Andre Pinter

I know I am jumping on this thread bandwagon like buying a fixed gear bike in 2009 but seriously, did anyone really expect something to be easy that's associated with Petr and Erik Tonkin?

I had an excellent time, and I don't doubt that it was pretty savage on a lot of people. It was totally savage on me, I had to try and run with my right leg straight because my quad was cramping so bad by the end, but that's what mountain bike racing is all about. It's not like Mike 'The Ripper' had to apologize for TOE 2007 where it rained for all 6 hours of my brutally slow race with my brakes dragging the whole way.

And it builds character.

Mike Szwaya

Friends-

Before this degenerates to an ugly thread, take a moment before you hit the 'post' or 'reply' button. Derogatory or insuting posts aren't helping us get anywhere. If we want to help the promoter put on a great event, calling each other a wuss or douche is more likely to leave them with a 'f** it, I don't need this' attitude. We need them as much as they need us.

It would probably help Petr next time to know: a) if the snow was too much/too little/just right, b) if you'd go if the event got pushed out x weeks or a month (like last year), and c) what he could have told you ahead of time to make the race better.

Personally, I expected a little snow, just not quite that much. I don't mind every once in a while but after mile 12 or so, I (and others around me) were tired of it. It seemed like a great course but the snow really took away from it. I would have been glad to go later in the year during another open weekend.

Evan Plews

Again, the point was not the conditions but that we were mislead and not given the information necessary to make the RIGHT decision for OURSELVES. Those of you who had fun and felt like you got what you paid for--ROCK ON!

My hat is off to each one of you and I just wish I hadn't been there to "rain on your parade"!

________________________________
> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:25:58 -0700
> From: patsspott@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front
>
>
>
>
> Really. the race was on the back side of Mt. Hood. You didn't think that there would be any snow? If your kid is going to whine as much as you maybe try road bikes. The race was hard and now I have a dirty bike and muddy shoes. What else would you expect from a mtb race? If you don't want to ride in snow and mud you might want to think about riding later in the year.
>
> Patrick
>
>
> Date
> 04/27/2009 11:51 AM
>
> From
> Jason Shucker
>
>
> Don, with all due respect, you're a douche. Actually I take back the respect part, you're just a douche!
>
> What about 10-12 year kids who raced Don? I guess they should 'grow up' and just ignore the cold and learn to ride in the snow? Because everyone in the state gets a chance to ride in snow Nov-March. (sarcasm!) There are some parents who drove 6+ hours round trip just because their kids wanted to race, because they love Mt Biking. However, to have a course that is half covered in snow and to have them "ride" in those elements without notice is ridiculous and irresponsible of the race promoter! Coming prepared for the weather is one thing (rain, cold, sun, heat, etc) and should be left up to the racer. However not to take the 15 seconds to send out a quick e-mail to say 'hey, we worked our asses off, but the course is still covered in 50% of snow, come prepared and be prepared to walk" Would have solved all these issues. I can guarantee why the promoter didn't do that though, $$$$$. You put
> out an e-mail that your course sucks, no one is
> going to come. Instead quite a few people wasted a day they could have stayed at home, and actually RODE their bikes and saved the money they spent on gas, food, race entry fee, etc just so they could push their bikes in the snow. Do you have kids, Don? Imagine if it were your 10yr old out there struggling in those conditions with ice on his shoes, shivering away because a careless promoter failed to send out a quick e-mail to say, 'hey you'll be walking alot in the snow". My guess is you'd have a MUCH different opinion.
>
> You're right, schedules are prepared months in advance. And we don't have control over how much snow we get, or how fast it melts. What do we have control over? Notifying people of the facts. The promoter failed to do so, and wasted the Sunday of quite a few people.
>
> ________________________________
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "Don Leet"
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:06:29 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front
>
> It is time for you whiney mountain bikers to either grow up or become
> roadies. That was a great race. If you can't ride in the snow maybe
> you should learn. Mountain biking is an outdoor sport. I live in Bend
> and ride 12 months a year. I was out this winter in 15 degrees, and 8
> inches of snow. What an adventure that was. Yesterday was like a walk
> in the park. I have many friends who mountain bike in Great Britain.
> Yesterday would have been the best conditions they would have had all
> year. I have been racing mountain bikes for over 25 years and I am
> constantly amazed at what people expect. Schedules are drawn up months
> in advance, we don't have much say in how fast snow melts or how much
> it snows. Go out and have fun,
> revel in the unexpected, be challenged
> by the conditions.
> Don Leet
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
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Patrick Jackson

