George de Randich

Mike,

Were you hurt badly?

A couple of questions:
1.. Have you seen an attorney?
2.. Would you contact me privately?
George Y. de Randich
Licensed Private Investigator

George de Randich
----- Original Message -----
From: MIKE STOCKTON
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 10:42 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

So we can discuss a-hole drivers versus cars all we want but the fact of the matter is if there an a-hole in the car there an a-hole in the car, wether rage or stupidity againts bicycles, runners and other drivers. Here is an example that also has to do with the Police handling things there way....2/6/2009 I am in my car coming home from work sitting at a stop light when a Jeep tried cutting between me and the car behind me when BAM I get rear ended at 35mph, I did not see this happen and was knocked out and taken to the hospital so I am going off the police report and statements from witnesses. They get there Jeep running and run from the seen only to be followed by some people who watched the whole thing un-fold, police and rescue units are everywhere, they find the guy's at a house about a mile away, 1 of them has only a instruction permit and the other has a suspended license, so the police get there and because the witnesses were only 98% sure which one of them was the driver they didnt do anything at all not even a slap on the hand.... oh and un-insured! So there you go, a couple of a-hole drivers and it had nothing to do with cyclists just bad decision making, and as far as the police department goes they said unfortunatly they are seeing more and more of this kind of stuff all the time as far as hit and runs and un-licensed and un-insured motorists go.

Be careful out there!

Thanks

Mike Stockton
971-239-8000

> From: mohair@aracnet.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:57:44 -0800
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Let's face it. Many, if not most, drivers gravitate to the vehicle that
> fufills an inner need. Without going into Freudian analysis, wannabe
> cowboys and such gravitate to BIG vehicles. Such vehicles offer "safety" to
> the driver and a sense of power. It's the "I'm bigger than you are,
> therefore I'm right." school.
>
> It's not always trucks. I've had people in Range Rovers and Mercedes, both
> male and female, act like total jerks. Probably a sense of entitlement. My
> favorite was the 40 year old woman who passed me and then cut an immediate
> right across my bow. I went into the gravel and spun the bike and yelled
> "Watch it!" very loudly. Whereupon she flipped me off. I'm sure it really
> impressed the young girl in the back seat.
>
> Whatever happened to getting the license number and pursuing the owner with
> a civil suit?
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Southwest Bicycle"
>
>
> > Okay, then why is it always a truck?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

MIKE STOCKTON

So we can discuss a-hole drivers versus cars all we want but the fact of the matter is if there an a-hole in the car there an a-hole in the car, wether rage or stupidity againts bicycles, runners and other drivers. Here is an example that also has to do with the Police handling things there way....2/6/2009 I am in my car coming home from work sitting at a stop light when a Jeep tried cutting between me and the car behind me when BAM I get rear ended at 35mph, I did not see this happen and was knocked out and taken to the hospital so I am going off the police report and statements from witnesses. They get there Jeep running and run from the seen only to be followed by some people who watched the whole thing un-fold, police and rescue units are everywhere, they find the guy's at a house about a mile away, 1 of them has only a instruction permit and the other has a suspended license, so the police get there and because the witnesses were only 98% sure which one of them was the driver they didnt do anything at all not even a slap on the hand..... oh and un-insured! So there you go, a couple of a-hole drivers and it had nothing to do with cyclists just bad decision making, and as far as the police department goes they said unfortunatly they are seeing more and more of this kind of stuff all the time as far as hit and runs and un-licensed and un-insured motorists go.

Be careful out there!

Thanks

Mike Stockton
971-239-8000

> From: mohair@aracnet.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:57:44 -0800
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Let's face it. Many, if not most, drivers gravitate to the vehicle that
> fufills an inner need. Without going into Freudian analysis, wannabe
> cowboys and such gravitate to BIG vehicles. Such vehicles offer "safety" to
> the driver and a sense of power. It's the "I'm bigger than you are,
> therefore I'm right." school.
>
> It's not always trucks. I've had people in Range Rovers and Mercedes, both
> male and female, act like total jerks. Probably a sense of entitlement. My
> favorite was the 40 year old woman who passed me and then cut an immediate
> right across my bow. I went into the gravel and spun the bike and yelled
> "Watch it!" very loudly. Whereupon she flipped me off. I'm sure it really
> impressed the young girl in the back seat.
>
> Whatever happened to getting the license number and pursuing the owner with
> a civil suit?
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Southwest Bicycle"
>
>
> > Okay, then why is it always a truck?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Kevin

That may be the only option if the DA fails to bring charges.  It isn't the end I'd be hoping for but it's better than nothing.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?

http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, Michael O'Hair wrote:

Whatever happened to getting the license number and pursuing the owner with a civil suit?

