Here is a recent note that I sent to some people. I've added a couple pieces.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: T. Kenji Sugahara
Date: Wed, May 2, 2012 at 9:53 PM
Subject: Re: No women's field
Hey all!
Hope everyone is doing well.
As I was not at either of the mentioned races, I can not address any
specifics.
I do believe that we are all a community of racers and as a
community we should address inappropriate behavior. If I, as a racer,
see another racer behaving inappropriately, unsafely, or unsportsman
like, I'll bring it up to the woman. I suggest that those racing at
the crit or PIR could have addressed the situation immediately (maybe
they did). Do not wait for some other entitiy to address what you feel
is inappropriate. Coming from someone in the race will carry far more
weight than an official or team captain addressing it if they were
not there.
However, timing is important....I had a situation last year where a
new racer made a very bad, dangerous move at the end of a race. I,
unfortunately, with adrenalin pumping chased her down and yelled at
her. This was unacceptable, and I appologized later....it would have
been better for all had I settled down and calmed my nerves before
addressing the situation. So please use some restraint if the person
really needs to be alerted to their error in riding, sometimes it is
best to let a little time pass. BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif;font-size:12px; }
On Tue 09/05/12 15:48 , Judy.Richardson.DMS01@Alum.Dartmouth.ORG
(Judy Richardson DMS01) sent:
Candi,
Speaking as a Sorella Forte board member, if these women are racing
with
established kits, I propose their team captains be notified. I
cannot speak for
other teams, but as far as Sorellas go, we do appreciate the
opportunity to
handle these issues within the team. We have an informal, yet
carefully
detailed mentoring process by which new to racers and even seasoned
ones
are reminded about appropriate and sportsmanlike conduct while
racing in
the team kit. I am sure that, if given a moment to reflect, women
representing other teams would hate to loose financial support /
sponsors
because of their conduct wearing sponsor logos.
If the offenders do not belong to a team, perhaps we can institute a
peer
mentoring process to support and engender a spirit of sportsmanship
between each other - specifically through friends or some of our
volunteer
coaches / senior racers (? Kendra/ Kori?) Just my two cents.
thanks
Judy
wrote ---
So here is a different topic for you. The title I wanted to put
forth was
'Mouthy women" but I held back
At the IceBreaker crit and at last night Monday's PIR there were two
incidences of a women mouthing off while riding. At the crit the
loudmouth
was instructing and berating other riders for their tactics. At PIR
the
women was yelling at a masters men rider and informing him
incorrectly
about
the rules. If I had been an official at either of these events I
would have
enacted sanctions against both riders. The very least would have
been
'unsportsmanlike" behavior and I would have relegated or dq'd the
rider from
Monday PIR. To those two women, beware, that if I am the official
you will
not get off so lightly.
In the past I had always felt that the women's field was more
cooperative
and supportive, these last two races have made me rethink that. That
makes
me unhappy.
Candi
_____
From:
[] On Behalf Of Leibowitz, Flo
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 9:20 PM
To: Kenji Sugahara; obra women
Subject: Re: [OBRA Women] Women's Racing
There hasn't been much discussion about this on the forum so far.
Hopefully,
people are at least writing to Kenji individually.
I was a little surprised to see this message, and especially to hear
the
apparent urgency in it. I had honestly been under the impression
that last
year, perhaps because of the Cat 4 series, a great number of new Cat
4
women
were racing, some quite fast, although new (ah, youth !!) Because of
this,
I had assumed that after last summer, a large number of 4's had
upgraded on
points and we had grown a rather large new crop of Cat 3's. Kenji's
message
suggests that didn't happen. Kenji, is that the case?
_____
From: on behalf of Kenji Sugahara
Sent: Fri 5/8/2009 4:10 PM
To: obra women
Subject: [OBRA Women] Women's Racing
I would like to get some input to the following idea:
Instead of having 1/2/3 and 4 races for the road/crits, splitting up
the women as follows- 1/2/3 and 3/4.
(Note this change would not have any impact on MTB, CCX, Track nor
TT's- this is for road and crit events only)
The eventual goal is to increase the number of Cat 3 women (and 1/2
women) to be able to run them as separate fields while making it
economically desirable for promoters.
Rationale:
In our current system, there are women who are forced to upgrade to
Cat 3, who aren't really ready for the jump to the 1/2/3 field.