Really.  the race was on the back side of Mt. Hood.  You didn't think that there would be any snow?  If your kid is going to whine as much as you maybe try road bikes.  The race was hard and now I have a dirty bike and muddy shoes.  What else would you expect from a mtb race?  If you don't want to ride in snow and mud you might want to think about riding later in the year. 

Patrick

Date
04/27/2009 11:51 AM
From
Jason Shucker

Don, with all due respect, you're a douche.  Actually I take back the respect part, you're just a douche!
What about 10-12 year kids who raced Don?  I guess they should 'grow up' and just ignore the cold and learn to ride in the snow?  Because everyone in the state gets a chance to ride in snow Nov-March.  (sarcasm!) There are some parents who drove 6+ hours round trip just because their kids wanted to race, because they love Mt Biking.  However, to have a course that is half covered in snow and to have them "ride" in those elements without notice is ridiculous and irresponsible of the race promoter!  Coming prepared for the weather is one thing (rain, cold, sun, heat, etc) and should be left up to the racer.  However not to take the 15 seconds to send out a quick e-mail to say 'hey, we worked our asses off, but the course is still covered in 50% of snow, come prepared and be prepared to walk" Would have solved all these issues.  I can guarantee why the promoter didn't do that though, $$$$$.  You put out an e-mail that your course sucks, no one is
going to come.  Instead quite a few people wasted a day they could have stayed at home, and actually RODE their bikes and saved the money they spent on gas, food, race entry fee, etc just so they could push their bikes in the snow.  Do you have kids, Don?  Imagine if it were your 10yr old out there struggling in those conditions with ice on his shoes, shivering away because a careless promoter failed to send out a quick e-mail to say, 'hey you'll be walking alot in the snow".  My guess is you'd have a MUCH different opinion.
You're right, schedules are prepared months in advance.  And we don't have control over how much snow we get, or how fast it melts.  What do we have control over?  Notifying people of the facts.  The promoter failed to do so, and wasted the Sunday of quite a few people. 
________________________________
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Don Leet"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:06:29 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front
It is time for you whiney mountain bikers to either grow up or become  
roadies. That was a great race. If you can't ride in the snow maybe  
you should learn. Mountain biking is an outdoor sport. I live in Bend  
and ride 12 months a year. I was out this winter in 15 degrees, and 8  
inches of snow. What an adventure that was. Yesterday was like a walk  
in the park. I have many friends who mountain bike in Great Britain.  
Yesterday would have been the best conditions they would have had all  
year. I have been racing mountain bikes for over 25 years and I am  
constantly amazed at what people expect. Schedules are drawn up months  
in advance, we don't have much say in how fast snow melts or how much  
it snows. Go out and have fun, revel in the unexpected, be challenged  
by the conditions.
Don Leet
  
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

David Rosen

just out of curiosity, for everyone that is currently complaining: were you at the race yesterday and if so which course did you do? I raced the cat 2 race and although there was quite a bit of snow, the course was in good shape. I heard the Pro/ SS course was considerably tougher. That being said, I did not see or hear of one person complaining in any sort of vocal manner. In fact, everyone looked like they had a good time.

The drive to the race (from Portland over Mt Hood) really made me consider turning around, but when I got to the venue conditions had improved dramatically.

All I am saying is that if you were not at the race be mindful of what you write in your posts since you do not have first hand experience/ knowledge of what the race was really about.