Michael O'Hair

Let's face it. Many, if not most, drivers gravitate to the vehicle that
fufills an inner need. Without going into Freudian analysis, wannabe
cowboys and such gravitate to BIG vehicles. Such vehicles offer "safety" to
the driver and a sense of power. It's the "I'm bigger than you are,
therefore I'm right." school.

It's not always trucks. I've had people in Range Rovers and Mercedes, both
male and female, act like total jerks. Probably a sense of entitlement. My
favorite was the 40 year old woman who passed me and then cut an immediate
right across my bow. I went into the gravel and spun the bike and yelled
"Watch it!" very loudly. Whereupon she flipped me off. I'm sure it really
impressed the young girl in the back seat.

Whatever happened to getting the license number and pursuing the owner with
a civil suit?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Southwest Bicycle"

> Okay, then why is it always a truck?

J.Michael Manning

I have not followed the string of comments regarding this incident and I am a bit confused... at what point did it devolve into finger pointing based on one's zip code? Was it my description of it as "idiocy in rural Oregon"? If so it was not intended to be a biased statement as such, but rather a short summation of the situation as it happened in an area outside of the city. Let's stick to the topic and not get lost in our egos.

Mike Manning

"Athletic Excellence is my Business"

> Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 16:33:13 -0800
> From: qconant@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> a-holes are a-holes. It doesn't matter where they live. That's like saying that nobody in the city is a bad driver, or rude, or whatever.
>
> Personally, and this is just my own experience, but I've found more courteous drivers the farther out I go. My family is about as redneck as it gets, loggers, truck drivers, and you won't find better drivers or nicer people even if they are rough around the edges.
>
> I resent your comment about people who live in rural areas, and I'd take their company over yours any day.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ Hotmail®:…more than just e-mail.
http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_t2_hm_justgotbetter_explore_022009

Kevin

I do that.  I always give a wave and mouth a "thank you" when a driver does the right thing. I call out cyclists who do the wrong thing.   ie running a stop when the whole world is watching!

I guess I should be rethinking the whole "calling out a driver who's done a wrong" thing.
This little fiasco isn't as clean and tidy as one would like to see it.
What's with the Marion County cop not issuing a hit and run citation on the spot?
The driver admitted he did it, witnesses saw it.  Cop says "I chose to handle it differently"

I hope "differently" works.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
........and my powder dry

Kevin

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

What is happening in Kevin's corner of the bike world?

http://the-whir-of-spokes-in-air.blogspot.com

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--- On Mon, 2/23/09, Michael O'Hair wrote:

From: Michael O'Hair
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
To: "Obra"
Date: Monday, February 23, 2009, 2:18 PM

I changed my strategy some years ago.  I figured out that yelling at stupid people was futile.  There are too many of them.  So I started trying to reward good behavior.  If you see someone do something that shows common sense or good manners, say thank you.  And then tell them to do the same. It might start a movement, who knows?

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Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Southwest Bicycle

Okay, then why is it always a truck?
That's supposed to be a joke but like all good humor it has a kernel of
truth.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Schauer"
To:
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

> Having grown up in Northeast Clark County 10 miles further out than the
> big town of Battle Ground, I agree that generalizations about rural
> drivers vs urban drivers is a waste of oxygen.
>
> What I would say is that "a-holes" are not isolated to driving cars or
> trucks. I've seen them on all number of wheels. I think our angst here is
> with "law breakers" not "a-hole drivers"....
>
> Polarizing the drivers and cyclists serves only to make these incidents
> too easily characterized as more "cars vs bikes" instead of law breakers
> threatening the lives of law abiders.
>
> -Tim Schauer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Quenton Conant
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 4:33 PM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> a-holes are a-holes. It doesn't matter where they live. That's like saying
> that nobody in the city is a bad driver, or rude, or whatever.
>
> Personally, and this is just my own experience, but I've found more
> courteous drivers the farther out I go. My family is about as redneck as
> it gets, loggers, truck drivers, and you won't find better drivers or
> nicer people even if they are rough around the edges.
>
> I resent your comment about people who live in rural areas, and I'd take
> their company over yours any day.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Tim Schauer

Having grown up in Northeast Clark County 10 miles further out than the big town of Battle Ground, I agree that generalizations about rural drivers vs urban drivers is a waste of oxygen.