There
is no intermediate step as there is with the men. With men, racers
start in Cat 4/5, then grow into Cat 3 before they can leap to the
P/
1/2 field.
This lack of an intermediate step leads to scenarios where newly
upgraded women racers are immediately shelled and are left to race
by
themselves. There is too big of a disparity between the 4's and the
1/2/3's. (distance and intensity) There are also numerous Cat 3's
who do not have time to train at the level to stay with the 1/2
racers
(jobs/family etc). Many times, these 3 racers are left riding solo-
race in, race out. The end result is that we have a high rate of
attrition of Cat 3 females as there is no incentive to continue road
racing- why pay money when they can just ride out somewhere by
themselves.
Until we can race the Cat 3 women as a separate field, a 1/2/3, 3/4
field split would provide an opportunity for the 3's to race with
either the 1/2's or with the 4's. This would give women some more
time to grow as a rider before making the jump to race with the
1/2's.
The problems are as follows:
Women would receive Cat 3 BAR points for the 3/4 races. However,
we'd
ask that promoters run Cat 4 women separately for the Cat 4 women's
series races. In those instances, races would be run as 1/2/3, 4
races. Thus, for those races, Cat 4 women would receive Cat 4 women
BAR points.
The other issue is of Cat 3 women who decide they want to dominate
the
3/4 field. In those instances, we would carefully monitor the field
to make sure that any dominant individual would be made to race the
1/2/3 field.
Additional solutions:
We are also working on a mentoring program that would pair Cat 3/4
women looking to upgrade with an experienced Cat 1/2 racer. Many
teams already do this on an ad-hoc basis, but this program would
help
those who do not have the structure to deal with women specific
racing.
For 2010, we are looking to have a Cat 3 Women's Series as they do
up
in Washington. This would hopefully serve as an incentive to have
more Cat 3 women out to race.
Finally- we are looking at allowing instructional courses to count
toward upgrades from 4->3 (Women) and 5->4 (Men).
Any feedback is welcome!
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Women mailing list
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women [6]
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Women mailing list
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women [8]
--- End of quote ---
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Women mailing list
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women [10]
Links:
------
[6]
http://webmail.uslogin.net/parse.php?redirect=http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
[8]
http://webmail.uslogin.net/parse.php?redirect=http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
[10]
http://webmail.uslogin.net/parse.php?redirect=http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
Candi,
Speaking as a Sorella Forte board member, if these women are racing with
established kits, I propose their team captains be notified. I cannot speak for
other teams, but as far as Sorellas go, we do appreciate the opportunity to
handle these issues within the team. We have an informal, yet carefully
detailed mentoring process by which new to racers and even seasoned ones
are reminded about appropriate and sportsmanlike conduct while racing in
the team kit. I am sure that, if given a moment to reflect, women
representing other teams would hate to loose financial support / sponsors
because of their conduct wearing sponsor logos.
If the offenders do not belong to a team, perhaps we can institute a peer
mentoring process to support and engender a spirit of sportsmanship
between each other - specifically through friends or some of our volunteer
coaches / senior racers (? Kendra/ Kori?) Just my two cents.
thanks
Judy
---cmurray@obra.org wrote ---
So here is a different topic for you. The title I wanted to put forth was
'Mouthy women" but I held back
At the IceBreaker crit and at last night Monday's PIR there were two
incidences of a women mouthing off while riding. At the crit the loudmouth
was instructing and berating other riders for their tactics. At PIR the
women was yelling at a masters men rider and informing him incorrectly
about
the rules. If I had been an official at either of these events I would have
enacted sanctions against both riders. The very least would have been
'unsportsmanlike" behavior and I would have relegated or dq'd the rider from
Monday PIR. To those two women, beware, that if I am the official you will
not get off so lightly.
In the past I had always felt that the women's field was more cooperative
and supportive, these last two races have made me rethink that. That makes
me unhappy.
Candi
_____
From: obra_women-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra_women-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Leibowitz, Flo
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 9:20 PM
To: Kenji Sugahara; obra women
Subject: Re: [OBRA Women] Women's Racing
There hasn't been much discussion about this on the forum so far. Hopefully,
people are at least writing to Kenji individually.
I was a little surprised to see this message, and especially to hear the
apparent urgency in it. I had honestly been under the impression that last
year, perhaps because of the Cat 4 series, a great number of new Cat 4
women
were racing, some quite fast, although new (ah, youth !!) Because of this,
I had assumed that after last summer, a large number of 4's had upgraded on
points and we had grown a rather large new crop of Cat 3's. Kenji's message
suggests that didn't happen. Kenji, is that the case?
