Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing

craig austin

2009-04-28

If I was a promoter reading all of this, I'd put on a couple races in the
summer.

Craig

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 10:57 AM, THOR Man wrote:

> Thats funny.
>
> But seriously. STOP THE WHINING!!! Is this a email list full of grown
> adults or 8 yr olds? Its getting hard to tell these days. Seems like every
> day, every little thing, whine and complain. Are you bored, like to hear
> yourself talk, a drama queen or what? What happened to just racing your bike
> for the kicks and shutting up. Why the drama?
>
> Keep it up though. If i was a promoter reading all this, I would give you
> all the finger. Why would anyone want to put on a race that requires pouring
> their heart and sole into for such ungrateful pre-madonas? And the threaten
> to sue. ARE YOU TRYING TO RUIN RACING IN OREGON ALL TOGEHTER?
>
> Cycling is a sport of you and you bike versus mother nature and her forces.
> Who ever can endure it the best, wins. End of story. Good thing the uci pros
> dont whine like you all, or the sport all together may just end. Ive raced
> in a blizzard at national champs, other races have included snow, hail,
> 30-40 mph wind, 106 degree heat, humidity, dryness, monsoons, swamps,
> through cattle pastures dodging animals, it happens. If you cant take the
> heat, stay out of the kitchen. Like a previous email stated, take up golf,
> of go play a 5yr old basketball, or soe a scarf.
>
> So, in conclusion, if you dont like the race dont show. And if you do race,
> man up and shut up.
>
> THOR ALMIGHTY
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:42:47 -0700
> From: RickCJohnson1@gmail.com
> To: dgrab2002@yahoo.com
> CC: obra@list.obra.org
>
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
>
> That's funny! I think I'll try it when I go out for lunch today -
> "Bring me my food and after I'm done eating it I'll decide if I'm satisfied
> enough to pay you"
>
> Or maybe do some bike shopping -
> "I'll take this bike for a few months and if I like it I'll come back and
> pay you"
>
> I'm sure the business' will understand completely and happily agree...
>
> Rick Johnson
> Bend, Oregon
>
> "We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
> -- Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
> D Grab wrote:
>
> Personally, I think public ridicule of the very small handful of weak,
> character-deficient individuals (especially if they are "elite/pro" racers)
> is a far more effective and entertaining approach.
>
> Of course if we were interested in a more proactive tack, perhaps we can
> ask the promoter's if they would be willing to allow racers to participate
> "on spec" as it were. If you race and like the course and/or do well, then
> you pay the race fees. If the course does not suit your fancy or you fail
> to achieve the result you believe you deserve, then you do not have to pay.
> Seems completely reasonable doesn't it?
>
> --- On *Tue, 4/28/09, Brian Mitchell * wrote:
>
> From: Brian Mitchell
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
> To: "bengelen@comcast.net"
> Cc: "obra@list.obra.org"
> Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 10:04 AM
>
> Hmm, kind of like a "blacklist of un-OBRA-ites"of sorts?!
> Sen. McCarthy would be so proud. . .
>
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2009, at 12:32 PM, "Brian Engelen"
> wrote:
>
> I think that anyone who is likely to sue should be 86’ed from our
> events. And some of those people have shown themselves here. It is just
> poor business to let them continue to put our events at risk.
>
>
>
> “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone”
>
>
>
> Brian E
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Ben Fischler
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:15 AM
> *To:* halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
> *Cc:* OBRA list list; Brian Johnson
> *Subject:* Re: [ OBRA Chat ] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR
> racing
>
>
>
> MTB racing and riding is an adventure sport. Part of the sport is being
> ready for anything, including snow. I've raced in conditions that were "too
> hot" and "too cold" for comfort, and some of those races were in my early
> teens. If all those races had been cancelled due to tender legal feelings
> then I would have missed some of the best rides and best experiences of my
> life.
>
>
>
> Sueing your way out of a lousy race experience does nothing for anyone.
>
> * mobile *
>
> - ben.fischler@gmail.com -
>
> - bfischler@laika.com -
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2009, at 8:46 AM, scott hill wrote:
>
> this is the same crap that killed bike racing in texas for several
> years. if you don't like tough conditions then don't mountain bike, or wait
> till summer. nobody made you race, you drove there on your own and could
> probably see the snow when you got out of your car. i have done some mtb
> races that you had to run 90% of the course because of mud, but you know
> what RACERS RACE their bike and have fun doing it. if you don't like it take
> up golf.
>
>
>
> scott
>
> --- On *Mon, 4/27/09, Brian Johnson * wrote:
>
> From: Brian Johnson
> Subject: [ OBRA Chat ] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 11:33 PM
>
> Message: 3
>
> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:23:58 +0000
>
> From: Evan Plews
>
> Subject: Re: [ OBRA Chat ] up front--BS!
>
>
>
> I must weigh in... this was supreme rip-off.
>
>
>
>
>
> A "supreme rip off"? The tone of your message is so extreme it's baffling!
>
>
>
> The bigger picture is the loss for Oregon racing. Why?
>
>
>
> ***SNIP***
>
>
>
> If SkiBowl will not issue refunds, I would like some of our attorney
> friends to weight in with the possibility of pursuing a collective claim
> through small claims court. I personally will pay any court costs to see
> justice served. Until promoters (even me) are held accountable, we ALL will
> suffer and lose members and events!
>
>
>
> I think that hostile attitudes and whispers of litigation pose more of a
> threat to Oregon racing than early season races with snow on the ground. I
> imagine that the threat of litigation (or the mere involvement of "attorney
> friends") is extremely off-putting and pose yet another unpleasant hurdle to
> staging a race event.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
>
> Evan Plews
>
>
>
> To be fair, I'll have to say that I wish the MTB racing season started in
> May (with maybe a couple of mucky races in March or April for the masochists
> among us). I also think that the organizers of Bear Springs trap could have
> done a bit more to communicate the conditions up there. That said, I took it
> upon myself to check weather reports for the area and then made the decision
> to attend the race for myself. I went expecting snow and took my cold/wet
> weather gear. I was expecting 2.5 hours of cyclocross.
>
>
>
> Brian J.
>
>
>
>
>
> * * *
>
> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
>
>
>
> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> OBRA mailing list
>
> obra@list.obra.org
>
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> w Roman">_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org >
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage. Check it out.
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
>