What I would say is that "a-holes" are not isolated to driving cars or trucks. I've seen them on all number of wheels. I think our angst here is with "law breakers" not "a-hole drivers"....

Polarizing the drivers and cyclists serves only to make these incidents too easily characterized as more "cars vs bikes" instead of law breakers threatening the lives of law abiders.

-Tim Schauer

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Quenton Conant
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 4:33 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

a-holes are a-holes. It doesn't matter where they live. That's like saying that nobody in the city is a bad driver, or rude, or whatever.

Personally, and this is just my own experience, but I've found more courteous drivers the farther out I go. My family is about as redneck as it gets, loggers, truck drivers, and you won't find better drivers or nicer people even if they are rough around the edges.

I resent your comment about people who live in rural areas, and I'd take their company over yours any day.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Quenton Conant

a-holes are a-holes. It doesn't matter where they live. That's like saying that nobody in the city is a bad driver, or rude, or whatever.

Personally, and this is just my own experience, but I've found more courteous drivers the farther out I go. My family is about as redneck as it gets, loggers, truck drivers, and you won't find better drivers or nicer people even if they are rough around the edges.

I resent your comment about people who live in rural areas, and I'd take their company over yours any day.

joe cipale

I learned a few years back that one way to win friends and influence
motorists is to communicate when it is safe for them to make a move
around you. Especially on blind corners or twisty descents/climbs. If I
am able to let a motorist know when it is safe to move around me, I am
often repaid with a smile and a wave. It saves my a$$, saves their
bacon, and we all can live for another day.

On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 16:05 -0800, Don Whitehead wrote:
> what actually scares me the most on the two lane semi-rural roads that
> I'm on is that cars overcompensate by moving way into the opposing
> lane when passing, but without regard for oncoming traffic. I know
> that if push comes to shove the car is going to come back towards me
> if the opposing traffic doesn't give way to the passing car.
>
> Don
>
> 2009/2/23 Randy Dreiling
>
> True
> Plus as some one that lives in a rural area I get sick of the
> labels we get...I know it is big city cool or something to
> lump us all together as backwards ass rednecks but that is
> total BS.
>
> I ran into far more jack asses while riding in town.
>
> Take Care
>
> Randy Dreiling
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> From: "chood1@comcast.net"
> To: hrdtduck
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Jeff Edes
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:37:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Have you ever counted, or taken thought, of all the drivers
> that pass you by without incident? Have you counted the ones
> that pass you while moving over into the other lane, or honk
> their horn nicely to let you know they are there? Have you
> ever counted all the cars/drivers that simply notice you and
> let you be? Have you counted the number of days without
> incident? I bet you would get tired of counting and lose track
> within the first 10 minutes of your early city commute.
>
> Thing is, you can go months, years without incident but it
> takes just one person to screw that all up. Don't give up
> hope because of a few knuckleheads out there. Remember that
> the number of decent people on the road far exceeds the number
> of troublemakers.
>
> I still have hope and I agree that one must be persistent in
> getting the offenders corrected through the proper channels.
>
> Good Luck
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hrdtduck"
> To: "Steve' 'Long" , "Jeff Edes"
> , obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:28:03 PM GMT -08:00
> US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Yea I get it and I'd hope to see some improvement over the
> last 25+
> years...but I have ridden in a lot of states and it is all the
> same...you
> take your life in your hands and trust to the decency of
> others when you
> ride the road....Not trying to be a downer, ...I had high hope
> for the last
> "gas crisis", that more people would get on a bike to save
> money, thus get
> to experience what we road regulars have to endure
> daily.....but it was
> pretty short lived, and desperate hope.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Long, Steve [mailto:Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov]
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: hrdtduck; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Remind's me of a story I once heard of a young boy walking
> along the
> beach picking up star fish and tossing them back into the
> water. An old
> man happened by and said to the boy, young man, why are you
> tossing the
> star fish back into the water, it can't possibly make a
> different
> considering the magnitude of them that wash ashore? The young
> boy look
> down at the star fish in his hand and exclaimed, it makes a
> difference
> to this one.
>
> Moral of story, one-at-a-time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of hrdtduck
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:14 PM
> To: 'Jeff Edes'; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them
> change...I've
> tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not
> work....beating
> them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to
> catch...I am not
> sure there is anything that can be done...the main reason I
> started
> riding mountain bikes back in the early 80s
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
> [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Edes
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> These drivers need to realize that they have no right to
> deliberately
> endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed
> on our own
> roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that
> we have no
> right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of
> the law.
> Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will
> be the
> first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a
> stand
> against this behavior.
>
> Jeff Edes
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Don Whitehead

