefore can appear only
> as a bright dot or blinking bright dot that is disconcerting and
> confusing with implied smugness also seen in suv drivers using
> cellphones (said with some exaggeration :). and Helmet mounted
> lights should be baned from the streets, or at least, for God's
> sake, stop looking at me as i ride by.
>
> I ride with two inexpensive planet bike or cateyes, simply use
> rechargeable batteries. The one (3-4 years old now), has a pretty
> big reflector, and if you turn on your light walk down the street
> and turn around and look at your parked bicycle, its nicely visible
> as a bigger "dot" than most. Add two, and you have even bigger
> "dots", and also a lot less likely to be caught lightless. And
> although its not insanely bright, Its bright enough to easily allow
> a ride on lief ericson in the dark. Its also gone 10-20 hours
> before a required recharge.
>
>
>
> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, Gregory Leblanc > wrote:
>
>> From: Gregory Leblanc
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
>> To: "OBRA List"
>> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:43 PM
>> 2008/12/4 Phreadi :
>>> ...or with some lights, you get nowhere near what you
>> should be getting for
>>> what you paid for it.
>>> I just recently queried the list and ended up picking
>> up a single-beam,
>>> minewt USB light w/ a tiny Li-ION batter to have as a
>> helmet mounted for
>>> commuting, for 100 bucks.
>>> It's beam is indestinguishable from my 250 dollar
>> cateye tripleshot, a very
>>> huge and heavy 3-beam LED, with a very heaving NiMH
>> battery. Granted it's a
>>> 2 year old design and the minewt USB is brand new, but
>> c'mon...a 3-beam
>>> light should not be that dim compared to any new
>> single LED lamp in my book.
>>
>> Well, it might be time to change books, then. In the past
>> 2 years,
>> light output from LEDs really has tripled at the same
>> power-point, if
>> not more. Electronics to efficiently drive LEDs have also
>> gotten a
>> lot better in the past 2 years, and the prices have come
>> down on both
>> the electronics and the LEDs themselves. I fully expect
>> this sort of
>> evolution in bicycle lights to continue for at least
>> another 3 years,
>> on the LED front. Get something now that's Good
>> Enough, but don't
>> expect to buy a bunch of expensive battery packs for it, as
>> by the
>> time you wear one out, there will be something newer,
>> cheaper, and
>> that throws more light where you need it.
>> Greg
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

john

if you ride in wood or on dark roads, by all means get really bright and super expensive light. For as bright and dangerous (to others) as those lights are (i've been literally blinded and nearly crashed many times...) they have a small area and therefore can appear only as a bright dot or blinking bright dot that is disconcerting and confusing with implied smugness also seen in suv drivers using cellphones (said with some exaggeration :). and Helmet mounted lights should be baned from the streets, or at least, for God's sake, stop looking at me as i ride by.

I ride with two inexpensive planet bike or cateyes, simply use rechargeable batteries. The one (3-4 years old now), has a pretty big reflector, and if you turn on your light walk down the street and turn around and look at your parked bicycle, its nicely visible as a bigger "dot" than most. Add two, and you have even bigger "dots", and also a lot less likely to be caught lightless. And although its not insanely bright, Its bright enough to easily allow a ride on lief ericson in the dark. Its also gone 10-20 hours before a required recharge.

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, Gregory Leblanc wrote:

> From: Gregory Leblanc
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
> To: "OBRA List"
> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 1:43 PM
> 2008/12/4 Phreadi :
> > ...or with some lights, you get nowhere near what you
> should be getting for
> > what you paid for it.
> > I just recently queried the list and ended up picking
> up a single-beam,
> > minewt USB light w/ a tiny Li-ION batter to have as a
> helmet mounted for
> > commuting, for 100 bucks.
> > It's beam is indestinguishable from my 250 dollar
> cateye tripleshot, a very
> > huge and heavy 3-beam LED, with a very heaving NiMH
> battery. Granted it's a
> > 2 year old design and the minewt USB is brand new, but
> c'mon...a 3-beam
> > light should not be that dim compared to any new
> single LED lamp in my book.
>
> Well, it might be time to change books, then. In the past
> 2 years,
> light output from LEDs really has tripled at the same
> power-point, if
> not more. Electronics to efficiently drive LEDs have also
> gotten a
> lot better in the past 2 years, and the prices have come
> down on both
> the electronics and the LEDs themselves. I fully expect
> this sort of
> evolution in bicycle lights to continue for at least
> another 3 years,
> on the LED front. Get something now that's Good
> Enough, but don't
> expect to buy a bunch of expensive battery packs for it, as
> by the
> time you wear one out, there will be something newer,
> cheaper, and
> that throws more light where you need it.
> Greg
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Brian Engelen

The Light On! reviewed at the MTBR link below is last years model. This
year's model is almost 2x as bright, 2/3 the weight and has rechargeable
"loose cell batteries" ( They can be replaced very inexpensively).

LED lights are now brighter than HID lights. Li-ions loose cell batteries
will charge 500 to 800 cycles.

If anyone wants to demo a light then come see me at Bike Craft IV, next Wed.
Dec. 10th, Root Brewery. OBRA members get 10% off the sales price, but must
order by phone.

Brian Engelen

http://lightonlights.com/

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Long, Steve
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:37 PM
To: B Mills; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-shootout-introduction/

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of B Mills
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:05 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

I'm thinking of splurging on a descent headlight, but I'm not sure if it's
worth it to go with the higher cost Rechargeable or if there are other more
cost effective models out there...so let me know your thoughts on this
topic, if you have a rechargeable headlight how do you like it, has it been
reliable ? OR if you have a good reliable battery operated Light are you
happy with it and is it reliable ?

Thanks

Mills

Gregory Leblanc

2008/12/4 Phreadi :
> ...or with some lights, you get nowhere near what you should be getting for
> what you paid for it.
> I just recently queried the list and ended up picking up a single-beam,
> minewt USB light w/ a tiny Li-ION batter to have as a helmet mounted for
> commuting, for 100 bucks.
> It's beam is indestinguishable from my 250 dollar cateye tripleshot, a very
> huge and heavy 3-beam LED, with a very heaving NiMH battery. Granted it's a
> 2 year old design and the minewt USB is brand new, but c'mon...a 3-beam
> light should not be that dim compared to any new single LED lamp in my book.

Well, it might be time to change books, then. In the past 2 years,
light output from LEDs really has tripled at the same power-point, if
not more. Electronics to efficiently drive LEDs have also gotten a
lot better in the past 2 years, and the prices have come down on both
the electronics and the LEDs themselves. I fully expect this sort of
evolution in bicycle lights to continue for at least another 3 years,
on the LED front. Get something now that's Good Enough, but don't
expect to buy a bunch of expensive battery packs for it, as by the
time you wear one out, there will be something newer, cheaper, and
that throws more light where you need it.
Greg

Randy Dreiling

I have ridden a number of Oakridge trails like Alpine, Larison Rock, Goodman...with my lights and it works great...mine is at least 5 years old. I also had a Cat Eye lights and those rechargeable batteries stop working after two years...Light in Motion is way better.

Randy Dreiling

________________________________
From: Jacob Balderas
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:36:12 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

I have ridden on Light and Motion Arc light since 2004. great light. Forst park at night in the rain with the lights...it works. I can ride full speed in complete darkness without issues. spendy but worth it. Keep in mind that the Li Ion batteries have about 60% (300 charges) as the NiMh (500 charges).

-Jacob Balderas

________________________________

From: calling64@msn.com
To: raggy23@yahoo.com; mills960@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:29:50 -0800
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

I have been training after dark for about 15 years and have used several lights in that time. For the past 3 years I have used light in motion and love it. I have never done any mountain bike rideing with it but I have ridden off road with my road bike on trails at about 25 mph. I have had no issue with it and it casts a beam far enough out that you will not over ride it.

