Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team

Well, let me speak for the riders in Sothern Oregon. We would love to see the Cross Crusade come on down. I know it would draw more riders from SO OR in to the series. It could even draw some of the Ca. riders in. If it was a possibility I know 3 promoters down here that would love to help make that happen. If Chris King doesn't want to come down and serve coffee it would be real easy to get Dutch Brothers to come on out. Since they are based out of Grants Pass. So if it was something that the Crusade people would like to consider, we would love to help make it happen.Cliff McCann Pistis MinistriesPistis.us541-659-4104> From: chood1@comcast.net> Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 10:18:24 -0800> To: rondot@spiritone.com> CC: obra@list.obra.org; matt@haughey.com> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Supporting our races and suggesting ideas> > One of the largest (if not THE largest) MTB series in the country is > in Wisconsin, called the WORS series. It used to be promoted by Trek > and Subaru and consisted of a very long race schedule that spread the > races out across the state of Wisconsin. Every race counted for > overall points and when I did the series you could discount your two > lowest rankings in the overall score. What this did was encourage > riders from all over the state to participate and gave them a great > chance of being part of a great series, earn points and try something > new. For the serious riders, well, they had to travel to compete for > the overall standings and race on unique and challenging courses > against new competitors every other weekend. Weather, terrain, and > new local talent always played a role in determining each races > winner and no one every really ran away with the series...very > competitive. Each race was put on by local promoters that adhered to > the WORS series rules, points tally and prizes.> > Cross Crusade should consider incorporating some Eugene, Bend and > Southern Oregon races into their series and make the points count > towards the Cross Crusade overall. I understand wanting to stay close > to home to race. We all have family and other obligations to take up > our weekends so sneaking in a quick weekend race is tough at times, > but making the series spread out a bit, allowing others to gain > points in the series without all the travel and spreading the word > does mean a lot.> > Just my two cents. Check out WORS series website to get a sense of > how they spread out the series.> > http://www.wors.org/news/> > > > On Dec 16, 2008, at 12:32 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser wrote:> > > I agree Matthew. The USGP race times, registration process > > (including cost), Cat. breakout (I raced in a group of 10-11 racers > > in 55+) and shorter races just was not the comfort zone of the > > Crusade. That stuff along with the CC being finished probably cut > > numbers. I may be wrong, but I thought the size of the crowd was > > smaller than last year even with much better weather for fans.> > But we still have so many great races to choose from in OBRA land.> > ron> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Haughey" > > > > To: > > Cc: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:23 AM> > Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Supporting our races and suggesting ideas> >> >> >> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM, wrote:> >>> However, attendance seemed to be quite a bit lower than CC, > >>> especially> >>> if you remove all the non CC regulars from the equation. Why was > >>> that?> >>> My only guess is that it wasn't part of the CC, and a lot of > >>> people that> >>> focus solely on CC had shut it down for the year.> >>> >> I figure it's because the USGP had crazy early start times (beg/C at> >> 8am instead of 9/10am), the races were shorter (30min vs. 40-45min),> >> and it both cost more and had some confusing online registration.> >> There's also the thought that it's supposed to be a "national" event> >> instead of a local one.> >> _______________________________________________> >> OBRA mailing list> >> obra@list.obra.org> >> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> >> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> >> > _______________________________________________> > OBRA mailing list> > obra@list.obra.org> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org> > _______________________________________________> OBRA mailing list> obra@list.obra.org> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_________________________________________________________________
Send e-mail faster without improving your typing skills.
http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_speed_122008

Randy Dreiling

Good luck with that...I hope it works out.
I would suggest they talk to the promoters in the Oregon Mt Bike series...we have learned a lot over the years promoting a state wide series.
Take Care

Randy Dreiling

________________________________
From: "cwherity@juno.com"
To: chood1@comcast.net
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; matt@haughey.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 1:05:41 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Supporting our races and suggesting ideas

Great idea. I think finding an organizer who is interested in creating a "world cup" type race series in our own state would be a super idea. Agreed about the varied talent around the state and competitive parity that might be found would be a great welcome to those who get tired of either chasing or leading the same old people all the time. The Cross Crusade series, I don't believe, should be the one to do that as they are pretty comfortable with the "Super Sundays" they have developed. This idea could even take place on Saturdays as not to compete with those wanting to also race the Crusade series. I personally have enjoyed racing at different locations against different competitors up and down the western corridor (Medford to Astoria). Organizers...what do you think about these ideas? I am curious if this seems to be something to big to take on or not, could OBRA help out with creating such a broadly travelled series?
Chris

____________________________________________________________
Click here to find experienced pros to help with your home improvement project.