_____
From: obra_women-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Kenji Sugahara
Sent: Fri 5/8/2009 4:10 PM
To: obra women
Subject: [OBRA Women] Women's Racing
I would like to get some input to the following idea:
Instead of having 1/2/3 and 4 races for the road/crits, splitting up
the women as follows- 1/2/3 and 3/4.
(Note this change would not have any impact on MTB, CCX, Track nor
TT's- this is for road and crit events only)
The eventual goal is to increase the number of Cat 3 women (and 1/2
women) to be able to run them as separate fields while making it
economically desirable for promoters.
Rationale:
In our current system, there are women who are forced to upgrade to
Cat 3, who aren't really ready for the jump to the 1/2/3 field. There
is no intermediate step as there is with the men. With men, racers
start in Cat 4/5, then grow into Cat 3 before they can leap to the P/
1/2 field.
This lack of an intermediate step leads to scenarios where newly
upgraded women racers are immediately shelled and are left to race by
themselves. There is too big of a disparity between the 4's and the
1/2/3's. (distance and intensity) There are also numerous Cat 3's
who do not have time to train at the level to stay with the 1/2 racers
(jobs/family etc). Many times, these 3 racers are left riding solo-
race in, race out. The end result is that we have a high rate of
attrition of Cat 3 females as there is no incentive to continue road
racing- why pay money when they can just ride out somewhere by
themselves.
Until we can race the Cat 3 women as a separate field, a 1/2/3, 3/4
field split would provide an opportunity for the 3's to race with
either the 1/2's or with the 4's. This would give women some more
time to grow as a rider before making the jump to race with the 1/2's.
The problems are as follows:
Women would receive Cat 3 BAR points for the 3/4 races. However, we'd
ask that promoters run Cat 4 women separately for the Cat 4 women's
series races. In those instances, races would be run as 1/2/3, 4
races. Thus, for those races, Cat 4 women would receive Cat 4 women
BAR points.
The other issue is of Cat 3 women who decide they want to dominate the
3/4 field. In those instances, we would carefully monitor the field
to make sure that any dominant individual would be made to race the
1/2/3 field.
Additional solutions:
We are also working on a mentoring program that would pair Cat 3/4
women looking to upgrade with an experienced Cat 1/2 racer. Many
teams already do this on an ad-hoc basis, but this program would help
those who do not have the structure to deal with women specific racing.
For 2010, we are looking to have a Cat 3 Women's Series as they do up
in Washington. This would hopefully serve as an incentive to have
more Cat 3 women out to race.
Finally- we are looking at allowing instructional courses to count
toward upgrades from 4->3 (Women) and 5->4 (Men).
Any feedback is welcome!
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Women mailing list
OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Women mailing list
OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
--- End of quote ---
So here is a different topic for you. The title I wanted to put forth was
'Mouthy women" but I held back
At the IceBreaker crit and at last night Monday's PIR there were two
incidences of a women mouthing off while riding. At the crit the loudmouth
was instructing and berating other riders for their tactics. At PIR the
women was yelling at a masters men rider and informing him incorrectly about
the rules. If I had been an official at either of these events I would have
enacted sanctions against both riders. The very least would have been
'unsportsmanlike" behavior and I would have relegated or dq'd the rider from
Monday PIR. To those two women, beware, that if I am the official you will
not get off so lightly.
In the past I had always felt that the women's field was more cooperative
and supportive, these last two races have made me rethink that. That makes
me unhappy.
Candi
_____
From: obra_women-bounces@list.obra.org
[mailto:obra_women-bounces@list.obra.org] On Behalf Of Leibowitz, Flo
Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 9:20 PM
To: Kenji Sugahara; obra women
Subject: Re: [OBRA Women] Women's Racing
There hasn't been much discussion about this on the forum so far. Hopefully,
people are at least writing to Kenji individually.
I was a little surprised to see this message, and especially to hear the
apparent urgency in it. I had honestly been under the impression that last
year, perhaps because of the Cat 4 series, a great number of new Cat 4 women
were racing, some quite fast, although new (ah, youth !!) Because of this,
I had assumed that after last summer, a large number of 4's had upgraded on
points and we had grown a rather large new crop of Cat 3's. Kenji's message
suggests that didn't happen. Kenji, is that the case?