THOR Man

2009-04-28

Thats funny.

But seriously. STOP THE WHINING!!! Is this a email list full of grown adults or 8 yr olds? Its getting hard to tell these days. Seems like every day, every little thing, whine and complain. Are you bored, like to hear yourself talk, a drama queen or what? What happened to just racing your bike for the kicks and shutting up. Why the drama?

Keep it up though. If i was a promoter reading all this, I would give you all the finger. Why would anyone want to put on a race that requires pouring their heart and sole into for such ungrateful pre-madonas? And the threaten to sue. ARE YOU TRYING TO RUIN RACING IN OREGON ALL TOGEHTER?

Cycling is a sport of you and you bike versus mother nature and her forces. Who ever can endure it the best, wins. End of story. Good thing the uci pros dont whine like you all, or the sport all together may just end. Ive raced in a blizzard at national champs, other races have included snow, hail, 30-40 mph wind, 106 degree heat, humidity, dryness, monsoons, swamps, through cattle pastures dodging animals, it happens. If you cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Like a previous email stated, take up golf, of go play a 5yr old basketball, or soe a scarf.

So, in conclusion, if you dont like the race dont show. And if you do race, man up and shut up.

THOR ALMIGHTY

Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 10:42:47 -0700
From: RickCJohnson1@gmail.com
To: dgrab2002@yahoo.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing

That's funny! I think I'll try it when I go out for lunch today -

"Bring me my food and after I'm done eating it I'll decide if I'm
satisfied enough to pay you"

Or maybe do some bike shopping -

"I'll take this bike for a few months and if I like it I'll come back
and pay you"

I'm sure the business' will understand completely and happily agree...

Rick Johnson
Bend, Oregon

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-- Benjamin Franklin

D Grab wrote:





Personally, I think public ridicule of the very small
handful of weak, character-deficient individuals (especially if they
are "elite/pro" racers) is a far more effective and entertaining
approach.