cwherity@juno.com

Great idea. I think finding an organizer who is interested in creating a "world cup" type race series in our own state would be a super idea. Agreed about the varied talent around the state and competitive parity that might be found would be a great welcome to those who get tired of either chasing or leading the same old people all the time. The Cross Crusade series, I don't believe, should be the one to do that as they are pretty comfortable with the "Super Sundays" they have developed. This idea could even take place on Saturdays as not to compete with those wanting to also race the Crusade series. I personally have enjoyed racing at different locations against different competitors up and down the western corridor (Medford to Astoria). Organizers...what do you think about these ideas? I am curious if this seems to be something to big to take on or not, could OBRA help out with creating such a broadly travelled series?
Chris
____________________________________________________________
Click here to find experienced pros to help with your home improvement project.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu3zEIcjPXraZf5H0Btqr9ksIyLzYmMeoNgNGirCoBlknmmE/

Chuck Hood

One of the largest (if not THE largest) MTB series in the country is
in Wisconsin, called the WORS series. It used to be promoted by Trek
and Subaru and consisted of a very long race schedule that spread the
races out across the state of Wisconsin. Every race counted for
overall points and when I did the series you could discount your two
lowest rankings in the overall score. What this did was encourage
riders from all over the state to participate and gave them a great
chance of being part of a great series, earn points and try something
new. For the serious riders, well, they had to travel to compete for
the overall standings and race on unique and challenging courses
against new competitors every other weekend. Weather, terrain, and
new local talent always played a role in determining each races
winner and no one every really ran away with the series...very
competitive. Each race was put on by local promoters that adhered to
the WORS series rules, points tally and prizes.

Cross Crusade should consider incorporating some Eugene, Bend and
Southern Oregon races into their series and make the points count
towards the Cross Crusade overall. I understand wanting to stay close
to home to race. We all have family and other obligations to take up
our weekends so sneaking in a quick weekend race is tough at times,
but making the series spread out a bit, allowing others to gain
points in the series without all the travel and spreading the word
does mean a lot.

Just my two cents. Check out WORS series website to get a sense of
how they spread out the series.

http://www.wors.org/news/

On Dec 16, 2008, at 12:32 PM, Ron and Dorothy Strasser wrote:

> I agree Matthew. The USGP race times, registration process
> (including cost), Cat. breakout (I raced in a group of 10-11 racers
> in 55+) and shorter races just was not the comfort zone of the
> Crusade. That stuff along with the CC being finished probably cut
> numbers. I may be wrong, but I thought the size of the crowd was
> smaller than last year even with much better weather for fans.
> But we still have so many great races to choose from in OBRA land.
> ron
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Haughey"
>
> To:
> Cc:
> Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:23 AM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Supporting our races and suggesting ideas
>
>
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM, wrote:
>>> However, attendance seemed to be quite a bit lower than CC,
>>> especially
>>> if you remove all the non CC regulars from the equation. Why was
>>> that?
>>> My only guess is that it wasn't part of the CC, and a lot of
>>> people that
>>> focus solely on CC had shut it down for the year.
>>
>> I figure it's because the USGP had crazy early start times (beg/C at
>> 8am instead of 9/10am), the races were shorter (30min vs. 40-45min),
>> and it both cost more and had some confusing online registration.
>> There's also the thought that it's supposed to be a "national" event
>> instead of a local one.
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

I agree Matthew. The USGP race times, registration process (including
cost), Cat. breakout (I raced in a group of 10-11 racers in 55+) and shorter
races just was not the comfort zone of the Crusade. That stuff along with
the CC being finished probably cut numbers. I may be wrong, but I thought
the size of the crowd was smaller than last year even with much better
weather for fans.
But we still have so many great races to choose from in OBRA land.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Haughey"
To:
Cc:
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Supporting our races and suggesting ideas

> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM, wrote:
>> However, attendance seemed to be quite a bit lower than CC, especially
>> if you remove all the non CC regulars from the equation. Why was that?
>> My only guess is that it wasn't part of the CC, and a lot of people that
>> focus solely on CC had shut it down for the year.
>
> I figure it's because the USGP had crazy early start times (beg/C at
> 8am instead of 9/10am), the races were shorter (30min vs. 40-45min),
> and it both cost more and had some confusing online registration.
> There's also the thought that it's supposed to be a "national" event
> instead of a local one.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Erik Voldengen

FWIW, I couldn't race on many Saturdays as I'm a parent of two girls
playing soccer...on Saturdays.

I've always assumed that's why we do so many bike races on Sunday, all
year 'round.

-Erik

Matthew Haughey

On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM, wrote:
> However, attendance seemed to be quite a bit lower than CC, especially
> if you remove all the non CC regulars from the equation. Why was that?
> My only guess is that it wasn't part of the CC, and a lot of people that
> focus solely on CC had shut it down for the year.

