Long, Steve

Maybe they'll cancel a stage in the Le Tour this summer if there's snow
too.

________________________________

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Like toPedal
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 3:54 PM
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

Craig has hit the nail on the head. you want more racers you need kids.
you want kids, stop promoting these races with awful conditions. put on
the races in the summer when a kid can wear a pair of shorts and a short
sleeve jersey!

next week is our state champs and the world cup is on round #2. what!

put the races on in the summer!!

you do that and my family will have 3 racers instead of 1. you do that
and it will be 4 of us eating and shopping in your towns instead of 2.
you do that and you'll have 2 future juniors to pay for years to come.
this early season business has got to stop.

RESPECTFULLY!!!!

________________________________

From: craig austin
To: "obra@list.obra.org"
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 3:41:37 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

I wasn't at the race yesterday. Before you ridicule me for making a
comment when I skipped the race, I'll tell you why: that race was held
about six weeks too early to be a legitimate mountain bike race. We have
this discussion every year, and last year the overwhelming majority of
people who commented were asking for mountain bike races to be held
later in the year. As a promoter, what more could you ask for than free
market research from your target audience? I know Petr doesn't read this
list but other promoters do.

Then this year it started in February.

Mountain bike race attendance is not healthy in Oregon. It's not 1990s
level anywhere, but Oregon's seems to be particularly anemic. The race
promoters I've spoken with have always said the same thing: "No one
wants to race in summer, attendance drops way off." They're correct
about numbers dropping off, but--and I'm just speaking for myself
here--not about people not WANTING to race. By the time good weather
hits, the mountain bike season is three or four months old. I've hiked
my bike through unrideable mud for three months already and am tired of
it. I believe that, if we could ever convince the race promoters to just
hold off on the start of MTB season till May or even June, they'd see
bigger attendance than they've seen in years. People would be impatient
to start, families could come along and hang out, kids would be more
likely to race.

And for you promoters, here's the most important comment yet, from
Susan:

"I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as
well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided
that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions,
I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event."

The promoters' stubbornness and insistence that races be held so early
in the season are killing mountain bike racing in Oregon.

I know, someone will chime in with "if you want races in the summer,
promote them!" You're missing the point. I'm not a promoter, I'm a
customer. I'm telling you what I want to spend my money on. I chose not
to race Bear Springs and I choose not to race Mudslinger because, fond
as I am of mud and that course, that course is typically not rideable
this time of year. There will still be plenty of mud on those trails in
a month, but it won't have miles of hike-a-bike like it will now.

Mountain bike promoters would do well to heed the lessons of the
cyclocross race series. 'Cross is not successful just because it's held
in rain-soaked mud pits -- it's successful because it's done during the
BEST time of year for that type of racing. Put the 'Cross Crusade in
mid-summer and it's a different story. I don't want easy races, I just
want to ride my bike more than push it.

Please, please, please give us racers a chance to prove we'll show up in
mountain bike season. In western Oregon, that's June, July, and August.

Craig Austin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: susansherman
Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front BS
To: obra@list.obra.org

Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this
way. And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.

This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go
because it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year,
the upper reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly
annoying. I found yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.

I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely whine
about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to snowshoes
and gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections of trail
were obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and detracted
significantly from the fun of the event.

Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that
blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did feel
misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm happy to
see it benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon. I fully
appreciate the effort Petr and others put into making the race a reality
and all the work that did go into clearing the course. But
seriously--this is mountain bike race--that implies to me that dirt is
the primary surface that my tires will contact. And this is April--on
Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan a mountain bike race? When
there's that much snow remaining, I think the choices are: cancel,
postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so racers can arrive
with suitable equipment and clothing.

I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually
enjoy myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I
consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well
as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that
not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I
also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.

Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did
have fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did have
a great time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in
conditions of my choosing.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Heather VanValkenburg

Question. I use gmail. Is there any option to block any further threads of
the same conversation? No reason... just curious...:)

On 4/28/09, Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
wrote:
>
> I have not seen anything. I would love to find out what town that is in. I
> am looking to get a place to camp or motel for 40+ people
>
> Cliff McCann
> Pistis Ministries
> Pistis.us
> 541-659-4104
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: dirtsurf@ykwc.net
> To: mountainbikepros@msn.com; useyourdagger@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:34:34 -0700
>
> Speaking of coast hills, is there any info out there, in particular what
> town?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
> *To:* useyourdagger@gmail.com ; obra@list.obra.org
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:24 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS
>
>
> Hey Craig, I won't ask you to put on a race. Just show up at the races that
> are in the weather you like. So, I look forward to seeing you at the Jedi,
> Coast Hills and Diamond Lake.
>
> Cliff McCann
> Pistis Ministries
> Pistis.us
> 541-659-4104
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:41:37 -0700
> From: useyourdagger@gmail.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS
>
> I wasn't at the race yesterday. Before you ridicule me for making a comment
> when I skipped the race, I'll tell you why: that race was held about six
> weeks too early to be a legitimate mountain bike race. We have this
> discussion every year, and last year the overwhelming majority of people who
> commented were asking for mountain bike races to be held later in the year.
> As a promoter, what more could you ask for than free market research from
> your target audience? I know Petr doesn't read this list but other promoters
> do.
>
> Then this year it started in February.
>
> Mountain bike race attendance is not healthy in Oregon. It's not 1990s
> level anywhere, but Oregon's seems to be particularly anemic. The race
> promoters I've spoken with have always said the same thing: "No one wants to
> race in summer, attendance drops way off." They're correct about numbers
> dropping off, but--and I'm just speaking for myself here--not about people
> not WANTING to race. By the time good weather hits, the mountain bike
> season is three or four months old. I've hiked my bike through unrideable
> mud for three months already and am tired of it. I believe that, if we could
> ever convince the race promoters to just hold off on the start of MTB season
> till May or even June, they'd see bigger attendance than they've seen in
> years. People would be impatient to start, families could come along and
> hang out, kids would be more likely to race.
>
> And for you promoters, here's the most important comment yet, from Susan:
>
> "I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well
> as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not
> only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not
> want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event."
>
> The promoters' stubbornness and insistence that races be held so early in
> the season are killing mountain bike racing in Oregon.
>
> I know, someone will chime in with "if you want races in the summer,
> promote them!" You're missing the point. I'm not a promoter, I'm a customer.
> I'm telling you what I want to spend my money on. I chose not to race Bear
> Springs and I choose not to race Mudslinger because, fond as I am of mud and
> that course, that course is typically not rideable this time of year. There
> will still be plenty of mud on those trails in a month, but it won't have
> miles of hike-a-bike like it will now.
>
> Mountain bike promoters would do well to heed the lessons of the cyclocross
> race series. 'Cross is not successful just because it's held in rain-soaked
> mud pits -- it's successful because it's done during the BEST time of year
> for that type of racing. Put the 'Cross Crusade in mid-summer and it's a
> different story. I don't want easy races, I just want to ride my bike more
> than push it.
>
> Please, please, please give us racers a chance to prove we'll show up in
> mountain bike season. In western Oregon, that's June, July, and August.
>
> Craig Austin
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: *susansherman*
> Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front BS
> To: obra@list.obra.org
>
>
> Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this way.
> And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.
>
> This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go because
> it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year, the upper
> reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly annoying. I found
> yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.
>
> I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely whine
> about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to snowshoes and
> gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections of trail were
> obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and detracted
> significantly from the fun of the event.
>
> Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that
> blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did feel
> misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm happy to see it
> benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon. I fully appreciate the
> effort Petr and others put into making the race a reality and all the work
> that did go into clearing the course. But seriously--this is mountain bike
> race--that implies to me that dirt is the primary surface that my tires will
> contact. And this is April--on Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan
> a mountain bike race? When there's that much snow remaining, I think the
> choices are: cancel, postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so
> racers can arrive with suitable equipment and clothing.
>
> I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually enjoy
> myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I consider
> myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters.
> But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I
> likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to
> race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.
>
> Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did have
> fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did have a great
> time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in conditions of my
> choosing.
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check
> it out.
> ------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you. Check it out.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>

Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team

I have not seen anything. I would love to find out what town that is in. I am looking to get a place to camp or motel for 40+ people

Cliff McCann
Pistis Ministries
Pistis.us
541-659-4104

From: dirtsurf@ykwc.net
To: mountainbikepros@msn.com; useyourdagger@gmail.com; obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 07:34:34 -0700

Speaking of coast hills, is there any info out there, in particular what town?