The new light in motion lights look extremely nice.

A quality light is well worth the money spent.

Chris Alling

________________________________

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:17:25 -0800
From: raggy23@yahoo.com
To: mills960@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

Lights in Motion make a nice range of rechargeable lights. I have yet to see a battery light that is anywhere nearly as good as a rechargeable light.
With lights you get what you pay for.

Randy Dreiling

________________________________
From: B Mills
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:05:09 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

I'm thinking of splurging on a descent headlight, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to go with the higher cost Rechargeable or if there are other more cost effective models out there...so let me know your thoughts on this topic, if you have a rechargeable headlight how do you like it, has it been reliable ? OR if you have a good reliable battery operated Light are you happy with it and is it reliable ?

Thanks

Mills

________________________________
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail® account.

Phreadi

...or with some lights, you get nowhere near what you should be getting for
what you paid for it.
I just recently queried the list and ended up picking up a single-beam,
minewt USB light w/ a tiny Li-ION batter to have as a helmet mounted for
commuting, for 100 bucks.

It's beam is indestinguishable from my 250 dollar cateye tripleshot, a very
huge and heavy 3-beam LED, with a very heaving NiMH battery. Granted it's a
2 year old design and the minewt USB is brand new, but c'mon...a 3-beam
light should not be that dim compared to any new single LED lamp in my book.

MTBR.com has a LED headlight shootout article on their site. FYI.

-Fred

2008/12/4 Randy Dreiling

> Lights in Motion make a nice range of rechargeable lights. I have yet to
> see a battery light that is anywhere nearly as good as a rechargeable light.
> With lights you get what you pay for.
>
> Randy Dreiling
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* B Mills
> *To:* obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:05:09 PM
> *Subject:* [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
>
> I'm thinking of splurging on a descent headlight, but I'm not sure if it's
> worth it to go with the higher cost Rechargeable or if there are other more
> cost effective models out there...so let me know your thoughts on
> this topic, if you have a rechargeable headlight how do you like it, has it
> been reliable ? OR if you have a good reliable battery operated Light are
> you happy with it and is it reliable ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mills
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
Fred Ihle
phreadi@gmail.com
[503] 329-6634

Long, Steve

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-shootout-introduction/

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of B Mills
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:05 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

I'm thinking of splurging on a descent headlight, but I'm not sure if
it's worth it to go with the higher cost Rechargeable or if there are
other more cost effective models out there...so let me know your
thoughts on this topic, if you have a rechargeable headlight how do you
like it, has it been reliable ? OR if you have a good reliable battery
operated Light are you happy with it and is it reliable ?

Thanks

Mills

Jacob Balderas

I have ridden on Light and Motion Arc light since 2004. great light. Forst park at night in the rain with the lights...it works. I can ride full speed in complete darkness without issues. spendy but worth it. Keep in mind that the Li Ion batteries have about 60% (300 charges) as the NiMh (500 charges).

-Jacob Balderas

From: calling64@msn.comTo: raggy23@yahoo.com; mills960@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.orgDate: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:29:50 -0800Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

I have been training after dark for about 15 years and have used several lights in that time. For the past 3 years I have used light in motion and love it. I have never done any mountain bike rideing with it but I have ridden off road with my road bike on trails at about 25 mph. I have had no issue with it and it casts a beam far enough out that you will not over ride it. The new light in motion lights look extremely nice. A quality light is well worth the money spent. Chris Alling

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:17:25 -0800From: raggy23@yahoo.comTo: mills960@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.orgSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

Lights in Motion make a nice range of rechargeable lights. I have yet to see a battery light that is anywhere nearly as good as a rechargeable light.With lights you get what you pay for.
Randy Dreiling

From: B Mills To: obra@list.obra.orgSent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:05:09 PMSubject: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
I'm thinking of splurging on a descent headlight, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to go with the higher cost Rechargeable or if there are other more cost effective models out there...so let me know your thoughts on this topic, if you have a rechargeable headlight how do you like it, has it been reliable ? OR if you have a good reliable battery operated Light are you happy with it and is it reliable ?