Of course if we were interested in a more proactive tack,
perhaps we can ask the promoter's if they would be willing to allow
racers to participate "on spec" as it were. If you race and like the
course and/or do well, then you pay the race fees. If the course does
not suit your fancy or you fail to achieve the result you believe you
deserve, then you do not have to pay. Seems completely reasonable
doesn't it?

--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Brian Mitchell
wrote:


From:
Brian Mitchell

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing

To: "bengelen@comcast.net"

Cc: "obra@list.obra.org"

Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 10:04 AM


Hmm, kind of like a "blacklist of un-OBRA-ites"of
sorts?!
Sen. McCarthy would be so proud. . .


On Apr 28, 2009, at 12:32 PM, "Brian Engelen" wrote:





I think
that anyone who is likely to sue should be 86’ed from our events. And
some of those people have shown themselves here. It is just poor
business to let them continue to put our events at risk.



“We reserve
the right to refuse service to anyone”




Brian E






From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Ben Fischler

Sent: Tuesday,
April 28, 2009 9:15 AM

To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com

Cc: OBRA list
list; Brian Johnson

Subject: Re: [
OBRA Chat ] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing




MTB racing and riding is an adventure sport.
Part of the sport is being ready for anything, including snow. I've
raced in conditions that were "too hot" and "too cold" for comfort, and
some of those races were in my early teens. If all those races had
been cancelled due to tender legal feelings then I would have missed
some of the best rides and best experiences of my life.





Sueing
your way out of a lousy race experience does nothing for anyone.


* mobile *

- ben.fischler@gmail.com
-


- bfischler@laika.com
-


On Apr 28, 2009, at 8:46 AM, scott hill
wrote:








this is the same crap that
killed bike racing in texas for several years. if you don't like tough
conditions then don't mountain bike, or wait till summer. nobody made
you race, you drove there on your own and could probably see the snow
when you got out of your car. i have done some mtb races that you had
to run 90% of the course because of mud, but you know what RACERS RACE
their bike and have fun doing it. if you don't like it take up golf.





scott

--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Brian Johnson

wrote:


From:
Brian Johnson

Subject: [ OBRA Chat ] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing

To: obra@list.obra.org

Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 11:33 PM




Message: 3




Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009
19:23:58 +0000


From: Evan Plews


Subject: Re: [ OBRA Chat ] up
front--BS!




I must
weigh in... this was supreme rip-off.








A "supreme rip off"? The tone
of your message is so extreme it's baffling!






The
bigger picture is the loss for Oregon racing. Why?





***SNIP***





If SkiBowl will not issue
refunds, I would like some of our attorney friends to weight in with
the possibility of pursuing a collective claim through small claims
court. I personally will pay any court costs to see justice served.
Until promoters (even me) are held accountable, we ALL will suffer and
lose members and events!




I think that hostile attitudes
and whispers of litigation pose more of a threat to Oregon racing than
early season races with snow on the ground. I imagine that the threat
of litigation (or the mere involvement of "attorney friends") is
extremely off-putting and pose yet another unpleasant hurdle to staging
a race event.














Best Regards,







Evan Plews




To be fair, I'll have to say
that I wish the MTB racing season started in May (with maybe a couple
of mucky races in March or April for the masochists among us). I also
think that the organizers of Bear Springs trap could have done a bit
more to communicate the conditions up there. That said, I took it upon
myself to check weather reports for the area and then made the decision
to attend the race for myself. I went expecting snow and took my
cold/wet weather gear. I was expecting 2.5 hours of cyclocross.





Brian J.








* * *



My
father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"





http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com







_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org









_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


w Roman">_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org >

_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org



_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org






_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009


Rick Johnson

2009-04-28

That's funny! I think I'll try it when I go out for lunch today -

"Bring me my food and after I'm done eating it I'll decide if I'm
satisfied enough to pay you"



Or maybe do some bike shopping -

"I'll take this bike for a few months and if I like it I'll come back
and pay you"



I'm sure the business' will understand completely and happily agree...