Definitely a great race in my opinion.
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Fischler

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 12:02:20
To:
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front

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Ben Fischler

I agree with the fair warning bit. If conditions are lousy an email to all
registered riders is what should happen.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:51 AM, Jason Shucker wrote:

> Don, with all due respect, you're a douche. Actually I take back the
> respect part, you're just a douche!
>
> What about 10-12 year kids who raced Don? I guess they should 'grow up'
> and just ignore the cold and learn to ride in the snow? Because everyone in
> the state gets a chance to ride in snow Nov-March. (sarcasm!) There are
> some parents who drove 6+ hours round trip just because their kids wanted to
> race, because they love Mt Biking. However, to have a course that is half
> covered in snow and to have them "ride" in those elements without notice is
> ridiculous and irresponsible of the race promoter! Coming prepared for the
> weather is one thing (rain, cold, sun, heat, etc) and should be left up to
> the racer. However not to take the 15 seconds to send out a quick e-mail to
> say 'hey, we worked our asses off, but the course is still covered in 50% of
> snow, come prepared and be prepared to walk" Would have solved all these
> issues. I can guarantee why the promoter didn't do that though, $$$$$. You
> put out an e-mail that your course sucks, no one is going to come. Instead
> quite a few people wasted a day they could have stayed at home, and actually
> RODE their bikes and saved the money they spent on gas, food, race entry
> fee, etc just so they could push their bikes in the snow. Do you have kids,
> Don? Imagine if it were your 10yr old out there struggling in those
> conditions with ice on his shoes, shivering away because a careless promoter
> failed to send out a quick e-mail to say, 'hey you'll be walking alot in the
> snow". My guess is you'd have a MUCH different opinion.
>
> You're right, schedules are prepared months in advance. And we don't have
> control over how much snow we get, or how fast it melts. What do we have
> control over? Notifying people of the facts. The promoter failed to do so,
> and wasted the Sunday of quite a few people.
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message -----
> From: "Don Leet"
> Cc: obra@list.obra.org
> Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:06:29 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front
>
> It is time for you whiney mountain bikers to either grow up or become
> roadies. That was a great race. If you can't ride in the snow maybe
> you should learn. Mountain biking is an outdoor sport. I live in Bend
> and ride 12 months a year. I was out this winter in 15 degrees, and 8
> inches of snow. What an adventure that was. Yesterday was like a walk
> in the park. I have many friends who mountain bike in Great Britain.
> Yesterday would have been the best conditions they would have had all
> year. I have been racing mountain bikes for over 25 years and I am
> constantly amazed at what people expect. Schedules are drawn up months
> in advance, we don't have much say in how fast snow melts or how much
> it snows. Go out and have fun, revel in the unexpected, be challenged
> by the conditions.
> Don Leet
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

--
-Ben

VFX Supe
Laika

[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

Jason Shucker

Don, with all due respect, you're a douche.  Actually I take back the respect part, you're just a douche!

What about 10-12 year kids who raced Don?  I guess they should 'grow up' and just ignore the cold and learn to ride in the snow?  Because everyone in the state gets a chance to ride in snow Nov-March.  (sarcasm!) There are some parents who drove 6+ hours round trip just because their kids wanted to race, because they love Mt Biking.  However, to have a course that is half covered in snow and to have them "ride" in those elements without notice is ridiculous and irresponsible of the race promoter!  Coming prepared for the weather is one thing (rain, cold, sun, heat, etc) and should be left up to the racer.  However not to take the 15 seconds to send out a quick e-mail to say 'hey, we worked our asses off, but the course is still covered in 50% of snow, come prepared and be prepared to walk" Would have solved all these issues.  I can guarantee why the promoter didn't do that though, $$$$$.  You put out an e-mail that your course sucks, no one is
going to come.  Instead quite a few people wasted a day they could have stayed at home, and actually RODE their bikes and saved the money they spent on gas, food, race entry fee, etc just so they could push their bikes in the snow.  Do you have kids, Don?  Imagine if it were your 10yr old out there struggling in those conditions with ice on his shoes, shivering away because a careless promoter failed to send out a quick e-mail to say, 'hey you'll be walking alot in the snow".  My guess is you'd have a MUCH different opinion.