what actually scares me the most on the two lane semi-rural roads that I'm
on is that cars overcompensate by moving way into the opposing lane when
passing, but without regard for oncoming traffic. I know that if push comes
to shove the car is going to come back towards me if the opposing traffic
doesn't give way to the passing car.

Don

2009/2/23 Randy Dreiling

> True
> Plus as some one that lives in a rural area I get sick of the labels we
> get...I know it is big city cool or something to lump us all together as
> backwards ass rednecks but that is total BS.
>
> I ran into far more jack asses while riding in town.
>
> Take Care
>
> Randy Dreiling
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "chood1@comcast.net"
> *To:* hrdtduck
> *Cc:* obra@list.obra.org; Jeff Edes
> *Sent:* Monday, February 23, 2009 12:37:50 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Have you ever counted, or taken thought, of all the drivers that pass you
> by without incident? Have you counted the ones that pass you while moving
> over into the other lane, or honk their horn nicely to let you know they are
> there? Have you ever counted all the cars/drivers that simply notice you and
> let you be? Have you counted the number of days without incident? I bet you
> would get tired of counting and lose track within the first 10 minutes of
> your early city commute.
>
> Thing is, you can go months, years without incident but it takes just one
> person to screw that all up. Don't give up hope because of a few
> knuckleheads out there. Remember that the number of decent people on the
> road far exceeds the number of troublemakers.
>
> I still have hope and I agree that one must be persistent in getting the
> offenders corrected through the proper channels.
>
> Good Luck
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hrdtduck"
> To: "Steve' 'Long" , "Jeff Edes" <
> Edes101@yahoo.com>, obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:28:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Yea I get it and I'd hope to see some improvement over the last 25+
> years...but I have ridden in a lot of states and it is all the same...you
> take your life in your hands and trust to the decency of others when you
> ride the road....Not trying to be a downer, ...I had high hope for the last
> "gas crisis", that more people would get on a bike to save money, thus get
> to experience what we road regulars have to endure daily.....but it was
> pretty short lived, and desperate hope.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Long, Steve [mailto:Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov]
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: hrdtduck; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Remind's me of a story I once heard of a young boy walking along the
> beach picking up star fish and tossing them back into the water. An old
> man happened by and said to the boy, young man, why are you tossing the
> star fish back into the water, it can't possibly make a different
> considering the magnitude of them that wash ashore? The young boy look
> down at the star fish in his hand and exclaimed, it makes a difference
> to this one.
>
> Moral of story, one-at-a-time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of hrdtduck
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:14 PM
> To: 'Jeff Edes'; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them change...I've
> tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not work....beating
> them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to catch...I am not
> sure there is anything that can be done...the main reason I started
> riding mountain bikes back in the early 80s
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Edes
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately
> endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own
> roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no
> right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law.
> Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the
> first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand
> against this behavior.
>
> Jeff Edes
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Randy Dreiling

True
Plus as some one that lives in a rural area I get sick of the labels we get...I know it is big city cool or something to lump us all together as backwards ass rednecks but that is total BS.

I ran into far more jack asses while riding in town.

Take Care
 Randy Dreiling

________________________________
From: "chood1@comcast.net"
To: hrdtduck
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; Jeff Edes
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:37:50 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Have you ever counted, or taken thought, of all the drivers that pass you by without incident? Have you counted the ones that pass you while moving over into the other lane, or honk their horn nicely to let you know they are there? Have you ever counted all the cars/drivers that simply notice you and let you be? Have you counted the number of days without incident? I bet you would get tired of counting and lose track within the first 10 minutes of your early city commute. 

Thing is, you can go months, years without incident but it takes just one person to screw that all up.  Don't give up hope because of a few knuckleheads out there. Remember that the number of decent people on the road far exceeds the number of troublemakers. 