Rick Johnson

Bend, Oregon

"We must, indeed, all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately."
-- Benjamin Franklin






D Grab wrote:





Personally, I think public ridicule of the very small
handful of weak, character-deficient individuals (especially if they
are "elite/pro" racers) is a far more effective and entertaining
approach.

 

Of course if we were interested in a more proactive tack,
perhaps we can ask the promoter's if they would be willing to allow
racers to participate "on spec" as it were.  If you race and like the
course and/or do well, then you pay the race fees.  If the course does
not suit your fancy or you fail to achieve the result you believe you
deserve, then you do not have to pay.  Seems completely reasonable
doesn't it?



--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Brian Mitchell <baldboy247@gmail.com>
wrote:


From:
Brian Mitchell <baldboy247@gmail.com>

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing

To: "bengelen@comcast.net" <bengelen@comcast.net>

Cc: "obra@list.obra.org" <obra@list.obra.org>

Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 10:04 AM




Hmm, kind of like a "blacklist of un-OBRA-ites"of
sorts?!  

Sen. McCarthy would be so proud. . .









On Apr 28, 2009, at 12:32 PM, "Brian Engelen" <bengelen@comcast.net> wrote:







I think
that anyone who is likely to sue should be 86’ed from our events.  And
some of those people have shown themselves here.  It is just poor
business to let them continue to put our events at risk.



 



“We reserve
the right to refuse service to anyone” 




 


Brian E


 






From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Ben Fischler

Sent: Tuesday,
April 28, 2009 9:15 AM

To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com

Cc: OBRA list
list; Brian Johnson

Subject: Re: [
OBRA Chat ] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing



 



MTB racing and riding is an adventure sport.
 Part of the sport is being ready for anything, including snow.  I've
raced in conditions that were "too hot" and "too cold" for comfort, and
some of those races were in my early teens.  If all those races had
been cancelled due to tender legal feelings then I would have missed
some of the best rides and best experiences of my life.




 




Sueing
your way out of a lousy race experience does nothing for anyone.




* mobile *



- ben.fischler@gmail.com
-






On Apr 28, 2009, at 8:46 AM, scott hill <halfwheelhill@yahoo.com>
wrote:










this is the same crap that
killed bike racing in texas for several years. if you don't like tough
conditions then don't mountain bike, or wait till summer. nobody made
you race, you drove there on your own and could probably see the snow
when you got out of your car. i have done some mtb races that you had
to run 90% of the course because of mud, but you know what RACERS RACE
their bike and have fun doing it. if you don't like it take up golf.




 




scott



--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Brian Johnson
<brian.p.johnson@gmail.com>

wrote:




From:
Brian Johnson <brian.p.johnson@gmail.com>

Subject: [ OBRA Chat ] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing

To: obra@list.obra.org

Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 11:33 PM





Message: 3






Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009
19:23:58 +0000




From: Evan Plews <plewse@hotmail.com>




Subject: Re: [ OBRA Chat ] up
front--BS!










I must
weigh in... this was supreme rip-off. 




 




 




A "supreme rip off"? The tone
of your message is so extreme it's baffling! 




 





The
bigger picture is the loss for Oregon racing. Why?




 




***SNIP***










If SkiBowl will not issue
refunds, I would like some of our attorney friends to weight in with
the possibility of pursuing a collective claim through small claims
court. I personally will pay any court costs to see justice served.
Until promoters (even me) are held accountable, we ALL will suffer and
lose members and events!




 



I think that hostile attitudes
and whispers of litigation pose more of a  threat to Oregon racing than
early season races with snow on the ground. I imagine that the threat
of litigation (or the mere involvement of "attorney friends") is
extremely off-putting and pose yet another unpleasant hurdle to staging
a race event.



 






 








Best Regards,






 




Evan Plews




 



To be fair, I'll have to say
that I wish the MTB racing season started in May (with maybe a couple
of mucky races in March or April for the masochists among us). I also
think that the organizers of Bear Springs trap could have done a bit
more to communicate the conditions up there. That said, I took it upon
myself to check weather reports for the area and then made the decision
to attend the race for myself. I went expecting snow and took my
cold/wet weather gear. I was expecting 2.5 hours of cyclocross.