I figure it's because the USGP had crazy early start times (beg/C at
8am instead of 9/10am), the races were shorter (30min vs. 40-45min),
and it both cost more and had some confusing online registration.
There's also the thought that it's supposed to be a "national" event
instead of a local one.

tackyglueit

usgp was also the same weekend as the Holiday Brew fest downtown.

On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 10:04 PM, cwherity@juno.com wrote:

> I am curious what the results were from the survey we filled out a while
> back regarding racing interests, etc. For personal reasons I choose not
> race on Sundays, so Saturdays are my chosen race day (also the weekday races
> that take place). I too would love to see more racers at Saturday events
> but we cannot expect anyone to change where or when they choose to race.
>
> The Crusade series is very successful but I don't think that we should be
> discouraged that the other out of town races aren't getting the same
> attendance. Remember the Portland metropolitan area is home to
> approximately 2 million of Oregon's 3.7 million inhabitants, that is over
> 54% of this states population living in one small area of this vast state.
> That is one good reason why the Portland area has greater attendance.
>
> I don't think that we are seeing a refusal to support other races outside
> of the Portland metropolitan area, it is just more convenient for the
> majority. I live in Florence now and must travel at least 120+ miles round
> trip to Eugene and back if I want to race "nearby". If I lived in Portland
> I would certainly prefer to stay "at home" to race so I don't have to spend
> countless hours in my vehicle away from my family traveling to and from all
> the other places I have to go to do something I love to do. So let's make
> suggestions on how to improve our racing experiences wherever they might
> be...
>
> I suggest that the Cross Crusade race organizers ponder the possibility of
> traveling further down the Willamette Valley or even east of the Cascades
> and maybe even to southern Oregon for a race or two during the season to
> spread the excitement. This may serve a couple good purposes 1) to increase
> awareness of the sport in different areas of the state, 2) assist in
> bringing new & other curious, yet timid racers to each areas local series,
> boosting attendance through "an experience never forgotten". Who knows you
> might find a similar following to the Greatful Dead if the show hit the
> road! I think it would be so cool to see the Cross Crusade rally into a
> town for a weekend and put on a good spectator activity where families could
> come and enjoy watching an amazing sporting event. This is merely a
> suggestion that I realize is far fetched but not impossible either. Sorry
> to be so long winded but the kids are in bed and I have nothing else to do
> tonight, except maybe exercise
> .
>
> Chris
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Aching back? Sore neck? Cick to learn how to manage your pain.
>
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbv5xEl7zv80lzQwSIYfENOJbmr8artGqcdVs0XjgFwahfdwM/
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

Todd.Dye@CH2M.com

One idea I posed on the CC forums a while back to increase attendance at the smaller early season races, is to base callups at CC#1 on OBRA BAR points. I think a BAR point chase to get a coveted call up at the first CC race would boost attendance at the early season non-CC races. This wouldn't take any extra effort (BAR points are already tallied, and CC already tallies points for callups), complements CC nicely, and would give a boost to some of the other events.

I don't think there is one factor that makes the CC what it is, but a lot of factors that contribute. If I had to rank them in order of importance affecting overall attendance it would look like this:

1. Biggest series with the best competition (everybody wants to be a part of the biggest and best)
2. Highest concentration of venues local to PDX
3. Series dates are at the peak of the season
4. Carnival atmosphere, draw for spectators
5. Sunday events vs. Saturday

The CC does the best job of putting all of those factors together, and I don't see a way to change much of that, which is OK. I don't think anybody wants to compete with or take anything away from CC.

>From what I can tell, the biggest factor affecting attendance other than the biggest/best/snowball effect is distance from Portland. I think the numbers from the CC Astoria weekend bear that out. Just glancing at several categories, the attendance numbers between CC# 4 (sat) and CC#5 (sun) in Astoria were not hugely different. Some categories had more Saturday than Sunday and others the reverse. Without tallying the totals for all categories I would guess that there wasn't more than 10 - 15% difference between Saturday and Sunday attendance, but both were down probably 30% over attendance at the PDX CC venues.

Looking at Saturday vs. Sunday attendance at other races during peak season isn't a fair comparison, as the CC has all of the peak season Sunday dates spoken for, with the Saturday events being more far flung from PDX. Now, in fairness, the CC itself probably defines "peak season" more than the calendar or weather do.

Kruger's and Barlow were the best attended non CC events (excluding USGP). Probably less than half the peak attendance of CC, at least double the Willamette or Psycho cross series. They would score higher on #2 and #5. I didn't attend either, so I don't know about #4, but the dates did bookend the CC series, so not as high on #3.

Psycho Cross had both Saturday and Sunday events, and the Saturday events on CC weekends were just as well attended if not more so than the Sunday events on non CC weekends. The early PC 1,2,3 races score high on #3/low on #5 with PC 4,5 the opposite.