Thanks

Mills

Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills. Get your Hotmail® account.

Chris Alling

I have been training after dark for about 15 years and have used several lights in that time. For the past 3 years I have used light in motion and love it. I have never done any mountain bike rideing with it but I have ridden off road with my road bike on trails at about 25 mph. I have had no issue with it and it casts a beam far enough out that you will not over ride it.

The new light in motion lights look extremely nice.

A quality light is well worth the money spent.

Chris Alling

Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:17:25 -0800From: raggy23@yahoo.comTo: mills960@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.orgSubject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

Lights in Motion make a nice range of rechargeable lights. I have yet to see a battery light that is anywhere nearly as good as a rechargeable light.With lights you get what you pay for.
Randy Dreiling

From: B Mills To: obra@list.obra.orgSent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:05:09 PMSubject: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights
I'm thinking of splurging on a descent headlight, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to go with the higher cost Rechargeable or if there are other more cost effective models out there...so let me know your thoughts on this topic, if you have a rechargeable headlight how do you like it, has it been reliable ? OR if you have a good reliable battery operated Light are you happy with it and is it reliable ?

Thanks

Mills
_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008

KO Kevin

I really like my Blackburn X8 system. It has dual head lamps (flood and
spot) and each lamp has 3 power settings and a flash mode. The system
comes with a Li-Ion battery and smart charger. You can usually find them
web-priced at less than $150. They are quite bright and work well for
dark bike paths and in heavy vehicle traffic. Be forewarned, you can
have both lamps on your handlebar, or one lamp on your helmet. You
cannot have one lamp on your helmet and one on the bar (it is not wired
for that configuration).

Kevin

Randy Dreiling

Lights in Motion make a nice range of rechargeable lights. I have yet to see a battery light that is anywhere nearly as good as a rechargeable light.
With lights you get what you pay for.

Randy Dreiling

________________________________
From: B Mills
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:05:09 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

I'm thinking of splurging on a descent headlight, but I'm not sure if it's worth it to go with the higher cost Rechargeable or if there are other more cost effective models out there...so let me know your thoughts on this topic, if you have a rechargeable headlight how do you like it, has it been reliable ? OR if you have a good reliable battery operated Light are you happy with it and is it reliable ?

Thanks

Mills

Jet 9

I've got a Jet I-13 that I have had for 4 years plus.it has 3 different
wattage settings that you choose by how you cycle thru the on/off button
20W, 12W, & 8W.It has a 13.2V NiMH battery that will keep the light lit on
it's highest setting of 20 watts for 2+ hours. I use it helmet mounted every
day on my morning commute I have used it night riding on mountain biking and
it works great..I paid about $200 for it. No replaceable battery light I
have ever tried has even come close.

Jetlites.com

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of B Mills
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:05 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Recommendations for Headlights

I'm thinking of splurging on a descent headlight, but I'm not sure if it's
worth it to go with the higher cost Rechargeable or if there are other more
cost effective models out there...so let me know your thoughts on this
topic, if you have a rechargeable headlight how do you like it, has it been
reliable ? OR if you have a good reliable battery operated Light are you
happy with it and is it reliable ?

Thanks

Mills

B Mills

I'm thinking of splurging on a descent headlight, but I'm not sure if it's
worth it to go with the higher cost Rechargeable or if there are other more
cost effective models out there...so let me know your thoughts on
this topic, if you have a rechargeable headlight how do you like it, has it
been reliable ? OR if you have a good reliable battery operated Light are
you happy with it and is it reliable ?

Thanks

Mills