You're right, schedules are prepared months in advance.  And we don't have control over how much snow we get, or how fast it melts.  What do we have control over?  Notifying people of the facts.  The promoter failed to do so, and wasted the Sunday of quite a few people. 

________________________________

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Don Leet"
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 11:06:29 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front

It is time for you whiney mountain bikers to either grow up or become  
roadies. That was a great race. If you can't ride in the snow maybe  
you should learn. Mountain biking is an outdoor sport. I live in Bend  
and ride 12 months a year. I was out this winter in 15 degrees, and 8  
inches of snow. What an adventure that was. Yesterday was like a walk  
in the park. I have many friends who mountain bike in Great Britain.  
Yesterday would have been the best conditions they would have had all  
year. I have been racing mountain bikes for over 25 years and I am  
constantly amazed at what people expect. Schedules are drawn up months  
in advance, we don't have much say in how fast snow melts or how much  
it snows. Go out and have fun, revel in the unexpected, be challenged  
by the conditions.
Don Leet
  
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Ben Fischler

Amen. Sanitized mountain bike racing sucks.

On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Don Leet wrote:

> It is time for you whiney mountain bikers to either grow up or become
> roadies. That was a great race. If you can't ride in the snow maybe you
> should learn. Mountain biking is an outdoor sport. I live in Bend and ride
> 12 months a year. I was out this winter in 15 degrees, and 8 inches of snow.
> What an adventure that was. Yesterday was like a walk in the park. I have
> many friends who mountain bike in Great Britain. Yesterday would have been
> the best conditions they would have had all year. I have been racing
> mountain bikes for over 25 years and I am constantly amazed at what people
> expect. Schedules are drawn up months in advance, we don't have much say in
> how fast snow melts or how much it snows. Go out and have fun, revel in the
> unexpected, be challenged by the conditions.
> Don Leet
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

--
-Ben

VFX Supe
Laika

[ ben.fischler@gmail.com ]

clay161@juno.com

You know, this is a stark reminder that we are not in control. I'm just thankful that I can get on a bike and go, that I can share that ability/freedom with others - I'm thankful for those who do their best to put on events irregardless of how well it goes, what the weather is doing, the course etc. Yes, there will always be room for improvement, the journey would be boring if there wasn't. Hey, an off day on a bike is better than the greatest day working in an office building etc etc.

Clay
____________________________________________________________
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Don Leet

It is time for you whiney mountain bikers to either grow up or become
roadies. That was a great race. If you can't ride in the snow maybe
you should learn. Mountain biking is an outdoor sport. I live in Bend
and ride 12 months a year. I was out this winter in 15 degrees, and 8
inches of snow. What an adventure that was. Yesterday was like a walk
in the park. I have many friends who mountain bike in Great Britain.
Yesterday would have been the best conditions they would have had all
year. I have been racing mountain bikes for over 25 years and I am
constantly amazed at what people expect. Schedules are drawn up months
in advance, we don't have much say in how fast snow melts or how much
it snows. Go out and have fun, revel in the unexpected, be challenged
by the conditions.
Don Leet