I still have hope and I agree that one must be persistent in getting the offenders corrected through the proper channels.

Good Luck

----- Original Message -----
From: "hrdtduck"
To: "Steve' 'Long" , "Jeff Edes" , obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:28:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Yea I get it and I'd hope to see some improvement over the last 25+
years...but I have ridden in a lot of states and it is all the same...you
take your life in your hands and trust to the decency of others when you
ride the road....Not trying to be a downer, ...I had high hope for the last
"gas crisis", that more people would get on a bike to save money, thus get
to experience what we road regulars have to endure daily.....but it was
pretty short lived, and desperate hope.

-----Original Message-----
From: Long, Steve [mailto:Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:20 PM
To: hrdtduck; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Remind's me of a story I once heard of a young boy walking along the
beach picking up star fish and tossing them back into the water. An old
man happened by and said to the boy, young man, why are you tossing the
star fish back into the water, it can't possibly make a different
considering the magnitude of them that wash ashore? The young boy look
down at the star fish in his hand and exclaimed, it makes a difference
to this one.

Moral of story, one-at-a-time.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of hrdtduck
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:14 PM
To: 'Jeff Edes'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them change...I've
tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not work....beating
them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to catch...I am not
sure there is anything that can be done...the main reason I started
riding mountain bikes back in the early 80s

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Edes
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately
endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own
roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no
right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law.
Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the
first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand
against this behavior.

Jeff Edes
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Michael O'Hair

I changed my strategy some years ago. I figured out that yelling at stupid
people was futile. There are too many of them. So I started trying to
reward good behavior. If you see someone do something that shows common
sense or good manners, say thank you. And then tell them to do the same.
It might start a movement, who knows?

Chris Alling

Way to look at the glass mostly full. Problem is with the crappy drivers it only take one to hit you at which point who cares about all of the good drivers. I once had a lively discussion with a driver in Battle Ground after I chased him down after he ran me into the ditch. At one point he exclaimed that he saw me and he sees me everyday and had given me plenty of room in the past. At that point I asked him why he chose that day to run me into the ditch. Of course he had no answer.

Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:37:50 +0000
From: chood1@comcast.net
To: hrdtduck@clearwire.net
CC: obra@list.obra.org; Edes101@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Have you ever counted, or taken thought, of all the drivers that pass you by without incident? Have you counted the ones that pass you while moving over into the other lane, or honk their horn nicely to let you know they are there? Have you ever counted all the cars/drivers that simply notice you and let you be? Have you counted the number of days without incident? I bet you would get tired of counting and lose track within the first 10 minutes of your early city commute.

Thing is, you can go months, years without incident but it takes just one person to screw that all up. Don't give up hope because of a few knuckleheads out there. Remember that the number of decent people on the road far exceeds the number of troublemakers.

I still have hope and I agree that one must be persistent in getting the offenders corrected through the proper channels.

Good Luck

----- Original Message -----
From: "hrdtduck"
To: "Steve' 'Long" , "Jeff Edes" , obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:28:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Yea I get it and I'd hope to see some improvement over the last 25+
years...but I have ridden in a lot of states and it is all the same...you
take your life in your hands and trust to the decency of others when you
ride the road....Not trying to be a downer, ...I had high hope for the last
"gas crisis", that more people would get on a bike to save money, thus get
to experience what we road regulars have to endure daily.....but it was
pretty short lived, and desperate hope.

-----Original Message-----
From: Long, Steve [mailto:Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:20 PM
To: hrdtduck; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Remind's me of a story I once heard of a young boy walking along the
beach picking up star fish and tossing them back into the water. An old
man happened by and said to the boy, young man, why are you tossing the
star fish back into the water, it can't possibly make a different
considering the magnitude of them that wash ashore? The young boy look
down at the star fish in his hand and exclaimed, it makes a difference
to this one.

Moral of story, one-at-a-time.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of hrdtduck
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:14 PM
To: 'Jeff Edes'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them change...I've
tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not work....beating
them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to catch...I am not
sure there is anything that can be done...the main reason I started
riding mountain bikes back in the early 80s

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Edes
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately
endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own
roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no
right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law.
Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the
first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand
against this behavior.