_____
From: obra_women-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Kenji Sugahara
Sent: Fri 5/8/2009 4:10 PM
To: obra women
Subject: [OBRA Women] Women's Racing
I would like to get some input to the following idea:
Instead of having 1/2/3 and 4 races for the road/crits, splitting up
the women as follows- 1/2/3 and 3/4.
(Note this change would not have any impact on MTB, CCX, Track nor
TT's- this is for road and crit events only)
The eventual goal is to increase the number of Cat 3 women (and 1/2
women) to be able to run them as separate fields while making it
economically desirable for promoters.
Rationale:
In our current system, there are women who are forced to upgrade to
Cat 3, who aren't really ready for the jump to the 1/2/3 field. There
is no intermediate step as there is with the men. With men, racers
start in Cat 4/5, then grow into Cat 3 before they can leap to the P/
1/2 field.
This lack of an intermediate step leads to scenarios where newly
upgraded women racers are immediately shelled and are left to race by
themselves. There is too big of a disparity between the 4's and the
1/2/3's. (distance and intensity) There are also numerous Cat 3's
who do not have time to train at the level to stay with the 1/2 racers
(jobs/family etc). Many times, these 3 racers are left riding solo-
race in, race out. The end result is that we have a high rate of
attrition of Cat 3 females as there is no incentive to continue road
racing- why pay money when they can just ride out somewhere by
themselves.
Until we can race the Cat 3 women as a separate field, a 1/2/3, 3/4
field split would provide an opportunity for the 3's to race with
either the 1/2's or with the 4's. This would give women some more
time to grow as a rider before making the jump to race with the 1/2's.
The problems are as follows:
Women would receive Cat 3 BAR points for the 3/4 races. However, we'd
ask that promoters run Cat 4 women separately for the Cat 4 women's
series races. In those instances, races would be run as 1/2/3, 4
races. Thus, for those races, Cat 4 women would receive Cat 4 women
BAR points.
The other issue is of Cat 3 women who decide they want to dominate the
3/4 field. In those instances, we would carefully monitor the field
to make sure that any dominant individual would be made to race the
1/2/3 field.
Additional solutions:
We are also working on a mentoring program that would pair Cat 3/4
women looking to upgrade with an experienced Cat 1/2 racer. Many
teams already do this on an ad-hoc basis, but this program would help
those who do not have the structure to deal with women specific racing.
For 2010, we are looking to have a Cat 3 Women's Series as they do up
in Washington. This would hopefully serve as an incentive to have
more Cat 3 women out to race.
Finally- we are looking at allowing instructional courses to count
toward upgrades from 4->3 (Women) and 5->4 (Men).
Any feedback is welcome!
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Women mailing list
OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
There hasn't been much discussion about this on the forum so far. Hopefully, people are at least writing to Kenji individually.
I was a little surprised to see this message, and especially to hear the apparent urgency in it. I had honestly been under the impression that last year, perhaps because of the Cat 4 series, a great number of new Cat 4 women were racing, some quite fast, although new (ah, youth !!) Because of this, I had assumed that after last summer, a large number of 4's had upgraded on points and we had grown a rather large new crop of Cat 3's. Kenji's message suggests that didn't happen. Kenji, is that the case?
________________________________
From: obra_women-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Kenji Sugahara
Sent: Fri 5/8/2009 4:10 PM
To: obra women
Subject: [OBRA Women] Women's Racing
I would like to get some input to the following idea:
Instead of having 1/2/3 and 4 races for the road/crits, splitting up
the women as follows- 1/2/3 and 3/4.
(Note this change would not have any impact on MTB, CCX, Track nor
TT's- this is for road and crit events only)
The eventual goal is to increase the number of Cat 3 women (and 1/2
women) to be able to run them as separate fields while making it
economically desirable for promoters.
Rationale:
In our current system, there are women who are forced to upgrade to
Cat 3, who aren't really ready for the jump to the 1/2/3 field. There
is no intermediate step as there is with the men. With men, racers
start in Cat 4/5, then grow into Cat 3 before they can leap to the P/
1/2 field.