----- Original Message -----
From: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
To: useyourdagger@gmail.com ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

Hey Craig, I won't ask you to put on a race. Just show up at the races that are in the weather you like. So, I look forward to seeing you at the Jedi, Coast Hills and Diamond Lake.

Cliff McCann
Pistis Ministries
Pistis.us
541-659-4104

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:41:37 -0700
From: useyourdagger@gmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

I wasn't at the race yesterday. Before you ridicule me for making a comment when I skipped the race, I'll tell you why: that race was held about six weeks too early to be a legitimate mountain bike race. We have this discussion every year, and last year the overwhelming majority of people who commented were asking for mountain bike races to be held later in the year. As a promoter, what more could you ask for than free market research from your target audience? I know Petr doesn't read this list but other promoters do.

Then this year it started in February.

Mountain bike race attendance is not healthy in Oregon. It's not 1990s level anywhere, but Oregon's seems to be particularly anemic. The race promoters I've spoken with have always said the same thing: "No one wants to race in summer, attendance drops way off." They're correct about numbers dropping off, but--and I'm just speaking for myself here--not about people not WANTING to race. By the time good weather hits, the mountain bike season is three or four months old. I've hiked my bike through unrideable mud for three months already and am tired of it. I believe that, if we could ever convince the race promoters to just hold off on the start of MTB season till May or even June, they'd see bigger attendance than they've seen in years. People would be impatient to start, families could come along and hang out, kids would be more likely to race.

And for you promoters, here's the most important comment yet, from Susan:

"I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event."

The promoters' stubbornness and insistence that races be held so early in the season are killing mountain bike racing in Oregon.

I know, someone will chime in with "if you want races in the summer, promote them!" You're missing the point. I'm not a promoter, I'm a customer. I'm telling you what I want to spend my money on. I chose not to race Bear Springs and I choose not to race Mudslinger because, fond as I am of mud and that course, that course is typically not rideable this time of year. There will still be plenty of mud on those trails in a month, but it won't have miles of hike-a-bike like it will now.

Mountain bike promoters would do well to heed the lessons of the cyclocross race series. 'Cross is not successful just because it's held in rain-soaked mud pits -- it's successful because it's done during the BEST time of year for that type of racing. Put the 'Cross Crusade in mid-summer and it's a different story. I don't want easy races, I just want to ride my bike more than push it.

Please, please, please give us racers a chance to prove we'll show up in mountain bike season. In western Oregon, that's June, July, and August.

Craig Austin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: susansherman
Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front BS
To: obra@list.obra.org

Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this way. And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.

This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go because it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year, the upper reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly annoying. I found yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.

I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely whine about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to snowshoes and gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections of trail were obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and detracted significantly from the fun of the event.

Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did feel misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm happy to see it benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon. I fully appreciate the effort Petr and others put into making the race a reality and all the work that did go into clearing the course. But seriously--this is mountain bike race--that implies to me that dirt is the primary surface that my tires will contact. And this is April--on Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan a mountain bike race? When there's that much snow remaining, I think the choices are: cancel, postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so racers can arrive with suitable equipment and clothing.

I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually enjoy myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.

Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did have fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did have a great time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in conditions of my choosing.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check it out.

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail®: Get e-mail storage that grows with you.
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage2_042009

david baker

Speaking of coast hills, is there any info out there, in particular what town?
----- Original Message -----
From: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
To: useyourdagger@gmail.com ; obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 7:24 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

Hey Craig, I won't ask you to put on a race. Just show up at the races that are in the weather you like. So, I look forward to seeing you at the Jedi, Coast Hills and Diamond Lake.

Cliff McCann
Pistis Ministries
Pistis.us
541-659-4104

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:41:37 -0700
From: useyourdagger@gmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

I wasn't at the race yesterday. Before you ridicule me for making a comment when I skipped the race, I'll tell you why: that race was held about six weeks too early to be a legitimate mountain bike race. We have this discussion every year, and last year the overwhelming majority of people who commented were asking for mountain bike races to be held later in the year. As a promoter, what more could you ask for than free market research from your target audience? I know Petr doesn't read this list but other promoters do.

Then this year it started in February.