Jeff Edes
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Access your email online and on the go with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_AE_Access_022009

Ben Fischler

Don't understand the unreasoned anger? I think it has everything to do with
our lovely "American Culture" (ie: I am the most important thing in the
world, everything else can go to hell) combined with the deleterious effects
of the automobile on the human psyche (ie: isolation, bubble between you and
the world, mistaking your windsheild for a television screen...)

Cars turn people into assholes, and in the States we're starting with a
populace that is already well stocked in that dept.

The only way to ride is to ride as if every single car on the road is a
death machine, because it is.

End rant.

2009/2/23 hrdtduck

> *All it takes is one to kill you….and yes I think of the majority that do
> pass safely & politely…thank God for them because it takes a long time to
> get over just one…once in a while offense…I suppose it is the nature of
> the offense that makes it stick so hard…the threat to one's life…well for
> me anyway is pretty hard to just forgive & forget….Won't keep me from riding
> but it take a lot of the joy out of a ride when every time you hear a
> vehicle approach (or don't which is the worst) and they pass within a hair's
> breath, in my mind deliberately violating your RIGHT to be on the road. You
> have that passing thought often as not, do I die here today? And what right
> do they have to frighten me in that manner….I just do not understand the
> unreasoned anger that is directed a cyclists way…how can it be so hard to
> let off that long pedal a little or twitch the steering wheel to the left a
> little…and I have family members who think that way, unreasoned anger
> towards cyclists….there is no dealing with them on a rational basis, and the
> only thing drivers (I call them automorons) understand…it tit for tat…and by
> 16lb bike is no match for even the lightest car on the road….I have modified
> the way I ride and where I ride, I stop at stop signs & lights (seems to be
> the biggest offense automorons accuse of offending , and they are
> right!)….but for the vast, vast majority of occurrences, the other lane was
> clear when that vehicle went by just too damn close, or when that beer
> bottle came flying out the window, or when the pickup rolls up and parks his
> fender under your elbow…..We need to fight back every time, however we
> can…make it a habit to memorize license numbers and make a complaint, talk
> to your local Sherriff's department. (won't do much good but we have to
> try)….Stay vigilant, ride in a group if you can (more witnesses)….what else
> can we do???*
>
> * *
>
> *From:* chood1@comcast.net [mailto:chood1@comcast.net]
> *Sent:* Monday, February 23, 2009 12:38 PM
> *To:* hrdtduck
> *Cc:* Steve' 'Long; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
>
>
> Have you ever counted, or taken thought, of all the drivers that pass you
> by without incident? Have you counted the ones that pass you while moving
> over into the other lane, or honk their horn nicely to let you know they are
> there? Have you ever counted all the cars/drivers that simply notice you and
> let you be? Have you counted the number of days without incident? I bet you
> would get tired of counting and lose track within the first 10 minutes of
> your early city commute.
>
> Thing is, you can go months, years without incident but it takes just one
> person to screw that all up. Don't give up hope because of a few
> knuckleheads out there. Remember that the number of decent people on the
> road far exceeds the number of troublemakers.
>
> I still have hope and I agree that one must be persistent in getting the
> offenders corrected through the proper channels.
>
> Good Luck
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "hrdtduck"
> To: "Steve' 'Long" , "Jeff Edes" <
> Edes101@yahoo.com>, obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:28:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Yea I get it and I'd hope to see some improvement over the last 25+
> years...but I have ridden in a lot of states and it is all the same...you
> take your life in your hands and trust to the decency of others when you
> ride the road....Not trying to be a downer, ...I had high hope for the last
> "gas crisis", that more people would get on a bike to save money, thus get
> to experience what we road regulars have to endure daily.....but it was
> pretty short lived, and desperate hope.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Long, Steve [mailto:Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov]
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:20 PM
> To: hrdtduck; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Remind's me of a story I once heard of a young boy walking along the
> beach picking up star fish and tossing them back into the water. An old
> man happened by and said to the boy, young man, why are you tossing the
> star fish back into the water, it can't possibly make a different
> considering the magnitude of them that wash ashore? The young boy look
> down at the star fish in his hand and exclaimed, it makes a difference
> to this one.
>
> Moral of story, one-at-a-time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of hrdtduck
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:14 PM
> To: 'Jeff Edes'; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them change...I've
> tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not work....beating
> them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to catch...I am not
> sure there is anything that can be done...the main reason I started
> riding mountain bikes back in the early 80s
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
> Behalf Of Jeff Edes
> Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?
>
> These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately
> endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own
> roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no
> right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law.
> Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the
> first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand
> against this behavior.
>
> Jeff Edes
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
-Ben