 




Brian J.




 



 




* * *





My
father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"




 





 



 


 


_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org





 






_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org




w Roman">_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>



_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list

obra@list.obra.org

http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra

Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org



_______________________________________________

OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org










_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


D Grab

2009-04-28

Personally, I think public ridicule of the very small handful of weak, character-deficient individuals (especially if they are "elite/pro" racers) is a far more effective and entertaining approach.
 
Of course if we were interested in a more proactive tack, perhaps we can ask the promoter's if they would be willing to allow racers to participate "on spec" as it were.  If you race and like the course and/or do well, then you pay the race fees.  If the course does not suit your fancy or you fail to achieve the result you believe you deserve, then you do not have to pay.  Seems completely reasonable doesn't it?

--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Brian Mitchell wrote:

From: Brian Mitchell
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
To: "bengelen@comcast.net"
Cc: "obra@list.obra.org"
Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 10:04 AM

Hmm, kind of like a "blacklist of un-OBRA-ites"of sorts?!  
Sen. McCarthy would be so proud. . .

On Apr 28, 2009, at 12:32 PM, "Brian Engelen" wrote:

I think that anyone who is likely to sue should be 86’ed from our events.  And some of those people have shown themselves here.  It is just poor business to let them continue to put our events at risk.
 
“We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone” 
 
Brian E
 

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Ben Fischler
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:15 AM
To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
Cc: OBRA list list; Brian Johnson
Subject: Re: [ OBRA Chat ] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
 

MTB racing and riding is an adventure sport.  Part of the sport is being ready for anything, including snow.  I've raced in conditions that were "too hot" and "too cold" for comfort, and some of those races were in my early teens.  If all those races had been cancelled due to tender legal feelings then I would have missed some of the best rides and best experiences of my life.

 

Sueing your way out of a lousy race experience does nothing for anyone.

* mobile *
- ben.fischler@gmail.com -

- bfischler@laika.com -

On Apr 28, 2009, at 8:46 AM, scott hill wrote:

this is the same crap that killed bike racing in texas for several years. if you don't like tough conditions then don't mountain bike, or wait till summer. nobody made you race, you drove there on your own and could probably see the snow when you got out of your car. i have done some mtb races that you had to run 90% of the course because of mud, but you know what RACERS RACE their bike and have fun doing it. if you don't like it take up golf.

 

scott

--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Brian Johnson wrote:

From: Brian Johnson
Subject: [ OBRA Chat ] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 11:33 PM

Message: 3

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:23:58 +0000

From: Evan Plews

Subject: Re: [ OBRA Chat ] up front--BS!

I must weigh in... this was supreme rip-off. 

 

 

A "supreme rip off"? The tone of your message is so extreme it's baffling! 

 

The bigger picture is the loss for Oregon racing. Why?

 
***SNIP***

If SkiBowl will not issue refunds, I would like some of our attorney friends to weight in with the possibility of pursuing a collective claim through small claims court. I personally will pay any court costs to see justice served. Until promoters (even me) are held accountable, we ALL will suffer and lose members and events!

 
I think that hostile attitudes and whispers of litigation pose more of a  threat to Oregon racing than early season races with snow on the ground. I imagine that the threat of litigation (or the mere involvement of "attorney friends") is extremely off-putting and pose yet another unpleasant hurdle to staging a race event.

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Evan Plews

 
To be fair, I'll have to say that I wish the MTB racing season started in May (with maybe a couple of mucky races in March or April for the masochists among us). I also think that the organizers of Bear Springs trap could have done a bit more to communicate the conditions up there. That said, I took it upon myself to check weather reports for the area and then made the decision to attend the race for myself. I went expecting snow and took my cold/wet weather gear. I was expecting 2.5 hours of cyclocross.

 

Brian J.

 
 

* * *

My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"

 

http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com

 
 
 _______________________________________________OBRA mailing listobra@list.obra.orghttp://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obraUnsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
 

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.orgw Roman">_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Brian Mitchell

2009-04-28

Hmm, kind of like a "blacklist of un-OBRA-ites"of sorts?!
Sen. McCarthy would be so proud. . .