The Hood River weekend seemed to have Sunday getting a slight attendance edge, but both a fraction of CC. It was still fairly early season, farther from PDX, not part of CC.

In my mind, the outlier in all this was the USGP weekend. I didn't look closely at the final numbers from Sat vs. Sun, but at least from the couple of categories I looked at on the pre-reg list, I didn't see a significant difference between the two, so it was fairly normal in that aspect. The curious thing is that this was an event in PDX with national visibility and draw, with the same if not more vendors etc. as the CC races. However, attendance seemed to be quite a bit lower than CC, especially if you remove all the non CC regulars from the equation. Why was that? My only guess is that it wasn't part of the CC, and a lot of people that focus solely on CC had shut it down for the year.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of cwherity@juno.com
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 10:05 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Supporting our races and suggesting ideas

I am curious what the results were from the survey we filled out a while back regarding racing interests, etc. For personal reasons I choose not race on Sundays, so Saturdays are my chosen race day (also the weekday races that take place). I too would love to see more racers at Saturday events but we cannot expect anyone to change where or when they choose to race.

The Crusade series is very successful but I don't think that we should be discouraged that the other out of town races aren't getting the same attendance. Remember the Portland metropolitan area is home to approximately 2 million of Oregon's 3.7 million inhabitants, that is over 54% of this states population living in one small area of this vast state. That is one good reason why the Portland area has greater attendance.

I don't think that we are seeing a refusal to support other races outside of the Portland metropolitan area, it is just more convenient for the majority. I live in Florence now and must travel at least 120+ miles round trip to Eugene and back if I want to race "nearby". If I lived in Portland I would certainly prefer to stay "at home" to race so I don't have to spend countless hours in my vehicle away from my family traveling to and from all the other places I have to go to do something I love to do. So let's make suggestions on how to improve our racing experiences wherever they might be...

I suggest that the Cross Crusade race organizers ponder the possibility of traveling further down the Willamette Valley or even east of the Cascades and maybe even to southern Oregon for a race or two during the season to spread the excitement. This may serve a couple good purposes 1) to increase awareness of the sport in different areas of the state, 2) assist in bringing new & other curious, yet timid racers to each areas local series, boosting attendance through "an experience never forgotten". Who knows you might find a similar following to the Greatful Dead if the show hit the road! I think it would be so cool to see the Cross Crusade rally into a town for a weekend and put on a good spectator activity where families could come and enjoy watching an amazing sporting event. This is merely a suggestion that I realize is far fetched but not impossible either. Sorry to be so long winded but the kids are in bed and I have nothing else to do tonight, except maybe exercise .

Chris

____________________________________________________________
Aching back? Sore neck? Cick to learn how to manage your pain.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbv5xEl7zv80lzQwSIYfENOJbmr8artGqcdVs0XjgFwahfdwM/
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

cwherity@juno.com

I am curious what the results were from the survey we filled out a while back regarding racing interests, etc. For personal reasons I choose not race on Sundays, so Saturdays are my chosen race day (also the weekday races that take place). I too would love to see more racers at Saturday events but we cannot expect anyone to change where or when they choose to race.

The Crusade series is very successful but I don't think that we should be discouraged that the other out of town races aren't getting the same attendance. Remember the Portland metropolitan area is home to approximately 2 million of Oregon's 3.7 million inhabitants, that is over 54% of this states population living in one small area of this vast state. That is one good reason why the Portland area has greater attendance.

I don't think that we are seeing a refusal to support other races outside of the Portland metropolitan area, it is just more convenient for the majority. I live in Florence now and must travel at least 120+ miles round trip to Eugene and back if I want to race "nearby". If I lived in Portland I would certainly prefer to stay "at home" to race so I don't have to spend countless hours in my vehicle away from my family traveling to and from all the other places I have to go to do something I love to do. So let's make suggestions on how to improve our racing experiences wherever they might be...

I suggest that the Cross Crusade race organizers ponder the possibility of traveling further down the Willamette Valley or even east of the Cascades and maybe even to southern Oregon for a race or two during the season to spread the excitement. This may serve a couple good purposes 1) to increase awareness of the sport in different areas of the state, 2) assist in bringing new & other curious, yet timid racers to each areas local series, boosting attendance through "an experience never forgotten". Who knows you might find a similar following to the Greatful Dead if the show hit the road! I think it would be so cool to see the Cross Crusade rally into a town for a weekend and put on a good spectator activity where families could come and enjoy watching an amazing sporting event. This is merely a suggestion that I realize is far fetched but not impossible either. Sorry to be so long winded but the kids are in bed and I have nothing else to do tonight, except maybe exercise.

Chris

____________________________________________________________
Aching back? Sore neck? Cick to learn how to manage your pain.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbv5xEl7zv80lzQwSIYfENOJbmr8artGqcdVs0XjgFwahfdwM/