Mountain bike race attendance is not healthy in Oregon. It's not 1990s level anywhere, but Oregon's seems to be particularly anemic. The race promoters I've spoken with have always said the same thing: "No one wants to race in summer, attendance drops way off." They're correct about numbers dropping off, but--and I'm just speaking for myself here--not about people not WANTING to race. By the time good weather hits, the mountain bike season is three or four months old. I've hiked my bike through unrideable mud for three months already and am tired of it. I believe that, if we could ever convince the race promoters to just hold off on the start of MTB season till May or even June, they'd see bigger attendance than they've seen in years. People would be impatient to start, families could come along and hang out, kids would be more likely to race.

And for you promoters, here's the most important comment yet, from Susan:

"I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event."

The promoters' stubbornness and insistence that races be held so early in the season are killing mountain bike racing in Oregon.

I know, someone will chime in with "if you want races in the summer, promote them!" You're missing the point. I'm not a promoter, I'm a customer. I'm telling you what I want to spend my money on. I chose not to race Bear Springs and I choose not to race Mudslinger because, fond as I am of mud and that course, that course is typically not rideable this time of year. There will still be plenty of mud on those trails in a month, but it won't have miles of hike-a-bike like it will now.

Mountain bike promoters would do well to heed the lessons of the cyclocross race series. 'Cross is not successful just because it's held in rain-soaked mud pits -- it's successful because it's done during the BEST time of year for that type of racing. Put the 'Cross Crusade in mid-summer and it's a different story. I don't want easy races, I just want to ride my bike more than push it.

Please, please, please give us racers a chance to prove we'll show up in mountain bike season. In western Oregon, that's June, July, and August.

Craig Austin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: susansherman
Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front BS
To: obra@list.obra.org

Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this way. And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.

This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go because it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year, the upper reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly annoying. I found yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.

I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely whine about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to snowshoes and gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections of trail were obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and detracted significantly from the fun of the event.

Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did feel misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm happy to see it benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon. I fully appreciate the effort Petr and others put into making the race a reality and all the work that did go into clearing the course. But seriously--this is mountain bike race--that implies to me that dirt is the primary surface that my tires will contact. And this is April--on Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan a mountain bike race? When there's that much snow remaining, I think the choices are: cancel, postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so racers can arrive with suitable equipment and clothing.

I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually enjoy myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.

Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did have fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did have a great time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in conditions of my choosing.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox. Check it out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team

Hey Craig, I won't ask you to put on a race. Just show up at the races that are in the weather you like. So, I look forward to seeing you at the Jedi, Coast Hills and Diamond Lake.

Cliff McCann
Pistis Ministries
Pistis.us
541-659-4104

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 15:41:37 -0700
From: useyourdagger@gmail.com
To: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

I wasn't at the race yesterday. Before you ridicule me for making a comment when I skipped the race, I'll tell you why: that race was held about six weeks too early to be a legitimate mountain bike race. We have this discussion every year, and last year the overwhelming majority of people who commented were asking for mountain bike races to be held later in the year. As a promoter, what more could you ask for than free market research from your target audience? I know Petr doesn't read this list but other promoters do.

Then this year it started in February.

Mountain bike race attendance is not healthy in Oregon. It's not 1990s level anywhere, but Oregon's seems to be particularly anemic. The race promoters I've spoken with have always said the same thing: "No one wants to race in summer, attendance drops way off." They're correct about numbers dropping off, but--and I'm just speaking for myself here--not about people not WANTING to race. By the time good weather hits, the mountain bike season is three or four months old. I've hiked my bike through unrideable mud for three months already and am tired of it. I believe that, if we could ever convince the race promoters to just hold off on the start of MTB season till May or even June, they'd see bigger attendance than they've seen in years. People would be impatient to start, families could come along and hang out, kids would be more likely to race.

And for you promoters, here's the most important comment yet, from Susan:

"I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event."

The promoters' stubbornness and insistence that races be held so early in the season are killing mountain bike racing in Oregon.

I know, someone will chime in with "if you want races in the summer, promote them!" You're missing the point. I'm not a promoter, I'm a customer. I'm telling you what I want to spend my money on. I chose not to race Bear Springs and I choose not to race Mudslinger because, fond as I am of mud and that course, that course is typically not rideable this time of year. There will still be plenty of mud on those trails in a month, but it won't have miles of hike-a-bike like it will now.