Ron and Dorothy Strasser

You are so right Rick!
I say the perfect course always is picked up and tidy, perfect temp. is a must, no climbing or sketchy descending, no mud or snow, the perfect start time, everyone gets an award (the winners just get better ones), everyone also wins cycling component or clothing worth with at least a $200 value, not just a free massage but a free hour long massage, free beverage of your choice and if you are too tired after the race a place to nap before you head home.
Every race has challenges for not just the ones racing, but also the ones putting the race on. I would have preferred less snow, but it was the same for everyone that raced. Maybe everyone learned from this and positive outcomes will take place.
Now for me... I am not picky but I do have serious concerns about all that dust at the Chainbreaker and Pickett's... it is just so dusty you know. The Mudslinger has been so messy in the past. Falls City... if they could just remove the mountain it takes place on it would be so much more appealing. That Jedi race and Oakridge (ah the past) have that nasty poison oak. It is just one battle after another against nature. It is never perfect and one could gripe about anything. Makes the velodrome look like a cozy little place to buzz around.
Can of worms now open even though my thoughts are to just get over it and move on. Or just tell Petr himself that you thought there was too much snow instead of griping here. He is the one putting the race on and would I assume listen to peoples concerns.
Just my inflated dollar's worth.
ron
----- Original Message -----
From: Rick C Johnson
To: Like toPedal
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front

Ha-ha-ha-ha!
Here we go again!

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

Like toPedal wrote:
i would like to encourage promoters to be up front and open about any extraordinary conditions of their races. thereby allowing racers to properly prepare for those extraordinary elements in your race.

Bear Springs had way too much snow. that should have been clearly pointed out in the days before the event.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Rick C Johnson

Ha-ha-ha-ha!
Here we go again!

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

"Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana

Like toPedal wrote:

> i would like to encourage promoters to be up front and open about any
> extraordinary conditions of their races. thereby allowing racers to
> properly prepare for those extraordinary elements in your race.
>
> Bear Springs had way too much snow. that should have been clearly
> pointed out in the days before the event.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>OBRA mailing list
>obra@list.obra.org
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>
>

Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team

I can promis no snow for the Jedi. :)

Cliff McCann
Pistis Ministries
Pistis.us
541-659-4104

> From: joec@aracnet.com
> To: luelling@gmail.com
> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:37:15 -0700
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front
>
> must... control... fingers... of... rage...
>
> On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 16:38 +0000, luelling@gmail.com wrote:
> > I agree. I prefer to ride my bike, not run and had I known how much
> > snow was on the course I would have skipped this race.
> >
> > Brett
> >
> > On Apr 27, 2009 9:31am, Like toPedal
> > wrote:
> > > i would like to encourage promoters to be up front and open about
> > any extraordinary conditions of their races. thereby allowing racers
> > to properly prepare for those extraordinary elements in your race.
> > >
> > > Bear Springs had way too much snow. that should have been clearly
> > pointed out in the days before the event.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > OBRA mailing list
> > obra@list.obra.org
> > http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> > Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

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joe cipale

must... control... fingers... of... rage...

On Mon, 2009-04-27 at 16:38 +0000, luelling@gmail.com wrote:
> I agree. I prefer to ride my bike, not run and had I known how much
> snow was on the course I would have skipped this race.
>
> Brett
>
> On Apr 27, 2009 9:31am, Like toPedal
> wrote:
> > i would like to encourage promoters to be up front and open about
> any extraordinary conditions of their races. thereby allowing racers
> to properly prepare for those extraordinary elements in your race.
> >
> > Bear Springs had way too much snow. that should have been clearly
> pointed out in the days before the event.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

luelling@gmail.com

I agree. I prefer to ride my bike, not run and had I known how much snow
was on the course I would have skipped this race.

Brett

On Apr 27, 2009 9:31am, Like toPedal wrote:
> i would like to encourage promoters to be up front and open about any
> extraordinary conditions of their races. thereby allowing racers to
> properly prepare for those extraordinary elements in your race.

> Bear Springs had way too much snow. that should have been clearly pointed
> out in the days before the event.

gary johnson

Oh please, really?

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 09:31:50 -0700
From: like2pedal@rocketmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] up front

i would like to encourage promoters to be up front and open about any extraordinary conditions of their races. thereby allowing racers to properly prepare for those extraordinary elements in your race.

Bear Springs had way too much snow. that should have been clearly pointed out in the days before the event.

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Like toPedal

i would like to encourage promoters to be up front and open about any extraordinary conditions of their races. thereby allowing racers to properly prepare for those extraordinary elements in your race.

Bear Springs had way too much snow. that should have been clearly pointed out in the days before the event.