On Apr 28, 2009, at 12:32 PM, "Brian Engelen"
wrote:

> I think that anyone who is likely to sue should be 86’ed from our ev
> ents. And some of those people have shown themselves here. It is j
> ust poor business to let them continue to put our events at risk.
>
>
>
> “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone”
>
>
>
> Brian E
>
>
>
> From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org]
> On Behalf Of Ben Fischler
> Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:15 AM
> To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
> Cc: OBRA list list; Brian Johnson
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR
> racing
>
>
>
> MTB racing and riding is an adventure sport. Part of the sport is
> being ready for anything, including snow. I've raced in conditions
> that were "too hot" and "too cold" for comfort, and some of those
> races were in my early teens. If all those races had been cancelled
> due to tender legal feelings then I would have missed some of the
> best rides and best experiences of my life.
>
>
>
> Sueing your way out of a lousy race experience does nothing for
> anyone.
>
> * mobile *
>
> - ben.fischler@gmail.com -
>
> - bfischler@laika.com -
>
>
> On Apr 28, 2009, at 8:46 AM, scott hill
> wrote:
>
>> this is the same crap that killed bike racing in texas for several
>> years. if you don't like tough conditions then don't mountain bike,
>> or wait till summer. nobody made you race, you drove there on your
>> own and could probably see the snow when you got out of your car. i
>> have done some mtb races that you had to run 90% of the course
>> because of mud, but you know what RACERS RACE their bike and have
>> fun doing it. if you don't like it take up golf.
>>
>>
>>
>> scott
>>
>> --- On Mon, 4/27/09, Brian Johnson wrote:
>>
>> From: Brian Johnson
>> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
>> To: obra@list.obra.org
>> Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 11:33 PM
>>
>> Message: 3
>>
>> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:23:58 +0000
>>
>> From: Evan Plews
>>
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front--BS!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I must weigh in... this was supreme rip-off.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> A "supreme rip off"? The tone of your message is so extreme it's
>> baffling!
>>
>>
>>
>>> The bigger picture is the loss for Oregon racing. Why?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ***SNIP***
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> If SkiBowl will not issue refunds, I would like some of our
>> attorney friends to weight in with the possibility of pursuing a
>> collective claim through small claims court. I personally will pay
>> any court costs to see justice served. Until promoters (even me)
>> are held accountable, we ALL will suffer and lose members and events!
>>
>>
>>
>> I think that hostile attitudes and whispers of litigation pose more
>> of a threat to Oregon racing than early season races with snow on
>> the ground. I imagine that the threat of litigation (or the mere
>> involvement of "attorney friends") is extremely off-putting and
>> pose yet another unpleasant hurdle to staging a race event.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Evan Plews
>>>
>>
>>
>> To be fair, I'll have to say that I wish the MTB racing season
>> started in May (with maybe a couple of mucky races in March or
>> April for the masochists among us). I also think that the
>> organizers of Bear Springs trap could have done a bit more to
>> communicate the conditions up there. That said, I took it upon
>> myself to check weather reports for the area and then made the
>> decision to attend the race for myself. I went expecting snow and
>> took my cold/wet weather gear. I was expecting 2.5 hours of
>> cyclocross.
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian J.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * * *
>>
>> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
>>
>>
>>
>> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OBRA mailing list
>> obra@list.obra.org
>> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
>> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>>
> w Roman">_______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
> >
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Brian Engelen

2009-04-28

I think that anyone who is likely to sue should be 86'ed from our events.
And some of those people have shown themselves here. It is just poor
business to let them continue to put our events at risk.

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone"

Brian E

_____

From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org [mailto:obra-bounces@list.obra.org] On
Behalf Of Ben Fischler
Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 2009 9:15 AM
To: halfwheelhill@yahoo.com
Cc: OBRA list list; Brian Johnson
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing

MTB racing and riding is an adventure sport. Part of the sport is being
ready for anything, including snow. I've raced in conditions that were "too
hot" and "too cold" for comfort, and some of those races were in my early
teens. If all those races had been cancelled due to tender legal feelings
then I would have missed some of the best rides and best experiences of my
life.