Mountain bike promoters would do well to heed the lessons of the cyclocross race series. 'Cross is not successful just because it's held in rain-soaked mud pits -- it's successful because it's done during the BEST time of year for that type of racing. Put the 'Cross Crusade in mid-summer and it's a different story. I don't want easy races, I just want to ride my bike more than push it.

Please, please, please give us racers a chance to prove we'll show up in mountain bike season. In western Oregon, that's June, July, and August.

Craig Austin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: susansherman
Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front BS
To: obra@list.obra.org

Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this way. And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.

This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go because it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year, the upper reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly annoying. I found yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.

I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely whine about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to snowshoes and gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections of trail were obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and detracted significantly from the fun of the event.

Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did feel misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm happy to see it benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon. I fully appreciate the effort Petr and others put into making the race a reality and all the work that did go into clearing the course. But seriously--this is mountain bike race--that implies to me that dirt is the primary surface that my tires will contact. And this is April--on Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan a mountain bike race? When there's that much snow remaining, I think the choices are: cancel, postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so racers can arrive with suitable equipment and clothing.

I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually enjoy myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.

Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did have fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did have a great time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in conditions of my choosing.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Rediscover Hotmail®: Get quick friend updates right in your inbox.
http://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Updates2_042009

david baker

Just wait till Echo red to red is state champs in february, oh yeah!
----- Original Message -----
From: Like toPedal
To: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 3:53 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

Craig has hit the nail on the head. you want more racers you need kids. you want kids, stop promoting these races with awful conditions. put on the races in the summer when a kid can wear a pair of shorts and a short sleeve jersey!

next week is our state champs and the world cup is on round #2. what!

put the races on in the summer!!

you do that and my family will have 3 racers instead of 1. you do that and it will be 4 of us eating and shopping in your towns instead of 2. you do that and you'll have 2 future juniors to pay for years to come. this early season business has got to stop.

RESPECTFULLY!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: craig austin
To: "obra@list.obra.org"
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 3:41:37 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

I wasn't at the race yesterday. Before you ridicule me for making a comment when I skipped the race, I'll tell you why: that race was held about six weeks too early to be a legitimate mountain bike race. We have this discussion every year, and last year the overwhelming majority of people who commented were asking for mountain bike races to be held later in the year. As a promoter, what more could you ask for than free market research from your target audience? I know Petr doesn't read this list but other promoters do.

Then this year it started in February.

Mountain bike race attendance is not healthy in Oregon. It's not 1990s level anywhere, but Oregon's seems to be particularly anemic. The race promoters I've spoken with have always said the same thing: "No one wants to race in summer, attendance drops way off." They're correct about numbers dropping off, but--and I'm just speaking for myself here--not about people not WANTING to race. By the time good weather hits, the mountain bike season is three or four months old. I've hiked my bike through unrideable mud for three months already and am tired of it. I believe that, if we could ever convince the race promoters to just hold off on the start of MTB season till May or even June, they'd see bigger attendance than they've seen in years. People would be impatient to start, families could come along and hang out, kids would be more likely to race.

And for you promoters, here's the most important comment yet, from Susan:

"I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event."

The promoters' stubbornness and insistence that races be held so early in the season are killing mountain bike racing in Oregon.

I know, someone will chime in with "if you want races in the summer, promote them!" You're missing the point. I'm not a promoter, I'm a customer. I'm telling you what I want to spend my money on. I chose not to race Bear Springs and I choose not to race Mudslinger because, fond as I am of mud and that course, that course is typically not rideable this time of year. There will still be plenty of mud on those trails in a month, but it won't have miles of hike-a-bike like it will now.

Mountain bike promoters would do well to heed the lessons of the cyclocross race series. 'Cross is not successful just because it's held in rain-soaked mud pits -- it's successful because it's done during the BEST time of year for that type of racing. Put the 'Cross Crusade in mid-summer and it's a different story. I don't want easy races, I just want to ride my bike more than push it.

Please, please, please give us racers a chance to prove we'll show up in mountain bike season. In western Oregon, that's June, July, and August.

Craig Austin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: susansherman
Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front BS
To: obra@list.obra.org

Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this way. And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.

This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go because it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year, the upper reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly annoying. I found yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.

I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely whine about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to snowshoes and gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections of trail were obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and detracted significantly from the fun of the event.

Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did feel misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm happy to see it benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon. I fully appreciate the effort Petr and others put into making the race a reality and all the work that did go into clearing the course. But seriously--this is mountain bike race--that implies to me that dirt is the primary surface that my tires will contact. And this is April--on Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan a mountain bike race? When there's that much snow remaining, I think the choices are: cancel, postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so racers can arrive with suitable equipment and clothing.

I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually enjoy myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.

Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did have fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did have a great time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in conditions of my choosing.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Like toPedal

Craig has hit the nail on the head. you want more racers you need kids. you want kids, stop promoting these races with awful conditions. put on the races in the summer when a kid can wear a pair of shorts and a short sleeve jersey!

next week is our state champs and the world cup is on round #2. what!

put the races on in the summer!!

you do that and my family will have 3 racers instead of 1. you do that and it will be 4 of us eating and shopping in your towns instead of 2. you do that and you'll have 2 future juniors to pay for years to come. this early season business has got to stop.

RESPECTFULLY!!!!

________________________________
From: craig austin
To: "obra@list.obra.org"
Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 3:41:37 PM
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Fwd: up front BS

I wasn't at the race yesterday. Before you ridicule me for making a comment when I skipped the race, I'll tell you why: that race was held about six weeks too early to be a legitimate mountain bike race. We have this discussion every year, and last year the overwhelming majority of people who commented were asking for mountain bike races to be held later in the year. As a promoter, what more could you ask for than free market research from your target audience? I know Petr doesn't read this list but other promoters do.

Then this year it started in February.

Mountain bike race attendance is not healthy in Oregon. It's not 1990s level anywhere, but Oregon's seems to be particularly anemic. The race promoters I've spoken with have always said the same thing: "No one wants to race in summer, attendance drops way off." They're correct about numbers dropping off, but--and I'm just speaking for myself here--not about people not WANTING to race. By the time good weather hits, the mountain bike season is three or four months old. I've hiked my bike through unrideable mud for three months already and am tired of it. I believe that, if we could ever convince the race promoters to just hold off on the start of MTB season till May or even June, they'd see bigger attendance than they've seen in years. People would be impatient to start, families could come along and hang out, kids would be more likely to race.

And for you promoters, here's the most important comment yet, from Susan:

"I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as
well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided
that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions,
I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event."

The promoters' stubbornness and insistence that races be held so early in the season are killing mountain bike racing in Oregon.

I know, someone will chime in with "if you want races in the summer, promote them!" You're missing the point. I'm not a promoter, I'm a customer. I'm telling you what I want to spend my money on. I chose not to race Bear Springs and I choose not to race Mudslinger because, fond as I am of mud and that course, that course is typically not rideable this time of year. There will still be plenty of mud on those trails in a month, but it won't have miles of hike-a-bike like it will now.

Mountain bike promoters would do well to heed the lessons of the cyclocross race series. 'Cross is not successful just because it's held in rain-soaked mud pits -- it's successful because it's done during the BEST time of year for that type of racing. Put the 'Cross Crusade in mid-summer and it's a different story. I don't want easy races, I just want to ride my bike more than push it.

Please, please, please give us racers a chance to prove we'll show up in mountain bike season. In western Oregon, that's June, July, and August.

Craig Austin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: susansherman
Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front BS
To: obra@list.obra.org

Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this way. And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.

This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go because it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year, the upper reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly annoying. I found yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.

I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely whine about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to snowshoes and gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections of trail were obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and detracted significantly from the fun of the event.

Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did feel misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm happy to see it benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon. I fully appreciate the effort Petr and others put into making the race a reality and all the work that did go into clearing the course. But seriously--this is mountain bike race--that implies to me that dirt is the primary surface that my tires will contact. And this is April--on Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan a mountain bike race? When there's that much snow remaining, I think the choices are: cancel, postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so racers can arrive with suitable equipment and clothing.

I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually enjoy myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.

Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did have fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did have a great time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in conditions of my choosing.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

Chris Brandt

I think I've probably raced Bear Springs close to 10 times now. It is
my favorite course to race on because it is always testing you,
non-stop from beginning to end. It's not just about pedaling fitness
and technical skills go a long ways. Some of my best (and worst)
memories have taken place at this venue. You have to overcome an
amazing number of challenges just to finish. If you can come out w/o
any mechanical setbacks, or missed turns, you will have succeeded.
Your placing is pretty much irrelevant.