This lack of an intermediate step leads to scenarios where newly
upgraded women racers are immediately shelled and are left to race by
themselves. There is too big of a disparity between the 4's and the
1/2/3's. (distance and intensity) There are also numerous Cat 3's
who do not have time to train at the level to stay with the 1/2 racers
(jobs/family etc). Many times, these 3 racers are left riding solo-
race in, race out. The end result is that we have a high rate of
attrition of Cat 3 females as there is no incentive to continue road
racing- why pay money when they can just ride out somewhere by
themselves.
Until we can race the Cat 3 women as a separate field, a 1/2/3, 3/4
field split would provide an opportunity for the 3's to race with
either the 1/2's or with the 4's. This would give women some more
time to grow as a rider before making the jump to race with the 1/2's.
The problems are as follows:
Women would receive Cat 3 BAR points for the 3/4 races. However, we'd
ask that promoters run Cat 4 women separately for the Cat 4 women's
series races. In those instances, races would be run as 1/2/3, 4
races. Thus, for those races, Cat 4 women would receive Cat 4 women
BAR points.
The other issue is of Cat 3 women who decide they want to dominate the
3/4 field. In those instances, we would carefully monitor the field
to make sure that any dominant individual would be made to race the
1/2/3 field.
Additional solutions:
We are also working on a mentoring program that would pair Cat 3/4
women looking to upgrade with an experienced Cat 1/2 racer. Many
teams already do this on an ad-hoc basis, but this program would help
those who do not have the structure to deal with women specific racing.
For 2010, we are looking to have a Cat 3 Women's Series as they do up
in Washington. This would hopefully serve as an incentive to have
more Cat 3 women out to race.
Finally- we are looking at allowing instructional courses to count
toward upgrades from 4->3 (Women) and 5->4 (Men).
Any feedback is welcome!
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
_______________________________________________
OBRA_Women mailing list
OBRA_Women@list.obra.org
http://list.obra.org/mailman/listinfo/obra_women
I would like to get some input to the following idea:
Instead of having 1/2/3 and 4 races for the road/crits, splitting up
the women as follows- 1/2/3 and 3/4.
(Note this change would not have any impact on MTB, CCX, Track nor
TT's- this is for road and crit events only)
The eventual goal is to increase the number of Cat 3 women (and 1/2
women) to be able to run them as separate fields while making it
economically desirable for promoters.
Rationale:
In our current system, there are women who are forced to upgrade to
Cat 3, who aren't really ready for the jump to the 1/2/3 field. There
is no intermediate step as there is with the men. With men, racers
start in Cat 4/5, then grow into Cat 3 before they can leap to the P/
1/2 field.
This lack of an intermediate step leads to scenarios where newly
upgraded women racers are immediately shelled and are left to race by
themselves. There is too big of a disparity between the 4's and the
1/2/3's. (distance and intensity) There are also numerous Cat 3's
who do not have time to train at the level to stay with the 1/2 racers
(jobs/family etc). Many times, these 3 racers are left riding solo-
race in, race out. The end result is that we have a high rate of
attrition of Cat 3 females as there is no incentive to continue road
racing- why pay money when they can just ride out somewhere by
themselves.
Until we can race the Cat 3 women as a separate field, a 1/2/3, 3/4
field split would provide an opportunity for the 3's to race with
either the 1/2's or with the 4's. This would give women some more
time to grow as a rider before making the jump to race with the 1/2's.
The problems are as follows:
Women would receive Cat 3 BAR points for the 3/4 races. However, we'd
ask that promoters run Cat 4 women separately for the Cat 4 women's
series races. In those instances, races would be run as 1/2/3, 4
races. Thus, for those races, Cat 4 women would receive Cat 4 women
BAR points.
The other issue is of Cat 3 women who decide they want to dominate the
3/4 field. In those instances, we would carefully monitor the field
to make sure that any dominant individual would be made to race the
1/2/3 field.
Additional solutions:
We are also working on a mentoring program that would pair Cat 3/4
women looking to upgrade with an experienced Cat 1/2 racer. Many
teams already do this on an ad-hoc basis, but this program would help
those who do not have the structure to deal with women specific racing.
For 2010, we are looking to have a Cat 3 Women's Series as they do up
in Washington. This would hopefully serve as an incentive to have
more Cat 3 women out to race.
Finally- we are looking at allowing instructional courses to count
toward upgrades from 4->3 (Women) and 5->4 (Men).
Any feedback is welcome!
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
Kenji Sugahara
Executive Director
Oregon Bicycle Racing Association
503-302-4935
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