Sueing your way out of a lousy race experience does nothing for anyone.

* mobile *

- ben.fischler@gmail.com -

- bfischler@laika.com -

On Apr 28, 2009, at 8:46 AM, scott hill wrote:

this is the same crap that killed bike racing in texas for several years. if
you don't like tough conditions then don't mountain bike, or wait till
summer. nobody made you race, you drove there on your own and could probably
see the snow when you got out of your car. i have done some mtb races that
you had to run 90% of the course because of mud, but you know what RACERS
RACE their bike and have fun doing it. if you don't like it take up golf.

scott

--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Brian Johnson wrote:

From: Brian Johnson
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 11:33 PM

Message: 3

Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:23:58 +0000

From: Evan Plews < plewse@hotmail.com>

Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front--BS!

I must weigh in... this was supreme rip-off.

A "supreme rip off"? The tone of your message is so extreme it's baffling!

The bigger picture is the loss for Oregon racing. Why?

***SNIP***

If SkiBowl will not issue refunds, I would like some of our attorney friends
to weight in with the possibility of pursuing a collective claim through
small claims court. I personally will pay any court costs to see justice
served. Until promoters (even me) are held accountable, we ALL will suffer
and lose members and events!

I think that hostile attitudes and whispers of litigation pose more of a
threat to Oregon racing than early season races with snow on the ground. I
imagine that the threat of litigation (or the mere involvement of "attorney
friends") is extremely off-putting and pose yet another unpleasant hurdle to
staging a race event.

Best Regards,

Evan Plews

To be fair, I'll have to say that I wish the MTB racing season started in
May (with maybe a couple of mucky races in March or April for the masochists
among us). I also think that the organizers of Bear Springs trap could have
done a bit more to communicate the conditions up there. That said, I took it
upon myself to check weather reports for the area and then made the decision
to attend the race for myself. I went expecting snow and took my cold/wet
weather gear. I was expecting 2.5 hours of cyclocross.

Brian J.

* * *

My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"

http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe:
obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Ben Fischler

2009-04-28

MTB racing and riding is an adventure sport. Part of the sport is
being ready for anything, including snow. I've raced in conditions
that were "too hot" and "too cold" for comfort, and some of those
races were in my early teens. If all those races had been cancelled
due to tender legal feelings then I would have missed some of the best
rides and best experiences of my life.

Sueing your way out of a lousy race experience does nothing for anyone.

* mobile *
- ben.fischler@gmail.com -
- bfischler@laika.com -

On Apr 28, 2009, at 8:46 AM, scott hill wrote:

> this is the same crap that killed bike racing in texas for several
> years. if you don't like tough conditions then don't mountain bike,
> or wait till summer. nobody made you race, you drove there on your
> own and could probably see the snow when you got out of your car. i
> have done some mtb races that you had to run 90% of the course
> because of mud, but you know what RACERS RACE their bike and have
> fun doing it. if you don't like it take up golf.
>
> scott
>
> --- On Mon, 4/27/09, Brian Johnson wrote:
> From: Brian Johnson
> Subject: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 11:33 PM
>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:23:58 +0000
>> From: Evan Plews
>> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front--BS!
>
>> I must weigh in... this was supreme rip-off.
>>
>
> A "supreme rip off"? The tone of your message is so extreme it's
> baffling!
>
>> The bigger picture is the loss for Oregon racing. Why?
>>
> ***SNIP***
>
>> If SkiBowl will not issue refunds, I would like some of our
>> attorney friends to weight in with the possibility of pursuing a
>> collective claim through small claims court. I personally will pay
>> any court costs to see justice served. Until promoters (even me)
>> are held accountable, we ALL will suffer and lose members and events!
>
> I think that hostile attitudes and whispers of litigation pose more
> of a threat to Oregon racing than early season races with snow on
> the ground. I imagine that the threat of litigation (or the mere
> involvement of "attorney friends") is extremely off-putting and pose
> yet another unpleasant hurdle to staging a race event.
>
>>
>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Evan Plews
>
> To be fair, I'll have to say that I wish the MTB racing season
> started in May (with maybe a couple of mucky races in March or April
> for the masochists among us). I also think that the organizers of
> Bear Springs trap could have done a bit more to communicate the
> conditions up there. That said, I took it upon myself to check
> weather reports for the area and then made the decision to attend
> the race for myself. I went expecting snow and took my cold/wet
> weather gear. I was expecting 2.5 hours of cyclocross.
>
> Brian J.
>
>
> * * *
> My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"
>
> http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> OBRA mailing list
> obra@list.obra.org
> http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
> Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