THIS particular year, I personally feel that the snow conditions
crossed the line. Sure, it was do-able (There is a race called the
Iditabike that makes this one look like a beach vacation.). The part
that was annoying was not having the information up front about what
we were getting ourselves into (a shit ton of snow). I believe that I
did more bike dismounts and mid-race running yesterday than I do in an
entire fall season of cyclocross! Was there not an alternative for
shortening the loop, doing multiple laps, or something? Would that
have required less snow shoveling?

Sure, there are some disgruntled folks. But, who is to say whether
someone can hold a race or not? Who determines whether a particular
course is acceptable? Is there some OBRA rule about this? Must a
course be at least 95% rideable? Is 75% acceptable? 51%? Even THAT is
equivalent to saying "the majority of the course is rideable".
Ultimately, the races continue to be held because the racers show up.
If you don't want to particpate any more in the future, you can vote
by NOT attending.

Who are these race promoters? What would we do without them? Why do
they continue to break their backs (with minimal financial return) for
us whiny bike racers, year after year? As cranky as I became
yesterday, it is hard to express feelings of anger or displeasure
after seeing all the hard work of the volunteers and promoters. The
amount of work that went into this year's race was so obvious to
anyone that raced. Maybe a little more of that energy should have gone
into communication and updates, but that is now in the past.

Personally, I cannot BELIEVE anyone would be willing to put THAT much
effort in just so that we had a chance to race our bikes!?! At what
point would anyone else just throw in the towel and admit defeat,
canceling the race or (ideally) postponing it? As frustrated as I was
during this year's episode of "Which-Wrong-Turn-Shall-I-Make-Next", I
couldn't help but feel amazed at how MUCH work went into opening it.
There must have been close to 75 large conifer trees that had to be
cut through. There must have been piles and piles of branches and
debris on the trail that had to be moved. How many snow drifts where
there? I surely lost count after 100. Regardless of the countless
numbers of un-rideable snow fields (some taking minutes to cross),
that was a truly remarkable feat. 3-4 hours of numb toes is nothing in
comparison.

My thanks again to Petr for the opportunity to race. I respectfully
ask that in the future, some more reasonable "alternative" options be
taken into consideration, and lets improve on the communication a bit.
We all like a good adventure, we just prefer to know what we're
getting ourselves into before-hand. There are so many other things
that can go wrong as it is, just riding out there.

---
Regarding the upcoming Mudslinger.... this is one of the longest
standing, most popular cross country events in OBRA history. Plus,
it's the State Championships! I personally have put a significant
amount of labor into the course, as has Mike Ripley and many other
volunteers from Team Dirt. This year - trust me - you will NOT want to
miss it. Yes, there have been some epic battles in the mud here in
recent editions. For 2009, it is looking very much like it will be one
of the fastest, driest editions ever. This course is so amazing when
it is dry! I have personally ridden it twice in the past couple weeks
and have never before seen it in such awesome shape.
---

Thanks,
Chris Brandt

=========================
Susan Sherman wrote:

Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this
way. And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.
This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go
because it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year,
the upper reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly
annoying. I found yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.
I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely
whine about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to
snowshoes and gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections
of trail were obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and
detracted significantly from the fun of the event.
Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that
blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did
feel misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm
happy to see it benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon.
I fully appreciate the effort Petr and others put into making the race
a reality and all the work that did go into clearing the course. But
seriously--this is mountain bike race--that implies to me that dirt is
the primary surface that my tires will contact. And this is April--on
Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan a mountain bike race?
When there's that much snow remaining, I think the choices are:
cancel, postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so racers
can arrive with suitable equipment and clothing.
I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually
enjoy myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I
consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well
as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that
not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I
also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.
Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did
have fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did
have a great time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in
conditions of my choosing.

craig austin

I wasn't at the race yesterday. Before you ridicule me for making a comment
when I skipped the race, I'll tell you why: that race was held about six
weeks too early to be a legitimate mountain bike race. We have this
discussion every year, and last year the overwhelming majority of people who
commented were asking for mountain bike races to be held later in the year.
As a promoter, what more could you ask for than free market research from
your target audience? I know Petr doesn't read this list but other promoters
do.

Then this year it started in February.