VFX Supe
Laika

[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

hrdtduck

All it takes is one to kill you….and yes I think of the majority that do pass safely & politely…thank God for them because it takes a long time to get over just one…once in a while offense…I suppose it is the nature of the offense that makes it stick so hard…the threat to one’s life…well for me anyway is pretty hard to just forgive & forget….Won’t keep me from riding but it take a lot of the joy out of a ride when every time you hear a vehicle approach (or don’t which is the worst) and they pass within a hair’s breath, in my mind deliberately violating your RIGHT to be on the road. You have that passing thought often as not, do I die here today? And what right do they have to frighten me in that manner….I just do not understand the unreasoned anger that is directed a cyclists way…how can it be so hard to let off that long pedal a little or twitch the steering wheel to the left a little…and I have family members who think that way, unreasoned anger towards cyclists….there is no dealing with them on a rational basis, and the only thing drivers (I call them automorons) understand…it tit for tat…and by 16lb bike is no match for even the lightest car on the road….I have modified the way I ride and where I ride, I stop at stop signs & lights (seems to be the biggest offense automorons accuse of offending , and they are right!)….but for the vast, vast majority of occurrences, the other lane was clear when that vehicle went by just too damn close, or when that beer bottle came flying out the window, or when the pickup rolls up and parks his fender under your elbow…..We need to fight back every time, however we can…make it a habit to memorize license numbers and make a complaint, talk to your local Sherriff’s department. (won’t do much good but we have to try)….Stay vigilant, ride in a group if you can (more witnesses)….what else can we do???

From: chood1@comcast.net [mailto:chood1@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:38 PM
To: hrdtduck
Cc: Steve' 'Long; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Have you ever counted, or taken thought, of all the drivers that pass you by without incident? Have you counted the ones that pass you while moving over into the other lane, or honk their horn nicely to let you know they are there? Have you ever counted all the cars/drivers that simply notice you and let you be? Have you counted the number of days without incident? I bet you would get tired of counting and lose track within the first 10 minutes of your early city commute.

Thing is, you can go months, years without incident but it takes just one person to screw that all up. Don't give up hope because of a few knuckleheads out there. Remember that the number of decent people on the road far exceeds the number of troublemakers.

I still have hope and I agree that one must be persistent in getting the offenders corrected through the proper channels.

Good Luck

----- Original Message -----
From: "hrdtduck"
To: "Steve' 'Long" , "Jeff Edes" , obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:28:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Yea I get it and I'd hope to see some improvement over the last 25+
years...but I have ridden in a lot of states and it is all the same...you
take your life in your hands and trust to the decency of others when you
ride the road....Not trying to be a downer, ...I had high hope for the last
"gas crisis", that more people would get on a bike to save money, thus get
to experience what we road regulars have to endure daily.....but it was
pretty short lived, and desperate hope.

-----Original Message-----
From: Long, Steve [mailto:Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:20 PM
To: hrdtduck; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Remind's me of a story I once heard of a young boy walking along the
beach picking up star fish and tossing them back into the water. An old
man happened by and said to the boy, young man, why are you tossing the
star fish back into the water, it can't possibly make a different
considering the magnitude of them that wash ashore? The young boy look
down at the star fish in his hand and exclaimed, it makes a difference
to this one.

Moral of story, one-at-a-time.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of hrdtduck
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:14 PM
To: 'Jeff Edes'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them change...I've
tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not work....beating
them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to catch...I am not
sure there is anything that can be done...the main reason I started
riding mountain bikes back in the early 80s

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Edes
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately
endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own
roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no
right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law.
Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the
first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand
against this behavior.

Jeff Edes
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

chood1@comcast.net

Have you ever counted, or taken thought, of all the drivers that pass you by without incident? Have you counted the ones that pass you while moving over into the other lane, or honk their horn nicely to let you know they are there? Have you ever counted all the cars/drivers that simply notice you and let you be? Have you counted the number of days without incident? I bet you would get tired of counting and lose track within the first 10 minutes of your early city commute.

Thing is, you can go months, years without incident but it takes just one person to screw that all up. Don't give up hope because of a few knuckleheads out there. Remember that the number of decent people on the road far exceeds the number of troublemakers.