scott hill

2009-04-28

this is the same crap that killed bike racing in texas for several years. if you don't like tough conditions then don't mountain bike, or wait till summer. nobody made you race, you drove there on your own and could probably see the snow when you got out of your car. i have done some mtb races that you had to run 90% of the course because of mud, but you know what RACERS RACE their bike and have fun doing it. if you don't like it take up golf.
 
scott

--- On Mon, 4/27/09, Brian Johnson wrote:

From: Brian Johnson
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Taking BST to court can't be good for OR racing
To: obra@list.obra.org
Date: Monday, April 27, 2009, 11:33 PM

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:23:58 +0000
From: Evan Plews
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front--BS!

I must weigh in... this was supreme rip-off. 

A "supreme rip off"? The tone of your message is so extreme it's baffling! 

The bigger picture is the loss for Oregon racing. Why?

***SNIP***

If SkiBowl will not issue refunds, I would like some of our attorney friends to weight in with the possibility of pursuing a collective claim through small claims court. I personally will pay any court costs to see justice served. Until promoters (even me) are held accountable, we ALL will suffer and lose members and events!

I think that hostile attitudes and whispers of litigation pose more of a  threat to Oregon racing than early season races with snow on the ground. I imagine that the threat of litigation (or the mere involvement of "attorney friends") is extremely off-putting and pose yet another unpleasant hurdle to staging a race event.

Best Regards,

Evan Plews

To be fair, I'll have to say that I wish the MTB racing season started in May (with maybe a couple of mucky races in March or April for the masochists among us). I also think that the organizers of Bear Springs trap could have done a bit more to communicate the conditions up there. That said, I took it upon myself to check weather reports for the area and then made the decision to attend the race for myself. I went expecting snow and took my cold/wet weather gear. I was expecting 2.5 hours of cyclocross.

Brian J.

* * *
My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"

http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com

_______________________________________________
OBRA mailing list
obra@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra
Unsubscribe: obra-unsubscribe@list.obra.org


Brian Johnson

2009-04-27

> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:23:58 +0000
> From: Evan Plews
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] up front--BS!

> I must weigh in... this was supreme rip-off.
>

A "supreme rip off"? The tone of your message is so extreme it's
baffling!

> The bigger picture is the loss for Oregon racing. Why?
>
***SNIP***

> If SkiBowl will not issue refunds, I would like some of our
> attorney friends to weight in with the possibility of pursuing a
> collective claim through small claims court. I personally will pay
> any court costs to see justice served. Until promoters (even me)
> are held accountable, we ALL will suffer and lose members and events!

I think that hostile attitudes and whispers of litigation pose more
of a threat to Oregon racing than early season races with snow on
the ground. I imagine that the threat of litigation (or the mere
involvement of "attorney friends") is extremely off-putting and pose
yet another unpleasant hurdle to staging a race event.

>
> Best Regards,
>
> Evan Plews

To be fair, I'll have to say that I wish the MTB racing season
started in May (with maybe a couple of mucky races in March or April
for the masochists among us). I also think that the organizers of
Bear Springs trap could have done a bit more to communicate the
conditions up there. That said, I took it upon myself to check
weather reports for the area and then made the decision to attend the
race for myself. I went expecting snow and took my cold/wet weather
gear. I was expecting 2.5 hours of cyclocross.

Brian J.

* * *
My father asks : "Do you live here or ride bikes?"

http://liveorridebikes.blogspot.com