Mountain bike race attendance is not healthy in Oregon. It's not 1990s level
anywhere, but Oregon's seems to be particularly anemic. The race promoters
I've spoken with have always said the same thing: "No one wants to race in
summer, attendance drops way off." They're correct about numbers dropping
off, but--and I'm just speaking for myself here--not about people not
WANTING to race. By the time good weather hits, the mountain bike season is
three or four months old. I've hiked my bike through unrideable mud for
three months already and am tired of it. I believe that, if we could ever
convince the race promoters to just hold off on the start of MTB season till
May or even June, they'd see bigger attendance than they've seen in years.
People would be impatient to start, families could come along and hang out,
kids would be more likely to race.

And for you promoters, here's the most important comment yet, from Susan:

"I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as
promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only
will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want
to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event."

The promoters' stubbornness and insistence that races be held so early in
the season are killing mountain bike racing in Oregon.

I know, someone will chime in with "if you want races in the summer, promote
them!" You're missing the point. I'm not a promoter, I'm a customer. I'm
telling you what I want to spend my money on. I chose not to race Bear
Springs and I choose not to race Mudslinger because, fond as I am of mud and
that course, that course is typically not rideable this time of year. There
will still be plenty of mud on those trails in a month, but it won't have
miles of hike-a-bike like it will now.

Mountain bike promoters would do well to heed the lessons of the cyclocross
race series. 'Cross is not successful just because it's held in rain-soaked
mud pits -- it's successful because it's done during the BEST time of year
for that type of racing. Put the 'Cross Crusade in mid-summer and it's a
different story. I don't want easy races, I just want to ride my bike more
than push it.

Please, please, please give us racers a chance to prove we'll show up in
mountain bike season. In western Oregon, that's June, July, and August.

Craig Austin

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: susansherman
Date: Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front BS
To: obra@list.obra.org

Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this way.
And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.

This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go because
it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year, the upper
reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly annoying. I found
yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.

I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely whine
about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to snowshoes and
gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections of trail were
obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and detracted
significantly from the fun of the event.

Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that
blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did feel
misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm happy to see it
benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon. I fully appreciate the
effort Petr and others put into making the race a reality and all the work
that did go into clearing the course. But seriously--this is mountain bike
race--that implies to me that dirt is the primary surface that my tires will
contact. And this is April--on Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan
a mountain bike race? When there's that much snow remaining, I think the
choices are: cancel, postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so
racers can arrive with suitable equipment and clothing.

I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually enjoy
myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I consider
myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters.
But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I
likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to
race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.

Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did have
fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did have a great
time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in conditions of my
choosing.
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

susansherman

Thank you, Evan! Yesterday I thought I was the only one who felt this way. And yes, David, I covered all 30 miles of the Cat 1 course.

This was my fourth year at BS and I always encourage others to go because it's such a great event and the course is my fave. Last year, the upper reaches of the course had snow in places and was mildly annoying. I found yesterday's conditions to be downright ridiculous.

I'm an adventure racer and am always up for a challenge. I rarely whine about conditions. But yesterday's course was more suited to snowshoes and gaitors than a mountain bike. Some of the best sections of trail were obliterated by snow and that was quite disappointing and detracted significantly from the fun of the event.

Given the posts during the past week, I was under the impression that blowdown was the primary concern on the course, not snow. So I did feel misled about the conditions. I don't want my money back--I'm happy to see it benefit the future of mountain bike racing in Oregon. I fully appreciate the effort Petr and others put into making the race a reality and all the work that did go into clearing the course. But seriously--this is mountain bike race--that implies to me that dirt is the primary surface that my tires will contact. And this is April--on Mt. Hood--is that an appropriate time to plan a mountain bike race? When there's that much snow remaining, I think the choices are: cancel, postpone, shorten the course, or give fair warning so racers can arrive with suitable equipment and clothing.

I had the least fun I've ever had at a mountain bike race. I usually enjoy myself whether I'm first or last, regardless of conditions. I consider myself a good sport and like encouraging other racers as well as promoters. But halfway through the course yesterday, I decided that not only will I likely skip BS next year regardless of conditions, I also do not want to race Mudslinger or any other upcoming event.

Perhaps I'm in the minority and I echo Evan's words to those who did have fun at BS: "rock on!" That's fantastic. I hope most people did have a great time. I'll spend next weekend on my bike, having fun, in conditions of my choosing.