I still have hope and I agree that one must be persistent in getting the offenders corrected through the proper channels.

Good Luck

----- Original Message -----
From: "hrdtduck"
To: "Steve' 'Long" , "Jeff Edes" , obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:28:03 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Yea I get it and I'd hope to see some improvement over the last 25+
years...but I have ridden in a lot of states and it is all the same...you
take your life in your hands and trust to the decency of others when you
ride the road....Not trying to be a downer, ...I had high hope for the last
"gas crisis", that more people would get on a bike to save money, thus get
to experience what we road regulars have to endure daily.....but it was
pretty short lived, and desperate hope.

-----Original Message-----
From: Long, Steve [mailto:Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:20 PM
To: hrdtduck; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Remind's me of a story I once heard of a young boy walking along the
beach picking up star fish and tossing them back into the water. An old
man happened by and said to the boy, young man, why are you tossing the
star fish back into the water, it can't possibly make a different
considering the magnitude of them that wash ashore? The young boy look
down at the star fish in his hand and exclaimed, it makes a difference
to this one.

Moral of story, one-at-a-time.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of hrdtduck
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:14 PM
To: 'Jeff Edes'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them change...I've
tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not work....beating
them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to catch...I am not
sure there is anything that can be done...the main reason I started
riding mountain bikes back in the early 80s

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Edes
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately
endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own
roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no
right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law.
Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the
first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand
against this behavior.

Jeff Edes
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

hrdtduck

Yea I get it and I'd hope to see some improvement over the last 25+
years...but I have ridden in a lot of states and it is all the same...you
take your life in your hands and trust to the decency of others when you
ride the road....Not trying to be a downer, ...I had high hope for the last
"gas crisis", that more people would get on a bike to save money, thus get
to experience what we road regulars have to endure daily.....but it was
pretty short lived, and desperate hope.

-----Original Message-----
From: Long, Steve [mailto:Steve.Long@clark.wa.gov]
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:20 PM
To: hrdtduck; Jeff Edes; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Remind's me of a story I once heard of a young boy walking along the
beach picking up star fish and tossing them back into the water. An old
man happened by and said to the boy, young man, why are you tossing the
star fish back into the water, it can't possibly make a different
considering the magnitude of them that wash ashore? The young boy look
down at the star fish in his hand and exclaimed, it makes a difference
to this one.

Moral of story, one-at-a-time.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of hrdtduck
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:14 PM
To: 'Jeff Edes'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them change...I've
tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not work....beating
them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to catch...I am not
sure there is anything that can be done...the main reason I started
riding mountain bikes back in the early 80s

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Edes
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately
endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own
roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no
right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law.
Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the
first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand
against this behavior.

Jeff Edes
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Long, Steve

Remind's me of a story I once heard of a young boy walking along the
beach picking up star fish and tossing them back into the water. An old
man happened by and said to the boy, young man, why are you tossing the
star fish back into the water, it can't possibly make a different
considering the magnitude of them that wash ashore? The young boy look
down at the star fish in his hand and exclaimed, it makes a difference
to this one.

Moral of story, one-at-a-time.

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of hrdtduck
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 12:14 PM
To: 'Jeff Edes'; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them change...I've
tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not work....beating
them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to catch...I am not
sure there is anything that can be done...the main reason I started
riding mountain bikes back in the early 80s

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Edes
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately
endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own
roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no
right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law.
Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the
first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand
against this behavior.

Jeff Edes
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

hrdtduck

Short of shooting them in the head...how can we make them change...I've
tried nearly everything else...polite discourse does not work....beating
them up feels really good...but most are darn hard to catch...I am not sure
there is anything that can be done...the main reason I started riding
mountain bikes back in the early 80s

-----Original Message-----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Jeff Edes
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 10:21 AM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Another near miss? Or mis-judgement?

These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately
endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own
roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no
right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law. Keep
us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the first to help
out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand against this behavior.

Jeff Edes
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Jeff Edes

These drivers need to realize that they have no right to deliberately endanger law abiding citizens. We are getting hurt and killed on our own roads, by people that have somehow convinced themselves that we have no right to be there. Prosecute this person to the full extent of the law. Keep us posted... if you have legal fees to deal with I will be the first to help out. Every cyclist on the road needs to take a stand against this behavior.

Jeff Edes